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Sorry state of affairs for handheld GPS (rant)


supergerardo

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I'm not an expert and I'm not even an experienced GPS user, so take this with a grain of salt. These are just some (possibly naive) observations by someone new to the GPS market.

 

While shopping for a handheld GPS I noticed there are no ideal ALL AROUND handheld gps units, no matter how much money one has to spend. While there may have been great improvements compared to past models, handheld gps technology looks a little sorry compared to other consumer sectors such as car gps units, digital cameras, cell phones, pda's etc.

 

I'd venture to say all of the handheld devices on the market right now seem to have major shortcomings in one or more of the following areas:

 

Poor battery life

Poor screen visibility in certain lighting conditions

Low screen resolution

Larger than necessary casing (even compact models such as the etrex have lots of empty space)

Criminally bad interface software

 

Again, I'm talking all around units. Many people who swear by an Etrex/60gsx use a nuvi in the car till they get near the cache. A Vista Csx Might be great when backpacking, but navigating in an area with a dense grid of city streets is less than ideal due to the low resolution screen. An oregon might be ideal for for most situations, but try taking it on a two week backpacking trip (how many batteries would that take?)

 

So where am I going with this? Companies that have the resources to develop new, sophisticated gps units (garmin) seem to have taken their eye off the ball. Emphasis on features and eye candy have resulted in bulky, power hungry devices. They look sexy in the store, but are less than ideal for their intended purpose.

 

Here's a couple of ideas for someone who wishes to dominate the handheld GPS market:

 

1. Use an ELECTROPHORETIC SCREEN (aka "epaper") like the screen in the amazon kindle and the sony e-reader. These screens have outstanding visibility without a backlight and have extremely low power consumption (4mw - 16mw for a 5 inch screen, the kindle runs for a week on a charge). They are also high resolution, flexible (no cracking) and inexpensive (so cheap esquire used one built into a magazine cover in october). Yes, the ones available now are not color, but I believe the high resolution, high visibility and low power consumption would more make up for this deficiency.

 

FYI, if you have never seen an epaper screen in person, they look great. The first time I saw one I thought the screen was covered by a piece of paper for display purposes.

 

2. Use a lithium polymer USER REPLACEABLE battery. Preferably in a NON PROPRIETARY package such as rechargeable 3.7v cr-v3. If the Oregon or the PN-40 used a rechargeable cr-v3 battery the weight would drop by 1/2 oz and the battery life would be 70% better.

 

3. Carefully design the unit so it is as compact as possible. Nobody wants to carry a giant brick gps in their pocket. Palm TREO size = good, Brick phone = bad. There's a reason you don't see people carrying phones like this around anymore:

 

http://www.thecopperwire.com/gecko.gif

 

If your cell phone looked like a PN-40, I bet you'd be pretty embarrassed when you made a phone call.

 

There are many, many, many other ways you could screw up a gps design (I'm sure I ways I cannot imagine) but this is a start.

 

Oh, and please correct me if I'm wrong/an idiot/whatever.

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Just a few words on the suggestion of the ePaper screen: I agree with the OP that they look great. But there are some reasons you don't see them on GPSs. Refresh rate too slow for moving displays. Color versions still years from commercial availability. Don't work well in the cold.

 

Ideal for e-books, and maybe many other applications - but not a GPS yet.

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...and sell it for $79.95

...and play MP3s and MPG videos in 1080p (both in stereo of course with the red and blue glasses for the videos).

 

That would be nice too.

 

But the point of this is that there are $500 hand held gps units on the market that are significantly less sophisticated than they should be for the money, given the technology available to manufacturers right now. I do admit part of this is probably due to the relatively small market.

 

I feel like these are not outlandish suggestions. Use a readily available screen that is better suited to this application. Use a readily available battery and don't design a case with giant air pockets in it.

 

This is not rocket science. I'm not asking for Iphone sophistication.

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Just a few words on the suggestion of the ePaper screen: I agree with the OP that they look great. But there are some reasons you don't see them on GPSs. Refresh rate too slow for moving displays. Color versions still years from commercial availability. Don't work well in the cold.

 

Ideal for e-books, and maybe many other applications - but not a GPS yet.

 

The refresh rate is slow anyway, because of the time it takes the gps to draw the map.

 

You could be right about the cold.

