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Idea For A Cache


whodatdoc1975

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Hello Folks,

 

I'm wanting to place a cache that would contain a CD of "favourite music" the idea being that people find the cache, and swap the existing CD with one of their own that features a mix of music that reflects their taste. It would be like swapping mixtapes back in the day, except you're burning a "mix disc"! Would this be a suitable idea? Doe anyone have suggestions to improve the idea?

 

All input is valued!

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Hello Folks,

 

I'm wanting to place a cache that would contain a CD of "favourite music" the idea being that people find the cache, and swap the existing CD with one of their own that features a mix of music that reflects their taste. It would be like swapping mixtapes back in the day, except you're burning a "mix disc"! Would this be a suitable idea? Doe anyone have suggestions to improve the idea?

 

All input is valued!

This has been talked about MANY times, copyright infringement, and piracy come to mind as reasons NOT to.

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Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

Im assuming the 'Rev' in your name is short for 'Reverend'? If that is the case, why would you publically support music piracy, aka: theft?

 

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I agree that it's not a good idea and I would imagine such an idea would not get published because of the clear violation of the law.

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I would imagine that as long as swapping of music is not a requirement of logging a find on the cache it should not keep it from being published. It could just be a regular cache with a suggested trading theme. I don't think that a couple people trading mix cds is quite the problem it is made out to be here. Now if the CO made a hundred copies of an album and distributed them in the cache then I would see a problem with that. It does not seem much different to me than stamping Where's George on a dollar bill and trading those in a cache and that seems a widely accepted practice. I have even seen caches encouraging creating and swapping those.

 

I hardly think that something on the scale of a single cache will bring down the wrath of the copyright gods. I doubt that the SWAT team will dive out of the bushes to arrest anyone that takes a cd from the cache. Provided the cache is not on private property then the container and all contents are technically considered abandoned property and no agency will take the trouble to try to establish a chain of custody on items considered abandoned, that are constantly changing hands.

 

That is why I don't consider it a bad idea.

 

It might also be of note that I am not familiar with any laws regarding this issue in the UK and I do not know Groundspeak's take on it. I am just saying I have never noticed anything in the guidelines that prohibits this practice practice and trust in the reviewers to make the decision if and when the time comes. After all they are the only ones whose 2 cents really matters.

 

Might I suggest that the OP emails his local reviewer and asks...

 

- Rev Mike

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This same topic was raised just a few days ago in this thread: Music Cache

 

This would be a clear violation of copyright, as is the "Operation Disc Drop" also mentioned above.

 

In the US, damages could be between $750 and $150,000, depending on how good your lawyer is, and how good their lawyer is. This would be for each copyright violation.

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I hardly think that something on the scale of a single cache will bring down the wrath of the copyright gods. I doubt that the SWAT team will dive out of the bushes to arrest anyone that takes a cd from the cache. Provided the cache is not on private property then the container and all contents are technically considered abandoned property and no agency will take the trouble to try to establish a chain of custody on items considered abandoned, that are constantly changing hands.

 

That is why I don't consider it a bad idea.

 

- Rev Mike

 

So it's OK to do something illegal if you probably won't get caught? :)

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I hardly think that something on the scale of a single cache will bring down the wrath of the copyright gods. I doubt that the SWAT team will dive out of the bushes to arrest anyone that takes a cd from the cache. Provided the cache is not on private property then the container and all contents are technically considered abandoned property and no agency will take the trouble to try to establish a chain of custody on items considered abandoned, that are constantly changing hands.

 

That is why I don't consider it a bad idea.

 

- Rev Mike

 

So it's OK to do something illegal if you probably won't get caught? :)

 

Apparently... Perhaps you should just reference yourself as "Mike"... You kinda send the wrong message with the whole 'Reverend' thing...

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I had adopted a cache that was for trading music. It's been muggled and archived, but when I did maintence checks on it, I did come across cds that the cacher had made themselves. No where on the cache page did it say anything about cd mixes. Only about exchanging cds.

