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To DNF or not to DNF?


Chi-Town Cacher
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Being relatively new to the sport I read the Forums a lot to try and learn, however I don't recall seeing this question before. In the past I've not bothered to log my DNFs (except for one I did mark as a DNF just to show an even newer cacher how to do it), but have recently wondered if not logging them is perceived by other geocachers as not being ethical? If so then I will go back to those caches next spring and search one final time and log them as DNFs if I still can't find them.

In case anybody's wondering why I would not have logged the DNFs it was just out of being ashamed of not being able to find caches that everybody else was easily finding. I know it's kind of silly, but it's the truth. Nobody wants to look like they're not to smart.

I think after reading the Forums at length that next summer I will start logging my DNFs so that way if a cache owner sees a bunch of DNFs suddenly appear they can take that as a indication that they may want to verify if it is in fact still where it should be or if it is missing for some reason.

When I become a premium member next month and I start to see what I can put together on my stats at some of the websites that are popular will my lack of logging DNFs incorrectly skew the numbers so they are not accurate? If so then I'll have to go back and give them a final search and then DNF them if I still can't find them.

If logging DNFs does count towards the stats that lots of the premium members use then my next question would be, if I DNF a cache and then later go back and find it once I've sharpened my geocaching skills would the new log of a find negate the previous DNF and change the stats to reflect it as a found cache?

Being part of the local geocaching community it would be nice if I knew my conduct fit pretty well with the standard norms of conduct so that's why I'd like some clarification especially on the ethics side of it. Thanks in advance for any input you can give me on this subject. Happy holidays everybody!!!!

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I'm not sure if "ethics" comes in to it, but it is nice to always log a DNF. Yes, it can show a cache owner that there may be a problem, but it's also part of your caching history. Sometimes the DNF stories are more interesting than the found stories. Some here will say they don't log a DNF until they are sure it's gone - even if it takes a couple of trips. Some will say log a DNF if you given a good search, others will say once the 'go to' is pressed any reason for not finding the cache is a DNF (I'm mostly in the last catagory - I once logged a DNF when I was in an accident on the way to the cache).

 

There is NO shame in not finding a cache - whether you have just few caches finds, or a whole lot, we've all done it. A DNF log just simply means that you didn't find the cache. There have been a couple of caches I've logged multiple DNF's (on one cache the first time it was missing, the second time it was flooded and me in good shoes, the last I just couldn't see it (though I'd spotted it the second time??)).

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While I must admit I do needlessly feel a tinge of stigma when I log DNFs, they are natural. When I started caching though I did not have a GPS and got numerous DNFs, didn't log any of them because in my opinion doing it without a GPS doesn't count since it wasn't a level playing field compared to the normal cacher. The only place where I feel not logging a DNF would be unethical is if it was a part of some contest. There are no extra points or loss of points for logging DNFs so I don't feel it is mandatory. I usually don't, for example last week when I was out in a park and we got within 100 feet of the cache site after a lot of trudging through thorns but it was passed sunset and we had a long way back so in panic we just gave up so close to the cache and hightailed it out of there. I didn't log that as a DNF (though what a story!) because we never actually got to GZ to search it and it wasn't under normal circumstances. I typically only log DNFs when I've either been there multiple times and just can't find it or when I get a feeling the cache is missing.

 

Everyone has their own criteria. I've seen people log DNFs when they've visited the cache site but had no time to actually search. I don't see the reason for a log like that but maybe some people do.

Edited by Vartan84
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I get more angry leaving the site of DNF than I do logging it. I think every honest cacher has a closet full of DNFs, and only those that are worried about their image don't log them.

 

I log every one. Actually, over time I have found that logging the DNFs makes me feel even better about the smileys! The smiley is especially smiling when it is logged after a DNF on the same cache. I think it shows that you were beaten once, but came back to win!

 

Just think of it this way - plenty of NFL teams have won the Superbowl, but very few of them have done it with no losses during the regular season. No baseball team has ever won the world series without losing some games during the season -- you get the point.

 

Overcoming the DNF is more important than hiding it! Don't be ashamed. Nobody's perfect! Log that frowny with pride, and then feel good about the fact that you have owned every success and failure equally.

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My 'take' on logging DNFs...

 

I'm a newbie to this and there are a few that proved to be a PITA.

Kind of a downer when you read the logs and someone writes "drove to the area, found it immediatly" when you have been to the site many times unsuccessful.

I didnt log a DNF but aint given up yet.

 

Well done on your persistence at least!

