+The Lazy Sunbathers Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I live up in Nor-Cal right now and recently had to remove a cache that I placed because I put it in Point Reyes National Park. I had no problem with that after rereading the rules. Now I'm in my home town in So-Cal and while looking for a cache dense area to go caching, to my surprise I found one in a National Park here in So-Cal, hundreds of them and placed within the year! Now, I'm not trying to stir the pot but I really need to know if there is some loophole that I don't know about to see if I can still place my cache in Point Reyes. Quote Link to comment
ao318 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Click on this link, Park Geocaching Guidelines Edited December 30, 2008 by ao318 Quote Link to comment
+hydnsek Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Click on this link, Park Geocaching Guidelines Maybe I missed something, but the OP asked about national parks, and you provided a link to CA state parks guidelines. Quote Link to comment
ao318 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Sorry, wrong link. Here is the one I meant to send, Link . It states, "Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks." Quote Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) The latest NPS rules on caching allow the local park management to make the decision about if caches are allowed or not. A link to one of the caches you are questioning might help. Edited December 30, 2008 by Too Tall John Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 ...It states, "Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks." Not necessarily literally true; I have found geocaches in National Parks over the years, and each had been in place for years, and apparently the local NPS admins were fully aware of them. Quote Link to comment
+The Lazy Sunbathers Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ff-41c432f04c64 or just look up Big Bear, CA I did notice that it is in a National Forest but I don't think there's a difference? Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ff-41c432f04c64 or just look up Big Bear, CA I did notice that it is in a National Forest but I don't think there's a difference? It makes all the difference. The National Forest Service has nothing to do with the National Park Service. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 There is a tremendous difference between National Parks (part of the Department of the Interior) and National Forests (part of the Department of Agriculture). Each Federal agency has its own geocaching policy. The National Park Service only allows caches on an exception basis, and Geocaching.com will insist on seeing clear evidence of permission. This policy is dictated at the national level. In contrast, National Forests are allowed to formulate and administer their geocaching policies at the local level. Many Forests have formal policies which are generally supportive of our sport; some prohibit caches in designated Wilderness areas; some are passive about regulating caches and are content to let people hide caches that comply with the listing site's guidelines. Now that you know that entirely different government agencies are involved, I trust this resolves your confusion and perceptions of inconsistency. Quote Link to comment
+Smokey Bear Collector Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Since you're on the topic.... I'm surprised to find no caches around Muir Woods. Maybe you could place one outside the park in the parking lot. Just a thought. If you do, it will definitely be on my list of caches to find Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Sorry, wrong link. Here is the one I meant to send, Link . It states, "Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks." It would be more accurate for them to say. "You will be in violation of our intrepreation of federal regulation" In other guidance the NPS has left the decision in the hands of the managers of each park. They can and once in a blue moon do allow caches. Edited December 30, 2008 by Renegade Knight Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 ...Now that you know that entirely different government agencies are involved, I trust this resolves your confusion and perceptions of inconsistency. Locally the BLM and NPS jointly manage the Crates of the Moon National Landmark (I forget the exact designation of the expanded area) The orginal park is all NPS. The extended areas lava flows are NPS. The areas that are not lava flows are BLM. Thats the gist of how they have deliniated their joint managment. I've spoken to the BLM about a cache in their areas and got advice on where to place it. Since then I've never had a rig I trust enough to go on some of the trails that it would take to get there. Life is a bummer sometimes. Quote Link to comment
+J-Way Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I'm surprised to find no caches around Muir Woods. Maybe you could place one outside the park in the parking lot. Just a thought. If you do, it will definitely be on my list of caches to find But only if it has an Ewok theme Quote Link to comment
+The Lazy Sunbathers Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 There is a tremendous difference between National Parks (part of the Department of the Interior) and National Forests (part of the Department of Agriculture). Each Federal agency has its own geocaching policy. The National Park Service only allows caches on an exception basis, and Geocaching.com will insist on seeing clear evidence of permission. This policy is dictated at the national level. In contrast, National Forests are allowed to formulate and administer their geocaching policies at the local level. Many Forests have formal policies which are generally supportive of our sport; some prohibit caches in designated Wilderness areas; some are passive about regulating caches and are content to let people hide caches that comply with the listing site's guidelines. Now that you know that entirely different government agencies are involved, I trust this resolves your confusion and perceptions of inconsistency. Since you're on the topic.... I'm surprised to find no caches around Muir Woods. Maybe you could place one outside the park in the parking lot. Just a thought. If you do, it will definitely be on my list of caches to find Thanks for all the good info and support. I knew there had to be something I wasn't getting! I travel to the Muir Woods often and will study the area well next time to find the perfect location. Even though I can't place my cache in Point Reyes National Park I would like to make mention of the location still though for visits. It was the Historic Life Saving Station Grave Yard. The Life Saving service was the predecesour to the United States Coast Guard, which is my job. Just keep heading down Sir Francis Drake Blvd until you see the sign which is about 20 minutes past the Bear Valley Ranger Station. Thnx again! Quote Link to comment
+WeeWillie Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 If you plan on leaving a cache on any government land it is a good practice to call or e-mail the agency responsible in advance. Not only will you avoid having your cache removed, but they might have recommended areas to place your cache. They will definely tell you about any restricted areas. To Lazy Sunbathers: If you attended The USCGA, then Go Norwich, Beat Coast Guard! Quote Link to comment
sdarken Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Since you're on the topic.... I'm surprised to find no caches around Muir Woods. Maybe you could place one outside the park in the parking lot. Just a thought. If you do, it will definitely be on my list of caches to find Here you go... one of my caches. Just 500ft out of Muir Woods and 1 mile from the entrance if you want to take a level trail all the way: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...5b-5085497d17f4 Quote Link to comment
