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Missing bugs


Naked Baby

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I set out 4 travel bugs back during the summer and 3 of the four have gone missing / stolen.

 

Not a nice thing to do.

 

I emailed the people who last dropped them off, as well as checked logs from the caches they were supposedly left and some mention the bugs were not there.

 

I guess some people don't play by the rules huh. I guess we can only hope someone still has them and will log them somewhere.

 

Thanks for the venting.

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I know how you feel. I just did an inventory of my GC/TB's and had to mark 1 of them MIA and have a possible 3 more missing. I emailed 2 people that have them in their possession (since Sept) and will see what happens. The other one isn't mentioned in the logs and I will probably go and check the cache this week end and see if its still there.

 

I know that placing trackables out there has no guarantee of ever moving, but I do love watching them move from cache to cache and will probably continue to spend the money on them. I'm a sucker like that.

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We have released 1 Geocoin & 1 Travel Bug.

 

The TB only traveled 3 miles from where we placed it and it is already missing from the cache it was dropped off in. The GC traveled to a couple caches with a total of 41 miles on it. It is has been in the hands of the last geocacher for 4 months now... with no reply to a kind email reminder.

 

It is disappointing to see these disappear, but we still plan to release a couple more and keep our fingers crossed for a better result this time.

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I lost a TB too -- "Museum Hopper". My first and only bug, of which I was pretty proud. I placed it in a local cache and it was picked up by a cacher who took it to Okinawa, where it attended an event. Got a lot of nice discover logs from people who saw it at the event. Then it got placed in a local cache and was promptly muggled, four months after release. My poor little bug! I suspect some kid has it -- probably one who doesn't read English.

 

However, don't lose hope. If you read the Official Travel Bug Obituary Thread, you'll see the occassional example of a bug that's been missing (often for a very long time) that suddenly reappears. It does happen.

 

So I posted some big "help! I'm missing!" text on MH's page and, hopefully, at some point, either the kid will pick up enough English and computer saavy to realize that "www.geocaching.com" is a URL (or one of his/her brothers/sisters/friends will) and I'll see it again. My fingers are crossed!

 

And so your bugs might reappear too. I surely hope they do.

Edited by Jackalgirl
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I emailed the people who last dropped them off, as well as checked logs from the caches they were supposedly left and some mention the bugs were not there.

 

That sucks that this is happening and that some people don't appreciate the time and money you put into those items (I know it isn't really about the money at all). That being said, the accusitory tone in this post seems a little unneccessary to me. If someone were planning on stealing the travel bugs I doubt they would log the grab in the first place. So there really is no reason to doubt the people who have logged them into new caches.

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TPG has a good point -- it's just as likely (in fact, moreso) that the people who logged your bugs as having been dropped off in the caches did so. What's more likely is that some other cacher -- perhaps a newbie, but quite possibly a maggot -- picked up your bugs and hasn't logged them yet due to:

 

1. unfamiliarity with how to log bugs

2. procrastination or laziness or got just too darn busy

3. forgot the bugs are in the bottom of his/her geocaching bag

4. children

5. etc.

 

So I wouldn't get too angry at the people who logged your bugs as having been dropped off. They're probably quite innocent in all this.

 

BTW, if anyone's interested, I posted a suggestion to Groundspeak in the geocaching.com Forum to make the process a bit more intuitive. In my suggestion, when you add a log to a cache page, you're asked whether you picked up any bugs. You'd still have to type in the TB number, but the system actively prompts you. (As well as giving you the option to drop off bugs in your inventory). I am hoping that this suggestion is well-received by Groundspeak, and would help to at least partially solve the problem of new cachers just not knowing how to log a bug properly.

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BTW, if anyone's interested, I posted a suggestion to Groundspeak in the geocaching.com Forum to make the process a bit more intuitive. In my suggestion, when you add a log to a cache page, you're asked whether you picked up any bugs. You'd still have to type in the TB number, but the system actively prompts you. (As well as giving you the option to drop off bugs in your inventory). I am hoping that this suggestion is well-received by Groundspeak, and would help to at least partially solve the problem of new cachers just not knowing how to log a bug properly.

That sounds like a really good idea. I hope they do consider adding this feature. I think it would really help.

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BTW, if anyone's interested, I posted a suggestion to Groundspeak in the geocaching.com Forum to make the process a bit more intuitive. In my suggestion, when you add a log to a cache page, you're asked whether you picked up any bugs. You'd still have to type in the TB number, but the system actively prompts you. (As well as giving you the option to drop off bugs in your inventory). I am hoping that this suggestion is well-received by Groundspeak, and would help to at least partially solve the problem of new cachers just not knowing how to log a bug properly.