 

I would encourage anyone who has tried unsuccessfully to find any cache to enter a DNF log for it. As others have said over and over again on these forums, There's no shame in a DNF!" DNF logs are an important part of the whole history of a cache: They give some indication to other cachers as to how easy/difficult it may be (those difficulty stars are not always an accurate guideline), they are the first 'heads up' for the owner that the cache might be missing and, yes, they also provide a wry smile for those who have found it before you and may be watching the cache listing because they also know it's a very tricky one and, like yourself, it took them several attempts to find.

 

Also, as a cache owner, if I see two or three DNF logs from someone obviously fairly new to geocaching I'll often get in touch with a friendly word of encouragement and offer a further hint if needed.

 

MrsB ;)

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I started out not logging my DNF's until my second attempt. Then I realized that after a while why not just log all of them. I have nothing to prove to anyone. It does show that I wasn't able to find the cache and will help prompt the owner if there are enough DNF's that something might be up. I look at it this way. It only takes a couple seconds log it so, why not do it.

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Thank you everybody for all the good advice. From this point on I will log every cache whether it be a find or a DNF. I guess I'll just have to keep in mind that eventually there will be more finds than DNFs. Now if only all this snow would just go away so I could start geocaching again!!! Come on April!!!! Happy Holidays! ;)

Edited by Michigan Cacheman
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if you log them you can also go back in your history and find them again easily. I also watchlist my DNF's so I can see if others find them after my visit.

 

I do the same thing (slap them on my watchlist) there are a few in our area I'm waiting until they're found at least once after my strike out before giving it another go.

 

I log DNFs unless I feel like I didn't have the time to give it a good enough look. But I do think many cachers don't. To me I feel like it helps the CO and other hunters to just log your DNFs. It's also interesting to see how different COs respond to a DNF. Some offer up a hint (though I haven't flat asked for one in a DNF... yet) and others just ignore you. ;)

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For a multitude of reasons, I ALWAYS log all of my DNF's religiously, and I put at least as much TLC into them as I put into my find logs. In fact, some of my best online log tales are DNFs! My wife Sue seems to be somewhat reluctant at times to log DNFs. and that does not bother me, as we tend to go after very different types of caches.

 

P.S. In fact, if I were the president of the USA, I would institute an authoritarian government, and would recall most of our armed forces from around the world, and would instead re-deploy them within the borders of the USA as a "Geocache Order-Keeping Force", and I would then pass autocratic laws making it a felony offense to fail to log a DNF when appropriate, and would also make it a felony offense for anyone to molest or disturb or steal a geocache, and I would assign the hundreds of thousands of domestically-deployed troops to enforce those laws and to break down the doors of all geo-offenders at 3 AM in order to apprehend them and bring them to swift justice.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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Being relatively new to the sport I read the Forums a lot to try and learn, [snip]

Be warned that you can get both good and bad advice in the forums. Someone has a .sig line that reads something like "comparing the geocaching forums to geocaching is like comparing talk radio to real life".

 

Back on topic, there should be no shame in a DNF. I logged my third DNF on the same local 5-star cache yesterday. A DNF can be very useful to the owner.

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My favorite ones to log are the FTDNF, going for the FTF and the cache eluding me. I got a bunch of 'em.

 

There are those few stupid ones I havent thought to DNF, like when I pull up and a group of muggles is right by GZ, I didn't search, therefore I can't DNF it. Now, when I first started I would log the DNF and then change it when found, I stopped doing that. I agree with other cachers now that, that is part of my history. Some great stories behind those DNF's. Ham up the logs... I usually claim my stupidity and the fact I most likely stepped on, sat on, picked up, tripped over, looked at, or otherwise had the cache right there and missed it.

 

I'm thinking of putting together a cache that a requirement would be to have 100 DNF's to get the smiley, I hear ther's one in California somewhere like that.

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My favorite ones to log are the FTDNF, going for the FTF and the cache eluding me. I got a bunch of 'em.

 

There are those few stupid ones I havent thought to DNF, like when I pull up and a group of muggles is right by GZ, I didn't search, therefore I can't DNF it. Now, when I first started I would log the DNF and then change it when found, I stopped doing that. I agree with other cachers now that, that is part of my history. Some great stories behind those DNF's. Ham up the logs... I usually claim my stupidity and the fact I most likely stepped on, sat on, picked up, tripped over, looked at, or otherwise had the cache right there and missed it.

