Residents evacuated over bomb scare in borough.

[+Happy Humphrey]

This is why it is wise to put "www,geocaching.com" on the side of any cache, could save our game!

Even if it's a Navicache?

[+007BigD]

$1600 bucks? I think we should all get together on this one and pay the bill. I say we pool our pennies. Seriously, let's send them 160,000 pennies. I wounder how long it'll take to get that many pennies together? Or how much they would weigh?

 

Yeah, I like the pooling together idea...but I'd be willing to wager they wouldn't take pennies. You'll say it's money, well, even banks won't take that many and certainly not unrolled!

Very generous idea...Thanks for thinkin of me, but theres a thousand other places charity funds would be better off going. At least I still have a job and when it comes down to it, I am sure there are payment options should my appeal fall through the floor. In hindsite, I should have done a few things differently with that placement.

 

What sucks is that it took them 6 months to get the bill to me, so I thought I was all said and done, but NOOOOOOO. I do like the idea of 1100 lbs of pennies dropped on their lap though...Thats Great! HEY...Its US Currency! ... Im savin my pennies!

[+007BigD]

There should be some sort of Bomb Squad registery, where all the caches that get blown up can be viewed in one place.

 

It may help if you do stumble across a cache that has bomb-like characteristics, to show the owner how important it is that a cache container NOT look like a bomb, even if it was totally unintentional. I didnt think twice about my cache! ... nor did any finders ever mention anything. No excuses, but just think it would be a cool feature to access a list of caches that have been paid a visit by Bomb Squads... I KNOW theres a bunch!

[Clan Riffster]

As an LEO, I'd like to applaud Coyote Red for his evaluation of the process involved prior to blowing something up. Decisions are made all the way up the chain of command. With the power to make these decisions comes responsibility. Something CalTrans seems to have forgotten. To review:

 

007BigD decided to hide a cache. Statistically speaking, his location was perfectly legal for this game.

A CalTrans worker found the cache and decided to call 911.

The initial responder reviewed the cache and decided to pass the buck up to his supervisor.

The supervisor decided to pass the buck to his watch commander.

The watch commanded decided to deploy the bomb squad.

The bomb squad decided to secure the cache by blowing it up.

(note: in bomb squad vernacular, "secure" means to make safe. You don't need to blow something up to render it safe)

 

CalTrans lost a lot of man hours due to this chain of decisions, which could've been stopped anywhere along the way.

(naturally, that would require the application of common sense, a rare element in today's society)

CalTrans is trying to charge 007BigD for someone else's decision.

[+Kit Fox]

$1600 bucks? I think we should all get together on this one and pay the bill. I say we pool our pennies. Seriously, let's send them 160,000 pennies. I wounder how long it'll take to get that many pennies together? Or how much they would weigh?

 

Why should we help out someone that chose to hide a container like this underneath a hwy bridge?

 

[+007BigD]

$1600 bucks? I think we should all get together on this one and pay the bill. I say we pool our pennies. Seriously, let's send them 160,000 pennies. I wounder how long it'll take to get that many pennies together? Or how much they would weigh?

 

Why should we help out someone that chose to hide a container like this underneath a hwy bridge?

 

Here we go again! As I stated... THEY SHOULDNT!!! Let it be a lesson learned... I dont want to get into detail about the hide, the container or the logistics behind placement!

 

Not one person here knows anything about the placement...furthermore, it wasnt even under the bridge!!! Its just too much to try to displace thoughts that have been imbedded into peoples heads here...Theres always a Why, How and If for every response posted! ...Its inevitable.

 

Bottom Line... Lesson learned and 7-8 months later, I still deal with the consequences!!! Live and Learn!

[+sbell111]

Holy crap, talk about PARANOID! Why do you guys think everyone's out to bomb you?

Because that's what Cheney keeps telling us.

[+Kit Fox]

Here we go again! As I stated... THEY SHOULDNT!!! Let it be a lesson learned... I dont want to get into detail about the hide, the container or the logistics behind placement!

 

I was responding to GOF & Bocall, not directly to you.

 

 

Not one person here knows anything about the placement...furthermore, it wasnt even under the bridge!!!

