Topo & routing

[+Team Gamsci]

I currently have a 60CSx, and have been using the supplied MapSource to upload maps. The handheld unit doesn't route with these maps. Nor does it have topography details.

 

What I would like to have is the topo maps for better lays-of-the-land, but I would also like routing when maps are uploaded to the 60CSx. Garmin says that Topo 2008 "Contains many routable trails, rural roads, city neighborhood roads, major highways and interstates." Will that route me on my handheld?

 

I have also come across that the 60CSx has the capability to have two different map sets. One for actual roads (i.e. City Navigator), then one for topo (i.e. Topo 2008). If that is true, will that be my way to go to do what I want?

 

Thanks.

[MtnHermit]

IMHO: routing at walking speeds is a joke, a beep to tell you to turn right or left, give me a break.

 

However, routing at highway speeds is very valuable. But if a beep will tell you something meaningful, then you likely already know the road and don't need a GPS.

 

Your 60CSx can hold one to a dozen different mapsets, including City Navigator, and it will do routing. But since CN is locked to but one GPS and it costs ~$100, I question the value. Do this: buy a low-end Nuvi, ~$100, it has the same CN pre-installed, it speaks english words, not just beeps. The screen is much larger, includes a car mount, has a 12V cord. Get the picture?!?!?

 

Your 60CSx is a world class handheld, keep it in your hand at walking speeds.

[+trainlove]

As said before, routing is a feature of a map set. City Navigator is one such Mapsource program that has street routing. When you bought Topo, you should have figured that even though it has all the streets in the USA, it's not going to have routing information for those streets.

 

Did it say anywhere on the packaging anything to the contrary?

 

Personally, I prefer Topo. But on my Magellan I also have MapSend Direct Route and one feature I like about that is that its POI database has all public Libraries.

 

Well re-read your post, I'm unsure about Topo 2008 MapSource, perhaps it does combine billions of bits of routing information, along with elevation information for every point in the USA. I just don't see how they could do both in one product and make it managable and usable on a GPS's limited processing power.

 

As for multiple map sets, you can have dozens, not just two.

Edited December 16, 2008 by trainlove

[+Team Gamsci]

MtnHermit,

 

I had thought about getting a Nuvi or similar, but I am trying to keep my electronic gadgets down to a minimum for when I travel. If I could route on the 60CSx, that would help quite a bit.

 

trainlove,

 

I haven't bought Topo yet. The information I had in quotes was from Garmin's website.

 

So it sounds like I'll need both installed on the 60CSx- City Navigator and Topo?

[-Oz-]

So it sounds like I'll need both installed on the 60CSx- City Navigator and Topo?

Yes, that is what I've always had on my 60csx. I finally got a nuvi as well rather than updating City Navigator but still use my 60csx a lot.

 

Now, your other option is to make your own topo map for you area. there are tutorials out there (see my signature). But it takes 1-2 months per state.

[snowfleurys]

Or you could get a product with routing (ie. CityNavigator) on CD or DV and in MapSource combine that mapset with the transparent/overlay contour line data available at xyzggmaps.omgfreehost.com

[SiliconFiend]

IMHO: routing at walking speeds is a joke, a beep to tell you to turn right or left, give me a break.

The beep is probably not all that useful, but if you have routable trails, you can find out "how much farther on the trail until we reach the lake".

 

To answer the OP, Garmin is rolling out maps on MicroSD cards with 24k topo contours + DEM shading as well as routable roads and trails. See here.

So far, they exist for OR+WA (Northwest), CA+NV (West), CO+UT (Mountain Central) and AZ+NM (Mountain South), with the rest of the US coming eventually.

[+Red90]

IMHO: routing at walking speeds is a joke....

 

What it IS useful for is telling you how long the route is. This is very helpful in planning ahead. The trail maps I produce are routeable and it is quite useful.

[MtnHermit]

IMHO: routing at walking speeds is a joke, a beep to tell you to turn right or left, give me a break.

The beep is probably not all that useful, but if you have routable trails, you can find out "how much farther on the trail until we reach the lake".

I can do that now on every map I own, Garmin or Above the Timber. Simply extend the cursor to the lake, its dynamic on my etrex, requires a Enter key on the Colorado. It is one of my favorite GPS features and NOT having those ugly routing lines on top of the map is another "feature". In many recent cases, the GPS has allowed me to find trail-less lakes and other geographic features.

