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Sorry state of affairs for handheld GPS (rant)


supergerardo

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Didn't Magellan already take a shot at the MP3 / Camera / GPS / Flashlight concept with predictable results?

 

As for the cell phones, I think I had my first one back in like '86 and the first GPS around '97 or so. My latest GPS and phone work way better, the batteries last longer, etc.... but they aren't the be-all, end-all.

 

At any rate, I think the OP is either clueless about developing commercial and consumer electronics, or is most likely just trolling.

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Thanks for driving my point across. The market for GPS was around for 2 decades but didn't TAKE OFF UNTIL THE 90'S. Are you paying attention? That's heavily consumer driven for less than the past decade.

 

Cell phone usage... 1987 to 2008... ummmm more than two decades. Hello? Can you hear me now? It took that long for both technologies to get where they are at today.

 

 

I'm glad we have reached an agreement. Yes, consumer use of phones and gps units did not take off until the late 90's.

 

Did you have a cell phone in 1987? I doubt it. How about a GPS? Even if you had an offshore boat you would have probably been using Loran C.

 

Odds are you also didn't have a cell phone in 1997, unless it was for business. I know I didn't have a cell phone in 1997 and neither did anyone I knew.

 

Cellphones did not become commonplace until the late 90's, much like gps.

 

Again, this graph backs up my assertion:

 

cell usage

 

 

I hate to break it to ya, but the Delorme screen is 65,000 colors. That's high resolution. Not screen size. You're not paying much attention are ya?

 

 

# of colors have nothing to to with resolution. Read this wikipedia article:

 

Screen Resolution

 

 

 

One other thing, I commented on your waterproof argument...

 

You're wrong on a lot of assumptions you've made here.

 

Magellan, Lowrance and Delorme are all waterproofed to IPx7 standards as well as Garmin.

 

 

I said "if you want to purchase a hand held, waterproof, high resolution gps, you have to buy a Garmin."

 

This doesn't mean that other GPS units are not waterproof, it just means they don't meet all of the above requirements (specifically high resolution).

I have used a company owned cellphone from 1989 forward until sometime in 1995. I've owned a cell phone since 1992. Your graph backs my assertion the cell phones have been around for over two decades which was my argument for how long it took for the technology to evolve where it is today.

 

I specified Delorme is a high resolution screen. You argued screen size after that. Re-read the wiki.

The first paragraph in the wiki states:

The display resolution of a digital television or computer display typically refers to the number of distinct pixels in each dimension that can be displayed. It can be an ambiguous term especially as the displayed resolution is controlled by all different factors in cathode ray tube (CRT) and flat panel or projection displays using fixed picture-element (pixel) arrays.

 

For perfect example, the Magellan Meridian's screen is much larger than the Delorme's but the resolution is much lower. It has everything to do with pixels which also translates to being able to display thousands of colors. The higher the resolution, the higher number of colors it is capable of displaying properly. The Delorme is capable of 65,000 colors. You can't do that with a low resolution display without using interlacing technology and that's tough to do on a small screen and make the text readable.

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I am a back packer. For my use, I NEVER want a rechargeable battery in my unit. I want the same batteries as other equipment in my pack. In my case, I use AAA lithiums in my headlamp, and my GPS (Garmin Foretrex 101). I want the safety and redundancy of matching power sources for my equipment when I can do it.

 

I could care less about color screens and the mapping software. I carry National Geographic Topo maps I print myself (both sides) on waterproof paper and a magnetic compass with me (That doesn't require batteries). My GPS needs only to give me coordinates and waypoint storage. I can easily do a 5-7 day back packing trip on one set of AAA lithium batteries and come back with plenty of power left over.

Obviously, these are my needs. But, being the lightest unit available, the old Foretrex 101 (I even took the wrist strap off) is backpacking perfection to me.

 

The new stuff is fun. It is "cool". But, it has no place in my back pack.

 

I have an E-Trex Vista HCx, with 2 GB of maps loaded into it, including the 1:24,000 series. But, it will never be with me on a back packing trip. It's batteries don't match my Princeton Tech headlamp and it is heavier than my Foretrex 101.

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Actually both arguments are bogus <_<

Lets see If I can briefly fix it up a bit.

