Jump to content

Shock Danger of Electrified Objects (Lampposts, etc.) Revisited


Followers 3

Recommended Posts

This is hardly the first thread on this forum on this topic, but it seems to be time to revisit this whole matter. Here is yet one more cautionary tale about the dangers of hiding caches in or on lamp posts, utility power transformers, utility power distribution boxes, and similar objects; I found this report this morning on the web.

 

Perhaps the thing that most brought this danger to my attention was the fact that a few years ago, our local newspaper carried a tale about an electrified lamppost on the campus of a nearby community college. A few students had reported receiving shocks from the lamppost, and the college maintenance department dispatched an electrical maintenance worker to test and repair the pole. The worker apparently touched the pole and was instantly electrocuted.

Link to comment

I hope that Vinnie is pulling our leg by quoting the New York Post as a reliable source of information. If I had seen that story in the National Inquirer or The Star, I might have believed it, but the NYP? Did you know that Caroline Kennedy has been shot?

 

Hey! The NY Post is a great paper! Their headlines over the years have been priceless! How about "Headless Body In Topless Bar", "Manhattan On The Rocks"? And here's a link for a few more: http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/anniversary/35th/n_8568/ . <_<:mad::laughing:

 

As for the shocking news, why is that we only hear about NYC having this problem? I lived in Chicago for several years and never heard that this was a problem. The only problem in my mind is LPCs!!!!

Link to comment

This is as good a time as any to point out that merely being in the vicinity of Vinny is a very dangerous thing. The high-voltage aura he exudes is obvious enough, but many people assume that wearing a conductive Faraday cage is enough to protect them. It is not. Because, as Vinny himself has stated, inside his head is a metastable vacuum state that is teeming with virtual particles.

 

That's right. Vinny is a deadly source of radiation.

 

The dangers of electrocution, drowning, falls, mountain lions, etc. while caching are well-known, and the great majority of cachers have probably experienced most or all of them. But high-energy hadrons are another matter altogether. Perhaps those who cache at high altitudes have given passing thought to the prevalence of multi-TeV cosmic rays, but those of us who cache in the lowlands hardly give them a second thought.

 

And that's the way Vinny wants it. He posts this "cautionary tale" as a diversion from the real danger you would encounter by caching near him.

 

Don't say you haven't been warned.

 

;):D

Link to comment

This is as good a time as any to point out that merely being in the vicinity of Vinny is a very dangerous thing. The high-voltage aura he exudes is obvious enough, but many people assume that wearing a conductive Faraday cage is enough to protect them. It is not. Because, as Vinny himself has stated, inside his head is a metastable vacuum state that is teeming with virtual particles.

 

That's right. Vinny is a deadly source of radiation.

 

The dangers of electrocution, drowning, falls, mountain lions, etc. while caching are well-known, and the great majority of cachers have probably experienced most or all of them. But high-energy hadrons are another matter altogether. Perhaps those who cache at high altitudes have given passing thought to the prevalence of multi-TeV cosmic rays, but those of us who cache in the lowlands hardly give them a second thought.

 

And that's the way Vinny wants it. He posts this "cautionary tale" as a diversion from the real danger you would encounter by caching near him.

 

Don't say you haven't been warned.

 

;):blink:

Aarrgghhh! I resemble, I mean, resent your imprecations, I mean, the implications of what you wrote! :lol:;):D:D

 

The reality is that I have always been very straight-forward and up-front, in my relations with the geocaching community, about the fact that I am the only human alive whose skull hosts a primordial underdense self-sustaining hot lepton plasma (perhapss more accurately described as a primordial hot photon-lepton plasma), and about the concomitant fact, due to the simple realities of relativistic kinetics (RK) and the inevitable predictions of the appropriate relativistic kinetic equations (RKE), that my entire head emits a large and relatively constant flux of high-energy beta radiation, high energy gamma radiation and neutron radiation.

 

And, before you all start to get all worry-wart and melodramatic about all that, you may wish to consider the fact that atmospheric physicists have just confirmed that ordinary lightning strikes emit tremendous quantities of gamma rays, in what is known as a "gamma flash" or "terrestrial gamma flash" (TGF), thus exposing people on the ground and in commercial jetliners to tremendous amounts of radiation.

 

.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
Link to comment
....... hiding caches in or on lamp posts, utility power transformers, utility power distribution boxes, and similar objects;

Is this a particularly American idea for caches?

 

I can't imagine ANY electricity company here giving the necessary permission to use their equipment for Geocaching.

Link to comment
....... hiding caches in or on lamp posts, utility power transformers, utility power distribution boxes, and similar objects;

Is this a particularly American idea for caches?

 

I can't imagine ANY electricity company here giving the necessary permission to use their equipment for Geocaching.

 

They won't here either, but people hide them without permission. Some actually think these (electric box) hides are OK, I am not one of those.

Link to comment
....... hiding caches in or on lamp posts, utility power transformers, utility power distribution boxes, and similar objects;

Is this a particularly American idea for caches?

 

I can't imagine ANY electricity company here giving the necessary permission to use their equipment for Geocaching.

For the most part, the lamp posts in question are not owned by any electrical company.

Link to comment

All I know is that more women than men burn up their cars at the gas stations due to static electricity. What a waste of a perfectly good caching rig before they hit that one last lamppost that would have been the crowning achievement of their electrical career.

