1st hide but need some advice

[sdclavijo]

I'm ready to hide my first cache, but I have a question first about places you can hide them. I've read all of the literature on this site about getting permission from private property owners, but I'm not too clear on what would constitute private property. I've found quite a few caches in areas behind strip malls; does anyone know if hiding in such a location requires permission from anyone? They are usually set at least 500 feet or so behind the stores, so I don't imagine the land is on any of the stores' property. Also, what about HOA's (home owners associations)? In my area there are many small neighborhood parks that would be great for hiding caches, but would I need to advise the HOA first? Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[+flask]

oh, boy. you have just stumbled on the Great Can Of Worms and i'm sure someone will link you to previous raging debates on this very topic.

 

the bottom line will be that adequate permission does not necessarily have to be express, but that adequate permission is not always present.

 

you'll have to exercise good judgement.

 

caches should not be placed where they are unwelcome. ideally landowners welcome caches, but we all know it isn't the case.

 

often a landowner or land manager prefers not to be asked about a cache; it's too much bother or they'd rather not have to put it through channels, or they don't want to go on record as having approved it in case something changes later and they want to disallow caches without having to rescind permission.

 

often a landowner grants blanket permissions.

 

often a landowner grants permissions but with conditions.

 

often a landowner doesn't care.

 

often a landowner DOES care, and doesn't like it.

 

be careful and do your best to assess whether or not a cache would cause alarm or annoyance, and try to get a feel for what the locally accepted practice is. other cachers will be a treasure trove of information.

[Maine Family]

I'm ready to hide my first cache, but I have a question first about places you can hide them. I've read all of the literature on this site about getting permission from private property owners, but I'm not too clear on what would constitute private property. I've found quite a few caches in areas behind strip malls; does anyone know if hiding in such a location requires permission from anyone? They are usually set at least 500 feet or so behind the stores, so I don't imagine the land is on any of the stores' property. Also, what about HOA's (home owners associations)? In my area there are many small neighborhood parks that would be great for hiding caches, but would I need to advise the HOA first? Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!

You need permission any where you place the cache. This is what is on the website. Did you seek permission from the land owner or manager? If you place a cache on private land, you must ask permission before hiding your cache. If you place it on public lands, contact the land manager to find out about any rules or restrictions. Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks. Small parks here are usually owned by the town so we have to ask the town for permission.

[+jeffbouldin]

First of all, Welcome to the obsession......I mean hobby! Ignore most of the over opinionated people on here.

 

Every area has different policies and issues. Many people don't ask to place caches in areas frequented by the general public, such as Wal-Mart parking lots, park-n-ride lots, etc. Unpatrolled parking lots. If they are patrolled by security, such as malls, it would probably be advantageous to speak to security. If it is a smaller parking lot where the business could notice the added activity I would discuss it with the business owner. In Middle TN it depends on the town you are in on the local park policies. Nashville allows them if you fill out a permit application and are approved. I live in Smyrna where they have no policies and we hide with no issues. Murfreesboro has a permit policy and will not allow anything bigger than a Micro. State Parks have a permit application but permission is granted by the individual parks Ranger.

 

My point is this. The ones who can answer your question best are the ones who cache in your area, not a national forum. Search out local cachers. Here is a link to aa Arizona based forum to get started.

 

http://superstitioncachers.phpbb3pro.com/index.php

[+SnoopySquad]

I don't mean to barge in this thread, but I have a question and it kind of feels appropriate to ask here since it's related. I've just started geocaching and my mom, who came along with me, loved the idea. She and my dad own a (business) property and she told me that it would be a great idea to hide a cache there. She even found the perfect spot (which is highly accessible to everybody, no need to cross fences or anything like that) and I promised her I'd look into it.

 

In this situation, would it be okay to place a cache in their property?

[Maine Family]

I don't mean to barge in this thread, but I have a question and it kind of feels appropriate to ask here since it's related. I've just started geocaching and my mom, who came along with me, loved the idea. She and my dad own a (business) property and she told me that it would be a great idea to hide a cache there. She even found the perfect spot (which is highly accessible to everybody, no need to cross fences or anything like that) and I promised her I'd look into it.

 

In this situation, would it be okay to place a cache in their property?