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I'd venture to say all of the handheld devices on the market right now seem to have major shortcomings in one or more of the following areas:

 

Poor battery life

Poor screen visibility in certain lighting conditions

Low screen resolution

Larger than necessary casing (even compact models such as the etrex have lots of empty space)

Criminally bad interface software

 

Again, I'm talking all around units. Many people who swear by an Etrex/60gsx use a nuvi in the car till they get near the cache. A Vista Csx Might be great when backpacking, but navigating in an area with a dense grid of city streets is less than ideal due to the low resolution screen. An oregon might be ideal for for most situations, but try taking it on a two week backpacking trip (how many batteries would that take?)

 

Oh, and please correct me if I'm an idiot.

 

I use my 60Csx for car and geocaching. Although, it doesn't talk to me for turn by turn and it doesn't wipe my butt when I'm finished either so I guess it's lacking in that department, but then again, I don't need the GPS to do this.. I have a Garmin QuestII for the car - which the wife uses. I really don't need something tell me where to turn.

 

I really don't know what you're problem is with GPS's, but I really don't have a problem with my 60's screen resolution and it does just fine in a "dense grid of city streets" - at least in Atlanta and New York it did fine.

 

I don't know... Sounds like the tools for this hobby might not be your cup of tea..

 

If your cell phone looked like a PN-40, I bet you'd be pretty embarrassed when you made a phone call.

 

No, not really, I'm not compensating for anything with my phone..

 

FYI, if you have never seen an epaper screen in person, they look great. The first time I saw one I thought the screen was covered by a piece of paper for display purposes.

 

I have and as other's have pointed out, the technology doesn't translate well to the GPS market

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Ok, you're right, looks like the quoted operating temperature for epaper is down to freezing and the minimum storage temperature is 15 deg or so.

 

Garmin says the 60cs goes down to 5deg, which is significantly better.

 

I think for many users (including myself) this would be a pretty good trade off, but wouldn't make an ideal all around unit as I was suggesting. Plus you could fry your screen below 15 or so.

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.......

This is not rocket science.......

True, but........

I keep seeing this being said. Frankly, it is. It may not be directly related to rockets, but the science is valid for rockets. Afterall, we didn't slingshot those satellites up there.

Yes, it is certainly as involved, although a different branch of technology, which was my point as I was quite literal.

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3. Carefully design the unit so it is as compact as possible. Nobody wants to carry a giant brick gps in their pocket. Palm TREO size = good, Brick phone = bad.

Compact is good, but it's unlikely that a handheld GPS designed for hiking and other outdoor use will be as thin and flimsy as a phone or PDA. I have dropped my various garmin models into muddy ponds, icy cold running streams, onto pavement, and over small cliffs. This rough handling has resulted in some cosmetic scratches to the case, but no functional problems at all -- they are rugged and waterproof and keep working after I've fished them out of the water or climbed down the rocks to retrieve them where they landed after falling. If a bit of extra bulk and weight is necessary for this kind of durability, that's a trade-off I willingly make.

 

A picture of our GPS underwater after I accidentally kicked it:

cdd2418e-22ce-40b3-8b4a-ccf738b48ba8.jpg

Edited by the hermit crabs
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I'm not an expert and I'm not even an experienced GPS user, so take this with a grain of salt. These are just some (possibly naive) observations by someone new to the GPS market.

 

While shopping for a handheld GPS I noticed there are no ideal ALL AROUND handheld gps units, no matter how much money one has to spend. While there may have been great improvements compared to past models, handheld gps technology looks a little sorry compared to other consumer sectors such as car gps units, digital cameras, cell phones, pda's etc.

 

I'd venture to say all of the handheld devices on the market right now seem to have major shortcomings in one or more of the following areas:

 

Poor battery life

Poor screen visibility in certain lighting conditions

Low screen resolution

Larger than necessary casing (even compact models such as the etrex have lots of empty space)

Criminally bad interface software

 

Again, I'm talking all around units. Many people who swear by an Etrex/60gsx use a nuvi in the car till they get near the cache. A Vista Csx Might be great when backpacking, but navigating in an area with a dense grid of city streets is less than ideal due to the low resolution screen. An oregon might be ideal for for most situations, but try taking it on a two week backpacking trip (how many batteries would that take?)

 

So where am I going with this? Companies that have the resources to develop new, sophisticated gps units (garmin) seem to have taken their eye off the ball. Emphasis on features and eye candy have resulted in bulky, power hungry devices. They look sexy in the store, but are less than ideal for their intended purpose.

 

Here's a couple of ideas for someone who wishes to dominate the handheld GPS market:

 

1. Use an ELECTROPHORETIC SCREEN (aka "epaper") like the screen in the amazon kindle and the sony e-reader. These screens have outstanding visibility without a backlight and have extremely low power consumption (4mw - 16mw for a 5 inch screen, the kindle runs for a week on a charge). They are also high resolution, flexible (no cracking) and inexpensive (so cheap esquire used one built into a magazine cover in october). Yes, the ones available now are not color, but I believe the high resolution, high visibility and low power consumption would more make up for this deficiency.