Please try to refrain from making light-hearted or sarcastic jokes about lamppost caches. This happens to be a deeply personal and religious matter for me, as I belong to a church which believes that God incarnates on earth only in the form of lamppost geocaches. My religion, the First Holy Church of Divine God Incarnate in Lamppost Caches, also postulates that the only acceptable form of worship for church members is to engage in pilgrimages to numerous lamppost caches and to sign their logbooks, followed by claiming a find online, and further, my religion, which happens to be the only one true religion in the world, also specifies that the ONLY way to attain salvation is to worship frequently at the altars of lamppost geocaches.

 

So, please stop attacking my religion and my religious beliefs.

 

Thank you for doing the needful.

Link to comment

Vinny, poor Vinny. We all know the only true religion is the religion of ammo can in a stump. To reach salvation we must endure hard, difficult treks through primitive regions, brave large vicious animals that view us as a food source, angry bees and wasps, not to mention the ravenous mosquitoes, so we can kneel at the alter of the rotting stump. We are a sturdy bunch, used to many hardships to reach our salvation and we look with scorn on those that need to do the needful.

 

Jim

Link to comment

Vinny, poor Vinny. We all know the only true religion is the religion of ammo can in a stump. To reach salvation we must endure hard, difficult treks through primitive regions, brave large vicious animals that view us as a food source, angry bees and wasps, not to mention the ravenous mosquitoes, so we can kneel at the alter of the rotting stump. We are a sturdy bunch, used to many hardships to reach our salvation and we look with scorn on those that need to do the needful.

 

Jim

Not to mention the Altar of Parallel Sticks.

Link to comment

As for the shocking news, why is that we only hear about NYC having this problem? I lived in Chicago for several years and never heard that this was a problem. The only problem in my mind is LPCs!!!!

A simple google search returned thousands of websites.

 

streetzaps.com tracks shocking reports in New York City, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Las Vegas, Philadelphia, Tucson, and Washington DC.

Link to comment

As for the shocking news, why is that we only hear about NYC having this problem? I lived in Chicago for several years and never heard that this was a problem. The only problem in my mind is LPCs!!!!

A simple google search returned thousands of websites.

 

streetzaps.com tracks shocking reports in New York City, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Las Vegas, Philadelphia, Tucson, and Washington DC.

Googling the article linked by Vinny is pretty scary, especially the story about Faustus.

 

We have an Alberta geocacher, JohnnyGeo, who is the Safety Officer for a major power utility and he always takes the time to make sure that people know about the dangers of electric utility infrastructure, are you reading this thread Johnny?

 

Jodie Lanes' family received over $7 million dollars after she died during a stray voltage incident.

Link to comment

Some of these comments have really hit home at an issue that has been bugging me.

 

There is a cache in our area that I think is an electrical hazard. I have no problem with magent things on lightpoles. Doesn't really give me the 'found it' rush of a container cache in the woods, but I don't think its dangerous either. The danger comes when cache containers are disguised to look like electrical equipment. (not electronics...electrical equipment....light switches, outlets, breaker boxes...etc.)

 

The cache page says that its hidden in plain sight and that you must sign the with a sharpie (which made me think instead of a paper log inside a container, you may be signing the object itself). I have been there several times and I've looked at a garbage can (no houses in area so the can didn't make sense), a mail box (again, no houses in area...mailbox made no sense) but neither was the cache. The mailbox even had a junkmail flyer in it. I then realized that the hint implied electricity. The street has no houses. One side is an empty field. THe other side is the exit of the backs of a gas station and two fast food restaraunts. The GPSr kept leading me to a grassy spot between the two exit driveways, at the base of a pole. I looked under the skirt thinking it was a standard LPC but nothing.

 

The only other thing that looked possible was one of the two large green electrical boxs sitting on the ground next to the light pole. (approx 3ft long, 2 ft tall, 2 ft wide). One showed signs of having been pried open with something. I looked in but it really was covering electrical conduit and wires and a panel which was obviously legit. I shut the door back quickly and decided not to try for that cache again until I get more information.

 

It led me to thinking though, how DANGEROUS caches are if they are disguised to look like electrical devices. Obviously, the cache itself wouldnt' be dangerous, but it does encourage cachers to poke around electrical equipment. Someone else HAD used force to pry the door open and it stands to reason it could have been a cacher who thought they were on the right trail.

 

I've also seen pictures of cache containers (caching websites and ebay) which look like electrical outlets, light switches, conduit and circuit breaker boxes. It is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to do this since REAL electrical outlets, light switches, and circuit breaker boxes could be mistakenly tampererd with by cachers and pose an electrical shock hazard.

 

I love caching and I think its a great thing to do. I also know that if you go hiking up a mountain/ diving, crawling in and out of places...etc... to find a cache, you are taking your own risk and I have no problem with that. Everyone has their own risk-factor that they are willing to take. However, I have a serious problem with caches disguised to look like something that if you mistakenly get the real thing, the conseqences woudl be deadly. We shoudlnt' set a precident of this type which would encourage people to tamper with electrical equipment to see if it is a cache.

 

***hopping back off my soap box***

Link to comment
"On average, 30 fatalities occur a year."

 

Kind of an eye opener, isn't it?

Yes. It's shocking how low that number is. It's approximately the same as the number of people who trip over a hamster and fall into a chipper.
What's even more shocking is how people want to downplay a real threat! ;)
Every year, millions of people in the United States die. Of these millions of people, about thirty of them die in freak public utility executions. The chance of any of us dying in this manner is something like one in ten million. You have a much better chance of winning a couple hundred thousand dollars in the lottery.