GPS units handhelds are relatively a new technology given its been heavily consumer driven for less than a decade. Cell phones & GPSr have been around for more than 2 decades and it took over a decade for the technology before they finally arrived to the point where they became more than just phones with simple texting technology or a screen with coords.
This is totally bogus argument. The first commercial GPS was available in 1982 and the first commercial was available in 1984. commercial cell phone and usage didn't really take off until the late 90's: commercial handhelds didn't really take off until 2001 (when selective availibility was turned off)

Mobile phone usage No graph but divide the millions in half and it would be a generus GPS reprsentation.

In addition, with the exception of the receiver portion of the of the gps there is tons of hardware developed for phones and pdas that can be used in a gps ([processors, screens and cameras can found in GPSr], video drivers, etc)

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Actually both arguments are bogus <_<

Lets see If I can briefly fix it up a bit.

GPS units handhelds are relatively a new technology given its been heavily consumer driven for less than a decade. Cell phones & GPSr have been around for more than 2 decades and it took over a decade for the technology before they finally arrived to the point where they became more than just phones with simple texting technology or a screen with coords.
This is totally bogus argument. The first commercial GPS was available in 1982 and the first commercial was available in 1984. commercial cell phone and usage didn't really take off until the late 90's: commercial handhelds didn't really take off until 2001 (when selective availibility was turned off)

Mobile phone usage No graph but divide the millions in half and it would be a generus GPS reprsentation.

In addition, with the exception of the receiver portion of the of the gps there is tons of hardware developed for phones and pdas that can be used in a gps ([processors, screens and cameras can found in GPSr], video drivers, etc)

Software development to integrate is also an issue here and not yet addressed. :ph34r:

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Resolution is a matter of pixel density, not size of screen!
Yep. iPhone & iPod Touch are 480x320 pixels at about 160dpi. Contrast and clarity, even in full sun, is outstanding. Constructive proof: it has been done.

 

What's the DPI on Garmin and DeLorme best displays?

Edited by lee_rimar
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I am a back packer. For my use, I NEVER want a rechargeable battery in my unit. I want the same batteries as other equipment in my pack. In my case, I use AAA lithiums in my headlamp, and my GPS (Garmin Foretrex 101). I want the safety and redundancy of matching power sources for my equipment when I can do it. ...

 

I have an E-Trex Vista HCx, with 2 GB of maps loaded into it, including the 1:24,000 series. But, it will never be with me on a back packing trip. It's batteries don't match my Princeton Tech headlamp and it is heavier than my Foretrex 101.

You can buy an AAA to AA battery adaptor that will allow you to use those same AAA batteries in your eTrex.

 

http://www.greenbatteries.com/battery-adapter.html

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Actually both arguments are bogus <_<

Lets see If I can briefly fix it up a bit.

GPS units handhelds are relatively a new technology given its been heavily consumer driven for less than a decade. Cell phones & GPSr have been around for more than 2 decades and it took over a decade for the technology before they finally arrived to the point where they became more than just phones with simple texting technology or a screen with coords.
This is totally bogus argument. The first commercial GPS was available in 1982 and the first commercial was available in 1984. commercial cell phone and usage didn't really take off until the late 90's: commercial handhelds didn't really take off until 2001 (when selective availibility was turned off)

Mobile phone usage No graph but divide the millions in half and it would be a generus GPS reprsentation.

In addition, with the exception of the receiver portion of the of the gps there is tons of hardware developed for phones and pdas that can be used in a gps ([processors, screens and cameras can found in GPSr], video drivers, etc)

Software development to integrate is also an issue here and not yet addressed. :

 

I still disagree with you on processors and screens. The nuvi supposedly uses a generic arm based processor and I'd imagine the colorado and oregon and pn-40 are no different. This is the same cpu architecture that is used in a lot of phones, pdas and scientific calculators. This processor probably handles menus, map drawing and other calculations, but not antenna/position calculation functions (again, this is a guess)

 

I also don't see why screens from cameras and phones aren't suitable for gps. They have similar requirements, i.e. low power consumption, visibility in varied lighting conditions, durable, etc.