 

FYI, if you have never seen an epaper screen in person, they look great. The first time I saw one I thought the screen was covered by a piece of paper for display purposes.

 

2. Use a lithium polymer USER REPLACEABLE battery. Preferably in a NON PROPRIETARY package such as rechargeable 3.7v cr-v3. If the Oregon or the PN-40 used a rechargeable cr-v3 battery the weight would drop by 1/2 oz and the battery life would be 70% better.

 

3. Carefully design the unit so it is as compact as possible. Nobody wants to carry a giant brick gps in their pocket. Palm TREO size = good, Brick phone = bad. There's a reason you don't see people carrying phones like this around anymore:

 

http://www.thecopperwire.com/gecko.gif

 

If your cell phone looked like a PN-40, I bet you'd be pretty embarrassed when you made a phone call.

 

There are many, many, many other ways you could screw up a gps design (I'm sure I ways I cannot imagine) but this is a start.

 

Oh, and please correct me if I'm wrong/an idiot/whatever.

Just what the world needs, another unappreciative twenty-something "Know-it-all" who's never designed anything is his life!!!

 

Come back in twenty years and show us your contributions to this world. In the meantime, it's time to put up or shut up!!!

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Handhelds are designed for heavy use in the out doors and this limits designs.

 

Poor battery life

How long will your cell last on a two week backpacking trip? I changed my batteries once on a 5 day paddle with a 60csx. Theres only so long a life you can get out of a pair of AAs.

 

Poor screen visibility in certain lighting conditions

Im sure it happens with all digital device screens Rarely does this happen my gps, & backlight on full solves it.

 

Low screen resolution

Thats all one needs for vector maps (I hear the PN-40 has good resolution for sat images.)

Larger than necessary casing (even compact models such as the etrex have lots of empty space)

Turned on how many times can you drop your electric device before it breaks? how about in water? There is the edge 702 if you like real small.

 

Criminally bad interface software

Its not great but mapsource works fine for me and there are other exellent options.

 

1. Black & white screens for viewing topo is a lot harder to read (things get cluttered) and what about sat images. You might like it but most consumers would opt for current colour screens.

 

2. Dont know anything about lithium polymer. The rinos have lithium ion packs and yes they last longer but once it runs out on a trip I'd need to spend $50 on a second pack and would prefer using recharage AAs, they are a safe bet for maufatures, infact magellan swiched from a battery pack to AAAs with its 500 explorist.

 

3.Nobody wants to carry a giant brick gps in their pocket

Ahem

 

It would be nice to have all the things youve mentioned but ultimately the market drives change and theres a large market for cells PDAs, not so much for handhelds.

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Gotta disagree with the battery suggestion.

 

I LOVE the fact that most GPSr's use AA batteries. AA is getting to be almost the only type of battery that I keep in the house any more and they are dirt cheap compared to most other batteries.

 

I don't care about battery life as much as having readily available and cheap spare batteries when the GPSr dies.

 

This is why I've never purchased a subcompact digital camera. Most subcompacts use a special small very expensive lithium battery. Bigger cameras are more likely to just use AA batteries.

 

Keep it AA!

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3. Carefully design the unit so it is as compact as possible. Nobody wants to carry a giant brick gps in their pocket. Palm TREO size = good, Brick phone = bad. There's a reason you don't see people carrying phones like this around anymore:

 

Oh, and please correct me if I'm wrong/an idiot/whatever.

 

I wouldn't want anything much smaller than my CO. I had one of those dinky cell phones that were out several years ago and I hated it. I need something that I get ahold of.

 

It appears that you are wrong on the display but the rest is just a difference in opinion. Just like hybrid vs SUV, Ford vs Chevy, etc.

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Keep it AA!

 

Shaw. The only other decent one is a 9volt and those are way overpriced. AAA should be made illegal and D's and C's are dinosaurs.

Well, with one exception, to quell the complaints from the amnesty for common criminal activists, cops aren't allowed to carry those old, wooden billy clubs anymore.

 

However, it is OK to carry flashlights, 4 D cell Maglites seem appropriate. ;)

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1. Use an ELECTROPHORETIC SCREEN (aka "epaper") like the screen in the amazon kindle and the sony e-reader. These screens have outstanding visibility without a backlight and have extremely low power consumption (4mw - 16mw for a 5 inch screen, the kindle runs for a week on a charge).