 

Real threat? I don't think so.

Edited by sbell111
Link to comment

We shoudlnt' set a precident of this type which would encourage people to tamper with electrical equipment to see if it is a cache.

 

 

I think it's a little late to not set a precedent. I also think that cachers should use their own judgement and should not be afraid to do what you did and just leave the cache alone. I had a recent experience looking for a cache that was near a electrical box thingy. I just left the area. (After reading the logs it seems that the cache wasn't on the box, but a fence nearby.) I didn't feel the need to start removing screws or poking inside the box.

Link to comment

We shoudlnt' set a precident of this type which would encourage people to tamper with electrical equipment to see if it is a cache.

 

 

I think it's a little late to not set a precedent. I also think that cachers should use their own judgement and should not be afraid to do what you did and just leave the cache alone. I had a recent experience looking for a cache that was near a electrical box thingy. I just left the area. (After reading the logs it seems that the cache wasn't on the box, but a fence nearby.) I didn't feel the need to start removing screws or poking inside the box.

I deliberately and studiously ignore ALL geocaches hidden in or near electrical utility transformers, distribution boxes, fuse box panels, etc., and I also ignore 99% of caches which turn out to be hidden on or under lampposts, and I always avoid ALL caches hidden in the hollow space inside hollow metal lamp posts, as those seem like sheer suicide to me!

Link to comment

People can take the risks they choose to take, but it would be good to know the situation before deciding to go for one of these caches. We have warnings for snakes, poison ivy, and other things that most people take for granted when outdoors. Why not have an "electrical hazard" attribute. If TPTB have a problem adding that attribute then shouldn't they have the same problem approving those caches? Seems like ignoring the situation is akin to condoning it.

Edited by edscott
Link to comment
"On average, 30 fatalities occur a year."

 

Kind of an eye opener, isn't it?

Yes. It's shocking how low that number is. It's approximately the same as the number of people who trip over a hamster and fall into a chipper.
What's even more shocking is how people want to downplay a real threat! ;)
Every year, millions of people in the United States die. Of these millions of people, about thirty of them die in freak public utility executions. The chance of any of us dying in this manner is something like one in ten million. You have a much better chance of winning a couple hundred thousand dollars in the lottery.

 

Real threat? I don't think so.

:D:(:D

 

Chances of being hit by lightening is slim as well, but I'll not tempt fate by standing under a tree, swimming or golfing while there's a storm. I suppose I should ignore that obvious and real threat as well??

Edited by Rockin Roddy
Link to comment

Firespinner mentioned coming across a "green box" (pad mount transformer) that appeared to be pried open at some point,this doesn't surprise me.What does surprise me is that someone hunting for a cache lacks the common sense to leave a clearly locked electrical box alone!

I mean c'mon....forcing your way into an electical panel?......sounds like natural selection at work to me...lmao!

 

I don't see a problem with electrical hides. Anything that is real is also designed to be tamper resistant (needing tools,knowledge,or force to gain entry to energized equipment) If you have enough knowledge to gain entry you know to leave it alone! If you have any brains at all you know not to force your way into anything electrical with a screw driver!

 

Fake boxes,switches,and panels can be entered easily with no tools just alittle patients will do. Example: switch (real)...you need a straight screw driver to gain entry...my good common sense says hmm....leave this switch alone.

Example: switch(fake)..looks like a real one but lets have a closer look...oh..wait.....let me pull right...here, wow it pulled right off of that wall with almost zero effort...no tools or nuttin...TFTC!

Link to comment

Firespinner mentioned coming across a "green box" (pad mount transformer) that appeared to be pried open at some point,this doesn't surprise me.What does surprise me is that someone hunting for a cache lacks the common sense to leave a clearly locked electrical box alone!

I mean c'mon....forcing your way into an electical panel?......sounds like natural selection at work to me...lmao!

 

I don't see a problem with electrical hides. Anything that is real is also designed to be tamper resistant (needing tools,knowledge,or force to gain entry to energized equipment) If you have enough knowledge to gain entry you know to leave it alone! If you have any brains at all you know not to force your way into anything electrical with a screw driver!

 

 

Ok, let's take that common sense thing a bit in the other direction, because I've actually seen boxes needing equipment in order for you to get the cache (yep, some sensible cache hider decided they needed to make the fake box look real by closing it up all professional-like)...tamper-resistant?? Not likely! These are a bad hide regardless of how sneaky some hider thinks they are, and hiding behind the "common sense" argument doesn't mean a thing...when a cacher (no matter how intelligent they are) ends up electrocuted, a big black eye for our fun will follow as well as possible headaches for GS and for the cache hider!

 

Go ahead and test that "common sense" theory all you want, just remember that there are a lot of cachers who use less than common sense out there (hey, you pointed that out already)!

Link to comment

A couple of comments:

 

Although the risk may seem to be statistically insignificant (30 out of, what 300 million -- that are reported, that is), it becomes extremely significant to the person to whom it happens -- and to the people who love and care about that person.

 

Secondly, I think it is wise not to increase the opportunities for that number to go up by creating caches that encourage people to investigate electrical equipment (whether or not it is live. It is not good to set up an expecation in a cacher's mind that because most cache hiders make sure that their caches are electrically safe that any cache on or near electrical equipment must perforce be safe.)

 

I'm not saying that cache hiders have to hide their caches to the level of people who are competely lacking in common sense, but common sense also dictates that it is just not a good idea to hide caches that appear to be, or are actually in, electrically dangerous locations.

