+2/3 Marine Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Got access to private property on 12/31/08 to hunt a few USGS marks and two with PID#'s. These two PID's JK1176 and JK1171 were both stamped HAMMER and aproxamately 2.6 miles apart. One monumented by the USGS in 1939 and the other one monumented by CGS in 1949. It seems like the CGS would have known about the USGS mark and given theirs a different designation. First time I've come across something like this. They are both on the original Hammer Ranch. Quote Link to comment
Papa-Bear-NYC Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Got access to private property on 12/31/08 to hunt a few USGS marks and two with PID#'s. These two PID's JK1176 and JK1171 were both stamped HAMMER and aproxamately 2.6 miles apart. One monumented by the USGS in 1939 and the other one monumented by CGS in 1949. It seems like the CGS would have known about the USGS mark and given theirs a different designation. First time I've come across something like this. They are both on the original Hammer Ranch. I've seen a few: HUMPBACK (Hancock Co. Maine) NGS PE1692 Set 1858, Reset 1934; USGS PE1693 Set 1928. They are about 100 yards apart. MONADNOCK (Cheshire Co., NH) NGS MZ1473 Set 1860; USGS MZ1474 Set 1931. That one is cool since the two marks are just over 1 foot apart. The 1860 mark is a drill hole in a triangle with 5 lines radiating from it, The 1931 is a standard USGS disk. MONADNOCK (left) and MONADNOCK (right) (Click for larger image) Edited January 5, 2009 by Papa-Bear-NYC Quote Link to comment
NGS Surveyor Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Station BUTTERMILK 1833 (set by USC&GS) also has a USGS disk very close, that was set about a 100 years later, see photo at: http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/founda...e1_spatial.html. I would guess that USGS set it because they wanted to be able to identify the station with a name on the disk. Since BUTTERMILK is a drill hole (see my pen pointing to the hole in the photo), there was no name stamped. In other cases where two agencies set nearby disks, I think it was usually just a lack of information. USC&GS instructions stated to make survey ties to other agencies marks, and to never modify the stamping on another agency's disk. GeorgeL NGS Quote Link to comment
Papa-Bear-NYC Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Station BUTTERMILK 1833 (set by USC&GS) also has a USGS disk very close, that was set about a 100 years later, see photo at: http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/founda...e1_spatial.html. I would guess that USGS set it because they wanted to be able to identify the station with a name on the disk. Since BUTTERMILK is a drill hole (see my pen pointing to the hole in the photo), there was no name stamped. In other cases where two agencies set nearby disks, I think it was usually just a lack of information. USC&GS instructions stated to make survey ties to other agencies marks, and to never modify the stamping on another agency's disk. GeorgeL NGS True. But the USGS disk's designation is TT 57 K. See LX4112. It was set in 1932. But where did the USGS come up with that designation? Sound like some kind of Traverse point with the "TT". click Edited January 5, 2009 by Papa-Bear-NYC Quote Link to comment
DaveD Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 TT stands for Transit Traverse. Whenever you see such a designation you can almost always be assured that it's a USGS point. Quote Link to comment
DaveD Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I should have added that if you find one designed ET that stands for Electronic Traverse which means the distances between traverse stations was measured with some form electronic distance measuring equipment (EDMI) using laser, microwave or infrared energy source. Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I have a did not find on a PHONE ET in Texas. That is it's actual designation. It was near a Phone tower. But the description says a disc I could not find for my Never Ending Benchmark Story. Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Got access to private property on 12/31/08 to hunt a few USGS marks and two with PID#'s. These two PID's JK1176 and JK1171 were both stamped HAMMER and aproxamately 2.6 miles apart. One monumented by the USGS in 1939 and the other one monumented by CGS in 1949. It seems like the CGS would have known about the USGS mark and given theirs a different designation. First time I've come across something like this. They are both on the original Hammer Ranch. Good finds! And as always, with your logs, I enjoyed your pictures. I remember the first time very well (8/03/2003, J's birthday) that I quizzed John when I saw SHINARUMP CAIRN (PID GQ0288) with it's 2 reference disks by the USGS and SHINARUMP Triangulation Station (PID GQ0289) with both reference disks placed by CGS, right at the same place. John found this from the Triangulation station benchmark page... A TIE-IN WAS MADE TO THE U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY AND POWELL SURVEY TRIANGULATION STATION CAIRN. ...that pretty much explained the reason why for me. We have since found several marks with the same names with different disks from either AZ dot or CGS or USGS. Although most of the others are far apart and found at different times. They are still interesting to find. On any benchmarks with "names" instead of numbers, just put the name into the "find a benchmark" with the "By Designation" checked. You may use a state or just leave it blank. This will pull up most of those "names". It is definitely interesting! Shirley Quote Link to comment
NGS Surveyor Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 You can even put in your own last name and see if someone in the past has named a mark after someone with the same name. GeorgeL NGS Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 You can even put in your own last name and see if someone in the past has named a mark after someone with the same name. GeorgeL NGS George, did you personally set this one? PID JV2322 Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) It looks like DaveD has been around also. Find a Benchmark Page. I hope you don't mind me using your last name. Shirley But Wait! The link no longer works like it used to. It just takes you to the "Find a Benchmark Page" So, here is the gist of what was on the page I wanted you to see. Total Records: 39 - Page: 1 of 2 - Prev. << <[1 2]> >> Next Icon PID Dist Designation State Type Found Last Log d/l Benchmark not logged AC5092 DOYLE RM 3 MN reference mark disk Benchmark not logged AC5128 DOYLE RANCH CO horizontal control disk Benchmark not logged AF8583 DOYLE CO horizontal control disk Benchmark not logged AU0358 DOYLE LA pipe cap Benchmark not logged BJ0470 DOYLE LA triangulation station disk Benchmark not logged BJ0471 DOYLE AZ MK LADH LA azimuth mark disk Benchmark not logged EL0990 DOYLE OK triangulation station disk Benchmark not logged EN0960 DOYLE TX survey disk Benchmark not logged FE2275 DOYLE TN triangulation station disk Benchmark not logged GK0892 DOYLE TX triangulation station disk Benchmark not logged GZ2851 DOYLES KY triangulation station disk Benchmark not logged JL0724 DOYLE CO survey disk Benchmark found KL0741 DOYLE CO type not specified 10/28/2008 Found it Benchmark found KY3468 DOYLE OH type not specified 5/5/2006 Found it Benchmark found LT0470 DOYLE CA triangulation station disk 8/19/2005 Found it Benchmark not logged MG0224 DOYLE IL triangulation station disk Benchmark not logged MG0225 DOYLE RM 1 IL reference mark disk Benchmark not logged MG0229 DOYLE AZ MK IL azimuth mark disk Benchmark not logged MG0658 DOYLE RM 3 IL reference mark disk Benchmark not logged ML1054 DOYLE NE triangulation station disk Benchmark not logged NH1623 DOYLE WI triangulation station disk Benchmark not logged OC1496 DOYLE RESET ME type not specified Benchmark not logged PR1002 DOYLE SD survey disk Benchmark not logged PR1003 DOYLE AZ MK SD survey disk Benchmark found SH0761 DOYLE MN triangulation station disk 7/18/2005 Found it Edited January 7, 2009 by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Quote Link to comment
