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A letter box near my cache


lizalynn

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I recently went to check on one of my geocaches and Found letterbox near it. Like 9 feet away. I have looked and looked to find this letterbox on the sight and did not find. How do i find out if this is with in the guidelines of Geocaching So I can leave the letter box there or remove it. Thanks look forward to an answer lizalynn

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I recently went to check on one of my geocaches and Found letterbox near it. Like 9 feet away. I have looked and looked to find this letterbox on the sight and did not find. How do i find out if this is with in the guidelines of Geocaching So I can leave the letter box there or remove it. Thanks look forward to an answer lizalynn

It is probably listed on a letterbox site, not GC. It should be fine where it is.

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How do i find out if this is with in the guidelines of Geocaching So I can leave the letter box there or remove it.

 

You don't, it's not a geocache so it doesn't fall under any imaginary geocaching.com jurisdiction, it's a letterbox. You leave it there so the letterboxers can find it.

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I went out looking for a cache once and found instead, you guessed it, a letterbox. I had already signed the log and was getting ready to go when I noticed the stamp. Actually, several other cachers had "found" the letterbox as well thinking they had found the cache. The cache was less than 20' away. Not a big problem, but a lot of confusion.

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I recently went to check on one of my geocaches and Found letterbox near it. Like 9 feet away. I have looked and looked to find this letterbox on the sight and did not find. How do i find out if this is with in the guidelines of Geocaching So I can leave the letter box there or remove it. Thanks look forward to an answer lizalynn

 

I've seen a few caches that mentioned right in their description that a letterbox is nearby. This would be a good idea for your cache so that cachers will know that what they find may not be your cache.

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It's only OK to remove the Letterbox if you consider it OK for the Letterbox owner to remove your cache. Letterboxing is a different game with different rules (see www.letterboxing.org and www.atlasquest.com). However, they generally like to hide containers in the same type of locations where geocachers like to hide containers.

 

Leave it alone, and maybe put a note on your cache page warning seekers about the nearby letterbox. Make sure you mention that people shouldn't steal the stamp.

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If you can find it on one of the letterboxing sites you can attempt to contact the owner. Ask if you can put note on the inside of the lid or such to let geocachers know that they need to keep looking. Don't be surprised though if you don't get a warm response. Many letterboxers view geocachers in a less than friendly manner. They think of us as a bastardized version of their sport. Try not to fan the flames.

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Your cache is, (almost certainly), fine right where it is.

Likewise, the letterbox is probably fine right where it is.

I say this to clarify that I am not suggesting a course of action.

I am simply describing my response.

If I found that a letterbox had been placed precariously near one of my caches, I would seriously consider moving my cache far enough away that they wouldn't get confused with each other. If there's only a few feet separating the two, it's conceivable that letterboxers could find my cache and walk away disappointed, thinking the stamp had been stolen. If my precise spot was critical to my hide, then I would post the aforementioned notifications.

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...it's conceivable that letterboxers could find my cache and walk away disappointed, thinking the stamp had been stolen.

 

The odds of a geocacher trading out the letterbox stamp are actually pretty good. :blink:

 

The letterboxers know the stamp HAS to stay with the letterbox because it is essential to the activity of letterboxing.

When a geocacher finds a letterbox near a geocache site they often assume it is the geocache. They see the stamp and it is a "good item" for a "geocache" so they trade it out, often for a few dollar store items.

After trading out the stamp they sign the Letterbox log book and add something like "Took stamp, left rubber ball and glowstick, TFTH."

 

That tends to get the letterboxers upset with the geocachers.

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Riff that is a very good course of action.

 

Wave that happens all to often and is one of the reasons that letterboxers tend to dislike us geocachers.

 

Any time I have the chance to introduce someone to caching I make it a point to mention letterboxing. Sooner or later a geocacher will encounter a letterbox and if he/she is forewarned it is less likely to stress the relations between the two sports. I have often thought that some of the "cache maggots" out there are quite possibly po'd letterboxers.

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It's only OK to remove the Letterbox if you consider it OK for the Letterbox owner to remove your cache.

