What to do when cache location is obvious, not there, DNF, or replace and log find?

[+rhelt100]

I have done this twice. In both cases, I or someone with me knew the owner and was able to verify via phone call that we had the right spot and it was missing. I don't think it's right to do anything like this to someone else's hide without direct permission from the hider.

 

 

Having said that, I'll give you an example of where someone did this and replaced a tough cache that was not missing with a drive by micro. Several months ago I visited the location of a micro in a small city park. The description said something about a retrieval tool being hidden nearby. Well, when I got to GZ I found a film can sitting in the top of a pipe in plain sight. While signing the log, I noticed a paper clip on a string hanging hidden up in a nearby bush. Sure enough, when I unwound the paper clip and lowered it into the pipe, I heard a click and raised a magnetized container from the depths. The micro that had been placed there had more than 20 signatures on it so the previous 20 finders missed out on this unique hide.

[+wavector]

If the cache is missing = NO

Now that I'm posting this my inbox will be on fire tonight.

 

I do appreciate help when help is intended. Geocachers who replace log books are a case in point. If they cannot write in the log book that I have left because it has been damaged, it is wet or it is full then I do appreciate their help. When they replace the log book they are helping me.

If they do not find a logbook then they cannot help me by replacing it, if they have not found the log book it isn't damaged and may not need replacing at all. A geocacher who replaces an item that they do not find is not helping the cache owner, an exception to that may be pencils.

 

If a geocacher visited any one of my backcountry caches I expect them to be able to find it. I expect people enjoying the outdoors will just find them, I expect them to be found. If one is gone and a geocacher replaced it I would appreciate that and I expect they would say "I did not find your cache".

Only a serious geocacher would bother replacing another geocacher's cache and it would only happen when it would clearly help and the only log would be "I didn't find it so I am helping you out."

 

One Alberta geocacher hid a clever decoy cache and then was faced with a stream of replacement log books for a log book which was actually fine, he had to delete the logs because each successive finder of the decoy who logged "Found" and placed a log book in the decoy was having a negative impact on the next searcher, it really illustrated the principal of "help" very clearly.

It was placed close to the geocachers house making the constant trips easier. He got a lot of nice liitle log books I hope.

The decoy was clearly marked as a decoy, it was empty and was a lot of fun to take apart. People were having trouble getting it all back together.

An all together clever inventive and fun hide that really demonstrated to everyone how we can inadvertantly have a negative affect on the next searcher. In every case where someone helped the cache owner and helped themselves to a smiley the cache owner was entirely justified in protecting the next seekers fun by deleting the log. A clear reason could be given and no hard feelings developed but I am sure the cache owner was surprised at the fact that so many geocachers miss one of the most basic concepts in geocaching, smilies aren't worth anything, they are equal to exactly nothing.

 

Sure enough, when I unwound the paper clip and lowered it into the pipe, I heard a click and raised a magnetized container from the depths. The micro that had been placed there had more than 20 signatures on it so the previous 20 finders missed out on this unique hide.

 

I forgot to add that they are fun!

Edited January 3, 2009 by wavector

[Mr.Yuck]

 

this is the archived cache in question

Archived

 

 

A "lid" find deserves to be added to the widly popular Found it = Didn't Find it thread.

 

I'm sorta with Rockin' Roddy on this one. The OP (Yawppy) is getting hammered pretty good here! The link above the "archived" cache in question, has no record of him throwing down a film canister. He did however, log a find on a lid of an archived cache. Assuming it was even really the lid. But I think he's been shown what he's doing wrong going after all the archived caches.

[+Cuddlefish]

So here is what I did, I tend to carry several micros, (As do a few cachers) for an emergency hide, or in this case as a replacement. I really did not want to DNF a cache when it was obvious as to where it was placed. So I headed back to the cachemobile, grabbed a bottle cap micro, signed the log, and replaced it at the logical location. Got on the cell to log, and that is when I realized it had been temp dis-abled for over a month or two, so I logged a find, and placed the notice as to what I had placed in the GZ area, placed it on my watch list.

 

What an awesome idea! I'm going caching in future with a dozen or so micros. I am never going to log a DNF again!

 

/sarcasm

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Oh, this may surprise you, but many 'archived' caches are still in place. I know that this is hard to believe, but it does happen. I've even logged one.