 

The screen on the colorado could even be this off the shelf unit, available from digikey:

 

http://www.optrex.com/products/partdetail....9GD030J-MLW-AJN

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Ok, so you guys are right. My original suggestions for GPS improvements weren't so hot, but I wasn't suggesting that GPSes (whats the plural of that?) should be Iphone quality by now.

 

Here's a comparison of the map drawing abilities on a palm centro and the Vista HCX:

 

c5ad4a288b.jpg

 

I think it's pretty sorry that a $300 handheld GPS does a significantly worse job than a phone at drawing maps. The GPS is a dedicated mapping device, while the phone just has mapping as a bonus.

 

The centro's $49 price is probably heavily subsidized by the phone contracts sold with it, but I bet it still costs a whole lot less than the $173 it takes to make the Iphone.

 

The really interesting part of this is that Palm is a small company and they have less than half the annual revenue of Garmin! This is not crazy alien Iphone technology, this is something that garmin is more than capable of. Yes, the colorado and oregon series are capable of making maps like the centro (well, better than the centro), but at a stiff price and in a bulky package.

Edited by supergerardo
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I still disagree with you on processors and screens. The nuvi supposedly uses a generic arm based processor and I'd imagine the colorado and oregon and pn-40 are no different. This is the same cpu architecture that is used in a lot of phones, pdas and scientific calculators. This processor probably handles menus, map drawing and other calculations, but not antenna/position calculation functions (again, this is a guess)

 

I also don't see why screens from cameras and phones aren't suitable for gps. They have similar requirements, i.e. low power consumption, visibility in varied lighting conditions, durable, etc.

 

The screen on the colorado could even be this off the shelf unit, available from digikey:

 

http://www.optrex.com/products/partdetail....9GD030J-MLW-AJN

Here's where your biggest problem is. You're guessing without appropriate research. Most camera displays are not that visiible in broad daylight. Thus the viewfinder is still included for those conditions. This is not a workable solution to the GPS user.

 

Also, it doesn't matter if the CPU architecture may be the same. When integrated into a board that does something completely different under more extreme conditions (i.e. the GPS receiver), the calculated results must be accurate and fast. Calculations have to be quicker and the results have to be accurate for real time positioning or it is useless to the consumer using the device. The PN-40 was specifically designed with 2 processors to allow for fast map redraws and fast calculations.

 

The screen on the PN-40 is brighter than the Oregon and is as capable of showing thousands of colors as the Oregon is but this push for brightness and multiple processors comes at a cost to energy requirements, so it has a battery power saver mode for when it is merely tracking and not displaying.

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can anyone explain engineering trade-off to me?
Why? Did somebody use that specific expression in this thread somewhere?

 

Where trade-offs have been mentioned in this thread, I think they're more economic than engineering decisions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradeoff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Well, I'm an engineer, so I understand engineering trade-off. While lee_rimar is correct, most of the tradeoffs tend to be economic, there certainly exist trade-offs for engineering reasons. For example, the screen they chose was probably a balance of resolution, brightness and power consumption. There may have been a screen with better visibility, but the power draw was too high, or the size wasn't right, maybe the vendor was unknown and they couldn't trust the reliability, etc. You might argue that's a marketing (i.e., customer expectations) trade-off, and you may be right, but given certain constraints, engineers have to come up with the best part or design to meet the requirements. From experience, I'll tell you that there are so many vendors and parts out there it is very difficult to find the "best" one. Often you'll see the same part (or its clone) over and over again and the "best" ones have to fight to rise above the noise. A big company like Garmin should be able to do better to find good parts (or work with their vendors to create them), though...

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...there certainly exist trade-offs for engineering reasons...
Thanks, I was going to go into more depth on that but I had to take a break to shovel snow.

 

I thought I left that cr@p in Michigan when I moved a few years ago, and now Portland Oregon is buried by a record-breaking winter storm <_<

 

Anyhow, yeah - in the context of this discussion....

 

An engineering trade-off is when the engineer says "I'd really like to use THIS screen but it draws too much power. Since I don't want to use a larger battery, I'll use the next-best screen that draws less power." An economic trade-off would be picking and choosing not the absolute best design and parts, but the best ones that still allow the product to come to market at a certain price point.