 

Now that was funny. Well, not really funny, but you know what I mean. Anyways, check out letterboxing.org or Atlasquest.com It seems letterboxing.org is older, and sort of being replaced by atlasquest.com. But that just might be in my area, I can't speak for the letterboxing community as a whole. Either way, you'll have to carefully read all the letterbox descriptions in the area, sometimes it is very difficult to determine exactly which letterbox it is.

 

I had a long since archived cache in a County park. I was there first, but there was a letterboxing "event" (or whatever they call them) in the park, and they dropped like 15 letterboxes. Towards the end of my cache's life, I started receiving reports of a letterbox within 10 feet of it. Darned if I ever figured out which letterbox it was. :blink:

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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If it is not registered on GC, then it is an actual genuine letterbox, which is a totally different game. Either you can move your geocache to a different location slightly further away or leave it where it is at, and mention the letterbox in your cache description. You might still want to mention it anyway even if you move your cache 100ft away.

 

I was once searching for a good spot to hide a cache near a lake on a beautiful overlook. I just happened to spot a great location and removed a rock near an old chimney foundation and behold, there was a letterbox there. I signed the log and wrote I found it by pure accident. I decided not to hide a cache there as not to add confusion to other cachers.

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I was looking for a cache in stormy weather in the woods and my gps seemed to lead me around in circles a bit, and just when I was about to find something to poke about in a hollow tree, it seemed to lead me away from there. I searched the only likely spot and accidentally found a cache. I thought it was strange that people had stamped it with various rubber stamps (it had been there since 2004).

 

It wasn't until going to log it online that I noticed that the geocache was from 2006 and several logs from way back mentioning a letterbox cache. My track log indicated that I had been right on top of the real cache. So I logged a note, and returned the following day to find the real geocache (not in the hollow tree) and changed my online log note to a find, and that a white container is not it. I did bring a rubber stamp to stamp my log in the letterbox cache and added a note that it is not the geocache ID#.

 

The letterbox cache was about 100 ft due east of the geocache, so coordinates in one direction were the same.

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Leave it alone, and maybe put a note on your cache page warning seekers about the nearby letterbox. Make sure you mention that people shouldn't steal the stamp.

 

I'd put a note in the the cache telling letterboxers that it's not the letterbox and slip a note into the letterbox telling geocachers that it's not the geocache and to keep looking.

 

This is what I've done in the several instances where I know a letterbox is near one of my geocaches.

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"I have often thought that some of the "cache maggots" out there are quite possibly po'd letterboxers."

 

Actually, there are letterboxing "bandits" as well. In Connecticut there is someone who goes around stealing only the stamp in the letterboxing, then carefully rehides the box. Since the stamp is 99% of the letterbox, that kills the letterbox. Last fall, the bandit vandalized a 30-box series (not the same as a mult-cache - each box is a 'find' and has a stamp). It would have taken him/her all day to locate each letterbox only to steal the stamp. Because of this, more 'clues' in the region are going underground and are called 'Word of Mouth' series, or they are listed as restricted boxes that you can only see if you have planted or found a specified number of boxes.

 

There are also cases where the logbook and stamp are removed and replaced with trinkets. I then have to try to convince letterboxers that geocachers were not responsible for the vandalism because cachers would never take the logbook.

 

The term "cache maggot" is unfortunate - it reminds me of the letterbox in a cemetery on which a gerbil's tupperware coffin was placed. People opened it up only to find a decomposing gerbil instead of the logbook and stamp.

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The term "cache maggot" is unfortunate - it reminds me of the letterbox in a cemetery on which a gerbil's tupperware coffin was placed. People opened it up only to find a decomposing gerbil instead of the logbook and stamp.

 

Yeah, we do that in caching too, only we use hamsters instead of gerbils....

 

 

:lol:

 

 

:lol:

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If you can find it on one of the letterboxing sites you can attempt to contact the owner. Ask if you can put note on the inside of the lid or such to let geocachers know that they need to keep looking. Don't be surprised though if you don't get a warm response. Many letterboxers view geocachers in a less than friendly manner. They think of us as a bastardized version of their sport. Try not to fan the flames.