 

I'm thinking of putting together a cache that a requirement would be to have 100 DNF's to get the smiley, I hear ther's one in California somewhere like that.

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I'm thinking of putting together a cache that a requirement would be to have 100 DNF's to get the smiley, I hear there's one in California somewhere like that.

 

There's a way around that:

Don't have 100 DNFs yet, I need 10 more so I walked away and didn't find this one.

Don't have 100 DNFs yet, I need 9 more so I walked away and didn't find this one.

Don't have 100 DNFs yet, I need 8 more so I walked away and didn't find this one.

:(

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I hate to log my DNFs because it's a real blow to my ego. But, you know, it's a game. And it certainly helps ME as a hider know when something's up with one of my stashes if the hunters will post the simple DNF note.

 

Oh, sure, I should maintain them by stopping by regularly. Some of my caches are WAY out there, though, and it's nice to have a crew of fellow cachers willing to post simple notes of success...or failure.

 

Failure is an option. :(

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I hate to log my DNFs because it's a real blow to my ego. But, you know, it's a game. And it certainly helps ME as a hider know when something's up with one of my stashes if the hunters will post the simple DNF note.

 

-snip-

 

Failure is an option. :(

 

I agree completely, a definite blow to the ego..... but when earned, ya gotta take your lumps.

 

To the OP, as you can see by the many answers, how you arrive at a DNF is a matter of personal choice. Some say that any search search under 5 mins. is just doing recon for a future search. Personally, if I pull into a park and have a family picnicing under the tree near GZ, I don't even try to find, therefore no DNF. Others will log a DNF if they start the cache-mobile, aim to the park and get distracted or delayed on the way. That's one of the best parts of the game, we can play the way we want and still arrive at the same destination.

 

-edit for bad spelling-

Edited by DiamondDaveG
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Thanks everybody! I've read all the responses and have learned to adjust my thought process (well it will take some work to change an old habit but I'm committed to it now). While everybody makes very good points I think my new philosophy to quote BooBooBee "Failure is an option." will sum up my new mindset in an abbreviated format. Once I've had a chance to really practice it for a while out in the field I'm sure it will take a lot of pressure off me and turn an enjoyable past time into an even more enjoyable time. Thanks again to everybody for your advise. Happy Holidays!!!

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I typically won't log a DNF unless I feel I've given the cache a fair shot. Sometimes that means spending 30 minutes at GZ looking for it the first time out. Other times, it means logging it after several failed 10-minute attempts.

 

Exceptions always come up, of course. If I know I won't be back to the area for a long time, I'll log the DNF after the first attempt. Or, if the weather is especially nasty or may preclude finding the cache for several months (like a near ground-level cache, in the winter, without a "not winter accessible" attribute to help other cachers out down the line.

 

I usually put my DNFs on a watchlist so I know if the owner has been back & checked on it. Always makes me feel better to get a "cache disabled, not there anymore" notification after I've logged the DNF.

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I only log DNF's if I feel there is a problem with the hunt or have an interesting story. (I'm not what one would call verbose in my logs to begin with.) I don't write up everything I do online. I won't even log a find if I don't feel like it.

 

Here's the thing: the tools are provided for you to keep a running journal of your activities as they relate to caches listed here with Groundspeak. You can take advantage of them or not. There's no ethical question in these broad terms. It is nice to let your fellow hobbyists know if there is a problem with the cache, though. Beyond that it's personal preference.

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Here is what I do. If I have looked for any amount of time at GZ, and I do not come up with the cache, then I log a DNF. However if I am getting close to GZ and see some muggles, or get that 'shouldn't look here' feeling then I post a note and say Could Not Attempt (CNA). Mostly do that because I log everything I did that day, and I want to remember what happened. It also helps other cachers know what they might happen upon.

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I log all my DNF's :D I usually try to tell my story for the cache owner just so they know I was out there looking and the fun or frustration I experienced :( I also appreciate it as a cache owner as it helps me determine if I need to check on the cache, adjust a rating, pull the cache for lack of interest, etc. (you get the idea). No shame in a DNF.

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If I spend time at GZ, searching for a cache, but with no joy I log a DNF. I won't keep logging them though. I have a cache in Iraq that I have been to about 10 times. But I have only logged 2 DNF's IIRC.

 

It is annoying that apparently most people don't DNF. I have gone after caches that had geo-trails and the entire GZ was stopmed flat. But no "finds" or "DNFs" or any logs of any kind in months. If there are enough people to cause that much damage, there are a ton of people too insecure to log DNFs. Failure to log DNFs is taking away important info from the owner and future cachers.