 

Been there. Found a cache that got archived after I left on a trip. The owner assumed it was gone, based on the DNFs, and left it at that. It was a pretty cool cache, too. I've been wondering about it ever since, whether the owner ever picked it up, or if it's still sitting there. Too bad it's not close enough for me to check. Yeah, I logged it, even though it was archived.

[+Rockin Roddy]

So here is what I did, I tend to carry several micros, (As do a few cachers) for an emergency hide, or in this case as a replacement. I really did not want to DNF a cache when it was obvious as to where it was placed. So I headed back to the cachemobile, grabbed a bottle cap micro, signed the log, and replaced it at the logical location. Got on the cell to log, and that is when I realized it had been temp dis-abled for over a month or two, so I logged a find, and placed the notice as to what I had placed in the GZ area, placed it on my watch list.

 

What an awesome idea! I'm going caching in future with a dozen or so micros. I am never going to log a DNF again!

 

/sarcasm

 

I ah...rest my case!

 

Seeing the OP has admitted to making a mistake and is willing to rectify said mistake, what good did this post do?

[+Cuddlefish]

 

What an awesome idea! I'm going caching in future with a dozen or so micros. I am never going to log a DNF again!

 

/sarcasm

 

I ah...rest my case!

 

Seeing the OP has admitted to making a mistake and is willing to rectify said mistake, what good did this post do?

 

I could say the same about your post. Indeed, yours is worse. Now, having read enough to see the OP admit their mistake I could delete my post. However with your quoting mine, there is no way I can remove it completely now, can I?

 

Speck, meet thine eye.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Cuddlefish

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

What an awesome idea! I'm going caching in future with a dozen or so micros. I am never going to log a DNF again!

 

/sarcasm

 

I ah...rest my case!

 

Seeing the OP has admitted to making a mistake and is willing to rectify said mistake, what good did this post do?

 

I could say the same about your post. Indeed, yours is worse. Now, having read enough to see the OP admit their mistake I could delete my post. However with your quoting mine, there is no way I can remove it completely now, can I?

 

Speck, meet thine eye.

 

Had you not made it, you'd not need to remove it. My post stands, it is in response to a post I made before about cachers being less than friendly. I was neither unfriendly or sarcastic, I was pointing out an example of my comment.

 

So...how is mine worse? Because I quoted something you could have said friendlier?

[+DanOCan]

I really did not want to DNF a cache when it was obvious as to where it was placed.

 

If you don't find the cache it is a DNF. Replacing the cache and then logging s Find is kind of cheesy in my books. Not to mention the number of times I have walked away from a cache site convinced the cache just HAD to be missing only to have others find it right behind me. Replacing a cache in those situations would just lead to confusion and angst.

[+Parabola]

If the cache is missing = NO

Now that I'm posting this my inbox will be on fire tonight.

 

I do appreciate help when help is intended. Geocachers who replace log books are a case in point. If they cannot write in the log book that I have left because it has been damaged, it is wet or it is full then I do appreciate their help. When they replace the log book they are helping me.

If they do not find a logbook then they cannot help me by replacing it, if they have not found the log book it isn't damaged and may not need replacing at all. A geocacher who replaces an item that they do not find is not helping the cache owner, an exception to that may be pencils.

 

I used to have no problem's helping someone out by replacing leaky baggy's, putting in a new log book if the old one is trashed, putting in some more swag if the container is getting light...etc

 

But I've done this so much for people that they no longer preform any kind of maintenance on their caches. the only time I would fully replace the container is if I knew the owner and could verify it was truly gone and just not overlooking it. I would replace it to save them a trip out.

 

I guess I've just got burnt out on doing maintenance on other's caches. I have my own to maintain, which takes me about 3 day's if I have time to do them all in a row. Yes I've spent some vacation time to check on all my caches I could get too at the time of year. I have a couple that at certain time's of the year you can't get to them.

 

I feel I'm being taken advantage of and just decided this is no more. It's just happened too much and I see all these caches that I really don't think the owner has ever visited them after they where place. Which those I feel if a bunch of DNF log's start rolling in, and the owner won't get to them for month's then they should be archived by the owner.

 

But if you feel the cache is missing and can't verify it with the owner while on site then a DNF should be posted and a note saying I really think this one may be gone, the owner may want to check on it, is in order. I don't feel there's anything wrong with that as long as it's done in a polite manner. And not it's gone I'm not coming back here till the owner check's on it. That's kind of rude.