That sounds like a really good idea. I hope they do consider adding this feature. I think it would really help.

 

I agree, great idea! We want to release a few bugs and know the risk, but it does make you wonder if you should. The first bug we ever found was a cute bear from Canada that had been missing for 4 years. A parent released it with her child to watch it travel and then it got stuck. We have recently "unstuck" it and hope it keeps on a-travelin'! In the meantime, though, the person who released it gave up on it and hasn't been on this site forever. I hope she comes back to see her bug a-movin'!

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BTW, if anyone's interested, I posted a suggestion to Groundspeak in the geocaching.com Forum to make the process a bit more intuitive. In my suggestion, when you add a log to a cache page, you're asked whether you picked up any bugs. You'd still have to type in the TB number, but the system actively prompts you. (As well as giving you the option to drop off bugs in your inventory). I am hoping that this suggestion is well-received by Groundspeak, and would help to at least partially solve the problem of new cachers just not knowing how to log a bug properly.

That sounds like a really good idea. I hope they do consider adding this feature. I think it would really help.

 

I agree, great idea! We want to release a few bugs and know the risk, but it does make you wonder if you should. The first bug we ever found was a cute bear from Canada that had been missing for 4 years. A parent released it with her child to watch it travel and then it got stuck. We have recently "unstuck" it and hope it keeps on a-travelin'! In the meantime, though, the person who released it gave up on it and hasn't been on this site forever. I hope she comes back to see her bug a-movin'!

 

I have him now. I messaged the owners, too. It is sad to think they may have given up on geocaching all together...possibly over him missing.

 

I get attached to the ones I find, so I just put them on my watchlist. It is like an adventure for me, too! I had a hard time with the first TB I found... He was the "Traveling Stitch." I tried so hard to find him a safe cache. I passed over sooo many caches that were waterlogged or in unsafe places, then just ended up revisiting a cache I thought was safe. I then received a heads up about 2 TBs that disappeared in that one, so I rushed back to save him. Then I found another place for him. Since then, there is a log of him being picked up, but no word since! I'm hoping that person is just taking him on a long trip (really long) and not keeping him. I would feel so terrible!!!

 

However, I have learned to research the cache I intend to place TB/GC's in before letting them go.....even if that means revisiting them.

 

How was buckaroo found?

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I've got 6 bugs out and 4 of them aren't moving. I've e-mailed the cachers involved, some twice.

 

One hasn't been logged since October, but the cacher is in upstate NY so I'm assuming that the weather is hampering their caching. I haven't bothered to e-mail about that one.

 

Another was passed along in April to a family member who just received a GPS for Christmas. This cacher has been great about responding to my e-mails. Just hearing back about the TB is good news.

 

Third bug has been held since August. The cacher's last logged cache was in October, but has logged in regularly. Last login was 12/22. He's a long time cacher and has handled over 79 bugs so he obviously knows the importance of them. He hasn't responded to either of my e-mails. I'm not terribly worried about him. This cacher travels the world so I'm sure my bug will turn up somewhere sweet.

 

The last bug was picked up quickly after I released it and hasn't been seen since. The cacher is a child that cached with a local school's club. He hasn't logged in since and the club hasn't logged in or cached since July. He also hasn't responded to my e-mails. The other day I did send a message to the club's account hoping that they might remind the cacher about the bug. We live within 10 miles of each other and I'd be willing to pay the postage to have it returned. This is the one that irritates me.

 

I have 5 more bugs to release so obviously I haven't been burned by the experience. I just love getting those e-mails saying my bug has been found or dropped.

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I've got 6 bugs out and 4 of them aren't moving. I've e-mailed the cachers involved, some twice....

 

....Third bug has been held since August. The cacher's last logged cache was in October, but has logged in regularly. Last login was 12/22. He's a long time cacher and has handled over 79 bugs so he obviously knows the importance of them. He hasn't responded to either of my e-mails. I'm not terribly worried about him. This cacher travels the world so I'm sure my bug will turn up somewhere sweet.

 

This bug just popped back up. Looks like the cacher recently handed over 4 bugs to a fellow cacher. A very honorable thing to do. The new cachers seem to cache every few days.

 

Like I mentioned in my previous post, I didn't complain much about this one. The bug was released in April and spent time in two caches in Florida and was then taken to Alaska. It was picked up at the foot of a glacier and then moved to Mexico where it was dipped and stayed with the cacher. Yesterday it was grabbed by the new cacher and is currently in Spain.

 

6,735 miles after only being in 4 caches is pretty sweet!