 

My two cents.

Link to comment

Firespinner mentioned coming across a "green box" (pad mount transformer) that appeared to be pried open at some point,this doesn't surprise me.What does surprise me is that someone hunting for a cache lacks the common sense to leave a clearly locked electrical box alone!

I mean c'mon....forcing your way into an electrical panel?......sounds like natural selection at work to me...lmao!

 

I don't see a problem with electrical hides. Anything that is real is also designed to be tamper resistant (needing tools,knowledge,or force to gain entry to energized equipment) If you have enough knowledge to gain entry you know to leave it alone! If you have any brains at all you know not to force your way into anything electrical with a screw driver!

 

 

OK, let's take that common sense thing a bit in the other direction, because I've actually seen boxes needing equipment in order for you to get the cache (yep, some sensible cache hider decided they needed to make the fake box look real by closing it up all professional-like)...tamper-resistant?? Not likely! These are a bad hide regardless of how sneaky some hider thinks they are, and hiding behind the "common sense" argument doesn't mean a thing...when a cacher (no matter how intelligent they are) ends up electrocuted, a big black eye for our fun will follow as well as possible headaches for GS and for the cache hider!

 

Go ahead and test that "common sense" theory all you want, just remember that there are a lot of cachers who use less than common sense out there (hey, you pointed that out already)!

Sounds like the hider that you're talking about lacks common sense but I stick to not hide behind my common sense theory. Whether your hiding/hunting caches or walking across the street it takes common sense to do either successfully. My best advise to all of you nay sayers is DON'T HUNT 'EM IF YA DON'T LIKE 'EM!

On a side note,why do many posters here seem so hateful and condescending towards others? I've only been here about two weeks and it's already rubbing off on me. I think maybe I'll just start trolling before I hurt someones feelings.

I have fun on the other forums I visit, this one is a CONSTANT pissing contest...later people.

Link to comment

Firespinner mentioned coming across a "green box" (pad mount transformer) that appeared to be pried open at some point,this doesn't surprise me.What does surprise me is that someone hunting for a cache lacks the common sense to leave a clearly locked electrical box alone!

I mean c'mon....forcing your way into an electrical panel?......sounds like natural selection at work to me...lmao!

 

I don't see a problem with electrical hides. Anything that is real is also designed to be tamper resistant (needing tools,knowledge,or force to gain entry to energized equipment) If you have enough knowledge to gain entry you know to leave it alone! If you have any brains at all you know not to force your way into anything electrical with a screw driver!

 

 

OK, let's take that common sense thing a bit in the other direction, because I've actually seen boxes needing equipment in order for you to get the cache (yep, some sensible cache hider decided they needed to make the fake box look real by closing it up all professional-like)...tamper-resistant?? Not likely! These are a bad hide regardless of how sneaky some hider thinks they are, and hiding behind the "common sense" argument doesn't mean a thing...when a cacher (no matter how intelligent they are) ends up electrocuted, a big black eye for our fun will follow as well as possible headaches for GS and for the cache hider!

 

Go ahead and test that "common sense" theory all you want, just remember that there are a lot of cachers who use less than common sense out there (hey, you pointed that out already)!

Sounds like the hider that you're talking about lacks common sense but I stick to not hide behind my common sense theory. Whether your hiding/hunting caches or walking across the street it takes common sense to do either successfully. My best advise to all of you nay sayers is DON'T HUNT 'EM IF YA DON'T LIKE 'EM!On a side note,why do many posters here seem so hateful and condescending towards others? I've only been here about two weeks and it's already rubbing off on me. I think maybe I'll just start trolling before I hurt someones feelings.

I have fun on the other forums I visit, this one is a CONSTANT pissing contest...later people.

 

Yep, that's likely the best way to handle it, stick your head in the sand and pretend life is rosy! No thanks, I'd rather speak out about them whenever I am given the chance!

 

And if you consider these comments as being harsh, you're probably much better off trolling, because I'm pretty mild compared to some in here!! :(

 

Oh, and thanks for helping make my point about common sense. It only takes a few hides like the one I mentioned to make problems, the lack of common sense on the searchers' part isn't the only problem! This is compounded when you start hiding them like I said as it encourages finders to take chances when they should be encouraged to stay away from the threat! Add to the fray some kids who watch as their parents get a cache like this, then want to go off and cache with a friend...I hope all parents have common sense too and know enough to let their youngsters know not to play with what you know nothing about...but I think we can all guess this isn't the case.

Edited by Rockin Roddy
Link to comment

Firespinner mentioned coming across a "green box" (pad mount transformer) that appeared to be pried open at some point,this doesn't surprise me.What does surprise me is that someone hunting for a cache lacks the common sense to leave a clearly locked electrical box alone!

I mean c'mon....forcing your way into an electrical panel?......sounds like natural selection at work to me...lmao!

 

I don't see a problem with electrical hides. Anything that is real is also designed to be tamper resistant (needing tools,knowledge,or force to gain entry to energized equipment) If you have enough knowledge to gain entry you know to leave it alone! If you have any brains at all you know not to force your way into anything electrical with a screw driver!