 

From your cache page:

 

"Cache is Located along Hwy 101 Northbound, Tucked away amongst the Arnold Overhead Bridge. Can walk right to it, but is not Wheelchair accessible. You are looking for the coolest cache container in the history of Cachekind, that perhaps still may pose Ammocan characteristics. Cache itself is rather fragile, so please retrieve and replace with care. If anything happens to it, plase inform me, but should hold up well. "

 

Again, I appreciate the fact you took responsibility for your cache, and would rather have funds directed towards charity, rather than for paying the bill. I respect you for that.

[CoyoteRed]

Not one person here knows anything about the placement...furthermore, it wasnt even under the bridge!!!

Oh, Oh! I remember that now!

 

Yep, you got a raw deal. Folks are too quick to rush to judge. (I'm guilty of that sometimes.) I curious, exactly how far away from the roadway was the cache? The online maps vary from vendor to vendor, and from type to type, so we can't really tell exactly where it was.

[+TrailGators]

Some will scoff at this but perhaps this article from a terrorist expert will help some of you someday. We all need to live our lives not being paranoid but that doesn't mean that we have to bury our heads in the sand.

 

Juval Aviv was the Israeli Agent upon whom the movie 'Munich' was based. He was Golda Meir's bodyguard--she appointed him to track down and bring to justice the Palestinian terrorists who took the Israeli athletes hostage and killed them during the Munich Olympic Games. In a lecture in New York City a few weeks ago, he shared information that EVERY American needs to know--but that our government has not yet shared with us. (Aviv's bio is noted at end.) Forget hijacking airplanes, because he says terrorists will NEVER try and hijack a plane again as they know the people onboard will never go down quietly again. Aviv believes our airport security is a joke--that we have been reactionary rather than proactive in developing strategies that are truly effective. For example(s):

1) Our airport technology is outdated. We look for metal, and the new explosives are made of plastic.

2) He talked about how some idiot tried to light his shoe on fire. Because of that, now everyone has to take off their shoes. A group of idiots tried to bring aboard liquid explosives. Now we can't bring liquids on board. He says he's waiting for some suicidal maniac to pour liquid explosive on his underwear; at which point, security will have us all traveling naked! Every strategy we have is 'reactionary.'

3) We only focus on security when people are heading to the gates.

 

Aviv says that if a terrorist attack targets airports in the future, they will target busy times on the front end of the airport when/where people are checking in. It would be easy for someone to take two suitcases of explosives, walk up to a busy check-in line, ask a person next to them to watch their bags for a minute while they run to the restroom or get a drink, and then detonate the bags BEFORE security even ge ts involved. In Israel, security checks bags BEFORE people can even ENTER the airport.

 

Aviv says the next terrorist attack here in America is imminent and will involve suicide bombers and non-suicide bombers in places where large groups of people congregate. (i. e., Disneyland, Las Vegas casinos, big cities (New York, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.) and that it will also include shopping malls, subways in rush hour, train stations, etc., as well as rural America this time (Wyoming, Montana, etc.). The attack will be characterized by simultaneous detonations around the country (terrorists like big impact), involving at least 5-8 cities, including rural areas. Aviv says terrorists won't need to use suicide bombers in many of the larger cities, because at places like the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, they can simply valet park a car loaded with explosives and walk away.

 

Aviv says all of the above is well known in intelligence circles, but that our U. S. government does not want to 'alarm American citizens' with the facts. Aviv also predicts that the U. S. will attack Iran & Syria BEFORE Bush leaves office. Since our troop force is stretched at the moment, the U.S. will likely resort to using small, strategic nuclear weapons, even though the headlines the next day will read 'US Nukes Islamic World'.

 

The world is quickly going to become 'a different place,' and issues like 'global warming' and political correctness will become totally irrelevant. On an encouraging note, he says that Americans don't have to be concerned about being nuked. Aviv says the terrorists who want to destroy America will not use sophisticated weapons. They like to use suicide as a front-line approach. It's cheap, it's easy, it's effective; and they have an infinite abundance of young militants more than willing to 'meet their destiny.' He also says the next level of terrorists, over which America should be most concerned, will not be coming from abroad. But will be, instead, 'homegrown' - having attended and been educated in our own schools and universities right here in the U. S. He says to look for 'students' who frequently travel back and forth to the Middle East. These young terrorists will be most dangerous because they will know our language and will fully understand the habits of Americans; but that we Americans won't know/understand a thing about them.

