confused and wandering

January 3, 2009

Well I work with individuals with mental health issues, I decided trying some 'treasure hunting' would be good for them and we set out to try.

Well I now know I would never make it as an explorer, I could not find ANY of the caches we looked for, my garmin told me we were there, but nothing. So, I know this is operator error, but would really appreciate any guidance in this area.

Several of my clients really want to try this, and I feel lost in the fact that we have not found anything. Emmett never felt so large...sigh

any help would be greatly appreciated..

~jerilyn

January 3, 2009

Hi jerilyn

could you post one of the caches you looked for?

Well I work with individuals with mental health issues, I decided trying some 'treasure hunting' would be good for them and we set out to try.

Well I now know I would never make it as an explorer, I could not find ANY of the caches we looked for, my garmin told me we were there, but nothing. So, I know this is operator error, but would really appreciate any guidance in this area.

Several of my clients really want to try this, and I feel lost in the fact that we have not found anything. Emmett never felt so large...sigh

any help would be greatly appreciated..

~jerilyn

January 3, 2009

Hi jerilyn

could you post one of the caches you looked for?

Well I work with individuals with mental health issues, I decided trying some 'treasure hunting' would be good for them and we set out to try.

Well I now know I would never make it as an explorer, I could not find ANY of the caches we looked for, my garmin told me we were there, but nothing. So, I know this is operator error, but would really appreciate any guidance in this area.

Several of my clients really want to try this, and I feel lost in the fact that we have not found anything. Emmett never felt so large...sigh

any help would be greatly appreciated..

~jerilyn

January 3, 2009

Read your cache descriptions carefully, at least in the beginning. Look at cache size -- is it nano, micro, small or regular? The size should give you a good idea where to look. Nanos and micros are usually (often) magnetic so look for metal and a place where something small can be placed. A regular sized cache is usually under a bush, behind a log, in a stump, etc. etc. etc.

Next read your clues -- at some point you might want to brave it and ignor the clues until you are stuck, but in the beginning they will give you another idea of where to look.

Finally, read the past logs. Often just reading other cacher's comments will give you a good idea where to search.

Remember, your GPS will get you within 20 feet of the cache. Sometimes you will be lucky enough to be spot on, but often the cache will be within 10-15 feet of ground zero. This is dependent on not only the accuracy of your GPS but also the GPS of the person placing the cache. We found two caches placed by very experienced cachers to be off by 300 feet -- but they were placed in a densely wooded area where the trees created problems. Good luck and don't give up. Once you fine a couple it will get easier and easier.

January 3, 2009

One huge tip I found after having a few DNF's was the Garmin colorado (not sure on other models) needs a calibration after each time you change the batteries. This has helped a lot as the difference can be several meters, many a time when out in the field and I remember to do it it goes from 12 meters away down to 7 without moving.

If your unsure on how to calibrate your model a google search brings up all you'll need to know.

Hope this helps

January 3, 2009

I'm new myself, so take everything here with a grain of salt.

Pay attention to everything in the description, especially anything that's a play on words that can be taken as a hint. I usually type out a list of caches that I plan to hunt and any clues that I may have gotten from the description, previous logs, or even the galleries. I make sure to have the difficulty/terrain ratings in there as well as their size. It definitely helps knowing what you're looking for!

I hope to get to the point where I can go out with just my GPS and knowing the size of the cache. Carrying around all the papers can be an annoyance, but it's helped me immensely (well...for a week or so at least). I've also grown to enjoy checking of something on my list after signing a log.

Something else to pay attention to is the number of DNF's and when the cache was last found. If a number of cachers weren't able to find it, or it hasn't been found in months, there's always the chance that it's been muggled, and you just need to move onto another cache.

Anyway, that's my take on things so far. I'll be reading, and hopefully the more experienced will add their wisdom.

2.7k · January 3, 2009

Some of this has already been covered, but what are the GC numbers of the caches you tried to find. We can then read those pages to determine: what is the SIZE, what is the D/T (difficulty/terrain), how recently have they been found, is there a good HINT, what have previous finders said about their experience.

And, what make and model GPS do you have? How did you get the coordinates into the GPS? On the GPS, what screen and data are you looking at during the search? Is the GPS brand new out of the box, or is there a chance some of the factory settings have been changed by you or someone else?

January 3, 2009

Lots of replies! Thank you! Ok, here are the answers to most of all the questions, if I missed anything, just let me know!

GC1J3AF – difficulty of 2. I know I was in the right area, but we found nothing.