 

Clearly there's quite a bit of overlap in those areas - but in consumer products* the big trade-offs are economic.

 

 

* Consumer grade - as opposed to "professional grade," military, other realms where performance requirements can over-rule cost considerations...

Edited by lee_rimar
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OK, every one can stop holding their breath. I have solved the world's problems and I am starting my own GPS company. Move over Steve Jobs, here comes SuperGerardo!

 

Our first device will use the special SuperGerardo™ heated and insulated e-paper screen. There will be an insulated outer layer and the heat will be supplied by the integrated circuits in the GPS. Here's the data sheet:

 

c12889b796.jpg

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...2. Use a lithium polymer USER REPLACEABLE battery. Preferably in a NON PROPRIETARY package such as rechargeable 3.7v cr-v3. If the Oregon or the PN-40 used a rechargeable cr-v3 battery the weight would drop by 1/2 oz and the battery life would be 70% better. ...

 

Not bad observations.

Almost univesally I see screen sizes as too small. By too small I see more room in the exising case for a bigger screen. Bigger is always better when it comes to screen size in small devices.

 

As for batteries. I much prefer unitst that take AA Rechargeable batteries of whatever kinds. Those are user replaceable and if you don't have something charged handy you can aways buy the real kind and keep on trucking.

 

Monochrome screens used to be the standard for easy to read in ambient light. Recent innovations have allowed color to work fairly well (though we seem to have taken a few steps back recently if user posts are any indication). I haven't seen a kindle in the wild. I have seen the Sony and it didn't really have a leg up on the better GPSs. Maybe Im' wrong, or maybe the kindle is that much better.

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Our first device will use the special SuperGerardo™ heated and insulated e-paper screen. There will be an insulated outer layer and the heat will be supplied by the integrated circuits in the GPS.

How do you propose to heat the screen while not contributing to the poor battery life you complained about in your original post?

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Odds are you also didn't have a cell phone in 1997, unless it was for business. I know I didn't have a cell phone in 1997 and neither did anyone I knew.

 

Cellphones did not become commonplace until the late 90's, much like gps.

 

 

Actually I did have a cellphone back in 1997. In fact I had one back in 1995. So did lots of people in urban areas.

 

And 1997 is the late 90's.

 

:)

 

While I agree that handheld GPS units could be much better, I suggest you actually purchase and / or use one for a while before you start throwing out suggestions on a topic you seem to know little about.

 

:)

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Odds are you also didn't have a cell phone in 1997, unless it was for business. I know I didn't have a cell phone in 1997 and neither did anyone I knew.

 

Cellphones did not become commonplace until the late 90's, much like gps.

 

 

Actually I did have a cellphone back in 1997. In fact I had one back in 1995. So did lots of people in urban areas.

 

And 1997 is the late 90's.

 

:)

 

While I agree that handheld GPS units could be much better, I suggest you actually purchase and / or use one for a while before you start throwing out suggestions on a topic you seem to know little about.

 

:)

 

I said odds are you didn't have a cell phone. That doesn't mean you didn't have one. I'm just saying the average person in 1997 still didn't have a cell phone.

 

And yes, by now we all know I have my head up my ***.

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Our first device will use the special SuperGerardo™ heated and insulated e-paper screen. There will be an insulated outer layer and the heat will be supplied by the integrated circuits in the GPS.

How do you propose to heat the screen while not contributing to the poor battery life you complained about in your original post?

 

This was a joke, but the concept is valid.

 

All IC's produce some measurable amount of heat. How much is produced by the circuits in a GPS? I have no idea. Is it significant? Don't know that either, but I doubt it. If your GPS had a laptop processor it would definitely be significant.

 

The point is they produce some heat. If you use this heat to warm the screen and you insulate the outside of the screen the GPS will be able to operate at a lower temperature. How much lower? 1/2 a degree? 5 degrees? No idea.

 

Also this heat would be wasted anyway, so it's not draining the batteries. Kinda like the heater in your car using waste heat from the engine.

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Ok, my thinking is still a screwed up on this heat thing. It's not waste heat. I think ALL of the energy consumed by a GPS is converted to heat, with the exception of light leaving the screen.