+The Lazy Sunbathers Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 If you plan on leaving a cache on any government land it is a good practice to call or e-mail the agency responsible in advance. Not only will you avoid having your cache removed, but they might have recommended areas to place your cache. They will definely tell you about any restricted areas. To Lazy Sunbathers: If you attended The USCGA, then Go Norwich, Beat Coast Guard! I didn't go to the CGA! I decided to work for a living instead. E-6 now and have been trying for the last four years to move up! Besides you know the Coast Guards going to lose anyway! Fair Winds and Following Seas! Quote Link to comment
CacheCop007 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 The National Park Service only allows caches on an exception basis, and Geocaching.com will insist on seeing clear evidence of permission. This policy is dictated at the national level. This is a sock puppet account because I don't want my location known. I live in an area near a National Park. There were many caches in the park and all but one were archived awhile ago. Now there is one cache there, an old one, and one almost certainly placed without permission. I'd love to work with the Park Rangers to get permission to place a cache inside the park but I can't. I fear that if I do they'll notice the cache that is there and ask to have it removed. Then the whole community loses out. This is a lose-lose situation. I don't see a way out of it. Oh well... I get to vent on the the forums, that's worth something, right? CC007 Quote Link to comment
sdarken Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 The National Park Service revised their rules last year and cracked the door (just a little) to Geocaching on NPS lands if the local superintendant approves it. Here's a link to the policy: http://www.nps.gov/gis/gps/GPSguidance.pdf There was a thread on these forums discussing the policy but I dont have a link handy. Quote Link to comment
calgriz Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 this is helpful and needs to be better published so new GCers can find the true facts about GCing in National parks, not national forests. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 this is helpful and needs to be better published so new GCers can find the true facts about GCing in National parks, not national forests. They can read the guidelines. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Geeze! Once again, I thought for a second there that Vinny & Sue Team was back! There are a great many threads here that are probably helpful, but that doesn't mean they should be bumped. All that will do it to bring it to the surface for a few short hours, anyway. Quote Link to comment
+Sioneva Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Geeze! Once again, I thought for a second there that Vinny & Sue Team was back! So did I! We can only wish. Quote Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I live up in Nor-Cal right now and recently had to remove a cache that I placed because I put it in Point Reyes National Park. I had no problem with that after rereading the rules. Now I'm in my home town in So-Cal and while looking for a cache dense area to go caching, to my surprise I found one in a National Park here in So-Cal, hundreds of them and placed within the year! Now, I'm not trying to stir the pot but I really need to know if there is some loophole that I don't know about to see if I can still place my cache in Point Reyes. Hadn't heard about that. Which park is it anyway? Quote Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 The National Park Service revised their rules last year and cracked the door (just a little) to Geocaching on NPS lands if the local superintendant approves it. Here's a link to the policy: http://www.nps.gov/gis/gps/GPSguidance.pdf There was a thread on these forums discussing the policy but I dont have a link handy. You might want to verify that link. Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I live up in Nor-Cal right now and recently had to remove a cache that I placed because I put it in Point Reyes National Park. Not to be a stickler (Okay. I am...) Point Reyes is a National Seashore (administered by NPS.) It is not a National Park. Muir Woods is a National Monument (administered by NPS.) Natinal Forests are administred by the Department of Agriculture. An entirely different entity. There was a spectacular geocide a few years back by someone who hid a cache in a National Hsitoric Landmark. Generally, National Historic Landmarks are not administred by NPS. This one, however, is administered by the local National Recreation Area (which is administered by NPS.) And, therefore, was not permitted without special permissin. Now, I'm not trying to stir the pot but I really need to know if there is some loophole that I don't know about to see if I can still place my cache in Point Reyes. The loophole is to request special permission from the administrator of the particular NPS area. (That is mentioned elsewhere in this thread.) And that is the only loophole! Permission must be written, and given to the reviewer. Quote Link to comment
sdarken Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 The National Park Service revised their rules last year and cracked the door (just a little) to Geocaching on NPS lands if the local superintendant approves it. Here's a link to the policy: http://www.nps.gov/gis/gps/GPSguidance.pdf You might want to verify that link. It was correct when I posted in in ***2008**. Here is the new link. Quote Link to comment
+roziecakes Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 The National Park Service only allows caches on an exception basis, and Geocaching.com will insist on seeing clear evidence of permission. This policy is dictated at the national level. This is a sock puppet account because I don't want my location known. I live in an area near a National Park. There were many caches in the park and all but one were archived awhile ago. Now there is one cache there, an old one, and one almost certainly placed without permission. I'd love to work with the Park Rangers to get permission to place a cache inside the park but I can't. I fear that if I do they'll notice the cache that is there and ask to have it removed. Then the whole community loses out. This is a lose-lose situation. I don't see a way out of it. Oh well... I get to vent on the the forums, that's worth something, right? CC007 This is a good point, and one I had to deal with recently, although it's in a state park. I spoke with the director of this park about placing an earthcache in the park. He was pretty friendly about it, and even went on GC.com to look at what everything was all about. However, he was REALLY angry to find out (through browsing GC.com) that there are four other traditional caches in the park, including one that's been there since 2001, and he at first threatened to pull them all. I'm going to go out there in August when I get back from travelling and I think I can educate him enough about geocaching to allow the caches to remain. He had me talk to his boss, who is some director of State Parks for Oregon, who told me that I was the second geocacher since he has worked for the parks since 2002 who has called to ask permission for placement. Interesting... At this point there is a positive outcome that will happen, but I definitely know that when in doubt, ASK, and have good materials on hand to educate land managers and directors about geocaching, because a lot of them are under the impression that it is littering. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.