GC1J3AM – difficulty of 1.5. said a 'lock n lock' container, not sure what that is. And the size of an ammo can.

GC1J3AW – difficulty of 1.5. says a small cache.

I have a Garmin 60csx. I knew most of these locations when I read them, but just could find nothing. I could only crawl around in the sage brush for so long! Smile…

I downloaded the coordinates straight to my gps. I was looking at the 'map' page and then the page that tells you step by step directions. both said I was right there, but then it would read a different 'foot' length to the cache. I am sure this is operator error!

I am in Emmett, Idaho. Small town and really hard to find healthy, fun, entertaining and possible activities for my clients. If there is anyone else here in Emmett that could help me, I would really appreciate it!

~jerilyn

Edited January 3, 2009 by jerilyn

2.7k · January 3, 2009

My first thought is that kc7hfu needs to give actual hints or just leave that feature blank. You seem to understand the concept of difficulty (a lower number = easier). You picked three different sizes. All have been found within the last week. Several logs about easy finds. Between the three searches you should have found something if you were at the right spot.

You downloaded the coordinates straight to the gps. Do you understand the concept of coordinate format (HDDMM.mmm being the Groundspeak standard). Do you understand the concept of Datum (WGS84 is the Groundspeak standard). If you manually enter coords do they match the downloaded coords?

But the part about "I was looking at the 'map' page and then the page that tells you step by step directions" has me confused. I'm not a big fan of the map page, but some of my friends are. But what step by step directions? I've only done that in a Follow Road type mode while navigating in the car, but Geocaching is a straight line GOTO exercise for me. I follow the striaght line arrow and distance readout to the coords you are navigating to.

If nothing we say here helps, look for a local event and get to know some local cachers. They will certainly be able to show you the ropes.

January 3, 2009

...both said I was right there, but then it would read a different 'foot' length to the cache. I am sure this is operator error...

This is probably not operator error but how the system works. The GPS receives satellite signals every second. The new signal will be off a little from the previous signal. Even when standing still, each signal will give a slightly different location from the previous one. But not by a whole lot.

Recreation grade GPS is real good at getting you within about 50 feet of a known location.

To test how this works, after checking the settings Cardinal Red suggested in a previous post, go to a location in your neighborhood. Create a waypoint at that location. Then walk away from the location 300 feet or so. Then use your GPS to return to that waypoint. Your GPS should get you close to the spot you created the waypoint but it won't be exact.

Edited January 3, 2009 by rlridgeway

38.2k · January 3, 2009

I think the mistake that most novices make is that they expect the GPS to bring them right to the cache and limit their search to that immediate area. This may be your problem.

Remember that your GPS is only accurate to from 5-30 feet (depending on a number of factors). So was the GPS of the person who hid the cache. So the cache can be as many as 60 feet (and sometimes more) from where your GPS says it is. You usually will find it within 20-30 feet, but if you don't, then start expanding your search radius.

It's also helpful if you limit your searches to regular sized caches with a difficulty of 2 or less at first. Micros can be frustrating for veteran geocachers and nearly impossible for novices.

January 3, 2009

You downloaded the coordinates straight to the gps. Do you understand the concept of coordinate format (HDDMM.mmm being the Groundspeak standard). Do you understand the concept of Datum (WGS84 is the Groundspeak standard). If you manually enter coords do they match the downloaded coords?

Not sure about the format. I just have my gps hooked to the laptop, and I click the button to write to gps, an additional window opens and finds my gps and then I click on 'write'. that is it.

I understand that we wont be right on the spot, but we searched for the one by cycle park for a long time, we were behind the bushes and under them for approximately 30 feet on either side of where the gps said it was. The good news is that I did get a chance to pick up lots of trash that others left behind.

As for an outing or group in this area that is going, I havent found one, but I am nothing if not tenacious. I see here I have a challenge, and going out today again to meet that challenge!

If there is anyone out there in southwest Idaho that wants to take a newbie by the hand, Im here!

thank you everyone...

~jerilyn

January 3, 2009

You downloaded the coordinates straight to the gps. Do you understand the concept of coordinate format (HDDMM.mmm being the Groundspeak standard). Do you understand the concept of Datum (WGS84 is the Groundspeak standard). If you manually enter coords do they match the downloaded coords?

Not sure about the format. I just have my gps hooked to the laptop, and I click the button to write to gps, an additional window opens and finds my gps and then I click on 'write'. that is it.

I understand that we wont be right on the spot, but we searched for the one by cycle park for a long time, we were behind the bushes and under them for approximately 30 feet on either side of where the gps said it was. The good news is that I did get a chance to pick up lots of trash that others left behind.