 

I was adding some stuff up this afternoon and figured that I've spent about 200 dollar's in stuff by helping out other's by fixing caches, and I don't feel this is appreciated anymore, it's just expected.

 

Last week I fixed four caches that I had found before, but was going to be in the area so I replaced three container's loaded with logbook's and the other, I replaced the log and took care of the leaky container. Now I could have had more fun by looking for some other's that I haven't done yet, but I choose to help other cacher's out. So I've just decided unless it's a close friend of mine's cache, I'll replace a ripped baggy and that's it.

 

Sorry to pull this off topic so far, that wasn't my intent just it was related and I wanted to show where I was coming from. And yes I got about 6 e-mail's tonight about my post. That's kind of what I mean by this is just expected and not appreciated. Heck, if they have time to look up my profile and read all my forum post's then they have time to preform maintenance on their own caches.

[+yawppy]

Well the big bad geocaching wolf is back! Not sure where to start. Yes, being a newbie I have made a few mistakes. Guess this all started when out with a cacher who believes in “tossing down” as I hear it is called.

 

Well I felt it was a wrong thing to do, and have rectified the situations to the best of my abilities. The caches were not archived, actually just “temp disabled”, my mistake, STILL does not make a difference. At the time it seemed like a good idea/ and bad one all the same.

 

Being ex-military I can handle quite a bit, and realize that the printed word can come across in a different way. I am no pulitzer award winning author myself. I am straight forward smart a**, and am not wishy washy, nor saddened because I did not receive the geocachers forums approval, nor he smiley.

 

As I stated I agreed with the DNF, and the 2 caches in question have been deleted, and an additional one that is posted (which for the record WAS not the cache in question) here in this string has also been deleted. I found the lid and a sopping wet log, but had no suitable containers, and the owner was on his way to fix it, or so was my understanding. So technically that should have still with stood this forums audit. (Auditors)

 

K I have only 226 finds, and still have not seen all the creative hides that we all can come up with... fine. The 2 that were in question, were 1/1 and were as obvious as white on rice. I did contact the owners, afterwards, KNOWING that the cache was missing, and was a micro, nothing more. I know when a cache has beaten me to a pulp, or when it is just not there.

 

Of course I replace the logs when they are wet, leave an extra pencil, or replenish swag, , and what I gather is just leave the lost caches alone. Got it. Unless the owner is contacted. Fine by me.

“so you're the guy who is doing that.”

No I m not the guy who is doing that. I am relativity still a newbie, whom made an error. Wanted to see the general consensus on the topic, and correct my mistakes. All the while trying to “Play” a fair game of hide n seek, by checking with the referee's.

 

He asked for opinions and received them. Now those who answered are accused of taking this too seriously? Or is it just those whose answers he didn't like?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I took them all in. Some well are better stated than other, and yes could do with a little less sarcasm, but hell, I can be just as sarcastic to the next poster, or even the next newbie that ventures into these alligator waters. It comes with the territory, and the "invisible factor", or better known as the internet shield. Fac to Face, probably would not have to worry about the appearance of my or the other posters text. Kapow!

IMO, you are developing some bad habits for a new cacher

Who are you to tell me of my caching habits? All I was looking for was whether it was acceptable, or not, learned it from a cacher whom will remain un-named, and just wanted to be sure. So before I DO develop some bad caching habits, figured I would see what the general consensous was, check with the referees of this sport. Hell if that is a bad habit as a cacher, hell just shoot me a toss my GPS'r into the grinder, or furnace, your choice, better yet just go to N 19 49.258, W 155 28.629 and I hope you enjoy the trip.

 

Sounds like it doesn't it. That's usually the way it is. When people ask for an opinion they really don't want opinions unless it's an opinion that supports what they do/think.

It's funny when someone says they aren't interested in the numbers but then they replace a cache to be able to log a find.

Again, numbers are not all that dear to me, yes it is fun to stay ahead of some fellow cachers, so they may have some importance. I do not need to log a smiley, I do need to seek and destroy a cache, but need to log a find, not really, and well really I do not even think the other cacher realizes this "competition", it is just my goal to stay ahead of him , but I will not "Fake" or drop a cache to do it, so bottom line nope numbers are not as dear to me as is the scenery. I have logged just as many DNF's as finds (Last count for all you auditors out there). One more time I have taken in evry1s “opinions”, whether well placed or in sarcasm, or just down right rude it may have been, that is life, and the world in which we all live. We all know why we go searching for those plastics, and tins.