Edited by scuba dude
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I am a story teller at heart. There's few things I enjoy more than sitting around a camp fire waxing philosophic, (AKA: babbling endlessly), about all manner of things. This mindset found a welcome home in geocaching, as I get to tell a tale every time I hunt for a cache, whether I find anything or not. By their very nature, my DNFs often result in my most interesting logs. :(

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CR said it best, the tools are here to create a record of your geocaching adventures. Your lack of a log isn't going to negatively impact other players.

Cache owners could make a case for being negatively impacted by your refusal to log a DNF but that is a stretch, they can go check their caches.

If you think that you are getting "something" by logging finds then perhaps you believe you are not getting that same thing when you log DNF's?

The best thing about logging DNF's is that the people who like challenges will go and look for that cache simply because a DNF has been logged.

I log all my DNF's and I like to think that others record their geocaching adventures in the same way but I know that you and I and the other guy all geocache for our own enjoyment.

 

These are simple guidelines that you can apply whenever you have a question about the correct way to geocache.

 

Am I making sure that I don't detract from the enjoyment that others take in this activity?

Is this going to negatively impact others who might be searching.

Am I respecting the wishes of the owner of the cache?

Am I respecting others who search for the cache?

 

Worry about people who log caches differently than you do?

Worry about people who don't log DNF's

Worry about a log that someone else left on a cache?

Worry about ethics?

 

Almost every one of those questions is answered by the first guidleine, if you are a cache owner it gets a bit more difficult and at times you have to balance one guideline against another but most cache owners don't specifically demand that searchers log DNF's because they have no way to test that condition.

 

I really appreciate well written DNF logs. They are an excellent source of information for other searchers and they are an excellent source of information for cache owners.

 

The lack of a DNF only impacts the person who didn't bother to write about their adventure.

 

You cannot fail at geocaching and you cannot succeed at geocaching, it doesn't work that way.

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I don't always log a DNF. It just depends on my experience while looking. If a football game is being played at GZ and I don't bother to look, then I don't log it.

 

If I searched, and I think there may be a problem at the site, I log DNF for the owner (even though most ignore my DNF). If I have a safety or guideline concern, I log the DNF and mention that.

 

If I searched and didn't find it, then I'll come home and see why I didn't. A 1/1 with 3 out of 5 logs being DNFs, I get the feeling that the CO gets some perverse pleasure in watching people not find his cache. I don't give him the pleasure he seeks.

 

As far as a DNF being some measure of my self-esteem, it isn't. I don't log Finds for the smileys, I log them for the cache owner to read how much I enjoyed his effort. I log Finds for the cachers who haven't found it yet, so they'll know how much fun I had and will seek that particular cache, too.

 

I think Thoreau had the right idea about different drummers. It fits cachers to a tee.

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DNFs should not be taken personally, and there is no shame. Of the 3 DNFs we recently logged, one had been noted by the CO as missing for a little over a month although the cache is still active. That's what I get for not reading ALL of the logs. But I did go out and search for it, found the most likely hiding spot, can even guess why it's now missing, and DNF. When I got back to the truck and read the logs, I saw that the CO has some intention of replacing the cache "sometime soon". I gave a nice DNF note, hoping the CO sees the email and remembers people are still looking for it. Just a reminder to either replace it, deactivate it, or archive it.

 

My .02 worth

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I track everything we do in an excel spreadsheet and have two columns for dnfs. The one I'm really interested is the dnf where the container is in place and we just plain got skunked.

 

Every time we reach another 100 of those dnfs I post the century mark on our profile page. Currently working successfully toward number 300.

 

Throughout our entire seven years of geocaching the dnfs where a container is in place have remained steady just over 7%. Total dnfs also steady at just over 10%.

 

I like most of our dnfs and the follow-up efforts to correct those situations. Like folks say those stories can be some of the best.

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I log my DNFs.. I watch my DNF's.. and I try to eventually find my DNFs. I have enough that I need a spreadsheet to keep track of them. <_<

We log all our cache attempts and are up to 228 DNFs. Right now, our DNF rate is just under 10%, but there have been times when it's been closer to 11%. Roughly one third of the DNFs occurred because the container was not present and our DNF log was the first for the cache.

 

One may also track their DNFs using a Bookmark list (a method I first learned from The Leprechauns) or by going to one's "My Account," clicking on "Geocaches," and then "Didn't Find It."