 

Hi~ I am a letterboxer. {friendly wave!} I have found this topic interesting since the same concern (in reverse) has been discussed on Atlas Quest. When I plant a letterbox, I usually put a note on the box itself and on the cover of the logbook stating that it is a letterbox and that the stamp should not be removed.

 

The cachers in my area have been very friendly and helpful and fortunately I don't know of anyone where I live that has had a stamp go missing. I, and the other boxers I know in our area, consider cachers to be like cousins. We're all on a treasure hunt; we just go about it in a different way and have a different reward in the end. Boxers consider the stamps works of art, as most are hand carved. Some are quite incredible!

 

If you contact the boxer, you may get a very warm response! Any time the participants of both sports can help each other out is good. Most letterboxers put the name of the box on the front cover or inside the front cover of the logbook. Atlas Quest and LbNA (letterboxing.org) both support searches by name. (And, I have to say that lots of boxers actually try to look to see if there are caches nearby before planting. I have found that difficult since I'm not accustomed to how this site is set up. Maybe I need a caching buddy and we can run checks for each other?)

 

I also like the idea of putting a note in the letterbox and the geocache. I think if found a box with a note that there was a cache nearby, I'd go find that, too! I think the notes would be a good way to introduce a letterboxer to geocaching and vice versa.

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...it's conceivable that letterboxers could find my cache and walk away disappointed, thinking the stamp had been stolen.

 

The odds of a geocacher trading out the letterbox stamp are actually pretty good. :laughing:

 

The letterboxers know the stamp HAS to stay with the letterbox because it is essential to the activity of letterboxing.

When a geocacher finds a letterbox near a geocache site they often assume it is the geocache. They see the stamp and it is a "good item" for a "geocache" so they trade it out, often for a few dollar store items.

After trading out the stamp they sign the Letterbox log book and add something like "Took stamp, left rubber ball and glowstick, TFTH."

 

That tends to get the letterboxers upset with the geocachers.

True that.

 

For the OP:

They dont' co-exist well. If the letterbox was there first, you should move your cache to prevent confusion, as a courtesy to the letterbox owner. If your cache was there first, and you can find the owner I'd give them a chance to do the right thing. If they don't, at least they have assumed the risk that their stamp will come up MIA and a buch of cachers will sign the stampbook (assuming you don't want to be doubly nice and fix their problem by moving your cache anyway). Caches co-exist with letterboxes better than vice versa.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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I recently went to check on one of my geocaches and Found letterbox near it. Like 9 feet away. I have looked and looked to find this letterbox on the sight and did not find. How do i find out if this is with in the guidelines of Geocaching So I can leave the letter box there or remove it. Thanks look forward to an answer lizalynn

 

Don't remove it. It's not yours. How would you like it if a letterboxer stole your geocache? put a note in the clues or whatever you call them saying there is a letterbox nearby. The only reason I have this account is so I can check for geocaches near my letterboxes and move them if need be so some geocacher who doesn't read the labels all over it that say "this is a letterbox", "this is not a geocache", please do not take the stamp", etc. doesn't steal my stamp. Don't take it personally, but it does happen. I hear about it all the time on Atlas Quest. Please read the labels before you take anything and rehide a letterbox as well as you would a geocache. Thank you and I'm sorry if I said anything that I shouldn't have.

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I recently went to check on one of my geocaches and Found letterbox near it. Like 9 feet away. I have looked and looked to find this letterbox on the sight and did not find. How do i find out if this is with in the guidelines of Geocaching So I can leave the letter box there or remove it. Thanks look forward to an answer lizalynn

 

Don't remove it. It's not yours. How would you like it if a letterboxer stole your geocache? put a note in the clues or whatever you call them saying there is a letterbox nearby. The only reason I have this account is so I can check for geocaches near my letterboxes and move them if need be so some geocacher who doesn't read the labels all over it that say "this is a letterbox", "this is not a geocache", please do not take the stamp", etc. doesn't steal my stamp. Don't take it personally, but it does happen....

Remember, once a cacher finds your letterbox, they are now padowan letterboxers. Their training is in your hands the moment they found your box instead of the cache.