 

(And TY for the hide hints, will have to check on a couple caches that have been eluding me, one or two have DNF logs by me, some do not, sometimes I do not log the DNF till my 2nd time around, just to give some of you all a little more fuel for the firepit!)

What an awesome idea! I'm going caching in future with a dozen or so micros. I am never going to log a DNF again!

Best for last. Perfect example of mis-construing plain text for some thing else, oops, sarcasm. Guess one does not realize that I have only done this twice, and one lid with sopping wet log.

 

Quote from OP” So here is what I did, I tend to carry several micros, (As do a few cachers) for an emergency hide, or in this case as a replacement.”

 

An emergency hide, you are out see a great locale, I pop in a micro till I can get a proper sized cache in. This time I used it as a replacement cache, which we all know is wrong and has been rectified.

 

NO LOG , NO FIND.. fine with me, was all I needed to hear, so now I can move on!

 

wishy washy, , wah he did not delete the smileys, wah he is not happy with our opinions, wah wah wah, boy oh boy,, wah wah, he is the guy, wah wah geolitter, .. well guess enough said, We soon will know whom we speak of. TY for the support, they know who they are, and I have gathered why my PQ's are not coming out clean, TY and no I am not soured by this experience, just knowing that the answers are there just need to weed through the B##@ S$%@ and pretty much for me I am sure this will not be the end for this topic nor will it be my last

 

Bring it on! Can not wait till this evening, should be quite an interesting read!

Ding Ding Round 2

Happy Caching

Edited January 4, 2009 by yawppy

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Hehe.

 

Man, I wrote a sarcastic post that mocked the panic someone had over caches not being in complete compliance with rules players don't have complete access to and someone went off on a little tangent about my post-to-find ratio being 4/1 (this made me some kind of a bad person, I think, I'm not sure). Mind you the person who was in such a panic that inspired the post seemed to have a mental breakdown and got the whole post closed. It was amazing. But some people on the forum are very young, some lack social skills and some are a little from both columns. That's just the internet, right?

 

I thought your post and your follow-up here is fine. People learn by asking questions.

[+Cuddlefish]

 

What an awesome idea! I'm going caching in future with a dozen or so micros. I am never going to log a DNF again!

Best for last. Perfect example of mis-construing plain text for some thing else, oops, sarcasm. Guess one does not realize that I have only done this twice, and one lid with sopping wet log.

nor will it be my last

 

 

Best for last. Yippee!

 

I did read the circumstances under which you replaced the micros. My comment was born more out of the frustration I feel whenever I've been unable to find even 1/1 micros (that people find the same day as me even!) My comment was intended to be humourous, but it may come across as rude. I apologise for that.

 

Happy caching!

[+wimseyguy]

There are tons of "numbers orientated" cachers who engage in the practice you mention. Doing this would be called by most "a throw down". But your chances of a numbers orientated cacher coming here and saying, "sure I throw down film canisters all the time" is almost zero. Someone around here has a signature line that says the forums are like talk radio, or something to that effect.

 

Yes, I'd say the archived caches should not be showing up on a fresh PQ.

 

You rang??

 

Been busy at work the past few days so I haven't had time to play in the sandbox, but I'll add another vote to the anti-throwdown/angel cache practice that some cachers prefer to logging a DNF.

D=did N=not F=Find

it doesn't mean "I'm a failure" (which is paraphrasing someone else's sig line.)

[Clan Riffster]

Yawppy, whilst you're reeling from round one, I'd just like to say, I thought it was way kewl of you to post your question, listen to the majority and take the appropriate steps. As a forum regular, I can say from experience that you'll still take a lot of hits on this, as many folks will only read the first few posts before posting a scathing rebuttal to your sins, without realizing that you've stepped up and done the right thing. Don't sweat it. You hit the nail squarely on the head when you opined that some folks get way to serious about this game. Just remember, it's usually not some simmering angst looking for a vent. Typically, it's just folks expressing themselves passionately, regarding an activity they love.

 

Happy caching!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Yawppy, whilst you're reeling from round one, I'd just like to say, I thought it was way kewl of you to post your question, listen to the majority and take the appropriate steps. As a forum regular, I can say from experience that you'll still take a lot of hits on this, as many folks will only read the first few posts before posting a scathing rebuttal to your sins, without realizing that you've stepped up and done the right thing. Don't sweat it. You hit the nail squarely on the head when you opined that some folks get way to serious about this game. Just remember, it's usually not some simmering angst looking for a vent. Typically, it's just folks expressing themselves passionately, regarding an activity they love.