As for an outing or group in this area that is going, I havent found one, but I am nothing if not tenacious. I see here I have a challenge, and going out today again to meet that challenge!

If there is anyone out there in southwest Idaho that wants to take a newbie by the hand, Im here!

thank you everyone...

~jerilyn

January 3, 2009

You downloaded the coordinates straight to the gps. Do you understand the concept of coordinate format (HDDMM.mmm being the Groundspeak standard). Do you understand the concept of Datum (WGS84 is the Groundspeak standard). If you manually enter coords do they match the downloaded coords?

Not sure about the format. I just have my gps hooked to the laptop, and I click the button to write to gps, an additional window opens and finds my gps and then I click on 'write'. that is it.

I understand that we wont be right on the spot, but we searched for the one by cycle park for a long time, we were behind the bushes and under them for approximately 30 feet on either side of where the gps said it was. The good news is that I did get a chance to pick up lots of trash that others left behind.

As for an outing or group in this area that is going, I havent found one, but I am nothing if not tenacious. I see here I have a challenge, and going out today again to meet that challenge!

If there is anyone out there in southwest Idaho that wants to take a newbie by the hand, Im here!

thank you everyone...

~jerilyn

14k · January 3, 2009

You downloaded the coordinates straight to the gps. Do you understand the concept of coordinate format (HDDMM.mmm being the Groundspeak standard). Do you understand the concept of Datum (WGS84 is the Groundspeak standard). If you manually enter coords do they match the downloaded coords?

Not sure about the format. I just have my gps hooked to the laptop, and I click the button to write to gps, an additional window opens and finds my gps and then I click on 'write'. that is it.

I understand that we wont be right on the spot, but we searched for the one by cycle park for a long time, we were behind the bushes and under them for approximately 30 feet on either side of where the gps said it was. The good news is that I did get a chance to pick up lots of trash that others left behind.

As for an outing or group in this area that is going, I havent found one, but I am nothing if not tenacious. I see here I have a challenge, and going out today again to meet that challenge!

If there is anyone out there in southwest Idaho that wants to take a newbie by the hand, Im here!

thank you everyone...

~jerilyn

A couple of things that have not been specifically mentioned...

You GPS (as well as many other models) has a setting which tells it whether to "Follow Road" or not. When searching for a cache make sure that it's *not* set to "Follow Road". Otherwise, when attempting to navigate to a waypoint it will attempt to send you closer to the road instead of the geocache.

On your GPS hit the Page button until you get to the Main Menu. Then tab down to the "Routing" icon and select enter. Under "Guidance Method" make sure that it's selected to "Off Road". Also on the Main Menu screen, select the "Map" icon, then make sure that "Lock on Road" is set to "Off". I also prefer to select the Orientation to "Track Up"

To make sure that you coordinate format is set up correctly go back to the Main Menu and select the "Units" icon. Under "Position Format" make sure it's set to "hddd mm.mmm" and that "Map Datum" is set to "WGS 84".

Other responses pointed out that the accuracy of the waypoint you're attempting to navigate to is likely going to be somewhere between 15-30'. It's also worth remembering that this is not a game to navigate to a specific location. You could follow where your GPS is telling you go and if reception is really good eventuall get very close to the coordinates specified for the geocache. However, at the end of the day what you're really attempting to accomplish is to find a geocache, not a location expressed using Lat/Long coordinates.

As you get "near" the waypoint entered into your GPS, start looking for a spot where you might hide a small container (or whatever size is specified on the page listing). "Near" in this case could be as far away as 100' or more.

Learn how to estimate distances. If you're walking down a trail and your GPS is telling you that the cache is a bit off to the right 100' away, look in that direction, estimate 100', and look for a potential object that might have been used to hide the cache, then head directly toward it. The alternative is that you might follow your GPS around for awhile, going one direction then another until you're standing in a spot where you GPS is telling you the cache is located. Meanwhile, 30' away there may be a large tree or stump, or some other object that was used to conceal the container.

The more time you spend out looking for caches the easier it will get, though be prepared to still get to a spot where you just can't find the cache. When that happens, log it as a DNF, and go onto the next one.

January 3, 2009

... I just have my gps hooked to the laptop, and I click the button to write to gps...

What GPS program do you have loaded on your laptop?

1.4k · January 3, 2009

Hi jerilyn

You have been given a lot of really good advice here! Try and check the coordinate format (hhh mm.mmm) and try and check the datum (WGS84), you want those to be correct.

You are really close to an upcoming event in your area

It is called TVCA Meeting - Ringing in the New Year and it is being held in Nampa.