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I guess in a way I might understand a 10 year-old finding one not knowing what it was and keeping it but some of the adults really amaze me.

 

I found this one travel bug that its destination was Montana so I put in it Ft. Davis which is at the gun museum in Claremore, OK in September. The bug hadn't been logged or moved so I went back to the cache and it was gone. I posted on the log about "hoping it showed up" and finally someone logged it out. Since that time the person began logging it in and out of the same cash on the same day. This has been going on for over two months and perhaps 25 caches. I finally sent them an email asking them to quit fooling around with it and get it back on the move. I received a nasty reply back from them but it looks like they have finally put it in a cache and left it.

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Ah. Hmm... Now I have two sisters sending me geocoins for Christmas! Okay, so I send them amaryllises, they send me geocoins. :( Got seven geocoins for Christmas!

(hmmm... I do seem to have misplaced five of my geocoins. :yikes: ) So, anyway, of 40 travellers:

7 have been marked missing.

14 are still in my possession (or misplaced...)

1 hasn't moved in three years. The holder hasn't geocached since picking up the geocoin.

The other 18 are happily wandering the world. Not too bad an average. One has almost 18000 miles. Two are at 11000 miles. One hasn't moved from the cache (one of mine) that I hide it in last March. :( One was picked up in May, but never logged. Oh, well.

Don't get too attached to them (anyone going to tNew Hampshire and want to check a bar for my pink flamingo???) And get your sisters to buy you lots more!!

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Well, to share a personal story, when I started geocaching three years ago and first learned about TBs, I was very excited. I decided that I'd buy the biggest and cutest TB I could and send it out on a journey of wonder and discovery. And so, for $17 (or was it $13?) and the cost of a TB tag, "Roy the Globetrotting Golden Spider Monkey" was born. His mission was to swing from cache to cache around the world! So, I wrapped the TB tag around his neck (there was no mission statement attached), took a couple of pics, and dropped him into my first puzzle cache that I'd dubbed Jungle Fever! Come to think of it now, Roy was selected as my first TB primarily because he kinda fit the jungle theme of the cache. Anyway, he was immediately picked up by the FTFers and I imagined that this would be the start of an amazing adventure. Unfortunately, poor Roy lasted less than two weeks in the wild. He made it to a total of two new caches before swinging out of sight forever. I still harbor a few suspicions about what happened to him but he probably fell victim to the excessive cuteness factor (see pics below). How could anyone resist such an expression?! Poor Roy, I still mourn his loss. :blink:

 

8c1a8914-ee25-4e94-9288-f7efde7c4533.jpg

 

cd0bdbce-608e-405a-994f-eb574f92532d.jpg

 

Anyway, having learned my TB lesson the hard way, I switched my attention to geocoins. Over the next year or two, I purchased a number of pretty geocoins, dutifully drilled holes in them (with a cheap electric drill bought specifically for this purpose) and attached them to blank keychains (bought specifically for this purpose). I released a total of 15 such coins before my drill began to lose its effectiveness (or they began to make geocoins out of harder and harder metals!). However, as of today, only two of these can be accounted for and the rest have (or will soon be) moved to that most dubious of TB destinations, the "Unknown Location".

 

And so, within the past few months, I've resorted to just leaving unactivated geocoins that catch my fancy in caches that I've enjoyed finding (especially if I was FTF!). This simple activity has already given me more pleasure and satisfaction than I've had in trying to determine where my missing coin is now or where it was last, who might have discovered it and who might have picked it up, etc, etc, etc. :)

Edited by JamGuys
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How long do you usually wait before you mark a TB as MIA? We put out a TB for the new year in our own hide. The cacher who picked up the TB only signed the log with the date and 'thanks' so I have no way to know who has it. Of course, there's no log from this person on the cache's web page either.

 

So I figure the TB is gone. I just wanted to get an idea how long before I should make a note on the TB's page.

 

Thanks!

Edited by Team Caballero
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How long do you usually wait before you mark a TB as MIA? We put out a TB for the new year in our own hide. The cacher who picked up the TB only signed the log with the date and 'thanks' so I have no way to know who has it. Of course, there's no log from this person on the cache's web page either.

 

So I figure the TB is gone. I just wanted to get an idea how long before I should make a note on the TB's page.

 

Thanks!

 

If you have checked the cache yourself I'd say move after 2-3 weeks. If I only see a report that the bugs isn't in the cache I'll give it 30 days. Depending on the cache the poster may have just missed seeing it. If it's an ammocan it might have gotten buried. Without checking it myself two reports would be nice.

 

Which is why if I am checking someone else's cache for a bug I'll be very clear that I made a careful search. If someone did that for one of my caches then one report would be enough.