 

Yes, the trading ethic of caching doesn't play well with the stamp. Can you attach the stamp to the letterbox? Like a bank does when they attach their pen to the counter? Both activities are growing so we know dang well we will keep crossing this path.

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I recently went to check on one of my geocaches and Found letterbox near it. Like 9 feet away. I have looked and looked to find this letterbox on the sight and did not find. How do i find out if this is with in the guidelines of Geocaching So I can leave the letter box there or remove it. Thanks look forward to an answer lizalynn

 

Don't remove it. It's not yours. How would you like it if a letterboxer stole your geocache? put a note in the clues or whatever you call them saying there is a letterbox nearby. The only reason I have this account is so I can check for geocaches near my letterboxes and move them if need be so some geocacher who doesn't read the labels all over it that say "this is a letterbox", "this is not a geocache", please do not take the stamp", etc. doesn't steal my stamp. Don't take it personally, but it does happen....

Remember, once a cacher finds your letterbox, they are now padowan letterboxers. Their training is in your hands the moment they found your box instead of the cache.

 

Yes, the trading ethic of caching doesn't play well with the stamp. Can you attach the stamp to the letterbox? Like a bank does when they attach their pen to the counter? Both activities are growing so we know dang well we will keep crossing this path.

 

Hmm... attaching the stamp to the box sounds like a really good idea. I know that sometimes people do that with letterboxes in film canisters, but I never thought of doing that with a larger box. For the record, I don't think all cachers are stamp thieves, but there are some individuals withing the caching community who don't read the labeling on the box, which causes some letterboxers to assume all geocachers are that way.

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Hmm... attaching the stamp to the box sounds like a really good idea. I know that sometimes people do that with letterboxes in film canisters, but I never thought of doing that with a larger box. For the record, I don't think all cachers are stamp thieves, but there are some individuals withing the caching community who don't read the labeling on the box, which causes some letterboxers to assume all geocachers are that way.

 

...just as there are boxers (and cachers) that don't label their hides well. It's all about all us playing our games better when both hiding and finding.

 

My wife found a cache once that was an arm's length away from a letterbox that she was looking for- the cache on one side of the tree and the letterbox on the other.

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ahoy...***smiling and waving*** ;)

i Letterbox and GeoCache. i check both sites before i plant either a box or a cache. i try and make sure that my boxes are at least 50' away from a cache. And vice versa. i understand that caching has a much wider berth for planting. Letterboxing has no measurement stipulations, but does have a "gentleman's agreement" on how close you should plant boxes. i usually find many more caches while boxing than the opposite. i believe that there is plenty of room for both hobbies. Respect for the plants by both factions makes for less missing boxes/caches. (we won't even mention muggles...UGH!)

 

Did you know there are even Letterbox/Geocache hybrids? Yes its true. A Letterbox and a Geocache in the same container! Hopefully more hybrids will be planted as everyone understands each hobby better.

 

NOW!!! Get out there and find! :D

deniserows

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Yeah, suck me into creating an account just so I can post. Knew it would happen one of these days.... =)

 

I generally don't worry too much about geocaches near my letterboxes. If they are near geocaches, they're finding the caches before they discover my boxes because I almost never hear reports of geocachers finding the box. (Most of the time, I find out because geocachers will still sign the logbook.)

 

I'll make a special point of mentioning in the logbook that they found a letterbox and NOT a geocache if one of my boxes does get found regularly by geocachers, and not to take the stamp. Knock on wood--none of my stamps have ever gone missing.

 

The strangest geocaching/letterboxing incident one of my boxes had--I planted a box in a hole in a tree a number of years back. A couple of years later, I went to check up on the box and discovered another container in the *exact* same hold--someone put a geocache in it! I'm not sure how someone could have planted a cache in that hole without realizing there was already a letterbox in it, but I filled the cache full of Atlas Quest mini pencils and left it there. =) Made sure there was a note in the letterbox logbook to let people know there was also a geocache in the hole (in case that's what they were really looking for) and a note in the geocaching logbook to note that there was also a letterbox in the hole (in case that's what they were really looking for).