 

Again, I'm not an engineer, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm firmware update to install propane heater transfer element and 5 gal. tank plus a pony cart. Tee Hee Hee Hee Hee

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Our first device will use the special SuperGerardo™ heated and insulated e-paper screen. There will be an insulated outer layer and the heat will be supplied by the integrated circuits in the GPS.

How do you propose to heat the screen while not contributing to the poor battery life you complained about in your original post?

 

This was a joke, but the concept is valid.

Barely.

 

All IC's produce some measurable amount of heat. How much is produced by the circuits in a GPS? I have no idea. Is it significant? Don't know that either, but I doubt it. If your GPS had a laptop processor it would definitely be significant.
If your GPS had a laptop processor, you'd get about 20 minutes of battery life. You're also assuming that the processor is running full-speed, all the time. Modern processors do not do this - they step down in speed when they're not being maxed out to save battery and reduce heat output. In cold weather, the heat generated will be dissipated very quickly.

 

The point is they produce some heat. If you use this heat to warm the screen and you insulate the outside of the screen the GPS will be able to operate at a lower temperature. How much lower? 1/2 a degree? 5 degrees? No idea.

Insulation adds volume & mass. The temperature differential you're talking about is insignificant here - what does it matter if it drops the operating temperature floor from 25F to 20F when the temperature is below 20F for weeks on end? Or, for that matter, the temperature drops 15 degrees when a cold front pushes through while you're out for a hike?

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Well, what really get's MY goat is that there is no good, general purpose hammer! Framing hammers, tack hammers, roofing hammers, sledge hammers.... it gets so frustrating! :)

 

I use a '60 for caching and a Nuvi for driving. For one thing, I don't need to switch the '60 between on and off-road modes when jumping out of the car to go after a cache. For another, the screen on the Nuvi is very readable in the car, but would be huge in a handheld unit (not to mention how annoying the voice would be while caching... "Recalculating..." )

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Now, what would be awesome would be close collaboration between a handheld and car navigation unit. So you could find a cache on your handheld that you want to go to, and zap it over to your car unit to drive to the parking area. Come on, Garmin, you already have the ANT wireless technology and communication working between handhelds. This is not a huge leap...

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Now, what would be awesome would be close collaboration between a handheld and car navigation unit. So you could find a cache on your handheld that you want to go to, and zap it over to your car unit to drive to the parking area. Come on, Garmin, you already have the ANT wireless technology and communication working between handhelds. This is not a huge leap...

Would it not be cool if the geocaching capable Nuvi 500 / 550 series could wirelessly " chat " with the Oregon. That feature has been suggested in written communication to the powers that be. Fingers crossed at this end.

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Now, what would be awesome would be close collaboration between a handheld and car navigation unit. So you could find a cache on your handheld that you want to go to, and zap it over to your car unit to drive to the parking area. Come on, Garmin, you already have the ANT wireless technology and communication working between handhelds. This is not a huge leap...

Would it not be cool if the geocaching capable Nuvi 500 / 550 series could wirelessly " chat " with the Oregon. That feature has been suggested in written communication to the powers that be. Fingers crossed at this end.

For Pete's sake why not geocache enable the entire Nuvi line and then enable wireless communication across the entire platform

Edited by humboldt flier
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Ok, my thinking is still a screwed up on this heat thing. It's not waste heat. I think ALL of the energy consumed by a GPS is converted to heat, with the exception of light leaving the screen.

 

Again, I'm not an engineer, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, I am, and a specialist in Thermodynamics and Heat Transfer at that.

 

As far as correcting you and doing the design for you, well my consultancy fee is ..... don't even wonder about it.

 

And, no, I never had the pleasure of being in the classroom with AlGore of Global Warming fame. :)

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It's all good in the end. Hope you find something you'll be happy with until something better comes out.

 

 

Aha, you're on to something.

 

After giving it some thought, I think this is what really happened:

 

1. Supergerardo purchases a Vista HCX, thinking the map rendering will be similar in quality to Supergerardo's phone which has a similar resolution screen.