Here is a link to the geocache listing page. It is GC1K7N5

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...0e-a0f12cb2702b

At these events you can meet other geocachers in the area and often the event will have some searches that are specific to the venue so you can go out with old hands and see how they find them. The event is on January 13 but don't give up, keep looking, it is fun looking for geocaches even if you don't find one every time you look and the benefits accrue whether you find them or not, you are outside having fun.

January 3, 2009

... I just have my gps hooked to the laptop, and I click the button to write to gps...

What GPS program do you have loaded on your laptop?

I dont, I have the Garmin stuff for the maps, but I hook up with the usb cable and the 'write' program from this site finds it. Good thing I dont have to do much special, I would be way more confused. I am running a MAC, not a pc, so it is really good about know what is hooked up and what to do with it.

~jerilyn

January 3, 2009

Hi jerilyn

You have been given a lot of really good advice here! Try and check the coordinate format (hhh mm.mmm) and try and check the datum (WGS84), you want those to be correct.

You are really close to an upcoming event in your area

It is called TVCA Meeting - Ringing in the New Year and it is being held in Nampa.

Here is a link to the geocache listing page. It is GC1K7N5

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...0e-a0f12cb2702b

At these events you can meet other geocachers in the area and often the event will have some searches that are specific to the venue so you can go out with old hands and see how they find them. The event is on January 13 but don't give up, keep looking, it is fun looking for geocaches even if you don't find one every time you look and the benefits accrue whether you find them or not, you are outside having fun.

You are so right! I have now booked the event in my phone and in my appt book, I am there, might even wear the bells! as for the format and datum thingy, well I checked those and they are correct.... yes, lots and lots of great advice here, makes it nice to know you arent out there without a life vest!

~jerilyn

22k · January 3, 2009

Keep in mind that if you are introducing people to the idea of geocaching you can hide your own caches for them to find. They don't have to be listed here.

When I am helping people on their first time out I like to know that the cache is in place. Then I can give them tips and tricks on search techniques without having to waste their time looking for it myself. A controlled environment will help me to teach them the things they will likely come across on their own.

Edited January 3, 2009 by BlueDeuce

January 3, 2009

Keep in mind that if you are introducing people to the idea of geocaching you can hide your own caches for them to find. They don't have to be listed here.

When I am helping people on their first time out I like to know that the cache is in place. Then I can give them tips and tricks on search techniques without having to waste their time looking for it myself. A controlled environment will help me to teach them the things they will likely come across on their own.

Now that is a great idea! didnt even think of it... thank you!!

2.7k · January 3, 2009

Hey, look who is celebrating their first two finds !!!

22k · January 4, 2009

Keep in mind that if you are introducing people to the idea of geocaching you can hide your own caches for them to find. They don't have to be listed here.

When I am helping people on their first time out I like to know that the cache is in place. Then I can give them tips and tricks on search techniques without having to waste their time looking for it myself. A controlled environment will help me to teach them the things they will likely come across on their own.

Now that is a great idea! didnt even think of it... thank you!!

I prefer to use this method for everyone, regardless.

Happy caching and congrats on your finds!

January 4, 2009

Keep in mind that if you are introducing people to the idea of geocaching you can hide your own caches for them to find. They don't have to be listed here.

When I am helping people on their first time out I like to know that the cache is in place. Then I can give them tips and tricks on search techniques without having to waste their time looking for it myself. A controlled environment will help me to teach them the things they will likely come across on their own.

Now that is a great idea! didnt even think of it... thank you!!

I prefer to use this method for everyone, regardless.

Happy caching and congrats on your finds!

Here are a couple of hints that might help.

Remember that your gps receiver will only tell you direction and feet to target when it is moving.

(You have to be walking). So it helps to come into the spot from several directions. Just move out twenty

feet and follow your arrow in again.

Second thing, out here in the west nature has it own way of piling up rocks. Cachers seem to have their

own way too and it is easy to spot. If that rock did not get there by gravity or being kicked by a cow,

then a cacher put it there.

Just a side note.. I think the sport is being hurt by too many "yawn" caches. If it does not denote something

special what is the point??

Ok soapbox closed

wingryder

January 4, 2009

My husband has the same gps and you and he sometimes has a few problems with the distance, but I have to say that he finds what he is looking for eventually....lol

I agree with the coming in from different angles....I also find if I stand still long enough the gps stops and will reset the distance.....and if I change the page button a few times it gets itself reset.

Congrats on your two finds in the previous linked thread

confused and wandering

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