Make sure your cache is waterproof so the cds will survive. (especially the winter)

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Thanks for the input folks!

 

One more spanner in the works, If music has been purchased on itunes, then of course there is no solid product to prove it has been purchased, yet as anyone with itunes knows, it is possible to create a playlist from purchased music, which can then be burnt onto disc. Is there any way round the whole legal side of things?, as swapping a disc of music bought on itunes is much the same as leaving a bought cd, its just not in expensive packaging!

Edited by whodatdoc1975
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From a moral standpoint I don't see how this is any different than if I were to go on a caching trip and made a couple of mix cds for the trip. Am I a bad person if I leave them in the driver's car since I already have the real cds and don't need them?

 

But the entire point of my prevoius post was to get the OP to ask his reviewer if it was OK to do what he had planned since that matters more than any opinions given here.

 

- Rev Mike

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From a moral standpoint I don't see how this is any different than if I were to go on a caching trip and made a couple of mix cds for the trip. Am I a bad person if I leave them in the driver's car since I already have the real cds and don't need them?

- Rev Mike

To answer your question, are you a bad person for doing it? I don't think that makes you a bad person, but leaving them in the drivers car after the trip would be a violation of the copyright law. You may make mix CDs of music you own for your own personal use, but giving those away is a violation.

 

 

But the entire point of my prevoius post was to get the OP to ask his reviewer if it was OK to do what he had planned since that matters more than any opinions given here.

 

- Rev Mike

But the OP asked for opinions, and copyright laws matter more than the opinion of a reviewer.

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Hello Folks,

 

I'm wanting to place a cache that would contain a CD of "favourite music" the idea being that people find the cache, and swap the existing CD with one of their own that features a mix of music that reflects their taste. It would be like swapping mixtapes back in the day, except you're burning a "mix disc"! Would this be a suitable idea? Doe anyone have suggestions to improve the idea?

 

All input is valued!

This has been talked about MANY times, copyright infringement, and piracy come to mind as reasons NOT to.

 

Mix CD's have been confirmed in court as fair use so long as the scale is small (making them as gifts for a few friends as opposed to selling hundreds on eBay). Stocking the Cache with 30000 copies would be a violation. Trading out a single mix CD for another single Mix CD I think actually falls into fair use.

 

As for the theme, I like the idea, but you can be sure a lot of cachers won't follow the theme and will just find the cache. The reasons will vary from "no technical know how", to "it's to much to ask for them to do more than sign the log".

Edited by Renegade Knight
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I hardly think that something on the scale of a single cache will bring down the wrath of the copyright gods. I doubt that the SWAT team will dive out of the bushes to arrest anyone that takes a cd from the cache. Provided the cache is not on private property then the container and all contents are technically considered abandoned property and no agency will take the trouble to try to establish a chain of custody on items considered abandoned, that are constantly changing hands.

 

That is why I don't consider it a bad idea.

 

- Rev Mike

 

So it's OK to do something illegal if you probably won't get caught? :unsure:

 

He's right to endorse fair use as defined by the courts. Meaning it's legal. Besides, the law doesn't always follow what's right. Our founding fathers proved that, and a few other societies along the way. Also just becaues someone has a different OPINION on the law and fair use doesn't invalitate the competing opinion. For every legal argument you can find attorneys who study the law on both sides. A lot of our judicial system is dedicated to determing which side is 'right'. In the case of mix CD's. That side is fair use because it's alreayd been to court. Not they can't argue that point, instead it's an argument of when it stops being a few friends.

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I hardly think that something on the scale of a single cache will bring down the wrath of the copyright gods. I doubt that the SWAT team will dive out of the bushes to arrest anyone that takes a cd from the cache. Provided the cache is not on private property then the container and all contents are technically considered abandoned property and no agency will take the trouble to try to establish a chain of custody on items considered abandoned, that are constantly changing hands.

 

That is why I don't consider it a bad idea.