 

4mw - 16mw for a 5 inch screen,

 

You ask For a 5 inch screen but then ask that it be smaller than a nano? ;)

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Keep it AA!

 

Shaw. The only other decent one is a 9volt and those are way overpriced. AAA should be made illegal and D's and C's are dinosaurs.

Well, with one exception, to quell the complaints from the amnesty for common criminal activists, cops aren't allowed to carry those old, wooden billy clubs anymore.

 

However, it is OK to carry flashlights, 4 D cell Maglites seem appropriate. :D

 

6. ;)

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3. Carefully design the unit so it is as compact as possible. Nobody wants to carry a giant brick gps in their pocket. Palm TREO size = good, Brick phone = bad. There's a reason you don't see people carrying phones like this around anymore:

 

Oh, and please correct me if I'm wrong/an idiot/whatever.

 

I wouldn't want anything much smaller than my CO. I had one of those dinky cell phones that were out several years ago and I hated it. I need something that I get ahold of.

 

It appears that you are wrong on the display but the rest is just a difference in opinion. Just like hybrid vs SUV, Ford vs Chevy, etc.

 

In 1920 it was considered unmanly to wear a wrist watch and real men had pocket watches. Yes, obviously a difference of opinion. I bet you can get your hands on this GPS:

 

Manpack_old.jpg

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1. Use an ELECTROPHORETIC SCREEN (aka "epaper") like the screen in the amazon kindle and the sony e-reader. These screens have outstanding visibility without a backlight and have extremely low power consumption (4mw - 16mw for a 5 inch screen, the kindle runs for a week on a charge).

 

4mw - 16mw for a 5 inch screen,

 

You ask For a 5 inch screen but then ask that it be smaller than a nano? ;)

 

I wouldn't want a 5" screen, that's just what I could find specs for. There are a bunch of E-readers on the market with a ~5inch screen and a cell phone. I imagine you could get something more appropriate for a gps, but I could be wrong.

 

I don't know if the typical gps manufacturer buys off the shelf screens or has them made to spec.

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Just what the world needs, another unappreciative twenty-something "Know-it-all" who's never designed anything is his life!!!

 

Come back in twenty years and show us your contributions to this world. In the meantime, it's time to put up or shut up!!!

 

 

I use my 60Csx for car and geocaching. Although, it doesn't talk to me for turn by turn and it doesn't wipe my butt when I'm finished either so I guess it's lacking in that department, but then again, I don't need the GPS to do this.. I have a Garmin QuestII for the car - which the wife uses. I really don't need something tell me where to turn.

 

I really don't know what you're problem is with GPS's, but I really don't have a problem with my 60's screen resolution and it does just fine in a "dense grid of city streets" - at least in Atlanta and New York it did fine.

 

I don't know... Sounds like the tools for this hobby might not be your cup of tea..

 

No, not really, I'm not compensating for anything with my phone..

 

 

I'm not trying to start a flame fight here. I was merely pointing out that hand held GPS units seem to lag technologically compared to other consumer electronics and that there is plenty of room for an enterprising company to grab some market share. Based on my experience with other consumer electronics I just expect more for my $500.

 

Let's face it, the handheld GPS market is not as competitive a other markets and you get more for your money when you buy a laptop or a digital camera. Garmin has weak competition and they price their products accordingly. Why do you think the Colorado 300 went down from $500 to $200 in the course of a year? Do you think their manufacturing costs went down $300? No way. Garmin charged $500 because that's what they thought would make the most money. It could easily cost less than $100 to manufacture a Colorado or an Oregon. Now you can get a Colorado for $200 because the Oregon came out and they're switching to a new price structure.

 

You could argue that any new feature or improvement on a gps is a frivolous luxury. High sensitivity vs low sensitivity, color vs black and white, mapping vs non mapping, the list goes on. None of this stuff is necessary. I'm sure if you guys were a few years older you'd be arguing you don't need anything better than a compass and a good map (and with good reason).

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Gotta disagree with the battery suggestion.

 

I LOVE the fact that most GPSr's use AA batteries. AA is getting to be almost the only type of battery that I keep in the house any more and they are dirt cheap compared to most other batteries.

 

I don't care about battery life as much as having readily available and cheap spare batteries when the GPSr dies.

 

This is why I've never purchased a subcompact digital camera. Most subcompacts use a special small very expensive lithium battery. Bigger cameras are more likely to just use AA batteries.

 

Keep it AA!