 

Aviv says that, as a people, Americans are unaware and uneducated about the terrorist ic threats we will, inevitably, face. America still has only have a handful of Arabic and Farsi speaking people in our intelligence networks, and Aviv says it is critical that we change that fact - SOON.

 

So, what can America do to protect itself?

 

From an intelligence perspective, Aviv says the U.S. needs to stop relying on satellites and technology for intelligence. We need to, instead, follow Israel's, Ireland's and England's hands-on examples of human intelligence, both from an infiltration perspective as well as to trust 'aware' citizens to help. We need to engage and educate ourselves as citizens; however, our U. S. government continues to treat us, its citizens, 'like babies.' Our government thinks we 'can't handle the truth' and are concerned that we'll panic if we understand the reali ties of terrorism. Aviv says this is a deadly mistake.

 

Aviv recently created/executed a security test for our Congress, by placing an empty briefcase in five well-traveled spots in five major cities. The results? Not one person called 911 or sought a policeman to check it out. In fact, in Chicago, someone tried to steal the briefcase! In comparison, Aviv says that citizens of Israel are so well 'trained' that an unattended bag or package would be reported in seconds by citizen(s) who know to publicly shout, 'Unattended Bag.' The area would be quickly & calmly cleared by the citizens themselves. But, unfortunately, America hasn't been yet 'hurt enough' by terrorism for their government to fully understand the need to educate its citizens or for the government to understand that it's their citizens who are, inevitably, the best first-line of defense against terrorism.

 

Aviv also was concerned about the high number of children here in America who were in preschool and kindergarten after 9/11, who were 'lost' without parents being able to pick them up, and about our schools that had no plan in place to best care for the students until parents could get there. (In New York City, this was days, in some cases!) He stresses the importance of having a plan, that's agreed upon within your family, to respond to in the event of a terroristic emergency. He urges parents to contact their children's schools and demand that the schools, too, develop plans of actions, as they do in Israel. Does your family know what to do if you can't contact one another by phone? Where would you gather in an emergency? He says we should all have a plan that is easy enough for even our youngest children to remember and follow.

 

Aviv says that the U.S. government has in force a plan that, in the event of another terrorist attack, will immediately cut-off EVERYONE's ability to use cell phones, blackberries, etc., as this is the preferred communication source used by terrorists and is often the way that their bombs are detonated. How will you communicate with your loved ones in the event you cannot speak? You need to have a plan.

 

Aviv's bio:

Juval Aviv holds an M.A. in Business from Tel Aviv University and is President and CEO of Interfor, Inc., an international corporate intelligence and investigations firm. Interfor, Inc. is now based in New York, with offices around the world. It was founded in 1979 and provides foreign and domestic intelligence services to legal, corporate and financial communities around the world. Interfor, Inc. also conducts investigations into terrorism and Mr. Aviv now serves as a special consultant to the U. S. Congress, and other policy makers, here within the U. S. on issues of terrorism, fraud and money laundering.

 

Interfor's services encompass white-collar crime investigations, asset search and recovery, corporate due diligence, litigation support, fraud investigations, internal compliance investigations and security and

vulnerability assessments.

 

Since its inception, Interfor's asset investigation services have recovered over $2 billion worldwide for its clients. A leading authority on terrorist networks, Mr. Aviv served as lead investigator for Pan Am Airways into the Pan Am 103-Lockerbie terrorist bombing. He was featured in the recent film, Munich, as the leader of the Israeli team that tracked down the terrorists who kidnapped the Israeli Olympic team.

 

Before founding Interfor, Mr. Aviv served as an officer in the Israel Defense Force (Major, retired) leading an elite Commando/Intelligence Unit, and was later selected by the Israeli Secret Service (Mossad) to participate in a number of intelligence special operations, serving in many countries in the late 1960s and 1970s.

 

While working as a consultant with El Al, Mr. Aviv surveyed the existing security measures in place and updated El Al's security program, making El Al the safest airline in business today.

 

Most recently, Mr. Aviv wrote a book entitled, 'Staying Safe: The Complete Guide to Protecting Yourself, Your Family, and Your Business.' (2004, Harper Resource)

 

He has been a featured guest on ABC Nightline, FOX News, CNN, BBC Newsnight, ZDF (German National Television) and RAI (Italian National Television)--and has been featured in numerous articles in major magazines and newspapers worldwide.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Why should we help out someone that chose to hide a container like this underneath a hwy bridge?