 

 

OK, let's take that common sense thing a bit in the other direction, because I've actually seen boxes needing equipment in order for you to get the cache (yep, some sensible cache hider decided they needed to make the fake box look real by closing it up all professional-like)...tamper-resistant?? Not likely! These are a bad hide regardless of how sneaky some hider thinks they are, and hiding behind the "common sense" argument doesn't mean a thing...when a cacher (no matter how intelligent they are) ends up electrocuted, a big black eye for our fun will follow as well as possible headaches for GS and for the cache hider!

 

Go ahead and test that "common sense" theory all you want, just remember that there are a lot of cachers who use less than common sense out there (hey, you pointed that out already)!

Sounds like the hider that you're talking about lacks common sense but I stick to not hide behind my common sense theory. Whether your hiding/hunting caches or walking across the street it takes common sense to do either successfully. My best advise to all of you nay sayers is DON'T HUNT 'EM IF YA DON'T LIKE 'EM!On a side note,why do many posters here seem so hateful and condescending towards others? I've only been here about two weeks and it's already rubbing off on me. I think maybe I'll just start trolling before I hurt someones feelings.

I have fun on the other forums I visit, this one is a CONSTANT pissing contest...later people.

 

Yep, that's likely the best way to handle it, stick your head in the sand and pretend life is rosy! No thanks, I'd rather speak out about them whenever I am given the chance!

 

And if you consider these comments as being harsh, you're probably much better off trolling, because I'm pretty mild compared to some in here!! :(

 

Oh, and thanks for helping make my point about common sense. It only takes a few hides like the one I mentioned to make problems, the lack of common sense on the searchers' part isn't the only problem! This is compounded when you start hiding them like I said as it encourages finders to take chances when they should be encouraged to stay away from the threat! Add to the fray some kids who watch as their parents get a cache like this, then want to go off and cache with a friend...I hope all parents have common sense too and know enough to let their youngsters know not to play with what you know nothing about...but I think we can all guess this isn't the case.

So just because you're "mild" that makes you ok?.....love the attitude :D

I'm done now...sorry to the OP for the off topic.

Link to comment

 

So just because you're "mild" that makes you ok?.....love the attitude :D

I'm done now...sorry to the OP for the off topic.

 

No, I guess it means you'd either better grow thicker skin if you want to play in this jungle or go to the trolling you mentioned (which, btw, I think you meant lurking...). My comment didn't imply I was "OK" in any way, it implied there are much more aggressive posters in here than I. You can form any opinion you might wish to from that! :(

 

Back to the OP...I avoid these types of hides (LPCs, elec boxes etc), but I do opt to speak out about them whenever given the opportunity! :P

Link to comment

 

So just because you're "mild" that makes you ok?.....love the attitude :huh:

I'm done now...sorry to the OP for the off topic.

 

No, I guess it means you'd either better grow thicker skin if you want to play in this jungle or go to the trolling you mentioned (which, btw, I think you meant lurking...). My comment didn't imply I was "OK" in any way, it implied there are much more aggressive posters in here than I. You can form any opinion you might wish to from that! <_<

 

Back to the OP...I avoid these types of hides (LPCs, elec boxes etc), but I do opt to speak out about them whenever given the opportunity! B)

I don't need thicker skin,you need some manners! My point is, you can express your opinion without being rude!....Well apperently YOU can't..... :ph34r:

I love that attitude of people today....deal with my rudeness if you wanna play,LMAO

Thats the problem,you and others think you're somehow entitled to be rude and other just need "to grow thicker skin" I really better drop this now, you're not worth my membership.

Link to comment

 

So just because you're "mild" that makes you ok?.....love the attitude :huh:

I'm done now...sorry to the OP for the off topic.

 

No, I guess it means you'd either better grow thicker skin if you want to play in this jungle or go to the trolling you mentioned (which, btw, I think you meant lurking...). My comment didn't imply I was "OK" in any way, it implied there are much more aggressive posters in here than I. You can form any opinion you might wish to from that! <_<

 

Back to the OP...I avoid these types of hides (LPCs, elec boxes etc), but I do opt to speak out about them whenever given the opportunity! B)

I don't need thicker skin,you need some manners! My point is, you can express your opinion without being rude!....Well apperently YOU can't..... :ph34r:

I love that attitude of people today....deal with my rudeness if you wanna play,LMAO

Thats the problem,you and others think you're somehow entitled to be rude and other just need "to grow thicker skin" I really better drop this now, you're not worth my membership.

 

You wish to talk about my manners, why not take it to pm. You want to talk about how dangerous these types of hides are, then let's do that...ok? I will tell you this, if this was rude, you're definitely in need of either growing thicker skin or you'd best stay out of it for fear of your delicate senses. Sheesh... You cry about how rude I am yet you take every chance to come back and stir the nest?? Please, either stick to the topic or go to pm!

 

Oh, and just so you know, my disagreeing with your thoughts on this hardly means I'm being rude!!! You've not seen rude yet, my friend!

Edited by Rockin Roddy
Link to comment
People can take the risks they choose to take, but it would be good to know the situation before deciding to go for one of these caches. We have warnings for snakes, poison ivy, and other things that most people take for granted when outdoors. Why not have an "electrical hazard" attribute. If TPTB have a problem adding that attribute then shouldn't they have the same problem approving those caches? Seems like ignoring the situation is akin to condoning it.
The best reason not to have this attribute is because no one would no how to apply it.

 

Should the attribute be used if the item is fake? After all, there would be no electrical dnager.

Should the attribute be used if the hide is near electrical equipment, but not attached to it?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is attached to electrical equipment, but there is no danger?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is attached (or within) dead electrical equipment?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is hidden in a LPC base, but the location has been checked to ensure that the pole is not 'hot' (after all, the CO touched the pole and didn't get fried).