 

- Rev Mike

 

So it's OK to do something illegal if you probably won't get caught? :unsure:

 

He's right to endorse fair use as defined by the courts. Meaning it's legal. Besides, the law doesn't always follow what's right. Our founding fathers proved that, and a few other societies along the way. Also just becaues someone has a different OPINION on the law and fair use doesn't invalitate the competing opinion. For every legal argument you can find attorneys who study the law on both sides. A lot of our judicial system is dedicated to determing which side is 'right'. In the case of mix CD's. That side is fair use because it's alreayd been to court. Not they can't argue that point, instead it's an argument of when it stops being a few friends.

 

Can you cite a reference for me? I'm willing to be educated.

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From a moral standpoint I don't see how this is any different than if I were to go on a caching trip and made a couple of mix cds for the trip. Am I a bad person if I leave them in the driver's car since I already have the real cds and don't need them?

 

But the entire point of my prevoius post was to get the OP to ask his reviewer if it was OK to do what he had planned since that matters more than any opinions given here.

 

- Rev Mike

 

from a moral standpoint, it's just theft on a small scale.

 

would you take $10 from my pocket for your snacks on a roadtrip?

 

no?

 

then don't illegally copy cd's.

 

every time someone tells me how they loved my music so much they burned a copy of my disk to give to somebody because after all they weren't SELLING it, i think "great. that's another $10 out of my pocket."

 

if i GIVE you a free copy, fine. that's my property to do with as i please. if you give your legal copy to someone, that's also fine.

 

if you copy it without my permission, that's theft.

 

now, if you try to tell me that you wouldn't steal from me but that you don't mind stealing from some unknown person who makes more money than i do, how is that moral?

 

do you shoplift if it's only small items?

 

if you make a copy for your hard drive and give away the original, it's still theft. what you are doing there is only obscuring your tracks. you are still providing an unpurchased copy to someone. if you have one copy and make it into two copies without paying for them, it doesn't matter which one of the copies you gave away.

 

try this experiment: steal some money from your employer. then give the same amount of what you legally earned to your brother-in-law. you can only afford to give the money to your brother-in-law because you stole from the company in the first place.

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...Can you cite a reference for me? I'm willing to be educated.

 

One of the 800+ podcasts called Buzz Out Loud referenced it. The issue of copyright protection of music, DRM, the DMCA, RIAA, MPAA, and Fair Use, come up quite a bit. One one episode they covered mix cd's (or tapes) being decided in a court case. I find them to be accurate in general, and also more than happy to follow up when they are wrong. Their audience includes enough experts to give insight when they are off.

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...from a moral standpoint, it's just theft on a small scale....

 

In the begining all music was public domain, and duplication and repitition was all fair use. It's always been intangible. When I hum a tune there is nothing to steal.

 

Copyright law came into being to allow the people who invent intangible things to make a living from them for a reasonable amount of time before reverting back to the public domain and fair use. Copyright law removed what we have come to call intellectural property from the public domain, and at the same time created the concept of fair use which before just existed in a nameless form as normal. You flat out can't make a living hawking IP without extending a person a fair use right of enjoyment. Yeah IP owners like to think copyright law is all about control and that the control precludes fair use. It's not and it doesn't. Heck even if it were the more of my fair use right of enjoymetn an IP owner removes from me the less his IP is worht to me. The limitations of my enjoyment become a PITA and I have enough of those without paying extra.

 

Mix tapes are a fair use right of enjoyment. There is no theft big or small involved. So said the courts, so said fair use. IP owners may be gnashing their teeth, but their copyright in a way was a theft from the public domain to begin with. Copyright doesn't have to exist. It should only exist in that it does the public some good by encouraging folks to be creative and make a living doing that and in so doing bring great works to the world. If the price is that nobody can enjoy them. They are worthless. Folks forget there is a balance between the two extremes.

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From a moral standpoint I don't see how this is any different than if I were to go on a caching trip and made a couple of mix cds for the trip. Am I a bad person if I leave them in the driver's car since I already have the real cds and don't need them?

 

But the entire point of my prevoius post was to get the OP to ask his reviewer if it was OK to do what he had planned since that matters more than any opinions given here.