Edited by Ladybug Kids
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I am a story teller at heart. There's few things I enjoy more than sitting around a camp fire waxing philosophic, (AKA: babbling endlessly), about all manner of things. This mindset found a welcome home in geocaching, as I get to tell a tale every time I hunt for a cache, whether I find anything or not. By their very nature, my DNFs often result in my most interesting logs. <_<

Same here... same... same... same!

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As a cache owner, I see a DNF logged on my cache as a badge of honor because I outfoxed someone. If no one ever posted a DNF, then I'd feel like my cache was too easy. My best moment was an email received recently from an experienced cacher in the area who admitted to me that he DNF'd one of my caches 3 times and now was begging for a hint. I was ecstatic! I had just done an 8 stage cache of his a week before and I've done several other of his. Some of them are tough! For him to admit that he needed a hint and was DNF'ing my cache, made me proud. If you enjoy the search, then please let the cache owner enjoy the fruits of their labor and admit that they hid it well and you couldn't find it! You'll make some CO's day!

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i often wish that a DNF log used the words "didn't find the cache" as opposed to "couldn't find the cache". often for me a DNF isn't a result of my inability to find a thing, but my low confidence in its there-ness, my contempt for a stupid location, blah, blah.

 

sometimes if i think a cache isn't worth my time i don't bother with the DNF log, but then if i find it later and my suspicions are confirmed i don't have a log to link back on in order to express my full contempt. it's hard to write a log that says "i thought it was a lame cache back when i visited in july and i still think it's lame" if i didn't bother to log the july DNF.

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As a cache owner, I see a DNF logged on my cache as a badge of honor because I outfoxed someone. If no one ever posted a DNF, then I'd feel like my cache was too easy. My best moment was an email received recently from an experienced cacher in the area who admitted to me that he DNF'd one of my caches 3 times and now was begging for a hint. I was ecstatic! I had just done an 8 stage cache of his a week before and I've done several other of his. Some of them are tough! For him to admit that he needed a hint and was DNF'ing my cache, made me proud. If you enjoy the search, then please let the cache owner enjoy the fruits of their labor and admit that they hid it well and you couldn't find it! You'll make some CO's day!

 

i'm not the kind of person whose pleasure in hiding caches comes from people not finding it. i don't need to be validated by people having to show subservience by not finding my caches.

 

want to make my day as a CO?

 

find it. have a good time while you're there.

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As a cache owner, I see a DNF logged on my cache as a badge of honor because I outfoxed someone. If no one ever posted a DNF, then I'd feel like my cache was too easy. My best moment was an email received recently from an experienced cacher in the area who admitted to me that he DNF'd one of my caches 3 times and now was begging for a hint. I was ecstatic! I had just done an 8 stage cache of his a week before and I've done several other of his. Some of them are tough! For him to admit that he needed a hint and was DNF'ing my cache, made me proud. If you enjoy the search, then please let the cache owner enjoy the fruits of their labor and admit that they hid it well and you couldn't find it! You'll make some CO's day!

 

That's one view and I know it's one shared by many cache owners. On the other hand I place my caches to be found and I see a DNF in many instances as a failure on my part as a cache owner. Did I make it too hard? Was my clue not explicit enough? I want to make them easy enough that someone who is looking for it can find it, but someone who isn't looking for it won't find it. Sometimes its a balancing act. When someone logs a DNF on my cache it lets me know that I might not have balanced it right.

Edited by briansnat
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Thanks for this thread! I just checked the forum for the first time to try and find an answer to this question - how convenient! I hate logging DNFs too... I feel stupid, especially when the person before and after me log it as a "quick find." I don't want to falsely alert people that it's not there.

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Hmm, if someone is trying to outfox me and make me spend mindless hours trying to find their cache, that makes it not very fun. I guess the game is played a number of different ways, and to each their own. Good example of when to use the ignore button.

 

There should always be some cache hides in any given area hidden with the intent to outfox us. Most caches are easy to find.

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I guess the game is played a number of different ways, and to each their own.

 

Do you remember Shelter II?

Shelter II has 66 watchers, 37 Finds, 172 DNF's and 412 Notes.

 

There are a lot of cachers who enjoy the challenge of finding a clever hide and some people are pretty good at finding them. You really have hit the nail on the head with your statement, every cacher gets enjoyment from geocaching in their own way. I try and make sure that I don't detract from the enjoyment that others find in their geocaching.