Mesa Mike Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 You can even put in your own last name and see if someone in the past has named a mark after someone with the same name. Hey, great idea! I tried it and found one mark in Oregon, but this is what the data sheet says: The NGS Data SheetSee file dsdata.txt for more information about the datasheet. DATABASE = ,PROGRAM = datasheet, VERSION = 7.64 *** retrieval complete. Elapsed Time = 00:00:00 Msg=FATAL_ERROR - No Marks found ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - This listing contains control for which complete digital - - data sheets where not provided. The complete data sheets were - - not provided for the reason listed below. The reason below is - - associated with a horizontal control Nonpub code shown under - - the heading 'H' and/or a vertical control Nonpub code shown under - - the heading 'v' - - - - The format of the records are as follows: - - Pid = Station Permanent Identifier) - - Name = Station Designation - - Lat = Approx. Latitude (Degrees, Minutes, truncated Seconds) - - Lon = Approx. Longitude (Degrees, Minutes, truncated Seconds) - - O = Horizontal Order - - o = Vertical Order - - H = Horizontal Nonpub Code - - v = Vertical Nonpub Code - - - - H Nonpub HORIZONTAL CONTROL NONPUB REASON - - -------- -------------------------------- - - X Surface Mark Reported Destroyed - - Y Surface and underground mark reported destroyed - - A A-Order Horizontal mark not tied to an adjusted HARN - - C C-Nonoperational CORS Station - - W Weakly determined position. - - P Purpose of position is not for network control - - D No Descriptive Text available - - R Restricted position - - O Outside NGS Publication Area - - N No geodetic control at this mark - - - - v Nonpub VERTICAL CONTROL NONPUB REASON - - -------- ------------------------------ - - X Surface Mark Reported Destroyed - - Y Surface and underground mark reported destroyed - - F Bench Mark not yet adjusted. - - D No Descriptive Text available - - Z Presumed destroyed - - R Restricted elevation - - O Outside NGS Publication Area - - N No geodetic control at this mark - - S Mark is in a subsidence area - - - - - - NOTE - Stations found in this listing may still have a valid - - datasheet produced by use of other publishable values. - - For example, an ADJUSTED height may be non-publishable - - but a good GPS height might be found on the datasheet. - - This listing does not imply that values found on the datasheet - - are restricted. If it's on the datasheet, use it. - - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pid Name Lat Lon Elev O o Hv ------ ------------------------------ ---------- ----------- -------- - - -- >OH1210 WESTFALL 43 56 16.6/117 58 06.8 3 D Also, using the PID the mark is not found in the GC.com database Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 There are quite a few from mine. Total Records: 19 Icon PID Dist Designation State Type Found Last Log d/l -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AH8270 BRITTON NC horizontal control disk 7/31/2008 BE3601 BRITTON FL triangulation station disk CS2921 BRITTON TX triangulation station disk DE1701 BRITTON RM 2 SC reference mark disk DE1799 BRITTON SC unspecified disk type (see text) DK1255 BRITTON BOLT MS bolt DK1256 BRITTON CAP MS cap-and-bolt pair DO0768 BRITTON TX triangulation station disk DQ0730 BRITTON TX triangulation station disk EB2249 BRITTON NC triangulation station disk EY2629 ALBRITTON NC horizontal control disk FE2287 BRITTON LANE LOT WT 28 TN lookout tower FJ0866 BRITTON OK triangulation station disk 12/11/2006 MW0892 BRITTON CA type not specified NE1492 BRITTON MI type not specified QQ0455 BRITTON TANK SD elevated tank QQ0456 BRITTON SD triangulation station disk QQ0473 BRITTON MARSHALL CO COURTHOUSE DOME SD dome QQ0474 WEST BRITTON SD triangulation station disk Quote Link to comment
NGS Surveyor Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 No, I did not set the "GEORGE" in Montgomery County MD (although that is where I live). I did set one with my last name in TX just before my first daughter was born and someone on GC recently recovered it! (see AB1402). Also there is one in OK that was named after me, see EM1082. GeorgeL NGS Quote Link to comment
Mesa Mike Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (see AB1402) You mean AB1409, right? Or is your name really WINDY 1913... Quote Link to comment
NGS Surveyor Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Yes, sorry. GeorgeL NGS Quote Link to comment
+GrizzFlyer Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Following this thread, I did a search on my name, not expecting to find anything since it is sort of unusual. Found both first and last, sheesh. First: AE3320 and its AZ mark, AE3324 Both these marks are in Ohio too, I'll have to drive down there this Spring and recover them. They both have Street Views of the marks under the Google Maps option, when did they start that?? Last: LW4435 JV5242 JV5227 Quote Link to comment
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