 

- Rev Mike

 

from a moral standpoint, it's just theft on a small scale.

 

would you take $10 from my pocket for your snacks on a roadtrip?

 

no?

 

then don't illegally copy cd's.

 

every time someone tells me how they loved my music so much they burned a copy of my disk to give to somebody because after all they weren't SELLING it, i think "great. that's another $10 out of my pocket."

 

if i GIVE you a free copy, fine. that's my property to do with as i please. if you give your legal copy to someone, that's also fine.

 

if you copy it without my permission, that's theft.

 

now, if you try to tell me that you wouldn't steal from me but that you don't mind stealing from some unknown person who makes more money than i do, how is that moral?

 

do you shoplift if it's only small items?

 

if you make a copy for your hard drive and give away the original, it's still theft. what you are doing there is only obscuring your tracks. you are still providing an unpurchased copy to someone. if you have one copy and make it into two copies without paying for them, it doesn't matter which one of the copies you gave away.

 

try this experiment: steal some money from your employer. then give the same amount of what you legally earned to your brother-in-law. you can only afford to give the money to your brother-in-law because you stole from the company in the first place.

 

Maybe you guys blasting Rev Mike might want to check the laws first? I am guessing you're giving the Rev a hard time for nothing!

 

The boldened comment made me smile! You'd also tell us you've never made a copy of ANY media for any purpose? To follow your thinking, VCRs, TiVOs and such are illegal reproduction machines as well? And what of those iPods???

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But the OP asked for opinions, and copyright laws matter more than the opinion of a reviewer.

 

All I am saying there is that the decision to publish the cache or not is the reviewer's so how is it bad advise to advise the OP to run the idea past his reviewer?

 

- Rev Mike

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...from a moral standpoint, it's just theft on a small scale....

 

In the begining all music was public domain, and duplication and repitition was all fair use. It's always been intangible. When I hum a tune there is nothing to steal.

 

Copyright law came into being to allow the people who invent intangible things to make a living from them for a reasonable amount of time before reverting back to the public domain and fair use. Copyright law removed what we have come to call intellectural property from the public domain, and at the same time created the concept of fair use which before just existed in a nameless form as normal. You flat out can't make a living hawking IP without extending a person a fair use right of enjoyment. Yeah IP owners like to think copyright law is all about control and that the control precludes fair use. It's not and it doesn't. Heck even if it were the more of my fair use right of enjoymetn an IP owner removes from me the less his IP is worht to me. The limitations of my enjoyment become a PITA and I have enough of those without paying extra.

 

Mix tapes are a fair use right of enjoyment. There is no theft big or small involved. So said the courts, so said fair use. IP owners may be gnashing their teeth, but their copyright in a way was a theft from the public domain to begin with. Copyright doesn't have to exist. It should only exist in that it does the public some good by encouraging folks to be creative and make a living doing that and in so doing bring great works to the world. If the price is that nobody can enjoy them. They are worthless. Folks forget there is a balance between the two extremes.

 

if your enjoyment of my work means that you have to steal it, i'd just as well you enjoy somebody else's work.

 

it puts no food on my table for you to take your favorite of my songs and put it on mix tapes for all your friends. that's significantly different than, say, dropping it onto a mix playlist for your car.

 

i don't know what your profession is, but i bet you wouldn't like people feeling entitled to steal your work because they're only stealing a little, or because stealing it makes them enjoy it more, or because you'd like to have your friends be able to benefit from your services without paying for them.

 

if you make copies of my recordings without my permission, you are stealing from me. if you make xerox copies of my sheet music so your choir can sing it, you are stealing from me.

 

you are under no obligation to use or enjoy my work, but you should not use it without paying for it. if you can't enjoy it without paying for it, don't use it. that ten dollars you decided you didn't really have to pay me is ten dollars i really could have used.

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...from a moral standpoint, it's just theft on a small scale....

 

In the begining all music was public domain, and duplication and repitition was all fair use. It's always been intangible. When I hum a tune there is nothing to steal.