Strongly agree - recharchable battery is worthless to me if I got nowhere to recharge it. But I can carry AA's with me easily for a variety of devices that I carry and can purchase them nearly anywhere.

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I have a better suggestion: start your own company. You'll be the only company producing a technologically modern GPS. You'll be the only company offering a GPS worth its price.

 

That's not what I'm saying. The Oregon and the Colorado gps units are thoroughly modern, but for backpacking use the power consumption and the bulk are less than ideal (given available technology). The delorme pn-40 seems to be very modern internally, but the screen is a little lacking (again, given the available technology)

 

With regards to competition: Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want to purchase a hand held, waterproof, high resolution gps, you have to buy a Garmin. If I'm not mistaken, that gives them more flexibility for setting prices.

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Gotta disagree with the battery suggestion.

 

I LOVE the fact that most GPSr's use AA batteries. AA is getting to be almost the only type of battery that I keep in the house any more and they are dirt cheap compared to most other batteries.

 

I don't care about battery life as much as having readily available and cheap spare batteries when the GPSr dies.

 

This is why I've never purchased a subcompact digital camera. Most subcompacts use a special small very expensive lithium battery. Bigger cameras are more likely to just use AA batteries.

 

Keep it AA!

 

Amen! I avoid 'slim' or 'sleek' or otherwise scaled down flashlights or other electronics that are AAA dependent.

 

Seems a lot of people have market driven taste when it comes to electronic devices. While shopping for a new cell phone recently I asked a local sales rep for a durable phone that would stand up to the conditions of my work (and play) environment. Basically I needed something with some mil-spec type durability and decent battery life. After listening to my requirements the sales guy said, "Ohhh.... uh.....we don't sell those kinds of phones". :D I asked, "Why not?". "Well..... we only stock phones based on the results of our demographic surveys, you know, the phones that people in this area would like." "Then, pray tell, what do you have that comes closest to meeting my requirements?" The model he offered was not too bad, so I asked about battery life, could it handle a good 10-12 hour day without having to be put on a charger? He said, "Well, with the new high resolution screen and intense graphics and high speed bandwith and the slimmed down size you just don't get that much time on the battery anymore."

 

I work and play outdoors. It is a dusty, sometimes wet, hot or cold and high vibration and impact associated lifestyle. Many devices that are popular today may be thin and light and oh so cool, but they won't last a month riding around in my pocket/holster/backpack. No doubt it would look pretty darn slick hangin off my cheek at the local deli, and it is so light I would have to snap by pocket to keep it from floating out. But if I go to use it and it only goes click-pop..blank :( .... it don't look so cool and wouldn't even make a decent paper weight. :P

 

It's a tool. No matter how you package it or market it, it must perform. If you take a $200,000 tricked out boat to the middle of the lake and it won't start.... you're basically floating dead in the water on pretty piece of wood. If you're really into floating and bobbing up and down in the water like a bobber then you still might manage to have a pretty good day.

 

I know, there IS a market for devices that are thinner than a politician's promise and last about as long. For those who consider crossing a large parking lot an outdoor excursion I'm sure they will perform wonderfully. Freon junkies and cubicle critters no doubt love them. Been there, done that.

 

For those of us who have escaped and find ourselves on the path (or off) less travelled, we cannot afford to carry that which merely survives from starbucks to starbucks. :)

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I suggest you go out and actually do some caching. Get at least a few hundred and then report back on your experiences and observations.

Although I don't agree with the op's view of current GPS'r technology; I don't feel like you need to be a cacher to be literate in technology.

I'm VERY new to caching but I've used a GPS'r in some form for MANY years. Do I need to log more caches before I comment? These forums crack me up sometimes!

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I have a better suggestion: start your own company. You'll be the only company producing a technologically modern GPS. You'll be the only company offering a GPS worth its price.

 

That's not what I'm saying. The Oregon and the Colorado gps units are thoroughly modern, but for backpacking use the power consumption and the bulk are less than ideal (given available technology). The delorme pn-40 seems to be very modern internally, but the screen is a little lacking (again, given the available technology)

 

With regards to competition: Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want to purchase a hand held, waterproof, high resolution gps, you have to buy a Garmin. If I'm not mistaken, that gives them more flexibility for setting prices.

You're wrong on a lot of assumptions you've made here.

 

Magellan, Lowrance and Delorme are all waterproofed to IPx7 standards as well as Garmin.

 

Oh, and before griping about the screen size, actually get one in your hands and compare. The high resolution of the Delorme makes up for the screen size. It's very readable and usable, even in broad daylight in high glare snow conditions (as observed yesterday afternoon.)