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How long do you usually wait before you mark a TB as MIA? We put out a TB for the new year in our own hide. The cacher who picked up the TB only signed the log with the date and 'thanks' so I have no way to know who has it. Of course, there's no log from this person on the cache's web page either.

 

So I figure the TB is gone. I just wanted to get an idea how long before I should make a note on the TB's page.

 

Thanks!

 

This new year? I'd hardly call that missing. Try posting a note to the TB page, and cache page first: "Looking for an update on the whereabouts of "Insert TB Name here" Thank you" and hope they see it. Marking it missing can really be done anytime, it only moves the TB out of the cache that it was in, so others are not disappointed when they don't find it. Getting it back in action is as simple as logging it again. It doesn't end up in Unknown Location forever if someone finds it.

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My beef is with TB and coin owners who don't record their travellers as missing. I advise owners when a recently dropped bug is not in the reported cache and hasn't been logged, but I've sent emails to some owners of long-MIA bugs asking them to delist them, and have gotten no response. Is there some way to clear the automated cache logs of clearly missing bugs and coins, particularly when the owner seems to be MIA as well?

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My beef is with TB and coin owners who don't record their travellers as missing. I advise owners when a recently dropped bug is not in the reported cache and hasn't been logged, but I've sent emails to some owners of long-MIA bugs asking them to delist them, and have gotten no response. Is there some way to clear the automated cache logs of clearly missing bugs and coins, particularly when the owner seems to be MIA as well?

 

I find it helpful to provide instructions on how to mark a bug as missing. It's not always obvious to everyone.

 

The cache owner can mark the bug missing as well.

 

The steps would be to start with the bug owner, if after a couple three weeks you don't hear anything try the cache owner. If after a couple three more weeks you can contact the TB forum Mod Eartha. Provide her the link and bug reference number.

 

Please work with the bug and cache owner before contacting Eartha.

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This new year? I'd hardly call that missing. Try posting a note to the TB page, and cache page first: "Looking for an update on the whereabouts of "Insert TB Name here" Thank you" and hope they see it. Marking it missing can really be done anytime, it only moves the TB out of the cache that it was in, so others are not disappointed when they don't find it. Getting it back in action is as simple as logging it again. It doesn't end up in Unknown Location forever if someone finds it.

 

I agree I'm asking rather quickly after it not being in the cache and not logged. It's just that the person who picked it up didn't sign their name/tag in the log in the cache nor did they post a find on the cache's web site. The next cacher on the log sheet noted that the TB was not in the cache.

 

I'll wait another week or so and then post those notes.

 

Thanks!

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I have see from looking at cachers logs that sometimes TB's are picked up for months or even years,

and never dropped off again. Ok you can send them a nice email about it.

But if that doesn't work can't there be some type of official sanction against them.

I am talking about people who's inventory shows these TB's + GC's still in their possession.

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I found a bug that was missing since 2006. We found it in a cache that was MIA for about a year but we luckily found it about 40 m away,alittle chewed,wet &moldy .The bug was there but not logged for that cache. We fixed the cache, took the bug to move to the states,where it wants to go and e-mailed the owners,who are from Germany but have not e-mailed us back.So there is always hope for your lost ones.

Bill&Vi.

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I emailed the people who last dropped them off, as well as checked logs from the caches they were supposedly left and some mention the bugs were not there.

 

That sucks that this is happening and that some people don't appreciate the time and money you put into those items (I know it isn't really about the money at all). That being said, the accusitory tone in this post seems a little unneccessary to me. If someone were planning on stealing the travel bugs I doubt they would log the grab in the first place. So there really is no reason to doubt the people who have logged them into new caches.

 

Yes it can get expensive, the TB Tags at about $5.00 a pop, plus the bug itself.

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We've had 3 out of the 4 TBs that we've released go missing...

 

One of them was hidden in a hydro-style cache and the cache got washed away by floor waters or something, so that TB bit the dust.

 

Another ended up traveling many thousands of miles before somebody decided to hold onto it...

 

The 3rd only got a few miles on it before some n00b kept it forever..

 

The 4th is still out there...hopefully this one will have better luck...

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:D A happy update on my TB - the Geocacher who picked it up was a real newbie (only caching for a week or so). I've sent an email with some suggestions like to log their find, to write their name on the log sheet and to log the TB.

 

We just released a Geocoin on Saturday.

 

We won't stop releasing hitchhikers. We've had fun watching ours move around the country. It can be expensive, but it's cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment!

 

Thank you all for replying!