 

I am not sure I would just put Shelter II on ignore, I might even watch to see who finds it. :)

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Hmm, if someone is trying to outfox me and make me spend mindless hours trying to find their cache, that makes it not very fun. I guess the game is played a number of different ways, and to each their own. Good example of when to use the ignore button.

 

There should always be some cache hides in any given area hidden with the intent to outfox us. Most caches are easy to find.

Not only that but all you have to do is check the difficulty rating. Then you can also read a few logs before you head to the cache to see if it sounds fun.

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Hmm, if someone is trying to outfox me and make me spend mindless hours trying to find their cache, that makes it not very fun. I guess the game is played a number of different ways, and to each their own. Good example of when to use the ignore button.

 

If you believe that looking for a cleverly hidden and well cammoed cache is spending "mindless hours" then perhaps you've taken up the wrong hobby. I thoroughly enjoy a difficult hide and think they are the most fun. So to hide one of my own that people find challenging, makes my hide a source of pride. Lifting up light pole skirts might up my totals quickly, but they are not challenging.

 

My cache that has been DNF'd the most is a cammoed micro hidden in plain sight. I can actually see it from my car, but when walking around it, it is nearly impossible to spot. I love the fact that others walk right by and can't find it. I suspect a lot more have DNF'd than admit it.

 

In my area there are several cachers known for their clever and often hard to find caches. I jump at the opportunity to go after these caches. To me they are what caching is about, finding something hidden well. Yes, I'm sure the cache owners want people to find them, but there is also a satisfaction of knowing you challenged someone and they had to come back 2 or 3 times to find it. That's what the DNF's are for, to show that you had to spend the effort to earn the find of a challenging cache. I've personally called one of the local cachers "evil", and I'm not the only one. But I love his caches and never regret DNF's on them. I go back til I find them.

Edited by deb3day
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Hmm, if someone is trying to outfox me and make me spend mindless hours trying to find their cache, that makes it not very fun. I guess the game is played a number of different ways, and to each their own. Good example of when to use the ignore button.

 

If you believe that looking for a cleverly hidden and well cammoed cache is spending "mindless hours" then perhaps you've taken up the wrong hobby. I thoroughly enjoy a difficult hide and think they are the most fun. So to hide one of my own that people find challenging, makes my hide a source of pride. Lifting up light pole skirts might up my totals quickly, but they are not challenging.

 

My cache that has been DNF'd the most is a cammoed micro hidden in plain sight. I can actually see it from my car, but when walking around it, it is nearly impossible to spot. I love the fact that others walk right by and can't find it. I suspect a lot more have DNF'd than admit it.

 

Hours? How about years. <_<

 

Here is a log taken from my most challenging hide -

 

Finally after nearly two years our hunt is over.

Headed off to find Nibble over trails we have walked before.

"I think I've got it," exclaimed Jane as our GPS ran down the numbers. "WHAT!" said chet, "you've got to be kidding."

Quicker than you can say FISH chet had grabbed the line and headed for the GOLD one.

No sooner was the ca(t)che in his hands when two young mountain bikers appeared out of nowhere. They were curious about two old folks being excited in the bushes. Explained the sport of geocaching and of course our excitement. As we headed back to our geoveo we shouted encouragement to a couple of rafters drifting down the S. Saskatchewan River.

GOLDFISH cache is remarkable because of the time and effort to create and maintain it but for us this hunt has been physically and mentally exhausting.

 

Some people have found it sooner, this cacher only spent hundreds of hours -

 

Oh my Stars, For the Love of Liza, its a great day for goldfishing. oh ya,...I found it!!!!That was totally awesome! After hundreds of hours both in the field and the computer its done, kinda sad actually. Now I need to find a new obssesion.

 

I like people to find most of my caches and provide clues that are exact and clear, I tell people who would like to search that they shouldn't read the clues. I have several hides that are intended to challenge advanced geocachers and I don't provide clues unless cachers are willing to email me and ask specific questions. I want the challenging hides found as well but what I really want more than that is the finders to take well deserved pride in their find.

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To me they are what caching is about, finding something hidden well. Yes, I'm sure the cache owners want people to find them, but there is also a satisfaction of knowing you challenged someone and they had to come back 2 or 3 times to find it.

That's what makes caching so fun. Everyone can find the caches they like and cache the way they want.

 

I like challenging hides if they're fun and done right, but I rarely go back to ones that I've DNFd. If I do go back, it's usually with someone else, and if we can't find it a second time, I pretty much call it "done" and basically forget about it. For me, it's no fun looking at all the same spots that I looked at the first two times.

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