 

Copyright law came into being to allow the people who invent intangible things to make a living from them for a reasonable amount of time before reverting back to the public domain and fair use. Copyright law removed what we have come to call intellectural property from the public domain, and at the same time created the concept of fair use which before just existed in a nameless form as normal. You flat out can't make a living hawking IP without extending a person a fair use right of enjoyment. Yeah IP owners like to think copyright law is all about control and that the control precludes fair use. It's not and it doesn't. Heck even if it were the more of my fair use right of enjoymetn an IP owner removes from me the less his IP is worht to me. The limitations of my enjoyment become a PITA and I have enough of those without paying extra.

 

Mix tapes are a fair use right of enjoyment. There is no theft big or small involved. So said the courts, so said fair use. IP owners may be gnashing their teeth, but their copyright in a way was a theft from the public domain to begin with. Copyright doesn't have to exist. It should only exist in that it does the public some good by encouraging folks to be creative and make a living doing that and in so doing bring great works to the world. If the price is that nobody can enjoy them. They are worthless. Folks forget there is a balance between the two extremes.

 

if your enjoyment of my work means that you have to steal it, i'd just as well you enjoy somebody else's work.

 

it puts no food on my table for you to take your favorite of my songs and put it on mix tapes for all your friends. that's significantly different than, say, dropping it onto a mix playlist for your car.

 

i don't know what your profession is, but i bet you wouldn't like people feeling entitled to steal your work because they're only stealing a little, or because stealing it makes them enjoy it more, or because you'd like to have your friends be able to benefit from your services without paying for them.

 

if you make copies of my recordings without my permission, you are stealing from me. if you make xerox copies of my sheet music so your choir can sing it, you are stealing from me.

 

you are under no obligation to use or enjoy my work, but you should not use it without paying for it. if you can't enjoy it without paying for it, don't use it. that ten dollars you decided you didn't really have to pay me is ten dollars i really could have used.

 

You're already changing your tune! You said in a previous post this would be stealing??

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From a moral standpoint I don't see how this is any different than if I were to go on a caching trip and made a couple of mix cds for the trip. Am I a bad person if I leave them in the driver's car since I already have the real cds and don't need them?

 

But the entire point of my prevoius post was to get the OP to ask his reviewer if it was OK to do what he had planned since that matters more than any opinions given here.

 

- Rev Mike

 

from a moral standpoint, it's just theft on a small scale.

 

would you take $10 from my pocket for your snacks on a roadtrip?

 

no?

 

then don't illegally copy cd's.

 

every time someone tells me how they loved my music so much they burned a copy of my disk to give to somebody because after all they weren't SELLING it, i think "great. that's another $10 out of my pocket."

 

if i GIVE you a free copy, fine. that's my property to do with as i please. if you give your legal copy to someone, that's also fine.

 

if you copy it without my permission, that's theft.

 

now, if you try to tell me that you wouldn't steal from me but that you don't mind stealing from some unknown person who makes more money than i do, how is that moral?

 

do you shoplift if it's only small items?

 

if you make a copy for your hard drive and give away the original, it's still theft. what you are doing there is only obscuring your tracks. you are still providing an unpurchased copy to someone. if you have one copy and make it into two copies without paying for them, it doesn't matter which one of the copies you gave away.

 

try this experiment: steal some money from your employer. then give the same amount of what you legally earned to your brother-in-law. you can only afford to give the money to your brother-in-law because you stole from the company in the first place.

 

Maybe you guys blasting Rev Mike might want to check the laws first? I am guessing you're giving the Rev a hard time for nothing!

 

The boldened comment made me smile! You'd also tell us you've never made a copy of ANY media for any purpose? To follow your thinking, VCRs, TiVOs and such are illegal reproduction machines as well? And what of those iPods???

 

i enlarged the important part since you didn't seem to understand it properly. you can make all the copies you want for your own use and even stretch a little to provide a small amount of content,in, say, a mix tape.

 

as soon as you distribute copied work even on a small scale it's theft.