"On average, 30 fatalities occur a year."

 

Kind of an eye opener, isn't it?

Yes. It's shocking how low that number is. It's approximately the same as the number of people who trip over a hamster and fall into a chipper.
What's even more shocking is how people want to downplay a real threat! <_<
Every year, millions of people in the United States die. Of these millions of people, about thirty of them die in freak public utility executions. The chance of any of us dying in this manner is something like one in ten million. You have a much better chance of winning a couple hundred thousand dollars in the lottery.

 

Real threat? I don't think so.

:ph34r::huh:B)

 

Chances of being hit by lightening is slim as well, but I'll not tempt fate by standing under a tree, swimming or golfing while there's a storm. I suppose I should ignore that obvious and real threat as well??

You fully expect people to be able to judge the danger of an electrical storm for themselves. Why would you not expect them to judge when other circumstances are 'safe enough'.
A couple of comments:

 

Although the risk may seem to be statistically insignificant (30 out of, what 300 million -- that are reported, that is), it becomes extremely significant to the person to whom it happens -- and to the people who love and care about that person.

Nearly everything we do in every day life is more dangerous than this. Should we, therefore, not do anything?

 

Driving to a cache location is more dangerous than searching for an LPC. Should we therefore never again look for any geocache?

Secondly, I think it is wise not to increase the opportunities for that number to go up by creating caches that encourage people to investigate electrical equipment (whether or not it is live. It is not good to set up an expecation in a cacher's mind that because most cache hiders make sure that their caches are electrically safe that any cache on or near electrical equipment must perforce be safe.)

 

I'm not saying that cache hiders have to hide their caches to the level of people who are competely lacking in common sense, but common sense also dictates that it is just not a good idea to hide caches that appear to be, or are actually in, electrically dangerous locations.

 

My two cents.

Perhaps we should no longer hide caches in trees because people could fall out of a tree. Caches should never require a boat because people could drown. (The chance is actually much greater that a person drown while going after one of these than getting electricuted looking for an LPC.)
Link to comment
People can take the risks they choose to take, but it would be good to know the situation before deciding to go for one of these caches. We have warnings for snakes, poison ivy, and other things that most people take for granted when outdoors. Why not have an "electrical hazard" attribute. If TPTB have a problem adding that attribute then shouldn't they have the same problem approving those caches? Seems like ignoring the situation is akin to condoning it.
The best reason not to have this attribute is because no one would no how to apply it.

 

Should the attribute be used if the item is fake? After all, there would be no electrical dnager.

Should the attribute be used if the hide is near electrical equipment, but not attached to it?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is attached to electrical equipment, but there is no danger?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is attached (or within) dead electrical equipment?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is hidden in a LPC base, but the location has been checked to ensure that the pole is not 'hot' (after all, the CO touched the pole and didn't get fried).

"On average, 30 fatalities occur a year."

 

Kind of an eye opener, isn't it?

Yes. It's shocking how low that number is. It's approximately the same as the number of people who trip over a hamster and fall into a chipper.
What's even more shocking is how people want to downplay a real threat! <_<
Every year, millions of people in the United States die. Of these millions of people, about thirty of them die in freak public utility executions. The chance of any of us dying in this manner is something like one in ten million. You have a much better chance of winning a couple hundred thousand dollars in the lottery.

 

Real threat? I don't think so.

:ph34r::huh:B)

 

Chances of being hit by lightening is slim as well, but I'll not tempt fate by standing under a tree, swimming or golfing while there's a storm. I suppose I should ignore that obvious and real threat as well??

You fully expect people to be able to judge the danger of an electrical storm for themselves. Why would you not expect them to judge when other circumstances are 'safe enough'.
A couple of comments:

 

Although the risk may seem to be statistically insignificant (30 out of, what 300 million -- that are reported, that is), it becomes extremely significant to the person to whom it happens -- and to the people who love and care about that person.

Nearly everything we do in every day life is more dangerous than this. Should we, therefore, not do anything?

 

Driving to a cache location is more dangerous than searching for an LPC. Should we therefore never again look for any geocache?

Secondly, I think it is wise not to increase the opportunities for that number to go up by creating caches that encourage people to investigate electrical equipment (whether or not it is live. It is not good to set up an expecation in a cacher's mind that because most cache hiders make sure that their caches are electrically safe that any cache on or near electrical equipment must perforce be safe.)

 

I'm not saying that cache hiders have to hide their caches to the level of people who are competely lacking in common sense, but common sense also dictates that it is just not a good idea to hide caches that appear to be, or are actually in, electrically dangerous locations.

 

My two cents.

Perhaps we should no longer hide caches in trees because people could fall out of a tree. Caches should never require a boat because people could drown. (The chance is actually much greater that a person drown while going after one of these than getting electricuted looking for an LPC.)

 

Again, B) Why do you suppose we are required by our insurance to evacuate the course when lightening is possible? You act as if everyone uses common sense, far from it, my friend! While it shouldn't be our responsibility to protect them from themselves, it is! As evidenced from my insurance question I just posed to you!

 

And please, relating hiding a cache in an obviously dangerous situation is nothing close to driving, what a strawman arument! Maybe if you asked drivers to drive blindfolded...but come on!

Link to comment

The best reason not to have this attribute is because no one would no how to apply it.

 

Should the attribute be used if the item is fake? After all, there would be no electrical dnager.