 

GPS units are relatively a new technology given its been heavily consumer driven for less than a decade. Cell phones have been around for more than 2 decades and it took over a decade for the technology before they finally arrived to the point where they became more than just phones with simple texting technology.

Televisions: look at how long it took to get to high def.

Cars: look at the evolution to where they are at today.

 

All of these advancements were small steps towards improvement. The GPS systems are going through the same steps. This keeps it affordable for the masses and helps pay for future improvements.

 

As for the remark about how helpful some people aren't... The OP started off pretty abrasively and from a viewpoint I would call lacking (to use a polite word.) If they wanted help, their approach could certainly have used some improvement as well. I'm always of the mind you get what you give.

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You're wrong on a lot of assumptions you've made here.

 

Magellan, Lowrance and Delorme are all waterproofed to IPx7 standards as well as Garmin.

 

 

Those are all lower resolution than the Oregon and Colorado. The Magellan triton is the only one that comes close and it's a POS.

 

 

Oh, and before griping about the screen size, actually get one in your hands and compare. The high resolution of the Delorme makes up for the screen size. It's very readable and usable, even in broad

daylight in high glare snow conditions (as observed yesterday afternoon.)

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but your delorme is not high resolution. It's 176x220, same as a color etrex and lower than an older black and white etrex!

 

 

GPS units are relatively a new technology given its been heavily consumer driven for less than a decade. Cell phones have been around for more than 2 decades and it took over a decade for the technology before they finally arrived to the point where they became more than just phones with simple texting technology.

Televisions: look at how long it took to get to high def.

Cars: look at the evolution to where they are at today.

 

 

This is totally bogus argument. The first commercial GPS was available in 1982 and commercial cell phone and usage didn't really take off until the late 90's:

 

Mobile phone usage

 

In addition, with the exception of the receiver portion of the of the gps there is tons of hardware developed for phones and pdas that can be used in a gps (processors, screens, video drivers, etc)

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Amen! I avoid 'slim' or 'sleek' or otherwise scaled down flashlights or other electronics that are AAA dependent.

 

Seems a lot of people have market driven taste when it comes to electronic devices. While shopping for a new cell phone recently I asked a local sales rep for a durable phone that would stand up to the conditions of my work (and play) environment. Basically I needed something with some mil-spec type durability and decent battery life. After listening to my requirements the sales guy said, "Ohhh.... uh.....we don't sell those kinds of phones". :D I asked, "Why not?". "Well..... we only stock phones based on the results of our demographic surveys, you know, the phones that people in this area would like." "Then, pray tell, what do you have that comes closest to meeting my requirements?" The model he offered was not too bad, so I asked about battery life, could it handle a good 10-12 hour day without having to be put on a charger? He said, "Well, with the new high resolution screen and intense graphics and high speed bandwith and the slimmed down size you just don't get that much time on the battery anymore."

 

I work and play outdoors. It is a dusty, sometimes wet, hot or cold and high vibration and impact associated lifestyle. Many devices that are popular today may be thin and light and oh so cool, but they won't last a month riding around in my pocket/holster/backpack. No doubt it would look pretty darn slick hangin off my cheek at the local deli, and it is so light I would have to snap by pocket to keep it from floating out. But if I go to use it and it only goes click-pop..blank :( .... it don't look so cool and wouldn't even make a decent paper weight. :P

 

It's a tool. No matter how you package it or market it, it must perform. If you take a $200,000 tricked out boat to the middle of the lake and it won't start.... you're basically floating dead in the water on pretty piece of wood. If you're really into floating and bobbing up and down in the water like a bobber then you still might manage to have a pretty good day.

 

I know, there IS a market for devices that are thinner than a politician's promise and last about as long. For those who consider crossing a large parking lot an outdoor excursion I'm sure they will perform wonderfully. Freon junkies and cubicle critters no doubt love them. Been there, done that.

 

For those of us who have escaped and find ourselves on the path (or off) less travelled, we cannot afford to carry that which merely survives from starbucks to starbucks. :)

 

There is no reason a GPS can't be small and durable. I'm not talking motorazor slim, but I think an etrex or oregon could be half as thick and still be durable

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If you're so certain that you know what it takes to make the perfect GPS as a profitable business venture AND that everyone currently in the industry is doing it wrong, why aren't you doing it right now?

 

Has it even crossed your mind that DeLorme, Garmin, Magellan & Lowrance just might know something you don't?