 

You do make a valid point "on the trail" distance, but for most of my hikes in Colorado, elevation gain is a far better predictor of time to destination than trail distance. Hiking on the flat is trivial, not so when you're gaining a few-thousand feet.

[MtnHermit]

IMHO: routing at walking speeds is a joke....

What it IS useful for is telling you how long the route is. This is very helpful in planning ahead. The trail maps I produce are routeable and it is quite useful.

Okay, I'm willing to learn and you and SiliconFiend clearly know more about routing than I. I believe SiliconFiend explained routing to me, six months ago, because of his OMP involvement. I do remember being stunned at the complexity.

 

To do routing on a Garmin GPS map, I'd need to insert/attach routing objects at every road/trail terminus and every intersection. These are coded in the MP language. Then I have to own a routing version of cgpsmapper to compile MP to Garmin IMG. Correct?

 

Perhaps you would be so kind to include a short trail section coded and a screenshot of the map so I could see how it applies.

 

Thanks

[+Red90]

Elevation gain is one part, but so is distance. You can estimate, but why not have the nice unit do it for you and then you know. For myself I have a fairly accurate time estimate formula based on distance and elevation gain.

 

To do routing on a Garmin GPS map, I'd need to insert/attach routing objects at every road/trail terminus and every intersection. These are coded in the MP language. Then I have to own a routing version of cgpsmapper to compile MP to Garmin IMG. Correct?

 

Perhaps you would be so kind to include a short trail section coded and a screenshot of the map so I could see how it applies.

 

You make routing nodes at intersections. GPSMapedit will automatically search for coincident nodes and add routing, if you want.

 

To compile in routeable format, post them to Mapcenter.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Red90

[+Red90]

Perhaps you would be so kind to include a short trail section coded and a screenshot of the map so I could see how it applies.

 

Here is a screenshot of a simulated route. This is my maps (Calgary Area Trail Maps) overlaid onto Ibycus' Topo Maps.

 

Routing Screen

 

Upcoming turn preview

Edited December 16, 2008 by Red90

[SiliconFiend]

Perhaps you would be so kind to include a short trail section coded and a screenshot of the map so I could see how it applies.

 

Here is a screenshot of a simulated route. This is my maps (Calgary Area Trail Maps) overlaid onto Ibycus' Topo Maps.

Thanks for all the nice work you've done on that, by the way. I assisted in the import of your trail maps into OpenStreetMap (meaning: I expanded and partially rewrote the Python translator program, someone else handled the actual upload).

 

MtnHermit, I could give you a routable code sample, but if you're really interested in learning about the routing format for MP files, I'd suggest reading about it from the author, here.

[MtnHermit]

MtnHermit, I could give you a routable code sample, but if you're really interested in learning about the routing format for MP files, I'd suggest reading about it from the author, here.

Thanks SiliconFiend, I did open the link and got to page 2 of Rotweiler's Auto-routing Guide and my head started throbbing. This is like learning any new software, easy once you've done it, anything but until then.

 

Appreciate the help.

[MtnHermit]

Upcoming turn preview

Curious about this screen.

 

Isn't the trail the dashed grey-white line? Since the route follows the trail vector, why is the route, magenta line, off the trail to the left? And, why doesn't the route turn left on the trail?

 

Thanks

[MtnHermit]

MtnHermit, I could give you a routable code sample,

It would be helpful if I could see some MP code AND the resultant trail/road object. I'm not a fluent MP coder, but I've seen enough to recognize patterns. I need an Ah Ha moment.

 

Thanks

 

BTW, we sure have hijacked the OP's thread.

[+Red90]

Isn't the trail the dashed grey-white line? Since the route follows the trail vector, why is the route, magenta line, off the trail to the left? And, why doesn't the route turn left on the trail?

 

The grey dashed lines are trails that are on the Ibycus maps. They are not routeable and not accurate. It is routing on the CATM, which are routeable and accurate. The CATM trails are dashed red.

 

I just noticed that on the turn previews the CATM do not show. Must be a thing with the transparent maps. Interesting. I've never really looked closely at turn previews before.

 

Here is the area with the map view.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Red90

[+Red90]

It would be helpful if I could see some MP code AND the resultant trail/road object. I'm not a fluent MP coder, but I've seen enough to recognize patterns. I need an Ah Ha moment.

 

Just use GPSMapedit. Quick, easy and free...