 

What's wrong with that container? Looks like a bunch of circuit boards assembled into a container at the cost of a lot more time than using handy materials. In other words the only reason a bomb maker would use it is because that camo worked for their specific application.

 

Seems legit.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+007BigD]

Alright...You wanna know, I aint got nothin to hide (except its reinstatement )... Its just that this situation was really hard to deal with, from every which way. I got flamed here on the forums, the topics were driven horribly off-topic and I was front page news on 3 different occasions in 2 newspapers (we live in a small community) I got it from co-workers, the superintendant and everybody who heard, which everybody did... I am still known as the 101 Geobomber!!!

 

It got totally "Blown" out of proportion... the papers said I had wires going into the ground from the container and that there was even a battery attached to the device. Not True!... It was bad!

 

As far as the placement goes it was placed at a side road offshoot at the end of the bridge (picture a bridge with a road shooting perpendicular off one end) It was an isolated section of 101 bout 15 miles from anything and the road it was on is gated about 200-300 feet in.

The cache was placed at the beginning of where the side road would meet up with the bridge, on th eother side of the barrier, in about a 8" gap from the ground to the barrier/road, it was probably 20 feet from the Hwy Bridge. It was nowhere near any kind of main support (as stated in the paper)

 

Here is a pic of a finder who is standing on the barrier by the sign and about 3 feet in front of the cache hide (hidden below and behind him) The pic is taken from this offshoot road at the end of the bridge.

 

 

All in all, it was a poor decision to place THAT container in that location, even though I figured nobody would ever find it unintentionally and I wasnt really happy with th eplacement anyway. The container was NOT marked on the outside It was originally all covered and ANYBODY who found it would not have known what to think of it!....which was what happened. I take full responsibility for the outcome, but still think it could have been handled differently. Funny thing was they all pretty much knew it was a geocache! ...just had no way to varify or even cared to...they insured it was safe by destroying it, which was the only approach they would have taken in any situation of the sort. (so they said)

 

Hope that helps clear things up

[knowschad]

Interesting... these police haven't yet been able to figure out who hid Manitto's (alleged) cache!

 

Police continue search for person who left geocache

Waynesboro police still don't know who left a suspicious device that resulted in an evacuation Friday in Waynesboro.

The device, which resembled an explosive, turned out to be something used in "geocaching," a game that's played on the Internet, Waynesboro Police Chief Mark King said Monday. People play the game like a treasure hunt or scavenger hunt, he said.

 

Police discovered the device on East Sixth Street near the old Landis Tool Company. A caller contacted police at 3:47 p.m. and reported a suspicious person in the area, King said.

 

The suspect appeared to be a male and was in front of the old business. He was seen taking something from the bushes. When police checked the area they found a device hanging from a tree by a thin wire.

 

King described the object as looking like a plastic Coke bottle that looked like a Christmas ball. A half-inch PVC pipe was inside the bottle. Both ends were capped.

 

There was reasonable cause to believe the object was explosive in nature, King said. Residents on Chestnut Street and South Broad Street were immediately evacuated.

 

The residents were allowed to stay at the South Potomac Fire Hall where they received assistance from the American Red Cross.

 

In addition to three bomb technicians from area law enforcement agencies, the borough received assistance from Waynesboro Fire Department, local fire police, local EMA coordinators, and Franklin County Emergency Management, among other fire and rescue personnel.

Edited December 23, 2008 by knowschad

[knowschad]

Now, here is a very refreshing twist on the subject:

 

Ventura police alerted to "suspicious" geocaching activity

 

The worldwide Global Positioning System treasure hunt called geocaching drew attention from Ventura police after someone became confused and alarmed while observing people playing.

 

Ventura Police Services Officer Laura Robinson took a report involving people who arrived in a van outside a school, and huddled around some landscaping.

 

They stared at strange devices in their hands, and pulled a box from a bush. They opened it up, took something out, and put something else back in before returning the box to the bush. That had the caller worried about what kind of contraband could be lurking inside the box.

 

Robinson had a hunch geocaching was involved because her family enjoys the pastime, but still decided it was worth investigating. “I sent an officer out to locate the box, and they were unable to locate the box. So I went to the Web site for geocaching, and was able to find that they had indeed planted a cache there, and that’s what was taking place,” says Robinson. “So it occurred to me that probably there were a lot of folks who were not familiar with geocaching, and in particular our police officers.”