 

it's still no different if you keep the pirated copy an pass on the original. you have still distributed a copy.

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...Can you cite a reference for me? I'm willing to be educated.

 

One of the 800+ podcasts called Buzz Out Loud referenced it. The issue of copyright protection of music, DRM, the DMCA, RIAA, MPAA, and Fair Use, come up quite a bit. One one episode they covered mix cd's (or tapes) being decided in a court case. I find them to be accurate in general, and also more than happy to follow up when they are wrong. Their audience includes enough experts to give insight when they are off.

I will check it out.

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From a moral standpoint I don't see how this is any different than if I were to go on a caching trip and made a couple of mix cds for the trip. Am I a bad person if I leave them in the driver's car since I already have the real cds and don't need them?

 

But the entire point of my prevoius post was to get the OP to ask his reviewer if it was OK to do what he had planned since that matters more than any opinions given here.

 

- Rev Mike

 

from a moral standpoint, it's just theft on a small scale.

 

would you take $10 from my pocket for your snacks on a roadtrip?

 

no?

 

then don't illegally copy cd's.

 

every time someone tells me how they loved my music so much they burned a copy of my disk to give to somebody because after all they weren't SELLING it, i think "great. that's another $10 out of my pocket."

 

if i GIVE you a free copy, fine. that's my property to do with as i please. if you give your legal copy to someone, that's also fine.

 

if you copy it without my permission, that's theft.

 

now, if you try to tell me that you wouldn't steal from me but that you don't mind stealing from some unknown person who makes more money than i do, how is that moral?

 

do you shoplift if it's only small items?

 

if you make a copy for your hard drive and give away the original, it's still theft. what you are doing there is only obscuring your tracks. you are still providing an unpurchased copy to someone. if you have one copy and make it into two copies without paying for them, it doesn't matter which one of the copies you gave away.

 

try this experiment: steal some money from your employer. then give the same amount of what you legally earned to your brother-in-law. you can only afford to give the money to your brother-in-law because you stole from the company in the first place.

 

Maybe you guys blasting Rev Mike might want to check the laws first? I am guessing you're giving the Rev a hard time for nothing!

 

The boldened comment made me smile! You'd also tell us you've never made a copy of ANY media for any purpose? To follow your thinking, VCRs, TiVOs and such are illegal reproduction machines as well? And what of those iPods???

 

i enlarged the important part since you didn't seem to understand it properly. you can make all the copies you want for your own use and even stretch a little to provide a small amount of content,in, say, a mix tape.

 

as soon as you distribute copied work even on a small scale it's theft.

 

it's still no different if you keep the pirated copy an pass on the original. you have still distributed a copy.

 

I read it and understood it just fine, no need to act like others can't see...ok? I'll interact with you as long as you can act rational and be cordial here!

 

Read the laws. Distribution isn't making one or two or even 5 copies...

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Read the laws. Distribution isn't making one or two or even 5 copies...

 

if you make 20 or five or ten copies of my work, you are in fact distributing it.

 

you are taking my work without paying for it and you are giving it away, which is stealing money from me.

 

if you "only" steal ten dollars from me, it's still theft.

 

there isn't ever any big sale of tons of recordings; any money i make is money i make one recording at a time. if you decide to duplicate my recordings and then give them away, not only am i not receiving the money from the sale, but i am not recovering my overhead.

 

you'd feel bad, i hope, about stealing small amounts from shopkeepers or construction workers or dentists.

 

why do you feel you should steal from me?

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The way I look at it these artists just got some free marketing because if people like a song from a group then they might buy a cd. So if you take a cd from the cache write in your log, which song/group that you liked and go buy a cd. Another idea would be to make cds of 30 second clips of a bunch of songs.

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"these artists" should get to decide what "free marketing" is worth to them. it really isn't up to you to decide how much theft of my work is somehow doing me a favor.

 

artists know how to provide free material for promotional purposes; where we wish to do so, we do so. increasingly people do not purchase a whole cd; the trend in purchasing is very much toward buying just the one or two songs you really like.