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Trackables are a big part of my caching experience. I have 100 out there mostly travel bugs including 59 (you read it right) based on characters in the movie Cars. I always consider at least 30 to be "missing" at all times. The survivors are all over the planet, most were released in Canada and a few in America and one in New Zealand, 30,000 plus kilometres on some. Not unusual for one to come back to life after a year, that happened several times last year. I collect coins and make them available for discovery, don't turn them loose very often.

Can be pricey, hate to see them go missing, I get nervous when a new cacher picks up one, lost several that way. Maybe more explanation on GS would help. The cost should be made clear, my Cars ones cost about $10 each with the tag. These are collectable and some characters hard to find, I drill a hole through each one to somewhat deter the collector.

Just reading over this post --- I really need to get a life! :D

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We have several bugs and other travelers that seem to have "stalled" in someone's hands. Some they've had for months! We've emailed those that hold our bugs and they don't even bother to reply! We've offered to pay postage to have them sent to us! This almost makes me want to quit. We pay good money and spend time setting up something really neat, only to have another "person" take the fun out of it. I wish there was another way to contact theses people and get their attention!

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I've got 6 bugs out and 4 of them aren't moving. I've e-mailed the cachers involved, some twice....

 

....Third bug has been held since August. The cacher's last logged cache was in October, but has logged in regularly. Last login was 12/22. He's a long time cacher and has handled over 79 bugs so he obviously knows the importance of them. He hasn't responded to either of my e-mails. I'm not terribly worried about him. This cacher travels the world so I'm sure my bug will turn up somewhere sweet.

 

This bug just popped back up. Looks like the cacher recently handed over 4 bugs to a fellow cacher. A very honorable thing to do. The new cachers seem to cache every few days.

 

Like I mentioned in my previous post, I didn't complain much about this one. The bug was released in April and spent time in two caches in Florida and was then taken to Alaska. It was picked up at the foot of a glacier and then moved to Mexico where it was dipped and stayed with the cacher. Yesterday it was grabbed by the new cacher and is currently in Spain.

 

6,735 miles after only being in 4 caches is pretty sweet!

 

Another update on this bug. The cacher in Spain dropped it last week. It's in a cache at a castle that was built in the 10th century. It has now traveled 11,998 miles and has only been in 5 caches. It originated in Florida, then went to a glacier in Alaska, dipped in a cache in Cozumel and then dropped in Spain.

 

So while it's sad to lose one, sometimes you hit the jackpot.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=1473144

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When we first started caching we picked up and moved pretty much every coin/TB that we ran across. We found out though that most of the time we were only able to move them a few miles and/or we ended up dropping them back in caches they had previously been in. So now unless we are 50+ miles from home we rarely pick them up, we just write down the number and do a discovery on them. Yesterday I went out to check one of my caches. When I got there I found 3 TB's so I wrote down the numbers of all of them and when I got home I started logging them as discovered. The first one went fine but when I got to the second one, it wasn't listed as being in that particular cache, in fact, it was listed as being in an unknown location. I checked the history of it and found that the owner (who lives clear across the country!) had placed it in a cache a few miles from my home clear back in October 2007. It went missing out of that cache and hasn't been seen since until I found it in my cache 30 miles away. I grabbed it from the unknown location and dropped it in the correct cache. The owner is still active so hopefully they'll get to see it moving now. The TB, stuffed animal, and plastic bag they are in all still look brand new, I'm thinking it has been sitting on a shelf somewhere. The third one also was not listed as being in the right cache so I got it straightened out too, at least it hasn't been missing for a year and a half! Plus there was one TB listed in the inventory that wasn't in the cache. I have no idea where it's at so I posted a note on it's page so the owner is aware.

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When we first started caching we picked up and moved pretty much every coin/TB that we ran across. We found out though that most of the time we were only able to move them a few miles and/or we ended up dropping them back in caches they had previously been in. So now unless we are 50+ miles from home we rarely pick them up, we just write down the number and do a discovery on them. Yesterday I went out to check one of my caches. When I got there I found 3 TB's so I wrote down the numbers of all of them and when I got home I started logging them as discovered. The first one went fine but when I got to the second one, it wasn't listed as being in that particular cache, in fact, it was listed as being in an unknown location. I checked the history of it and found that the owner (who lives clear across the country!) had placed it in a cache a few miles from my home clear back in October 2007. It went missing out of that cache and hasn't been seen since until I found it in my cache 30 miles away. I grabbed it from the unknown location and dropped it in the correct cache. The owner is still active so hopefully they'll get to see it moving now. The TB, stuffed animal, and plastic bag they are in all still look brand new, I'm thinking it has been sitting on a shelf somewhere. The third one also was not listed as being in the right cache so I got it straightened out too, at least it hasn't been missing for a year and a half! Plus there was one TB listed in the inventory that wasn't in the cache. I have no idea where it's at so I posted a note on it's page so the owner is aware.

