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:laughing: I live up in Nor-Cal right now and recently had to remove a cache that I placed because I put it in Point Reyes National Park. I had no problem with that after rereading the rules. Now I'm in my home town in So-Cal and while looking for a cache dense area to go caching, to my surprise I found one in a National Park here in So-Cal, hundreds of them and placed within the year!

 

Now, I'm not trying to stir the pot but I really need to know if there is some loophole that I don't know about to see if I can still place my cache in Point Reyes. :anitongue:

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Sorry, wrong link. Here is the one I meant to send, Link .

 

It states, "Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks."

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...It states, "Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks."

Not necessarily literally true; I have found geocaches in National Parks over the years, and each had been in place for years, and apparently the local NPS admins were fully aware of them.

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There is a tremendous difference between National Parks (part of the Department of the Interior) and National Forests (part of the Department of Agriculture). Each Federal agency has its own geocaching policy. The National Park Service only allows caches on an exception basis, and Geocaching.com will insist on seeing clear evidence of permission. This policy is dictated at the national level. In contrast, National Forests are allowed to formulate and administer their geocaching policies at the local level. Many Forests have formal policies which are generally supportive of our sport; some prohibit caches in designated Wilderness areas; some are passive about regulating caches and are content to let people hide caches that comply with the listing site's guidelines.

 

Now that you know that entirely different government agencies are involved, I trust this resolves your confusion and perceptions of inconsistency.

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Sorry, wrong link. Here is the one I meant to send, Link .

 

It states, "Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks."

It would be more accurate for them to say. "You will be in violation of our intrepreation of federal regulation"

 

In other guidance the NPS has left the decision in the hands of the managers of each park. They can and once in a blue moon do allow caches.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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...Now that you know that entirely different government agencies are involved, I trust this resolves your confusion and perceptions of inconsistency.

Locally the BLM and NPS jointly manage the Crates of the Moon National Landmark (I forget the exact designation of the expanded area) The orginal park is all NPS. The extended areas lava flows are NPS. The areas that are not lava flows are BLM. Thats the gist of how they have deliniated their joint managment.

 

I've spoken to the BLM about a cache in their areas and got advice on where to place it. Since then I've never had a rig I trust enough to go on some of the trails that it would take to get there. Life is a bummer sometimes.

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There is a tremendous difference between National Parks (part of the Department of the Interior) and National Forests (part of the Department of Agriculture). Each Federal agency has its own geocaching policy. The National Park Service only allows caches on an exception basis, and Geocaching.com will insist on seeing clear evidence of permission. This policy is dictated at the national level. In contrast, National Forests are allowed to formulate and administer their geocaching policies at the local level. Many Forests have formal policies which are generally supportive of our sport; some prohibit caches in designated Wilderness areas; some are passive about regulating caches and are content to let people hide caches that comply with the listing site's guidelines.

 

Now that you know that entirely different government agencies are involved, I trust this resolves your confusion and perceptions of inconsistency.

 

Since you're on the topic....

 

I'm surprised to find no caches around Muir Woods. Maybe you could place one outside the park in the parking lot. Just a thought.

 

If you do, it will definitely be on my list of caches to find ;)

 

Thanks for all the good info and support. I knew there had to be something I wasn't getting!

 

I travel to the Muir Woods often and will study the area well next time to find the perfect location.

 

Even though I can't place my cache in Point Reyes National Park I would like to make mention of the location still though for visits. It was the Historic Life Saving Station Grave Yard. The Life Saving service was the predecesour to the United States Coast Guard, which is my job. Just keep heading down Sir Francis Drake Blvd until you see the sign which is about 20 minutes past the Bear Valley Ranger Station.

 

Thnx again!

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If you plan on leaving a cache on any government land it is a good practice to call or e-mail the agency responsible in advance. Not only will you avoid having your cache removed, but they might have recommended areas to place your cache. They will definely tell you about any restricted areas.

 

To Lazy Sunbathers: If you attended The USCGA, then Go Norwich, Beat Coast Guard!

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Since you're on the topic....

 

I'm surprised to find no caches around Muir Woods. Maybe you could place one outside the park in the parking lot. Just a thought.

 

If you do, it will definitely be on my list of caches to find :rolleyes:

 

Here you go... one of my caches. Just 500ft out of Muir Woods and 1 mile from the entrance if you want to take a level trail all the way:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...5b-5085497d17f4

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If you plan on leaving a cache on any government land it is a good practice to call or e-mail the agency responsible in advance. Not only will you avoid having your cache removed, but they might have recommended areas to place your cache. They will definely tell you about any restricted areas.