Should the attribute be used if the hide is near electrical equipment, but not attached to it?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is attached to electrical equipment, but there is no danger?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is attached (or within) dead electrical equipment?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is hidden in a LPC base, but the location has been checked to ensure that the pole is not 'hot' (after all, the CO touched the pole and didn't get fried.

 

Good point, as soon as I saw a "lightning bolt" on the cache page I would start thinking about the wisdom of searching for that cache.

Working with electrical infrastructure is a career choice and a lot of training is provided to workers who are required to work on or near utility infrastructure. I have been through numerous "power awareness " courses and the dangers are real, even so I am still here.

I am not allowed to touch telephone poles without testing the "potential" difference first and they are made of wood!

 

No electric utility is ever going to allow a cache to be placed on any distribution equipment, if a stray voltage incident occurred death would be almost assured. Every cache that is placed on a transformer box has been placed without permission. This listing service would require a "picture" of the cache hiding spot to avoid geocachers hiding a cache illegally and then not mentioning the fact that it is stuck to a transformer or magnetically attached to a distribution tower. There are a lot of caches that utilize plugs or switches in a unique way and for me they are different in that people are normally supposed to be touching this equipment.

 

I have found several caches that were hidden near or around real equipment and the hiders discreetly placed a geocaching sticker on the outside of their cache so even though it looked like the rest of the stuff it was clear to those geocaching where they had to look.

 

At work I am provided with a voltage tester and a special pair of gloves. I have to wear the gloves when doing certain jobs, it is the law. I will not be taking either of these tools out caching with me though! If people are aware of stray voltage incidents they can avoid the danger.

Link to comment
People can take the risks they choose to take, but it would be good to know the situation before deciding to go for one of these caches. We have warnings for snakes, poison ivy, and other things that most people take for granted when outdoors. Why not have an "electrical hazard" attribute. If TPTB have a problem adding that attribute then shouldn't they have the same problem approving those caches? Seems like ignoring the situation is akin to condoning it.
The best reason not to have this attribute is because no one would no how to apply it.

 

Should the attribute be used if the item is fake? After all, there would be no electrical dnager.

Should the attribute be used if the hide is near electrical equipment, but not attached to it?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is attached to electrical equipment, but there is no danger?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is attached (or within) dead electrical equipment?

Should the attribute be used if the cache is hidden in a LPC base, but the location has been checked to ensure that the pole is not 'hot' (after all, the CO touched the pole and didn't get fried).

"On average, 30 fatalities occur a year."

 

Kind of an eye opener, isn't it?

Yes. It's shocking how low that number is. It's approximately the same as the number of people who trip over a hamster and fall into a chipper.
What's even more shocking is how people want to downplay a real threat! <_<
Every year, millions of people in the United States die. Of these millions of people, about thirty of them die in freak public utility executions. The chance of any of us dying in this manner is something like one in ten million. You have a much better chance of winning a couple hundred thousand dollars in the lottery.

 

Real threat? I don't think so.

:ph34r::huh:B)

 

Chances of being hit by lightening is slim as well, but I'll not tempt fate by standing under a tree, swimming or golfing while there's a storm. I suppose I should ignore that obvious and real threat as well??

You fully expect people to be able to judge the danger of an electrical storm for themselves. Why would you not expect them to judge when other circumstances are 'safe enough'.
A couple of comments:

 

Although the risk may seem to be statistically insignificant (30 out of, what 300 million -- that are reported, that is), it becomes extremely significant to the person to whom it happens -- and to the people who love and care about that person.

Nearly everything we do in every day life is more dangerous than this. Should we, therefore, not do anything?

 

Driving to a cache location is more dangerous than searching for an LPC. Should we therefore never again look for any geocache?

Secondly, I think it is wise not to increase the opportunities for that number to go up by creating caches that encourage people to investigate electrical equipment (whether or not it is live. It is not good to set up an expecation in a cacher's mind that because most cache hiders make sure that their caches are electrically safe that any cache on or near electrical equipment must perforce be safe.)

 

I'm not saying that cache hiders have to hide their caches to the level of people who are competely lacking in common sense, but common sense also dictates that it is just not a good idea to hide caches that appear to be, or are actually in, electrically dangerous locations.

 

My two cents.

Perhaps we should no longer hide caches in trees because people could fall out of a tree. Caches should never require a boat because people could drown. (The chance is actually much greater that a person drown while going after one of these than getting electricuted looking for an LPC.)
Again, B) Why do you suppose we are required by our insurance to evacuate the course when lightening is possible? You act as if everyone uses common sense, far from it, my friend! While it shouldn't be our responsibility to protect them from themselves, it is! As evidenced from my insurance question I just posed to you!

 

And please, relating hiding a cache in an obviously dangerous situation is nothing close to driving, what a strawman arument! Maybe if you asked drivers to drive blindfolded...but come on!

You honestly believe that making a comparison to a greater danger is not appropriate in a conversation about a much, much smaller danger? It's possible that you are just trying to deflect the conversation away from points that weaken your argument. Edited by sbell111
Link to comment

 

And please, relating hiding a cache in an obviously dangerous situation is nothing close to driving, what a strawman arument! Maybe if you asked drivers to drive blindfolded...but come on!

You honestly believe that making a comparison to a greater danger is a strawman in a discussion regarding a much, much smaller danger? It's possible that you don't know what 'strawman' means and are just trying to deflect.