 

The system is not very good at handling trackable items, actually it is seriously broken. If you own a cache you can mark an item as missing from your cache and it will appear in location Unknown. The TB owners can also mark their items as missing and they go to location Unknown. Any item can be returned from Unknown just as you have done, by logging it back to the cache where it was found.

 

Travel bugs and geocoins that show up in the inventory of caches and are not there are everywhere in the system. If the TB owner or cache owner do not mark them as missing there is no method to remove them from searches and lists of caches and cache inventories. Items which have been gone for years are still listed as being in the cache even though twenty geocachers have remarked that the item is gone.

 

I am hoping that in a future release they will fix this and allow any geocacher to report that an item is gone from the cache. This would have the salutory effect of making PQ's for trackable items usable again, right now they are just a waste of time because of the number of false positiives.

 

You did good by fixing things up with the TB's you found. If you own the cache and the item is not in there then you can fix your cache listing by marking the item as missing, it has no effect other than letting visitors know the item is not acutally in your cache.

Edited by wavector
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The system is not very good at handling trackable items, actually it is seriously broken. If you own a cache you can mark an item as missing from your cache and it will appear in location Unknown. The TB owners can also mark their items as missing and they go to location Unknown. Any item can be returned from Unknown just as you have done, by logging it back to the cache where it was found.

 

Travel bugs and geocoins that show up in the inventory of caches and are not there are everywhere in the system. If the TB owner or cache owner do not mark them as missing there is no method to remove them from searches and lists of caches and cache inventories. Items which have been gone for years are still listed as being in the cache even though twenty geocachers have remarked that the item is gone.

 

I am hoping that in a future release they will fix this and allow any geocacher to report that an item is gone from the cache. This would have the salutory effect of making PQ's for trackable items usable again, right now they are just a waste of time because of the number of false positiives.

 

You did good by fixing things up with the TB's you found. If you own the cache and the item is not in there then you can fix your cache listing by marking the item as missing, it has no effect other than letting visitors know the item is not acutally in your cache.

 

Thanks Wavector, I wasn't aware the cache owner could do this too. In looking at the logs, this particular TB was in the cache as recent as a week ago so it's possible whoever took it just hasn't logged it yet. I'll give it another week or two and if it's still listed then I'll mark it as missing.

 

I was looking at the ones that were there and #3, which was listed as being in a different cache, like #2 also had no logs since October 2007. Looks like the same person had it and the one that was marked as missing. Hopefully they didn't drop those two and pick up the one that now isn't there. Or if they did, hopefully they'll be a little more concientious this time.

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I am hoping that in a future release they will fix this and allow any geocacher to report that an item is gone from the cache. This would have the salutatory effect of making PQ's for trackable items usable again, right now they are just a waste of time because of the number of false positives.

 

I can just imagine the havoc that would be caused if just anybody could move a TB or coin to the unknown location. Do you really want that power in the hands of the same people that are not logging or logging them incorrectly in the first place?

 

The mods here have said several times that they will remove bugs and coins from caches if the owners are unwilling to do so.

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I am very new to geocaching and am definitely obessive about logging my trackables correctly. I also try to post in a log if the trackables listed are not in the cache. Should I do anything else in these cases like email the owner of the trackable to let them know? I figure the cache owner reads the log, so I don't have to contact them.

 

It is annoying to come across so many caches that supposedly should have TBs or geocoins in them, only to find nothing. I mean I still enjoy the cache and the whole process, but it's frustrating that so many are incorrectly listed and I'm wondering if I could do more to fix these by emailing someone.

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I am very new to geocaching and am definitely obessive about logging my trackables correctly. I also try to post in a log if the trackables listed are not in the cache. Should I do anything else in these cases like email the owner of the trackable to let them know? I figure the cache owner reads the log, so I don't have to contact them.

 

It is annoying to come across so many caches that supposedly should have TBs or geocoins in them, only to find nothing. I mean I still enjoy the cache and the whole process, but it's frustrating that so many are incorrectly listed and I'm wondering if I could do more to fix these by emailing someone.

 

The main thing is to be certain that if someone has picked it up they have had enough time to log it. Or that if it has been picked and dropped in another cache, enough time has past for the next cacher to find it, then wait for someone to log it before they grab it away and log it correctly.

 

If I have been to the cache and confirmed it is missing I will wait a minimum of 30 days for first considering it missing.

 

Then I to do research to see if I can determine who might have taken it. Unfortunately it's usually brand new cachers. Either they didn't know what to do with it or they lost interest before getting the bug back out to a cache.