 

To Lazy Sunbathers: If you attended The USCGA, then Go Norwich, Beat Coast Guard!

 

I didn't go to the CGA! I decided to work for a living instead. E-6 now and have been trying for the last four years to move up! Besides you know the Coast Guards going to lose anyway! Fair Winds and Following Seas!

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The National Park Service only allows caches on an exception basis, and Geocaching.com will insist on seeing clear evidence of permission. This policy is dictated at the national level.

 

This is a sock puppet account because I don't want my location known.

 

I live in an area near a National Park. There were many caches in the park and all but one were archived awhile ago.

 

Now there is one cache there, an old one, and one almost certainly placed without permission.

 

I'd love to work with the Park Rangers to get permission to place a cache inside the park but I can't. I fear that if I do they'll notice the cache that is there and ask to have it removed.

 

Then the whole community loses out.

 

This is a lose-lose situation. I don't see a way out of it.

 

Oh well... I get to vent on the the forums, that's worth something, right?

 

CC007

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Geeze! Once again, I thought for a second there that Vinny & Sue Team was back! There are a great many threads here that are probably helpful, but that doesn't mean they should be bumped. All that will do it to bring it to the surface for a few short hours, anyway.

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:lol: I live up in Nor-Cal right now and recently had to remove a cache that I placed because I put it in Point Reyes National Park. I had no problem with that after rereading the rules. Now I'm in my home town in So-Cal and while looking for a cache dense area to go caching, to my surprise I found one in a National Park here in So-Cal, hundreds of them and placed within the year!

 

Now, I'm not trying to stir the pot but I really need to know if there is some loophole that I don't know about to see if I can still place my cache in Point Reyes. :)

 

Hadn't heard about that. Which park is it anyway?

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:lol: I live up in Nor-Cal right now and recently had to remove a cache that I placed because I put it in Point Reyes National Park.

Not to be a stickler (Okay. I am...) Point Reyes is a National Seashore (administered by NPS.) It is not a National Park. Muir Woods is a National Monument (administered by NPS.) Natinal Forests are administred by the Department of Agriculture. An entirely different entity.

There was a spectacular geocide a few years back by someone who hid a cache in a National Hsitoric Landmark. Generally, National Historic Landmarks are not administred by NPS. This one, however, is administered by the local National Recreation Area (which is administered by NPS.) And, therefore, was not permitted without special permissin.

 

Now, I'm not trying to stir the pot but I really need to know if there is some loophole that I don't know about to see if I can still place my cache in Point Reyes. :)

The loophole is to request special permission from the administrator of the particular NPS area. (That is mentioned elsewhere in this thread.) And that is the only loophole! Permission must be written, and given to the reviewer.

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The National Park Service only allows caches on an exception basis, and Geocaching.com will insist on seeing clear evidence of permission. This policy is dictated at the national level.

 

This is a sock puppet account because I don't want my location known.

 

I live in an area near a National Park. There were many caches in the park and all but one were archived awhile ago.

 

Now there is one cache there, an old one, and one almost certainly placed without permission.

 

I'd love to work with the Park Rangers to get permission to place a cache inside the park but I can't. I fear that if I do they'll notice the cache that is there and ask to have it removed.

 

Then the whole community loses out.

 

This is a lose-lose situation. I don't see a way out of it.

 

Oh well... I get to vent on the the forums, that's worth something, right?

 

CC007

 

This is a good point, and one I had to deal with recently, although it's in a state park. I spoke with the director of this park about placing an earthcache in the park. He was pretty friendly about it, and even went on GC.com to look at what everything was all about.

 

However, he was REALLY angry to find out (through browsing GC.com) that there are four other traditional caches in the park, including one that's been there since 2001, and he at first threatened to pull them all.

 

I'm going to go out there in August when I get back from travelling and I think I can educate him enough about geocaching to allow the caches to remain.

 

He had me talk to his boss, who is some director of State Parks for Oregon, who told me that I was the second geocacher since he has worked for the parks since 2002 who has called to ask permission for placement. Interesting...

 

At this point there is a positive outcome that will happen, but I definitely know that when in doubt, ASK, and have good materials on hand to educate land managers and directors about geocaching, because a lot of them are under the impression that it is littering.

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