Yes she gave you permission to place a cache there. So you can place the cache and submit it for publication. They will probably enjoy watching people look for the cache.

[+briansnat]

I don't mean to barge in this thread, but I have a question and it kind of feels appropriate to ask here since it's related. I've just started geocaching and my mom, who came along with me, loved the idea. She and my dad own a (business) property and she told me that it would be a great idea to hide a cache there. She even found the perfect spot (which is highly accessible to everybody, no need to cross fences or anything like that) and I promised her I'd look into it.

 

In this situation, would it be okay to place a cache in their property?

 

It would be fine to place a cache there, but you have to make certain that it in no way promotes the business.

[+briansnat]

I'm ready to hide my first cache, but I have a question first about places you can hide them. I've read all of the literature on this site about getting permission from private property owners, but I'm not too clear on what would constitute private property. I've found quite a few caches in areas behind strip malls; does anyone know if hiding in such a location requires permission from anyone? They are usually set at least 500 feet or so behind the stores, so I don't imagine the land is on any of the stores' property. Also, what about HOA's (home owners associations)? In my area there are many small neighborhood parks that would be great for hiding caches, but would I need to advise the HOA first? Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

As the guidelines state, caches on private property always require permission from the property owner. This includes caches hidden behind strip malls. Whether or not they have the required permission is a different story.

 

As far as public lands (municipal, state, county and federal), you need to find out their rules and regulations regarding geocaching. Some park systems and land managers do not allow caches (national parks, national wildlife refuges for example), some require permits, or permission (some state and county park systems) and some have no policy. Many people interpret no policy to mean tacit permission.

[avianmigrator]

Hi. On a related matter, perhaps someone here can give me some direction. I'd like to place a cache here on the grounds of the wildlife sanctuary I manage. This is technically private property but it's open to the public dawn-dusk 24-7-365 .

I'm semi-ignorant here, so bear with me. Generally, we want to increase use of the property. The 'staff' here is basically myself and I've got a To Do list the length of Interstate 80.

So I guess the question becomes: Is there a way to contact someone local to assemble and place a cache here? Or at least to assist me?

[Maine Family]

Hi. On a related matter, perhaps someone here can give me some direction. I'd like to place a cache here on the grounds of the wildlife sanctuary I manage. This is technically private property but it's open to the public dawn-dusk 24-7-365 .

I'm semi-ignorant here, so bear with me. Generally, we want to increase use of the property. The 'staff' here is basically myself and I've got a To Do list the length of Interstate 80.

So I guess the question becomes: Is there a way to contact someone local to assemble and place a cache here? Or at least to assist me?

You could search to see who owns caches close to you and send them an email. Not sure where you are but you could check out geocaching groups to see if one is near you.

[+wavector]

Hi. On a related matter, perhaps someone here can give me some direction. I'd like to place a cache here on the grounds of the wildlife sanctuary I manage. This is technically private property but it's open to the public dawn-dusk 24-7-365 .

I'm semi-ignorant here, so bear with me. Generally, we want to increase use of the property. The 'staff' here is basically myself and I've got a To Do list the length of Interstate 80.

So I guess the question becomes: Is there a way to contact someone local to assemble and place a cache here? Or at least to assist me?

 

These are the types of placements that can really benefit the geocaching community. You could look for a local geocacher who has held an event or a CITO and explain that you would like to showcase your setting by making sure that geocachers know they are welcome. People who organize Event caches and CITO's are often very active in the goecaching community and they can help you. If you can get a geocacher to place a geocache in the area you manage and it is "placed with permisison" local geocaching groups can make sure that other semi-private locations or reluctant land managers are aware of the fact that your sanctuary allows geocaches. It is important to establish good relations with everyone.

 

Permission is important and an often cited rule is the "frisbee rule". If you can play "frisbee" there without asking for permisison then you can geocache. The "frisbee rule" isn't a very good rule, that is my opinion.

 

If you place the geocache yourself that is not as beneficial in terms of geocachers being able to cite your site as a place where cooperation is already established and working. I have a few placements where explicit permisison has been given. One CITO cache that I organized required explicit permission from the the city, the province and the federal government (all three levels of government signed off on the activty). Because it was a CITO cache and it was in a delicate environment we had to follow the rules they stipulated but after that first CITO event we have found the road to permission is fairly flat and fairly smooth, our good intentions are a given.