 

Happy caching!

Well put, and I agree on every point!

[+niraD]

If you have found the cache previously, know that it is now missing, know the original hide style and can duplicate it, and know that you're doing an active cache owner a favor by replacing the missing cache, then go ahead.

 

I'm not a fan of throw-down caches. If you've never found it, then you don't really know that it's missing. I've found nicely hidden caches just inches from uninspired throw-down "replacement" caches.

[+pppingme]

Wrong, wrong, wrong! If a cache is misisng, the proper thing to do is to log DNF. You did not find it!

Yes. There are numbers people who will throw down a 'replacement' cache' after they've searched for twelve seconds, and then claim a find. Don't fall into that mindset. If you do not find a cache, log a DNF.

I completely agree with this.

 

I've lost track of how many times I've gone to find a cache that had a recent "DNF so I replaced" and found both the replacement with one or two log entries AND the original with log entries that date back to when the cache was placed.

 

One time I actually found three, the original (with logs back to placed date) and two replacements.

 

When I come across this, if I don't have any doubt about the original cache (usually going by log dates, placement date and comparing recent logs to my PDA), I always remove the extra's and log what I did online.

 

A repair (fixing a container, adding a log book, etc) without owner permission is one thing, a blind replacement without owner knowledge/permission just isn't right.

[Mr.Yuck]

There are tons of "numbers orientated" cachers who engage in the practice you mention. Doing this would be called by most "a throw down". But your chances of a numbers orientated cacher coming here and saying, "sure I throw down film canisters all the time" is almost zero. Someone around here has a signature line that says the forums are like talk radio, or something to that effect.

 

Yes, I'd say the archived caches should not be showing up on a fresh PQ.

 

You rang??

 

Been busy at work the past few days so I haven't had time to play in the sandbox, but I'll add another vote to the anti-throwdown/angel cache practice that some cachers prefer to logging a DNF.

D=did N=not F=Find

it doesn't mean "I'm a failure" (which is paraphrasing someone else's sig line.)

 

For a minute, I thought you meant you were a "numbers orientated cacher" who was going to come in and defend the practice of throwing down film canisters. But yes, that's the sig line I was talking about.

 

You know, I really think many, if not most, throwdowners really feel they're doing a good deed. Or maybe that's just the ones I've seen in my area; I've never personally seen where a 5,000 find cacher has thrown down a micro for a cache I've found myself.

[BlueDamsel]

If the cache is missing = NO

Now that I'm posting this my inbox will be on fire tonight.

 

I do appreciate help when help is intended. Geocachers who replace log books are a case in point. If they cannot write in the log book that I have left because it has been damaged, it is wet or it is full then I do appreciate their help. When they replace the log book they are helping me.

If they do not find a logbook then they cannot help me by replacing it, if they have not found the log book it isn't damaged and may not need replacing at all. A geocacher who replaces an item that they do not find is not helping the cache owner, an exception to that may be pencils.

 

I used to have no problem's helping someone out by replacing leaky baggy's, putting in a new log book if the old one is trashed, putting in some more swag if the container is getting light...etc

 

But I've done this so much for people that they no longer preform any kind of maintenance on their caches. the only time I would fully replace the container is if I knew the owner and could verify it was truly gone and just not overlooking it. I would replace it to save them a trip out.

 

I guess I've just got burnt out on doing maintenance on other's caches. I have my own to maintain, which takes me about 3 day's if I have time to do them all in a row. Yes I've spent some vacation time to check on all my caches I could get too at the time of year. I have a couple that at certain time's of the year you can't get to them.

 

I feel I'm being taken advantage of and just decided this is no more. It's just happened too much and I see all these caches that I really don't think the owner has ever visited them after they where place. Which those I feel if a bunch of DNF log's start rolling in, and the owner won't get to them for month's then they should be archived by the owner.

 

But if you feel the cache is missing and can't verify it with the owner while on site then a DNF should be posted and a note saying I really think this one may be gone, the owner may want to check on it, is in order. I don't feel there's anything wrong with that as long as it's done in a polite manner. And not it's gone I'm not coming back here till the owner check's on it. That's kind of rude.