 

2. Supergerardo realizes that despite having a 256 color screen, the Vista HCX renders non-anti aliased 4 color maps that look worse than the screenshot from a Tandy 1000 (this is not a joke, here is a screenshot from a Tandy 1000). The handling of street names also makes the maps significantly less usable than the gerardo phone.

 

3. Supergerardo writes a scathing critique of handheld units on the market, even though Supergerardo has only used a few of them briefly in the store.

 

4. Supergerardo buys a Colorado 300 for $180 AR from amazon.

 

5. Supergerardo realizes that the Colorado isn't as bad as the pundits say. The screen looks good in sunlight and under clouds, even without the backlight.

 

6. Despite the minor shortcomings of the Colorado, Supergerardo is satisfied.

 

7. Supergerardo becomes interested in openstreetmap and will never be seen again in this forum (unless I have questions about my Colorado <_< ).

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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the OP is single.

 

This forum was already full of whiny, over entitled, complainers that feel if they spend "their hard earned dollars" on a product that it entitles them to join the design team, design and select the features they want, and get instant firmware upgrades and magical hardware upgrades that allow new features, while exercising their God given right to have every feature on every unit ever built included in all future units.

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BTW, can anyone explain engineering trade-off to me?

 

Sure.

Want a big screen for the Mr. Magoo's of the world? A 50" wide screen would work great. But, that's not portable. Want it portable? How portable, Pocket, Lugable?

 

Want massive battery life? A 1,000,000 mah battery would do the job, or a large enough AA battery pack (at 2500 mah per battery) would power that sucker for a heck of a long time. But it's not portable anymore.

 

The trade offs are that you can't optimze everthing. But what you can do is a reasonable job of "The largest GPS that is still pocket portable" so you can have some battery life, a screen that while small is at least usable etc. Even then there are trade offs. Want a fast processor? You just took a hit on battery life. Want the best screen for the size bar none? The affordablity may have to take a hit. Want fast response time? You can use a faster processor (and lower your battery life) or you can use a less bloated firmware (which means less features) to minimize lag.

 

Different GPS units can have different trade offs. An auto GPS isn't such a problem for power, and you can increase the screen size. What you won't do though is remove it from the rig for the trail (jeep had this option but it was an adapted handheld). A GPS that moves from car to car, but isn't for the trail can be bigger than a trail one but smaller than one dedicated for the car.

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Ok, my thinking is still a screwed up on this heat thing. It's not waste heat. I think ALL of the energy consumed by a GPS is converted to heat, with the exception of light leaving the screen.

 

Again, I'm not an engineer, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, I am, and a specialist in Thermodynamics and Heat Transfer at that....

 

Well heck. That would make your engineering trade off question rhetorical.

 

There is a great example of engineering trade off's in your own field. There has been research into using ceramic materials in diesel engines. The thermal properties do good things for diesel efficiency. The problem is that certamics are not durable in that application. The trade off is durablity or efficiency. Thus far Durability is winning. Perhaps they will figure out a more durable certamic material to use, or another material not quite as good but far more durable. For now diesels use more traditional materials, and a heck of a lot more eletronics (which takes away an advantage of diesels... by way of trade offs).

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Gotta disagree with the battery suggestion.

 

I LOVE the fact that most GPSr's use AA batteries. AA is getting to be almost the only type of battery that I keep in the house any more and they are dirt cheap compared to most other batteries.

 

I don't care about battery life as much as having readily available and cheap spare batteries when the GPSr dies.

 

This is why I've never purchased a subcompact digital camera. Most subcompacts use a special small very expensive lithium battery. Bigger cameras are more likely to just use AA batteries.

 

Keep it AA!

 

Amen! I avoid 'slim' or 'sleek' or otherwise scaled down flashlights or other electronics that are AAA dependent.

 

Seems a lot of people have market driven taste when it comes to electronic devices. While shopping for a new cell phone recently I asked a local sales rep for a durable phone that would stand up to the conditions of my work (and play) environment. Basically I needed something with some mil-spec type durability and decent battery life. After listening to my requirements the sales guy said, "Ohhh.... uh.....we don't sell those kinds of phones". :shocked: I asked, "Why not?". "Well..... we only stock phones based on the results of our demographic surveys, you know, the phones that people in this area would like." "Then, pray tell, what do you have that comes closest to meeting my requirements?" The model he offered was not too bad, so I asked about battery life, could it handle a good 10-12 hour day without having to be put on a charger? He said, "Well, with the new high resolution screen and intense graphics and high speed bandwith and the slimmed down size you just don't get that much time on the battery anymore."