 

Robinson developed a seminar on geocaching so officers would understand what’s happening if they see people playing, or bump into a cache. “I know of the propensity for folks who geocache to use either old armory boxes or other types of materials that can be camouflaged, and they might very well look suspicious or cause alarm,” says Robinson.

 

Some caches are hidden around sensitive areas like the Ventura County Government Center or popular landmarks. During Robinson’s seminar, the officers even walked outside their own station to see a nearby cache with the police-themed name of “One Adam 12. See the Man.”

 

Geocaching has only been around since 2000, when the U.S.Government made it easy for anyone to get precise longitude and latitude coordinates from GPS satellites. Now, nearly 700,000 caches around the world are registered on the Web site geocaching.com.

 

Caches vary greatly in size and shape. Some are tiny film canisters, but others might be big plastic storage containers. They typically contain a logbook and some inexpensive trinkets for exchanging. There are also virtual caches where the idea is to find a viewpoint or interesting landmark information. Some people also track the journeys of “Travel Bugs” and “Geocoins” as they’re carried on various missions between caches.

 

A code exists among participants, and the slogan “Cache in, trash out” is a pledge to clean up areas they visit. They also avoid placing caches on private property unless they have the owner’s permission.

 

The sport has caused some controversy with public land managers concerned about people trampling sensitive areas, but most seem to agree it’s a positive way to get people outside exploring new places.

 

The GPS units needed to play are becoming less expensive and more sophisticated all the time, and are bound to pop up under many Christmas trees this year.

 

Robinson says some officers thought it was a strange seminar topic, but one of them who teased her about it ended up loving the sport. “Publicly he scoffed, and then privately he came back to borrow my GPS,” says Robinson. “He took his two young sons out to geocache that weekend, and they had a blast. He went on to get his own GPS, and they’ve been doing it ever since.”

Edited December 23, 2008 by knowschad

[+Renegade Knight]

Now, here is a very refreshing twist on the subject:

...

Robinson says some officers thought it was a strange seminar topic, but one of them who teased her about it ended up loving the sport. “Publicly he scoffed, and then privately he came back to borrow my GPS,” says Robinson. “He took his two young sons out to geocache that weekend, and they had a blast. He went on to get his own GPS, and they’ve been doing it ever since.” [/i]

Very Nice

[+007BigD]

That is very nice... quite a warm holiday story!

 

I made similar contacts with the folks I dealt with, only I dont think they persued finding an actual geocache other than mine!

 

We have one active Sherriff that is a geocacher...very nice guy and boy he's been out placin caches recently!

[+Okiebryan]

Well, here's what I think.

 

I can send an invoice to anyone for anything. I cannot collect that invoice without a court judgement. Once you agree to a payment plan, you are on the hook.

 

If this were me (and but for the grace of God...), I'd inform them that I do not agree to any charges by their agency and that I will not be paying their illegitimate invoice.

 

Either it goes away, or they take you to court, where you would get to present evidence after they presented theirs.

[Clan Riffster]

There was reasonable cause to believe the object was explosive in nature, King said

I loved that line. I reckon folks in Waynseboro have a history of blowing up scragly oak trees in closed business parks.

[+Okiebryan]

There was reasonable cause to believe the object was explosive in nature, King said

I loved that line. I reckon folks in Waynseboro have a history of blowing up scragly oak trees in closed business parks.

 

I caught that one too. I was wondering what the heck gave them reasonable cause that a Christmas ornament looking coke bottle in a tree in a deserted business park was explosive in nature. Odd, maybe...but explosive?

[+JamGuys]

There was reasonable cause to believe the object was explosive in nature, King said

I loved that line. I reckon folks in Waynseboro have a history of blowing up scragly oak trees in closed business parks.

 

I caught that one too. I was wondering what the heck gave them reasonable cause that a Christmas ornament looking coke bottle in a tree in a deserted business park was explosive in nature. Odd, maybe...but explosive?

Oh, it was "Based on their experience, knowledge and training ....."

[+A Mitt]

There was reasonable cause to believe the object was explosive in nature, King said

I loved that line. I reckon folks in Waynseboro have a history of blowing up scragly oak trees in closed business parks.