 

So far as I know, the letterbox and geocache still share that same hole in the tree and there's never been a problem with it. *shrug*

 

Then there was a letterbox I found, and a geocacher had found the box leaving a message like, "Give, people, give! There's no swag in this letterbox except a stamp. I'm going to leave the stamp for someone else, and am adding a lighter, pencil, and whatever." (I'm paraphrasing here.) I couldn't help but think it hilariously funny--the guy even wrote the word "letterbox" in his message, so he had clearly read the logbook. Must have just assumed it was another word for geocache. (And thank goodness he "thoughtfully" left the stamp behind!) I ended up tearing out that page from the logbook, fearing that other geocachers who stumbled onto the letterbox might mistake his note as approval to take the stamp. Then I wrote a note in the box saying it was a letterbox and NOT a geocache.

 

I'm rambling, but if you do find a letterbox while looking for a geocache, I'd make a point of writing in the logbook a note to let finders know that they found a letterbox rather than a geocache and not to take the stamp. If you found it, it's very likely other geocachers will find it too. While most might know better than to take the stamp, it only takes one uninformed person to turn it into a bad situation. The person who plants the letterbox may not have any idea the geocache is nearby (I'm too lazy to check when I plant my boxes, and I know I'm not the only one), but I can't imagine any letterboxer would be offended if you wrote a note in the logbook warning other geocachers that they didn't find the geocache and not to take the stamp. And it could help avoid almost all of the problems letterboxers have with geocachers.

 

Happy trails!

 

-- Ryan

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While most might know better than to take the stamp, it only takes one uninformed person to turn it into a bad situation.

 

Having started out letterboxing and then making the move to caching (the wife still letterboxes) I've been armed with the concept of what the stamp is for ahead of time. It never hurts to spread the word to those cachers that are unaware of the stamp.

 

But, since your making the effort to extent the olive branch of ambassadorship, could you deliver a message back to your native boxing forums? Letterboxers: those little items with the shiny metal tags attached and the really cool coins with the numbers and letters on them are not swag, they're Travel Bugs and Geocoins. Don't take them if you aren't going to log them and move them on.

 

Happy looking-for-things-in-the-woods-that-may-or-may-not-contain-stamps!

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...could you deliver a message back to your native boxing forums? Letterboxers: those little items with the shiny metal tags attached and the really cool coins with the numbers and letters on them are not swag, they're Travel Bugs and Geocoins. Don't take them if you aren't going to log them and move them on.

 

Geocoins aren't swag? Hmm.... I don't think I ever got that memo--I always assumed they were. (Not that I take them--most of the swag I've found isn't stuff I want to take in the first place! No offense meant, but it's generally not stuff I'm interested in keeping. *shrug*) I do remember finding geocoins in some caches, though, and always assumed those were swag items. What are they if they aren't swag? I don't remember seeing any numbers or letters on them. Or perhaps what I thought were geocoins really aren't? They looked like little wooden coins.

 

I can't imagine travel bugs are regularly taken by letterboxers, unless it was deliberate. The ones I've found have always had a tag on it that clearly marked it as a travel bug and that it wasn't for keeping. Seems hard to screw that up, unless the intent was deliberate.

 

Labeling the items themselves is your best bet, though. Only a tiny fraction of letterboxers actually read the message boards. (And even those that do might use Atlas Quest or the LbNA groups, but most people don't seem to use both on a regular basis.) I could post regularly on these boards not to take stamps from letterboxes, but I'd just as soon have the note in the logbook itself, preferably on the front cover or the first page, warning geocachers who've found it not to take the stamp. While there's no guarantee that every single finder will read the message, it has to be more effective than posting messages on forums with the warning. I'd expect the same with travel bugs--make sure it's well-labeled as not being a swag item. And from what I've seen of them, that does seem to be the case! =) (I suppose if it wasn't very well labeled, though, I wouldn't have recognized it as a travel bug and never realized the peril that the item was in.) Labeling the item is important, though--even new geocachers could end up taking it. It only takes one person who's not considerate to keep the item for themselves, though, and those people can be found all over the place plaguing letterboxers and geocachers alike.