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supergerardo,

 

I can't say you're totally off base because nothing is perfect and there is always room for improvement. I do agree there is room for improvement when it comes to battery life. However, to claim that the GPSr industry is lagging the other technologies and to claim mobile phones are far superior is design and software does make you sound a little whacked. The cell phone industry certain does not have a solid reliability track record nor for that matter any type of standard for transferring data without any loss from one phone to another. I also think it is unrealistic to expect one device to excel in every situation. We certainly don't expect this out of our stereos, TVs, cars, guns, knives, bikes, or skis to name just a few.

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While I disagree with some of the OP's suggested "solutions," I do agree with his general premise. There's a lot of room for improvement in handheld GPS models, and a lot of the technology extant in other devices is applicable.

 

To make this point, I'd present (and I've brought this up before) the Apple iPhone.

 

I'm not suggesting it's a competitor to any existing GPS model. It's not meant as a GPS, though Apple stuck a passable one in as an afterthought. It's not even a good device for all-weather use -- though waterproofing and 2 millimeters of plastic bumpers around the outside would take care of that.

 

But even without that -- it shows a powerful processor, user-friendly operating system, large daylight-readable hi-res screen, enough memory for a few DVDs full of maps, and all the other necessary electronics can fit in a shirt-pocket sized device -- and STILL be rugged enough to survive getting run over by an 18-wheeler.

 

Problems? The packaging of the iPhone appeals to a lot of users, but hard-core outdoor users want something big enough to hold and operate in gloved hands, with enough air in the body so it'll float if it goes overboard, and field replaceable AA batteries. But those packaging details are easy compared to getting the innards right, and no one model will appeal to everybody. That's why most vendors offer several.

 

It can be done. All the OP has to do is convince Apple to build it :(

 

tick, tick, tick... timing how long it takes for someone to rudely tell me why everything I just said is wrong ...

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"The first commercial GPS was available in 1982"

 

While you're creating your GPS company, you might also want to correct Magellan, who claims "First U.S. commercial handheld GPS receiver for positioning and navigation (1989).

http://corp.magellangps.com/en/aboutUs/

 

I said commercial gps, not commercial handheld gps.

 

Also, Remember the first real cell phones came out in 1983 and cost $4000. Mobile phones prior to that were really just radios that contacted an operator who dialed your number for you.

 

If you're so certain that you know what it takes to make the perfect GPS as a profitable business venture AND that everyone currently in the industry is doing it wrong, why aren't you doing it right now?

 

Has it even crossed your mind that DeLorme, Garmin, Magellan & Lowrance just might know something you don't?

 

You have to be joking. I'm not an engineer, or a venture capitalist.

 

Yes it's crossed my mind that I could be wrong.

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While I disagree with some of the OP's suggested "solutions," I do agree with his general premise. There's a lot of room for improvement in handheld GPS models, and a lot of the technology extant in other devices is applicable.

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

To make this point, I'd present (and I've brought this up before) the Apple iPhone.

 

I'm not suggesting it's a competitor to any existing GPS model. It's not meant as a GPS, though Apple stuck a passable one in as an afterthought. It's not even a good device for all-weather use -- though waterproofing and 2 millimeters of plastic bumpers around the outside would take care of that.

 

But even without that -- it shows a powerful processor, user-friendly operating system, large daylight-readable hi-res screen, enough memory for a few DVDs full of maps, and all the other necessary electronics can fit in a shirt-pocket sized device -- and STILL be rugged enough to survive getting run over by an 18-wheeler.

 

 

And the current manufacturing cost of the Iphone is only $174.33

 

 

Problems? The packaging of the iPhone appeals to a lot of users, but hard-core outdoor users want something big enough to hold and operate in gloved hands, with enough air in the body so it'll float if it goes overboard, and field replaceable AA batteries. But those packaging details are easy compared to getting the innards right, and no one model will appeal to everybody. That's why most vendors offer several.

 

 

The Etrex, Colorado and Oregon all do not float. The Delorme PN's only float with lithium batteries.

 

Holding the oregon with gloves is a non issue, since it can't be operated with gloves. Back in the day nobody asked for a giant compass that floats and they could grip!

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Resolution is a matter of pixel density, not size of screen! Actually the pixel count for the

larger screens goes down proportionately, so in a sense less resolution. If you had a screen

the size of . . . say the magellan xl, w/ the density of the DeLorme PN-XX, NOW you'd

have Hi-Def.

 

Ok You're all cued up Papa, give 'em both barrels!

 

;^)

Norm

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You're wrong on a lot of assumptions you've made here.

 

Magellan, Lowrance and Delorme are all waterproofed to IPx7 standards as well as Garmin.