Well considering Waynesboro is nearby Camp David and other government sites I don't think assuming that the item could be explosive is that crazy. This location wasn't an abandoned business park (outside of an abandoned building yes) - it in was in a residential area. Being a resident of Waynesboro and a geocacher overall I think they acted reasonable under the circumstances.

[+mvigor]

$1600 bucks? I think we should all get together on this one and pay the bill. I say we pool our pennies. Seriously, let's send them 160,000 pennies. I wounder how long it'll take to get that many pennies together? Or how much they would weigh?

 

They would weigh about 1088 pounds.

[Clan Riffster]

I think they acted reasonable under the circumstances.

I'll have to defer to your expertise of the area, as I've never been there. However, as a cop since '82, I have responded to gobs of reportedly "suspicious" objects, only a few of which ended up getting turned over to EOD. Note: Each of the items I've turned over to EOD were actual explosive devices. My "training & experience" tells me that there is no explosive compound powerful enough to cause significant harm, in a package small enough to fit inside a piece of PVC pipe, which can fit inside a Christmas Ornament Coke bottle. As there was no triggering device, receiver or power supply visible, then, (if we're still pretending it might be a bomb), one would need to assume that these items are also stuffed into the same tiny piece of PVC pipe, leaving even less room for the explosive. Assuming the most miniaturized circuit board and battery available, you'd have just enough bang to startle a Chihuahua. At that point, any one who has been a cop for more than 5 minutes would need to seriously suspend reality in order to maintain the belief that the described item was nefarious in nature.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I think they acted reasonable under the circumstances.

I'll have to defer to your expertise of the area, as I've never been there. However, as a cop since '82, I have responded to gobs of reportedly "suspicious" objects, only a few of which ended up getting turned over to EOD. Note: Each of the items I've turned over to EOD were actual explosive devices. My "training & experience" tells me that there is no explosive compound powerful enough to cause significant harm, in a package small enough to fit inside a piece of PVC pipe, which can fit inside a Christmas Ornament Coke bottle. As there was no triggering device, receiver or power supply visible, then, (if we're still pretending it might be a bomb), one would need to assume that these items are also stuffed into the same tiny piece of PVC pipe, leaving even less room for the explosive. Assuming the most miniaturized circuit board and battery available, you'd have just enough bang to startle a Chihuahua. At that point, any one who has been a cop for more than 5 minutes would need to seriously suspend reality in order to maintain the belief that the described item was nefarious in nature.

I have no law enforcement experience, but speaking as an ex-engineer-(electronics and mechanical engineering)-turned-scientist, your words above totally mirrored the exact thoughts that I had when I first read the news reports and discovered that an entire neighborhood had been evacuated and EOD had been called out for such a tiny object. Their reaction was a bit bizarre!

Edited December 24, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Jedi Cacher]

I don't know how common these bomb scare geocache occurrences are, but makes you kind of wonder if one day geocaching could be banned due to due to bomb scare incidents like this.

 

Also I was reading an article a few months back about geocaches causing problems for the Wyoming Highway Patrol due to cachers stopping on the shoulder of the interstate to jump out and retrieve a cache. It's things like this that could one day ruin the game-sport that we all love. You just gotta use common sense on where to place a cache and the proper container.

[+Tahoein' Bunch]

What kind of Dip would stop on an Interstate to get a cache, or place one thats one of those that gets IGNORE if placed and comes up.

[+Frank Broughton]

Caltrans? Methinks there is more to the story than you have told us. Perhaps within that story is a logical reason why he should be on the hook for the charges.

Basically the charges are for the equipment time and Man Hours lost during the incident. There was a road crew that was doing repairs and when the container was discovered the whole operation shut down forcing the (snip) d that way is to destroy it.

 

Doesnt matter if its a flashlight or a buzzing electrical box, if they are called... they will ensure that the object is of no harm by displacing it in any fashion they seem deemed.

 

Ill try to touch on this a little more later

 

Just have them claim it as training time!

[+SgtMikal]

I think they acted reasonable under the circumstances.