 

if you already have an illegal copy of the one song you like, typically you don't buy the disc. that doesn't put food on my table.

 

making a disc of 30 second clips IS free marketing.

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Here is an idea. If the general purpose is to share your music that you like, maybe you can create a playlist on itunes or comparable site/program and put a link to the playlist in the cache. The person who finds the cache could then sample some of the music and purchase only the music that he/she likes and then comment on it in the cache comments section. Just my two pennies.

 

Che

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just by-the-way, i DO leave legal copies of my work in caches. some of them i don't leave as trade items, but as gifts.

 

both of these things happened to me recently: a cacher sent me a note telling me how much he LOVED my work; he loved it so much that he made an illegal copy before giving the original to a friend. that's $10 i could have used to buy groceries.

 

another cacher sent me an email telling me how much she LOVES the disc she found, and could i make available to her for inclusion on a mix just ONE of the tracks?

 

i sent her a version of that track not released commercially, a version she likes better. that didn't make me any money, but i had a choice about it.

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just by-the-way, i DO leave legal copies of my work in caches. some of them i don't leave as trade items, but as gifts.

 

both of these things happened to me recently: a cacher sent me a note telling me how much he LOVED my work; he loved it so much that he made an illegal copy before giving the original to a friend. that's $10 i could have used to buy groceries.

 

another cacher sent me an email telling me how much she LOVES the disc she found, and could i make available to her for inclusion on a mix just ONE of the tracks?

 

i sent her a version of that track not released commercially, a version she likes better. that didn't make me any money, but i had a choice about it.

 

I see your point. It's a big problem for the music industry that nobody takes seriously. I've heard that the artist only gets something like a few cents out of every dollar. Talk about the goose that laid the golden egg...

 

Edit: Can we get link to a 30 second clip of yours? :yikes:

Edited by TrailGators
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just by-the-way, i DO leave legal copies of my work in caches. some of them i don't leave as trade items, but as gifts.

 

both of these things happened to me recently: a cacher sent me a note telling me how much he LOVED my work; he loved it so much that he made an illegal copy before giving the original to a friend. that's $10 i could have used to buy groceries.

 

another cacher sent me an email telling me how much she LOVES the disc she found, and could i make available to her for inclusion on a mix just ONE of the tracks?

 

i sent her a version of that track not released commercially, a version she likes better. that didn't make me any money, but i had a choice about it.

 

I see your point. It's a big problem for the music industry that nobody takes seriously. I've heard that the artist only gets something like a few cents out of every dollar. Talk about the goose that laid the golden egg...

 

Edit: Can we get link to a 30 second clip of yours? :yikes:

 

i'm not quite as much worried about the recording industry as i am about the artists. granted, i'm not in favor of stealing from giant predatory megaliths, but that's just me.

 

smaller artists rely more heavily on that income, and their futures with recording companies or publishing companies are determined by whether or not their work SELLS.

 

me, for every disc someone copies for themselves, that $10 i would have gotten would partly have gone to recovering my cost for producing the disc in the first place. more and more artists are choosing to produce themselves these days and bypass the large companies, and theft of our intellectual property takes a much larger bite.

 

while i don't have 30 second clips available, i do have a podcast:

 

http://web.me.com/flask/flask/Podcast/Podcast.html

 

please be warned that what's there isn't intended for commercial use; it's just a collection of sound files that i felt like posting.

 

some of it's music, and some of it's spoken word. there is both religious and secular material, blah, blah, blah. my genres are folksinger/storyteller/classical/electronic/whatever.

 

it's eclectic.

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if your enjoyment of my work means that you have to steal it, i'd just as well you enjoy somebody else's work.

 

it puts no food on my table for you to take your favorite of my songs and put it on mix tapes for all your friends. that's significantly different than, say, dropping it onto a mix playlist for your car.

 

i don't know what your profession is, but i bet you wouldn't like people feeling entitled to steal your work because they're only stealing a little, or because stealing it makes them enjoy it more, or because you'd like to have your friends be able to benefit from your services without paying for them.