 

I was adding some stuff up this afternoon and figured that I've spent about 200 dollar's in stuff by helping out other's by fixing caches, and I don't feel this is appreciated anymore, it's just expected.

 

Last week I fixed four caches that I had found before, but was going to be in the area so I replaced three container's loaded with logbook's and the other, I replaced the log and took care of the leaky container. Now I could have had more fun by looking for some other's that I haven't done yet, but I choose to help other cacher's out. So I've just decided unless it's a close friend of mine's cache, I'll replace a ripped baggy and that's it.

 

Sorry to pull this off topic so far, that wasn't my intent just it was related and I wanted to show where I was coming from. And yes I got about 6 e-mail's tonight about my post. That's kind of what I mean by this is just expected and not appreciated. Heck, if they have time to look up my profile and read all my forum post's then they have time to preform maintenance on their own caches.

 

We have some people around here that have each put out a hundred-plus caches apiece. Some of these owners are really good at putting out well thought-out, nicely maintained caches... others... not so good... they throw out a boatload of uninspired nanos just to do them, never check on them, and never bother to fix the problems if notified.

 

In my opinion, if you can't take proper care of the caches you place, stop placing them until you fix the existing ones you own, or archive them. I don't mind the occasional repair or replacing a log book that's full, but finders should not have the main responsibility for cache maintenance.

[+BlueDeuce]

We have some people around here that have each put out a hundred-plus caches apiece. Some of these owners are really good at putting out well thought-out, nicely maintained caches... others... not so good... they throw out a boatload of uninspired nanos just to do them, never check on them, and never bother to fix the problems if notified.

 

In my opinion, if you can't take proper care of the caches you place, stop placing them until you fix the existing ones you own, or archive them. I don't mind the occasional repair or replacing a log book that's full, but finders should not have the main responsibility for cache maintenance.

 

Amen.

[+niraD]

You know, I really think many, if not most, throwdowners really feel they're doing a good deed.

Yep. I'm pretty sure they think they're contributing something useful.

 

A while back I DNFed a regular-size cache that turned out to have been missing for a while. It had been hidden by a newbie who found a few, hid one, and then dropped out. While searching, I found a film canister with a scrap of paper in it. At the time, I thought it looked unusually similar to a typical micro-cache, but clearly it wasn't the regular-size cache that I was looking for.

 

Later, when I finally read the previous logs, I realized that the film canister was a throw-down cache (although I hadn't learned that term yet). I emailed the previous "finder" who had "replaced" the missing cache with the film canister. He insisted that it was better to have "something to find" than for the missing, orphaned cache to be archived.

[+tozainamboku]

He insisted that it was better to have "something to find" than for the missing, orphaned cache to be archived.

Yep they don't realize that despite the guidelines caches are not permanent - nor are cache owners. Most caches will eventually go missing (or get destroyed by fire, flood, or bomb squad). By that time the original cache owner may no longer be playing the game, or may just not be interested in maintaining that old cache anymore. When the cache is gone it may be better to let it die. Let new cachers have at it to hide a new cache in the area. Granted the problem is that until there are several DNFs or Needs Maintenance logged with no owner response it may not be appropriate to log an SBA. The cache still shows up as active and people will continue to look for it. Throwdowners may feel that leaving something for others so they won't have a DNF is good. Until cachers realize that DNF is not a sign of failure but simply a report of the status of their hunt on that day, we will have people throwing down replacement caches so that not only themselves, but cachers who follow, will have something to find.

[+TrailGators]

We have some people around here that have each put out a hundred-plus caches apiece. Some of these owners are really good at putting out well thought-out, nicely maintained caches... others... not so good... they throw out a boatload of uninspired nanos just to do them, never check on them, and never bother to fix the problems if notified.

 

In my opinion, if you can't take proper care of the caches you place, stop placing them until you fix the existing ones you own, or archive them. I don't mind the occasional repair or replacing a log book that's full, but finders should not have the main responsibility for cache maintenance.

 

Amen.

Ditto and this is another reason why I wish we had this feature...

[+Wadcutter]

If you have found the cache previously, know that it is now missing, know the original hide style and can duplicate it, and know that you're doing an active cache owner a favor by replacing the missing cache, then go ahead.

The problem with doing that is you may know where the cache was hidden when you found it but that doesn't mean the next cacher replaced in the same location where it was when you were there. Now there are 2 caches placed at the same location.