 

 

Those are all lower resolution than the Oregon and Colorado. The Magellan triton is the only one that comes close and it's a POS.

 

 

Oh, and before griping about the screen size, actually get one in your hands and compare. The high resolution of the Delorme makes up for the screen size. It's very readable and usable, even in broad

daylight in high glare snow conditions (as observed yesterday afternoon.)

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but your delorme is not high resolution. It's 176x220, same as a color etrex and lower than an older black and white etrex!

 

 

GPS units are relatively a new technology given its been heavily consumer driven for less than a decade. Cell phones have been around for more than 2 decades and it took over a decade for the technology before they finally arrived to the point where they became more than just phones with simple texting technology.

Televisions: look at how long it took to get to high def.

Cars: look at the evolution to where they are at today.

 

 

This is totally bogus argument. The first commercial GPS was available in 1982 and commercial cell phone and usage didn't really take off until the late 90's:

 

Mobile phone usage

 

In addition, with the exception of the receiver portion of the of the gps there is tons of hardware developed for phones and pdas that can be used in a gps (processors, screens, video drivers, etc)

Thanks for driving my point across. The market for GPS was around for 2 decades but didn't TAKE OFF UNTIL THE 90'S. Are you paying attention? That's heavily consumer driven for less than the past decade.

 

Cell phone usage... 1987 to 2008... ummmm more than two decades. Hello? Can you hear me now? It took that long for both technologies to get where they are at today.

 

I hate to break it to ya, but the Delorme screen is 65,000 colors. That's high resolution. Not screen size. You're not paying much attention are ya?

 

One other thing, I commented on your waterproof argument...

 

 

You're wrong on a lot of assumptions you've made here.

 

Magellan, Lowrance and Delorme are all waterproofed to IPx7 standards as well as Garmin.

 

 

Those are all lower resolution than the Oregon and Colorado. The Magellan triton is the only one that comes close and it's a POS.

 

What does your retort have to do with my response?

Edited by TotemLake
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Resolution is a matter of pixel density, not size of screen! Actually the pixel count for the

larger screens goes down proportionately, so in a sense less resolution. If you had a screen

the size of . . . say the magellan xl, w/ the density of the DeLorme PN-XX, NOW you'd

have Hi-Def.

 

Ok You're all cued up Papa, give 'em both barrels!

 

;^)

Norm

Roger that, Norm.

 

SG, would you rather watch The Jerry Springer Show on a 40" 720p TV or the National Geograhic Channel on a 32" 1080p LCD TV?

(Did RRL's and TL's comments regarding screen size and resolution penetrate?)

 

Now, please excuse me. My auto rebuilder is on the phone. I told him that I was disappointed with all current production cars and why couldn't something better be done?

 

He told me for $10,000 he could build me a vehicle that will go up a 7% interstate grade at 100 mph sustained while carrying 1,000# of 4' x 8' sheets of sheet rock and get 50 mpg while doing so and have a reliability, MTBF, of 100,000 miles. He is going to rebuild a junked out Yugo and ......................... <_<

Edited by Team CowboyPapa
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Thanks for driving my point across. The market for GPS was around for 2 decades but didn't TAKE OFF UNTIL THE 90'S. Are you paying attention? That's heavily consumer driven for less than the past decade.

 

Cell phone usage... 1987 to 2008... ummmm more than two decades. Hello? Can you hear me now? It took that long for both technologies to get where they are at today.

 

 

I'm glad we have reached an agreement. Yes, consumer use of phones and gps units did not take off until the late 90's.

 

Did you have a cell phone in 1987? I doubt it. How about a GPS? Even if you had an offshore boat you would have probably been using Loran C.

 

Odds are you also didn't have a cell phone in 1997, unless it was for business. I know I didn't have a cell phone in 1997 and neither did anyone I knew.

 

Cellphones did not become commonplace until the late 90's, much like gps.

 

Again, this graph backs up my assertion:

 

cell usage

 

 

I hate to break it to ya, but the Delorme screen is 65,000 colors. That's high resolution. Not screen size. You're not paying much attention are ya?

 

 

# of colors have nothing to to with resolution. Read this wikipedia article:

 

Screen Resolution

 

 

 

One other thing, I commented on your waterproof argument...

 

You're wrong on a lot of assumptions you've made here.

 

Magellan, Lowrance and Delorme are all waterproofed to IPx7 standards as well as Garmin.

 

 

I said "if you want to purchase a hand held, waterproof, high resolution gps, you have to buy a Garmin."

 

This doesn't mean that other GPS units are not waterproof, it just means they don't meet all of the above requirements (specifically high resolution).

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