 

In Canada there are restrictions on placing geocaches in National Parks and several provinces have banned them outright in provincial parks yet in places like Utah they are encouraged in state parks! A lot of the possible outcomes are determined right in the beginning by the geocachers who are willing to step up and make sure that cooperation will be the buzzword that is associated with geocachers and geocaching.

 

You could be a boon to your local geocachers by working with them and establishing an example of permission and cooperation which could become the norm in that area. Go for it!

[+WatchDog2020]

Hi. On a related matter, perhaps someone here can give me some direction. I'd like to place a cache here on the grounds of the wildlife sanctuary I manage. This is technically private property but it's open to the public dawn-dusk 24-7-365 .

I'm semi-ignorant here, so bear with me. Generally, we want to increase use of the property. The 'staff' here is basically myself and I've got a To Do list the length of Interstate 80.

So I guess the question becomes: Is there a way to contact someone local to assemble and place a cache here? Or at least to assist me?

 

'avianmigrator' - I would suggest you post this a separate thread to get the most responses. BUT, looking at the area around Manistee I don't see a whole lot of caches. The ones that are there have been there a while and are averaging 30-40 people a year, so don't expect people to flock to you.

 

On a related mater. I was ‘Scolded’ on Christmas day by a golf course manager while looking for a cache at there entrance sign. He was very PO’ed to the point he didn’t understand that I was looking for one and not scouting a location to place a cache. I tried to no avail to explain and he wrote my license plate number down as I left. This was next to the road on the sign, and not out on the course. I’m guessing permission was not asked on that one.

Edited December 28, 2008 by WatchDog2020

[+SnoopySquad]

Yes she gave you permission to place a cache there. So you can place the cache and submit it for publication. They will probably enjoy watching people look for the cache.

I think the only problem there would be her wanting to give geocachers a clue just to make sure they don't leave without finding it, she's giddy like that.

 

Thanks!

[+The Blorenges]

Yes she gave you permission to place a cache there. So you can place the cache and submit it for publication. They will probably enjoy watching people look for the cache.

 

 

It would be fine to place a cache there, but you have to make certain that it in no way promotes the business.

 

I think the only problem there would be her wanting to give geocachers a clue just to make sure they don't leave without finding it, she's giddy like that.

 

Thanks!

 

In this sort of situation, as your parents own the property, I think it adds a "feel-good factor" to a cache if it you actually state on the cache description "Placed with full permission from the owners of this property". You don't have to, it's not necessary, but IMO it's a good way to reassure any hesitant cacher that they can search around happily.

 

When you submit the cache for review it's helpful to put such a detail in the Reviewer's note on the form, too.

 

MrsB

[+Renegade Knight]

... I'm not too clear on what would constitute private property....

 

KISS applies.

Private property is quite simple real estate owned by individuals and corporations. In other words non government lands.

 

The confusion kicks in (and then KISS starts getting fuzzy) when you think in terms of "areas of public accomodation". Many lands both public and private accomodate the public at some level. Not all public lands accomodate the public, and not all private lands keep the public out.

 

It helps to keep in mind "the frisbee test". If you would would play frisbee there, it's probalby a place that could be used for caching. My own rule (in the absence of other rules) has been if they allow casual recreational activities (which caching is) then caching is allowed by the very land use they allow.

 

Common sence applies. While I might play frisbee in a park, I'd not play it to bust out all the lights and think I was doing the park a favor with my casual recreational activity.

[+Renegade Knight]

Hi. On a related matter, perhaps someone here can give me some direction. I'd like to place a cache here on the grounds of the wildlife sanctuary I manage. This is technically private property but it's open to the public dawn-dusk 24-7-365 .

I'm semi-ignorant here, so bear with me. Generally, we want to increase use of the property. The 'staff' here is basically myself and I've got a To Do list the length of Interstate 80.

So I guess the question becomes: Is there a way to contact someone local to assemble and place a cache here? Or at least to assist me?

 

Place your own cache if you like. Who better than you to know where you want a cache, and more importantly where you don't?

 

If your sanctuary charges admission and is for profit, that may be a problem. If you are non profit though it should be good.