 

If I am going by posted reports from other people I can't always take it as gospel. Perhaps that cacher simply missing it amid the mess of trinkets. I usually like to see one or two more people confirm the bug is not in the cache. So we could be talking a couple three months before the bug is removed.

 

If you want to email me a few examples from your area I can go through them and give you an idea of what I look for.

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I can just imagine the havoc that would be caused if just anybody could move a TB or coin to the unknown location.

 

That wasn't the feature that I was hoping they would add. :laughing:

I would like to see a feature that let's cachers report that the TB or geocoin is "gone" from the cache, once an item was marked as "gone" it wouldn't be moved anywhere, just grayed out.

Marking an item as "gone" would just gray out the item in the cache listing providing a visual cue that the item was not actually present. Once an item was marked as "gone" it would be removed from PQ's and cache lists, this would make the PQ's usable in regards to trackable items.

As it stands Premium Members are paying Groundspeak for a PQ function that is totally useless for trackable items, there is no way to use a PQ to find trackable items because the system has no way to record the fact that items are not actually in the cache.

The system is broken, regardless of the willingness of reviewers to address the concerns of individuals.

 

Here is a link to the thread where I pointed out some of the problems and linked some specific cache lists that show missing trackable items. The Minnesota State Park system did a geocaching promotion last summer. At the end of the season they archived the caches they placed and there are more than a hundered trackable items listed as being present in the archived caches. To address this issue through a reviewer you would need to write more than hundred emails, it isn't going to happen. We were on holidays and I tried to do as you suggested, I wrote emails every night and I ran into reviewers who were very reluctant to help, not a single TB owner responded and cache owners were actually getting mad because they felt that the listing attracted visitors looking for trackable items.

The system is seriously broken and depending upon cachers to write three emails (TB Owner, Cache Owner, Reviewer) every time they see a travel bug listed as being present when it isn't doesn't work.

 

Cachers are willing to point out that items are not in the cache but the systrem has no way to capture and record that information. The only way to tell if a trackable item is actually present is to read the logs.

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If I am going by posted reports from other people I can't always take it as gospel. Perhaps that cacher simply missing it amid the mess of trinkets. I usually like to see one or two more people confirm the bug is not in the cache. So we could be talking a couple three months before the bug is removed.

 

If you want to email me a few examples from your area I can go through them and give you an idea of what I look for.

 

If I look in one of my caches and see an item listed as being there and it isn't I mark it as missing, I do this because it is missing. It affects no one, if a cacher has the item they can grab it from Unknown with no problem.

Waiting three months to mark an item as missing is a waste of time.

Cache owners should make sure the listing reflects the actual state of affairs.

If it is a weekend and I see log entries for which there is no corresponding online log I will wait. Many people do not log the TB retrieval in the log book and giving them a week or so doesn't hurt but it really doesn't matter at all. If the cacher has the TB they can log it whenever they want, they have the code. The sooner I mark it as missing the better the chance that some geocacher doesn't seek my cache expecting to find a trackable.

 

The problem is so widepsread and so obvious that anything that attempts to address the issue is good. I have to say Blue, waiting three months and even offering that advice to others will just cause the problem to get worse.

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The problem is so widepsread and so obvious that anything that attempts to address the issue is good. I have to say Blue, waiting three months and even offering that advice to others will just cause the problem to get worse.

 

Your 'any' attempt is simply removing the bug without considering any other situation other than it was reported as 'not seen'. My three month recommendation is when I am (or someone is) trying to determine if a bug is MIA without ever visiting the cache. Removing a bug based on just one report is not a process I am going to recommend.

 

If a cache owner goes to the cache with the specific intent to verify the bug is no longer there, then the amount of wait time is considerably reduced.

 

Things happen slowly in geocaching. A bug does not get moved every day. In fact I would say a bug moves, if it's lucky, once every two to three months. You have to allow time for things to work themselves out. Having a bug sit on your cache listing for 30 days is not going to have that much of an impact. It is possibly to do things too quickly and add to the confusion.

 

And if some cache owner sees a missing report I am not going to tell him he not managing his cache properly since he didn't remove a bug within five days of the report. Once a month is perfectly fine.

 

Edited: Clarification.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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I would never visit a cache including one of my own simply on the speculation of a trackable being there because of the notation on the listing page. I mark my own missing after about a year unless I get some other communication to the contrary. As I have mentioned in previous logs I find it not uncommon for a bug to come back to life after a year. If I have marked it as missing it is a simple matter for the cacher to grab a place in a new cache. Complicated issue, don't want too many rules, we have enough government intervention in our lives don't need GS stepping in to fill any voids. :laughing:

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Those are not such great odds!