I'll have to defer to your expertise of the area, as I've never been there. However, as a cop since '82, I have responded to gobs of reportedly "suspicious" objects, only a few of which ended up getting turned over to EOD. Note: Each of the items I've turned over to EOD were actual explosive devices. My "training & experience" tells me that there is no explosive compound powerful enough to cause significant harm, in a package small enough to fit inside a piece of PVC pipe, which can fit inside a Christmas Ornament Coke bottle. As there was no triggering device, receiver or power supply visible, then, (if we're still pretending it might be a bomb), one would need to assume that these items are also stuffed into the same tiny piece of PVC pipe, leaving even less room for the explosive. Assuming the most miniaturized circuit board and battery available, you'd have just enough bang to startle a Chihuahua. At that point, any one who has been a cop for more than 5 minutes would need to seriously suspend reality in order to maintain the belief that the described item was nefarious in nature.

OK...I have yet to weigh in on this, but now is the time. I am one of the three cachers who found this one before it was "removed." I agree with A Mitt and can't really blame the LEO's for erring on the side of caution. I also agree with Clan Riffster that they probably should have realized the minimal risk and not caused quite as much upheaval as they did. I am also a former police officer, and do not think that even MacGyver could have housed enough explosives in that container to cause the damage that they supposedly feared. (tongue-in-cheek)

 

Personally, I think that this was simply an unfortunate misunderstanding that was compounded by weather conditions as well as by timing. If it had not been raining at the time, then the suspicious neighbor might have been more likely to come outside and say, "Hey! What are you doing over there?" Then, the game, and situation could have been explained. And if the last cacher had been there for about three more minutes, the police would have arrived and could have asked the same question, received a legitimate explanation, and the bomb squad would never have had to be called.

 

I do not blame the neighbor for being overly suspicious - that is the purpose of Neighborhood Watch Programs, isn't it? I don't blame the police for over-reacting - their purpose is to PROTECT and SERVE, right? Erring on the side of caution is always best.

 

Just my $0.02.

[+JohnnyVegas]

Once again it looks like a cache that has not been labeled as a cache. Don't blame the police but, they should really learn what this game is all about and where the caches are.

And how are they to know it is a geocache?

writing geocache on the outside would only help if the LEO know what the word geocache means. And what if some crazy bomber were to write geocache on the outside a real bomb?

Having the cache explanation inside the cache does not do any good. They are not going to open the container to see what is inside before the destroy it.

 

Over the years I have seen a large increase in the numbers of times a bomb squad has been called in to investigate a geocache that was beleived to be a bomb. The problem as I see it is that cachers should ask them selves,

Does this container look like a bomb? I have seen caches that are made with a peice PVC and also made with steel pipe that have a cap on each end. I blame the cachers that place these caches for not thinking before they place a cache

It is bad enough that there are park officials in some areas that are anti geocaching. We do not need to have cities looking at geocaching as a problem.

[+The Jester]

Once again it looks like a cache that has not been labeled as a cache. Don't blame the police but, they should really learn what this game is all about and where the caches are.

And how are they to know it is a geocache?

writing geocache on the outside would only help if the LEO know what the word geocache means. And what if some crazy bomber were to write geocache on the outside a real bomb?

Having the cache explanation inside the cache does not do any good. They are not going to open the container to see what is inside before the destroy it.

 

Over the years I have seen a large increase in the numbers of times a bomb squad has been called in to investigate a geocache that was beleived to be a bomb. The problem as I see it is that cachers should ask them selves,

Does this container look like a bomb? I have seen caches that are made with a peice PVC and also made with steel pipe that have a cap on each end. I blame the cachers that place these caches for not thinking before they place a cache.

It is bad enough that there are park officials in some areas that are anti geocaching. We do not need to have cities looking at geocaching as a problem.

But what does a bomb look like? It can be anything, so the answer is always "Yes, this looks like a bomb." Most of the caches I've heard about causing a bomb squad call-out are not pipe shaped - ammo cans, decon container, and such. I think this comment is used in every thread and one of the LEO cachers generally come on and counter that thinking.

Edited January 2, 2009 by The Jester

[+sbell111]

Interesting... these police haven't yet been able to figure out who hid Manitto's (alleged) cache!

Something tells me that teh manhunt for the geocache owner is not very high on their priority list.

Now, here is a very refreshing twist on the subject:

 

Ventura police alerted to "suspicious" geocaching activity

 

... Robinson had a hunch geocaching was involved because her family enjoys the pastime, but still decided it was worth investigating. “I sent an officer out to locate the box, and they were unable to locate the box. ...”