 

You can have them automatically detect or manually add routing nodes. Nodes can have special features, routing classes....

[MtnHermit]

You can have them automatically detect or manually add routing nodes. Nodes can have special features, routing classes....

 

 

So these are the same roads/trails from GPSMapEdit and the Colo? Showing Road 66 and the Ford Knoll trail. The magenta line is the A to B route in the Colo.

 

If I understood, GPSMapEdit will detect nodes or you can manually place nodes. Can nodes be assigned Properties as a class or group or must I do so individually?

 

Thanks, starting to sink in.

[+bunkerdave]

This is interesting....

 

Here in Utah, we recently opened a rather long and useful stretch of highway called the "Legacy Parkway" that I am using quite often. I would love to add this road to my navigation maps. Is this something I could do with this map editor, and have my GPS route me using this added segment?

[Ken in Regina]

Hi bunkerdave,

 

I don't know about anything other than Garmin products. With Garmin's Mapsource utility on the PC you compile chosen map segments into a single map file to download to the GPS unit (as you already know if you're familiar with it).

 

If you have "Include routing information if available" checked at the bottom of the MAPS tab, if there is routing information in any of the map segments you select, that routing information will be compiled into the resulting (gmapsupp.img) map file that goes to the GPS unit. If the GPS unit is capable of autorouting, it will use any available routing data in the compiled map file.

 

If you do as Red90 does for the Calgary Area Trail Maps and make a transparent overlay with the track of your new highway, add the routing information, convert it into Garmin format and install it into Mapsource, any time you include your "map" in a compiled map for your GPS unit you will have that routing information available.

 

By the way, (this isn't aimed at you) nobody has responded to the outrageous suggestion that the notification beeps on active routes are useless for navigating in a vehicle. They are very helpful. They notify that there is an upcoming turn and they do so in plenty of time to prepare for it. If you mount your handheld near your sightline so it's easy to glance at it, you will see that the turn preview comes up at the same time as it beeps. All the info for the turn is right there in big bold lines and letters at a quick glance. I have used mine for autorouting a couple of times when I didn't have my other nav unit with me and it worked great.

 

If you took a look at the general route when you first calculated it, before you start driving, just the beeps alone are, in many cases, enough even in an unfamiliar area. I was quite surprised at how useful they are. I think this is one of those, "don't knock it until you've tried it" sort of deals.

 

...ken...

Edited December 16, 2008 by Ken in Regina

[SiliconFiend]

MtnHermit, I could give you a routable code sample,

It would be helpful if I could see some MP code AND the resultant trail/road object. I'm not a fluent MP coder, but I've seen enough to recognize patterns. I need an Ah Ha moment.

 

Thanks

 

BTW, we sure have hijacked the OP's thread.

Quite. I started a new thread here.

[+Red90]

So these are the same roads/trails from GPSMapEdit and the Colo? Showing Road 66 and the Ford Knoll trail. The magenta line is the A to B route in the Colo.

 

If I understood, GPSMapEdit will detect nodes or you can manually place nodes. Can nodes be assigned Properties as a class or group or must I do so individually?

 

Yes, they are the same trails except the Co shows Ibycus maps as well which have their own roads and trails.

 

The autodetect, looks for all coincident nodes and places a "normal" routing node there. By normal, I mean there are no restriction on types of turn. Anything else is done manually.

 

Here in Utah, we recently opened a rather long and useful stretch of highway called the "Legacy Parkway" that I am using quite often. I would love to add this road to my navigation maps. Is this something I could do with this map editor, and have my GPS route me using this added segment?

 

It does not work that well running two routable maps together. The unit can only route on one at a time. Older units managed the switching not too bad, but the new ones complain a lot.

[+Red90]

By the way, (this isn't aimed at you) nobody has responded to the outrageous suggestion that the notification beeps on active routes are useless for navigating in a vehicle.

 

I believe he said they were useless when hiking, not driving.

[+efflandt]

What I would like to have is the topo maps for better lays-of-the-land, but I would also like routing when maps are uploaded to the 60CSx.

 

For transparent elevation overlays for City Nav NT see http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/news.asp?ID=446

 

On my eTrex I can chose Garmin topo maps, City Nav NT, or NT and elevation overlays. It may not have as much smaller road, trail, water details as the Garmin topo maps, but can give you the lay of the land when street routing. And on a nuvi or Mobile XT the transparent overlays even work in 3D.

Edited December 17, 2008 by efflandt