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I emailed the people who last dropped them off, as well as checked logs from the caches they were supposedly left and some mention the bugs were not there.

 

That sucks that this is happening and that some people don't appreciate the time and money you put into those items (I know it isn't really about the money at all). That being said, the accusitory tone in this post seems a little unneccessary to me. If someone were planning on stealing the travel bugs I doubt they would log the grab in the first place. So there really is no reason to doubt the people who have logged them into new caches.

 

Yes it can get expensive, the TB Tags at about $5.00 a pop, plus the bug itself.

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If I have marked it as missing it is a simple matter for the cacher to grab a place in a new cache.

 

This is the truth, it is very simple to return it if it is found.

Having it marked into location "Unknown" doesn't have a negative impact on anyone but it does reflect the actual state of affairs. It isn't complicated at all, it is very straightforward.

Cache owners and TB owners should mark that items are in locatoin "unknown" as soon as they can confirm the item is not in the cache, even if it is sitting in a cachers pocket or in the back seat of a van on holidays.

I do plan maintenace visits around reports of missing bugs because a lot of cachers do choose caches that contain trackables, trackable items are one of the two basic gamepieces in geocaching and they are the focus of the adventure for many, as they should be.

So even though you would never visit a cache for a trackable item the fact that many people do should be clear to everyone, look at this thread and many other threads that deal with the same issue.

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Why not stop part of the problem at the source? Many new to caching do not take the time to learn the Do's and Don'ts of trackable items and thus the items go missing when they grab a shiny coin. I am not saying all items go missing this way but I am sure it is a large percent.

 

When people sign up for a Geocaching Account they should automatically be sent an email that they must read that states what to do and not do with trackable items and a time frame for moving them along. I think some people think trackables are SWAG for them to keep because they did not bother to come to this website and read up on trackables.

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I set out 4 travel bugs back during the summer and 3 of the four have gone missing / stolen.

 

Not a nice thing to do.

 

I emailed the people who last dropped them off, as well as checked logs from the caches they were supposedly left and some mention the bugs were not there.

 

I guess some people don't play by the rules huh. I guess we can only hope someone still has them and will log them somewhere.

 

Thanks for the venting.

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Travel bugs and geocoins that show up in the inventory of caches and are not there are everywhere in the system. If the TB owner or cache owner do not mark them as missing there is no method to remove them from searches and lists of caches and cache inventories. Items which have been gone for years are still listed as being in the cache even though twenty geocachers have remarked that the item is gone.

 

I am hoping that in a future release they will fix this and allow any geocacher to report that an item is gone from the cache. This would have the salutory effect of making PQ's for trackable items usable again, right now they are just a waste of time because of the number of false positiives.

 

Yes it seems like maybe half the caches I visit that are supposed to have trackables in them, in fact, do not. I wish there was a way to mark them as missing. The system could at least mark them as "possibly" missing, so geocachers wouldn't have too much power into sending them totally to "unknown" territory. It's good the cache owner and trackable owner can still do this though.

 

I hope they do update the site with this suggestion at some point. Until then, I'll just keep writing in the log that the bugs/geocoins were not there and hopefully people will read this and not get their hopes up.

Edited by rangeoflight
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I know exactually how you feel. I have 6 TB's out there and have only 2 left that i know of that are not missing. I am not going to delete them because who knows maybe someday they will pop up, i only hope so. I just wish that people that have cache hides would keep there maintenance up on their caches. When i see a TB in my cache and noticed it has been in there way too long i will go out and retrieve it and move it along or contact the owner telling them it is no longer in my cache.

If i am traveling and seeking out caches i look to see how long a TB has been in that cache and if it has been awhile i will pick it up and move it along. I know how the TB owner feels if their TB is sitting in one spot forever. The whole point of having TB's is to keep them moving along.

But i haven't gave up on TB's, i am getting ready to go down south and am releasing 3 new TB's hopefully they do not come up MIA.

So if you are out caching and see a TB that has been in idol for awhile why not grab it and move it along i'm sure the owner would greatly appreciate it, i know i would.

Thanks everyone,

MooseFeather :)

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OK, this might be a bit off topic...or maybe it's right on topic.

 

I have a bug that is 100% dead. The dog tag is gone, and the bug itself is no longer discoverable. Is it possible by anyone's reckoning to DELETE the bug from the system so it doesn't show up on my trackables list anymore?

 

This particular bug was on a car. The dog tags were thrown away, the decal removed and the car sold to a muggle. It's never going to be discovered ever again.

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