This just proves that the best way to keep a cache from getting blown up is to keep it from being found by non-geocachers.

[+sbell111]

"Does it look like a bomb?"

I guess it sorta does, but doesn't everything?

Edited January 2, 2009 by sbell111

[+Cuddlefish]

Holy crap, talk about PARANOID! Why do you guys think everyone's out to bomb you?

 

I know. Reading this from Canada makes me a little freaked out at some of the people living down south of us. They are either quite paranoid or justified because of the number of bombs placed in urban settings.

[+Aix sponsa]

More of the same sentiments. With urban caches, serious thought needs to be considered about the appearance of the cache and where it is hidden. Responsibility is an important attribute for a cacher. On the other hand how many of us have kicked a can or bottle laying in the road or have seen trash that has been tossed into the bushes? We don't generally call the police to check out trash. There has been plenty of information about caching in the media, so I think a little more common sense from all parties is in order. Luckily, I spend most of my time in the backwoods where I can find larger PVC pipes (not in Coke bottles) without concern, except whether or not I can get them open. One froze shut and I left a note for the next cacher to please sign the log for me and put my card inside. Sometimes the screw top is a bit large for my hands. So far by raw determination, I've opened all the others. The PVC caches are usually in a log or under rocks and at least half an hour's walk from any major road. I don't think that any of them has been mistaken for a pipe bomb. One ammo can was, but rather than call the police (the cache was in a wooded area) curiosity overtook the muggles. They had to check it out. They signed the log telling about their experience. It was great fun to read.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Aix sponsa

[+SgtMikal]

Interesting... these police haven't yet been able to figure out who hid Manitto's (alleged) cache!

Something tells me that teh manhunt for the geocache owner is not very high on their priority list.

 

Actually, I have spoken to Manitto about this one. The police have everyone's names, but are not releasing any of them because no crime has been committed. That quote above, indicating the search was ongoing, is in the newspaper from a town about 15 miles away. That is not accurate information. Actually, after Manitto found out about hte situation, he went to the police station on his own accord and spoke to one that he knew. He provided a map of the town, indicating every cache in the town, and explained the whole situation. They came to a mutual agreement that the containers in this series should be changed.

 

The key words here were that no crime was committed, so no names are being released.

[+Renegade Knight]

There was reasonable cause to believe the object was explosive in nature, King said

I loved that line. I reckon folks in Waynseboro have a history of blowing up scragly oak trees in closed business parks.

It's very clear that police of all varieties practice risk communications. Geocachers should be doing the same. (one of these days I'll actually get the right folks together to work on this).

[+Harry Dolphin]

Holy crap, talk about PARANOID! Why do you guys think everyone's out to bomb you?

 

I know. Reading this from Canada makes me a little freaked out at some of the people living down south of us. They are either quite paranoid or justified because of the number of bombs placed in urban settings.

 

I can think of one in St. Stephen, NB, that got blown up in August. (We had found it in June.)

[+Glenn]

More of the same sentiments. With urban caches, serious thought needs to be considered about the appearance of the cache and where it is hidden.

I wonder if the people investigating this were thinking it may be something like a Dry Ice Soda Bottle Bomb.

Responsibility is an important attribute for a cacher. On the other hand how many of us have kicked a can or bottle laying in the road or have seen trash that has been tossed into the bushes? We don't generally call the police to check out trash.

When someone sees trash in the bushes they either ignore it or retrieve it. Poking around in the bushes, removing some "trash" and then putting the "trash" back in appears suspicious to most people.

There has been plenty of information about caching in the media, so I think a little more common sense from all parties is in order. Luckily, I spend most of my time in the backwoods where I can find larger PVC pipes (not in Coke bottles) without concern, except whether or not I can get them open.

Urban and suburban caching isn't going away and stuff that happens in the urban and suburban caching environment does have an affect on rural and back country caching.

One froze shut and I left a note for the next cacher to please sign the log for me and put my card inside. Sometimes the screw top is a bit large for my hands. So far by raw determination, I've opened all the others. The PVC caches are usually in a log or under rocks and at least half an hour's walk from any major road. I don't think that any of them has been mistaken for a pipe bomb. One ammo can was, but rather than call the police (the cache was in a wooded area) curiosity overtook the muggles. They had to check it out. They signed the log telling about their experience. It was great fun to read.