[+Vater_Araignee]

If you have found the cache previously, know that it is now missing, know the original hide style and can duplicate it, and know that you're doing an active cache owner a favor by replacing the missing cache, then go ahead.

The problem with doing that is you may know where the cache was hidden when you found it but that doesn't mean the next cacher replaced in the same location where it was when you were there. Now there are 2 caches placed at the same location.

GC12XWC is a good example of a cache being moved. The location of the container when I found it was not the location Airwolf intended, I didn't have a clue where it belonged so put it in the spot I found it. Know what happened? Everyone DNFed it until lorriebird adopted it and made the new hide difficult to relocate. Based on what I know about the history of this cache, I believe that if Slimshady11 had done a throw down, then we wouldn't have this cache anymore period end of quote.

 

Throw downs are simply a bad idea, you could be the best seeker in the world but that doesn't mean there are not hundreds thousands of CO's who are better at hiding then you are at finding.

[+niraD]

If you have found the cache previously, know that it is now missing, know the original hide style and can duplicate it, and know that you're doing an active cache owner a favor by replacing the missing cache, then go ahead.

The problem with doing that is you may know where the cache was hidden when you found it but that doesn't mean the next cacher replaced in the same location where it was when you were there. Now there are 2 caches placed at the same location.

Well, yes. But I've also seen cache owners leave duplicate caches after the original migrated.

 

I figure that someone who meets all the conditions, including the last one (Do you know that the owner isn't ready to archive the missing cache?), is probably helping. But most of the constructive non-owner replacements I've seen have involved previous communication/planning between the owner and the person replacing the cache.

[Tenspot]

I don't care if you are in the middle of a desert with nothing but a doop bucket in front of you that says "the cache is in here".

 

No cache, no find.

 

+1

[+Renegade Knight]

... replaced it at the logical location. ...

 

I logged both as finds, I figure if finders can replace a log book, w\can we not replace an obvious hide? Or am I in the wrong....

 

An obvious hide is. "The cache is inside the orange rock hidden on top of the grass in the middle of the field, with a 20' american flag on a pole planted 6" from the cache" or "The school sign yellow/green ammo can is in the middle of the parking lot on a pedistal, lighted with LED's with 8' arros pointing at it from all directions".

 

So when you find a real "obvious" cache you will at least log the DNF knowing it wasn't there to find.

 

Replacing the cache is best done with the owners blessing.

[+Rockin Roddy]

... replaced it at the logical location. ...

 

I logged both as finds, I figure if finders can replace a log book, w\can we not replace an obvious hide? Or am I in the wrong....

 

An obvious hide is. "The cache is inside the orange rock hidden on top of the grass in the middle of the field, with a 20' american flag on a pole planted 6" from the cache" or "The school sign yellow/green ammo can is in the middle of the parking lot on a pedistal, lighted with LED's with 8' arros pointing at it from all directions".

 

So when you find a real "obvious" cache you will at least log the DNF knowing it wasn't there to find.

 

Replacing the cache is best done with the owners blessing.

 

I agree. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to move my caches back to their "obvious" hiding locations. While I appreciate someone trying to help, sometimes help is merely letting me know of the problem!!

 

I remember the really simple 1/1 hide at the entrance of the fairgrounds at MWGB last year, we couldn't find it. When we went back to search more, we found 3. Seems 2 others couldn't find it either??

[+buttaskotch]

I feel bad for you Yawppy, lots of people in this community like to play their way; and no two ways are the same. I applaud you for asking about what the general consensus was on what you did and you took it like a man.

I don't like the whole replacement cache thing. But I can say that I have been in the presence of one that was done. (It was done after search for 40 minutes with 3 cachers eyes, and then going on my blackberry and seeing 5 DNFs and the CO not logging into GC.com for nearly a year). Was it not cool? probably, but at that point the CO obviously didn't care either.

Today, I was with a party of 15 that searched for a cache that hadn't been maintained in a while (the CO now lives on the left coast), all 15 of us couldn't find it. It will suck to log that DNF, bring forth the NM attribute and have nothing done for a few weeks, becasue more than liekly that CO will not respond or will with an archive. Since thats the easy way to go.

On another cache, I had to toss a drenched log in a soaked baggy in a mint container. Will the CO really care or say ty, more than likely not. but my 15 friends and I got to log the cache on our FUN hike through NY and in the end, that's all that really matters.

Just have fun.