 

if you make copies of my recordings without my permission, you are stealing from me. if you make xerox copies of my sheet music so your choir can sing it, you are stealing from me.

 

you are under no obligation to use or enjoy my work, but you should not use it without paying for it. if you can't enjoy it without paying for it, don't use it. that ten dollars you decided you didn't really have to pay me is ten dollars i really could have used.

 

Whatever happened to artists who created art for the sheer love of it? I wonder if Vincent Van Gogh rolls over in his grave every time someone looks at one of his paintings on the internet rather than buying an original? Would he say "why don't you just go look at someone else's art instead!"

Edited by kwalsh554
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Whatever happened to artists who created art for the sheer love of it?

 

whatever happened to physicians who went into medicine for the love of healing people? attorneys who went into law for the love of justice? mechanics who love the way and engine works?

 

do you begrudge them making a living at what they love? would you feel okay about stealing their services?

 

someone mentioned the grand old days before artists were paid, when music was free. well, in those days a community supported the bard or the musicians that provided those services. if you all want to buy my groceries for me, i will be happy, happy, happy to sit here and make music and not worry about my proprietary rights.

 

i'll throw in my paintings for free!

 

oh, wait. that's what selling music enables one to do. interestingly, our economy is currency-based. we no longer barter everything. in order for artists to take advantage of that convenience, we need to be paid.

 

i can't expect my greengrocer to provide me with food just for the love of it.

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Whatever happened to artists who created art for the sheer love of it?

 

whatever happened to physicians who went into medicine for the love of healing people? attorneys who went into law for the love of justice? mechanics who love the way and engine works?

 

do you begrudge them making a living at what they love? would you feel okay about stealing their services?

 

someone mentioned the grand old days before artists were paid, when music was free. well, in those days a community supported the bard or the musicians that provided those services. if you all want to buy my groceries for me, i will be happy, happy, happy to sit here and make music and not worry about my proprietary rights.

 

i'll throw in my paintings for free!

 

oh, wait. that's what selling music enables one to do. interestingly, our economy is currency-based. we no longer barter everything. in order for artists to take advantage of that convenience, we need to be paid.

 

i can't expect my greengrocer to provide me with food just for the love of it.

 

...Don't forget computer programmers that made a cool Geocaching website for free! :yikes: Edited by TrailGators
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You're all idiots, music comes from the soul not CDs, cassettes, or files.

 

You may want to read the guidelines for these forums, name calling is frowned upon!!

 

Flask is going on about being worried someone will get some music free...but how likely is it to take food from his/her table?? How many people even know your music is out there let alone would know how to "steal" it? You're harping about the "small guy' but the small guy is the one who'd benefit from the music being put out (remember, you don't have a radio station playing your music to advertise for you).

 

The "big boys" sign contracts which allow for just such things as free downloads, radio play, promotional releases etc, they all know going in that their music will be passed around and not all will be bought! This is the laws I am speaking about, the ones which cover the professionals. The promotors these big boys sign with know all the ins and outs, do you suppose they wouldn't know how to protect their wares??

 

When you go to a wedding and you see your uncle taping the procession, do you think the organist is getting mad his/her music is being stolen? We're really talking about the same type of thing here...right??

 

So, by continuing to complain about something you're in no way going to be hindered by and on something you won't even bother to check the laws on, you're just making a stink about nothing...and giving the Rev a hard time when you shouldn't be!

 

Having worked with and around some of the "big boys", I am fairly confident of what I'm saying! And, I've put a lot of money into promoting a few bands, so I know a bit about this! One band in particular made it big and toured with Ozzy for a few years, had their music on the national airwaves! Some bands I've worked with or booked are still playing in the "big time"!

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This thread has gone way off topic. If you want to continue discussing the current tangent please start a thread in the off topic forum.

 

In answer to the original poster's question, Groundspeak instructs its reviewers not to publish any caches that contain pirated material. That is all Whodatdoc1975 needs to know.

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