 

I work and play outdoors. It is a dusty, sometimes wet, hot or cold and high vibration and impact associated lifestyle. Many devices that are popular today may be thin and light and oh so cool, but they won't last a month riding around in my pocket/holster/backpack. No doubt it would look pretty darn slick hangin off my cheek at the local deli, and it is so light I would have to snap by pocket to keep it from floating out. But if I go to use it and it only goes click-pop..blank :shocked: .... it don't look so cool and wouldn't even make a decent paper weight. :shocked:

 

It's a tool. No matter how you package it or market it, it must perform. If you take a $200,000 tricked out boat to the middle of the lake and it won't start.... you're basically floating dead in the water on pretty piece of wood. If you're really into floating and bobbing up and down in the water like a bobber then you still might manage to have a pretty good day.

 

I know, there IS a market for devices that are thinner than a politician's promise and last about as long. For those who consider crossing a large parking lot an outdoor excursion I'm sure they will perform wonderfully. Freon junkies and cubicle critters no doubt love them. Been there, done that.

 

For those of us who have escaped and find ourselves on the path (or off) less travelled, we cannot afford to carry that which merely survives from starbucks to starbucks. :shocked:

 

Very well said!

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I just can't stay away from this forum.

 

This is funny:

 

 

Seems a lot of people have market driven taste when it comes to electronic devices. While shopping for a new cell phone recently I asked a local sales rep for a durable phone that would stand up to the conditions of my work (and play) environment. Basically I needed something with some mil-spec type durability and decent battery life. After listening to my requirements the sales guy said, "Ohhh.... uh.....we don't sell those kinds of phones". :) I asked, "Why not?". "Well..... we only stock phones based on the results of our demographic surveys, you know, the phones that people in this area would like."

 

Cruise into circuit city and ask for a Mil Spec phone. :laughing:

 

 

Anyway, back to this empty space peeve of mine. Here are the innards of an oregon:

 

Oregon400t_001.jpg

 

Oregon400t_004.jpg

 

Contents? One sparsely populated circuit board, one screen, and lots of AIR.

 

Idea: Make it smaller (using the same components) and everyone who wants "something to grab on to" can stick it in a giant rubber Oregon 300 shaped pod that fits in their hand. That way everyone will be happy.

 

Also of note is the oregon has the same ARM processor as el cheapo Nuvi 205. Perhaps Garmin made it bigger to trick you into thinking you're getting more for your money.

 

Here are some examples of more efficient use of space:

 

sansa clip:

 

sandisk-sansa-clip-disassembled-13.jpg

 

I-phone:

 

EEOL_2008JUL15_EMS_RFD_STOR_INTD_NT_01a.jpg

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Garmin HAD to make the Oregon that size because you need somewhere to put a screen that size. It's "empty" compared to the iPhone because the Oregon does a lot fewer things (no audio, no phone, no wi-fi, etc.), and is not a "general purpose" computer with a dedicated video processor.

Edited by dakboy
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Geez -- could you not resize the iPhone photo?

 

Firstly, you can make any device pretty small if you want to use a multi-layer (read more expensive) circuit board. Secondly, a more dense board is harder to populate, harder to repair and more fragile. Thirdly, when the board is more dense and more complex, fewer smaller (read cheaper) shops can build them.

 

Garmin also had to make the case larger to allow for larger batteries in order to have a decent battery life and the type of antenna they chose, assuming the fat track around the perimeter of the board is the antenna.

 

My personal opinion is that Garmin has way too many different models in their stable, most likely confusing the consumer and making other brands more appealing. If they would have simply made a Colorado 300 and an Oregon 300 with the base maps and more memory, then offered the topo, marine and street maps at a better price, I think people would have been happier.

 

There are 27 Nuvi models currently on their web site. I'm sure some are probably discontinued, but stll, thats a heck of alot of different units to choose from. TomTom has 13 models.

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