 

-- Ryan

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...Geocoins aren't swag? Hmm.... I don't think I ever got that memo--I always assumed they were. (Not that I take them--most of the swag I've found isn't stuff I want to take in the first place! No offense meant, but it's generally not stuff I'm interested in keeping. *shrug*) I do remember finding geocoins in some caches, though, and always assumed those were swag items. What are they if they aren't swag? I don't remember seeing any numbers or letters on them. Or perhaps what I thought were geocoins really aren't? They looked like little wooden coins....

 

It only takes one person who's not considerate to keep the item for themselves, though, and those people can be found all over the place plaguing letterboxers and geocachers alike.

 

-- Ryan

 

Geocoins can be swag, or travelers. If you find no tracking number it's swag. If you find a tracking number it may be swag or it may be a traveler. You really won't know for sure until you log it later (or read the log if it gives you a clue). If it comes up as being tracked, odds are it's a traveler. If it comes up as "can't find it" in some way. It's swag. Those are rules of thumb. You will find exceptions.

 

Experience cachers tend to learn about letterboxes. Noob's need time to learn. But you are right, it only takes one to trade out a stamp, or trade out a traveler. The good ones will learn and make things right. The bad ones...well heck, the sooner they loose interest in caching/letterboxig the better.

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Geocoins aren't swag? Hmm.... I don't think I ever got that memo---- Ryan

 

Hi Ryan

Welcome to the geocaching forums.

 

I will elaborate on the items you might find in a geocache that are important to geocachers and how to tell them apart. If it is a coin shaped item made of wood or plastic it is likely a "signature item", here are some pictures of signature items made of wood called wooden nickles. These are meant to be taken and kept. They are an item left by a geocacher to let others know they have found the cache. They aren't the only signature items that are left and usually you can spot signature items because they include some type of geocaching nickname, common items include cards, buttons, poker chips and wooden nickles. All are meant to be collectable, unique items left by a geocacher or a geocaching team. Some signature items can be very elaborate and beautiful. I have a rock placed by the cacher Deermark and it has that geocaching nickname engraved on a metal plaque which is attached to the rock, it is certainly unique!

 

Coins made of metal come in a few basic types. If the coin contains the phrase "trackable on geocaching.com" and it has a 6 digit number, it is a trackable geocoin and most of the time should be treated as a Travel Bug. If a geocoin is activated and it is in a cache the name of the owner is often included on a piece of paper found in the coin's plastic flip, this let's geocachers know that it is owned/activated and should be treated as a Travel Bug rather than a trade item. These metal geocoins come in different shapes, sizes and colours but trackable geocoins always contain a phrase that say it is trackable on geocaching.com. This is the most common type of geocoin found in a geocache. It is owned by a geocacher and other geocachers will help move it from geocache to geocache and the owner can see these movements and read the logs on the geocaching.com website.

 

On occasion a coin containing a tracking code and using the phrase "trackable on geocaching.com" may be unactivated. There will be no evidence that it is owned by another geocacher. If you try and use the number to track the geocoin on the geocaching.com website will tell you that the item has not been activated. If you find one of these items in a geocache it is intended as a trade item and it is worth roughly ten dollars. An item of similar value should be left in it's place if you are taking it. It is rather rare to find unactivated geocoins in caches but they are often left as a prize for the First to Find (the FTF). If there is a blank logbook then it is likely that a trackable geocoin found was intended as a prize for the first geocacher to take and it is not a trade item.

 

If a metal geocoin is found in a geocache and it doesn't contain the phrase "trackable on geocaching.com" then it is a non-trackable geocoin and these are sometimes left by geocachers as trade items. These geocoins can be traded out but they should be treated as an item of $6 to $8 value.

 

There are a few geocoins that can be tracked on other websites but geocachers tend to be site centric and often don't log items tracked elsewhere, most geocachers will log trackable geocoins, they get a special icon that tells others they have moved that geocoin and their total count of trackable items Moved/Discovered increases as well.

 

I would guess it is 98% owned/activated and only 2% are swag.

 

So that is the crash course for any Letterboxers who are reading and it might even help the new geocachers figure out what to do when they find a geocoin.

Edited by wavector
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