 

Do you honestly see that this isn't different?? OK, here's one that might work...let drivers use a road with a bridge out in a blind area and not mark the danger. THAT would be equivelent to hiding a cache in an electric box and not marking it (although, I don't see even marking it as being a good answer, the only real answer is NOT hiding one). Yes, I say strawman. You realize of course, every driver is required to pass a driver's test, right??

 

I believe it is you who are trying to deflectthe conversation, but then, I've seen you do this often enough to come to expect it!

Edited by Rockin Roddy
Link to comment

This thread is a good example of why folks should be told they take full responsibility of their actions. No one can make sure everyone is safe when hunting their caches.

 

I'm not buying into the attribute for electrical devices. First, I think folks can recognize an electrical device when they see it. Second, the attribute would be a spoiler.

 

If someone shows up at ground zero and there are 10 or 20 good hiding spots for a small or smaller, a few of which are electrical equipment, then they have the choice of looking there first, last, or somewhere in the middle. Care should be taken when looking in or around electrical equipment just the same as you would in a hollow log, tree, or stump. Same with anywhere you stick you hand where something might grab, stick, bite, or sting you.

 

Additionally, make a cache "safe" with an attribute can be dangerous. Say you certify your cache is not in a hot electrical box. That leaves the possibility of it being in a dead electrical box. A seeker comes along and transposes a few digits in the coordinates. He's at a different electrical box, only this one is hot. Oops!

 

Every cacher should assume there are dangers around when caching and never assume a cache hunt is safe. Just like handing firearms: never assume a firearm is safe and never ever point it at another person unless you're willing to see them dead. Never assume an electrical box or device is dead--treat is as if it is hot. If you are uncomfortable, walk away.

Link to comment

This thread is a good example of why folks should be told they take full responsibility of their actions. No one can make sure everyone is safe when hunting their caches.

 

I'm not buying into the attribute for electrical devices. First, I think folks can recognize an electrical device when they see it. Second, the attribute would be a spoiler.

 

If someone shows up at ground zero and there are 10 or 20 good hiding spots for a small or smaller, a few of which are electrical equipment, then they have the choice of looking there first, last, or somewhere in the middle. Care should be taken when looking in or around electrical equipment just the same as you would in a hollow log, tree, or stump. Same with anywhere you stick you hand where something might grab, stick, bite, or sting you.

 

Additionally, make a cache "safe" with an attribute can be dangerous. Say you certify your cache is not in a hot electrical box. That leaves the possibility of it being in a dead electrical box. A seeker comes along and transposes a few digits in the coordinates. He's at a different electrical box, only this one is hot. Oops!

 

Every cacher should assume there are dangers around when caching and never assume a cache hunt is safe. Just like handing firearms: never assume a firearm is safe and never ever point it at another person unless you're willing to see them dead. Never assume an electrical box or device is dead--treat is as if it is hot. If you are uncomfortable, walk away.

 

I agree 100%...but not all of us use this same common sense, that's the problem! NOT hiding in or around these dangers would make a safer caching environment IMHO. We have people out there that'll actually use a real box with real equipment which isn't hooked up to power...this creates the appearance of it being real.

Link to comment

Firespinner mentioned coming across a "green box" (pad mount transformer) that appeared to be pried open at some point,this doesn't surprise me.What does surprise me is that someone hunting for a cache lacks the common sense to leave a clearly locked electrical box alone!

I mean c'mon....forcing your way into an electical panel?......sounds like natural selection at work to me...lmao!

 

 

You're making the assumption that it was a cacher that tried to pry open the box. It could have easily been somebody trying to get a hold of the virtual goldmine of metal (well not in today's current market...) to make a little cash for themselves. I've never read of an actual account of a cacher getting a serious zap while caching but I have heard of many stories where people stealing copper wires and electrical devices with the intent of selling them as scrap have closed a previously open circuit.

Link to comment

Firespinner mentioned coming across a "green box" (pad mount transformer) that appeared to be pried open at some point,this doesn't surprise me.What does surprise me is that someone hunting for a cache lacks the common sense to leave a clearly locked electrical box alone!

I mean c'mon....forcing your way into an electical panel?......sounds like natural selection at work to me...lmao!

 

I don't see a problem with electrical hides. Anything that is real is also designed to be tamper resistant (needing tools,knowledge,or force to gain entry to energized equipment) If you have enough knowledge to gain entry you know to leave it alone! If you have any brains at all you know not to force your way into anything electrical with a screw driver!

 

Fake boxes,switches,and panels can be entered easily with no tools just alittle patients will do. Example: switch (real)...you need a straight screw driver to gain entry...my good common sense says hmm....leave this switch alone.

Example: switch(fake)..looks like a real one but lets have a closer look...oh..wait.....let me pull right...here, wow it pulled right off of that wall with almost zero effort...no tools or nuttin...TFTC!

 

You are making two incorrect assumption here that could get you hurt.

 

The first incorrect assumption is that all "fake" electrical box, switch, panel caches do not require tools to open them. I DNFed a cache where the description said that a tool was needed to open the cache but the type of tool wasn't specified. I DNFed the cache because I didn't bring the proper tool with me. After talking to another local cacher my suspicions where confirmed. That cache was a box attached to an electric meter and a screwdriver was required to open the cache.

 

The second incorrect assumption is that all electrical equipment is tamper resistant and the tamper resistant features are working. That just isn't true. Besides tamper resistance is just that. Resistance to being tampered with. It is not tamper proof. If someone really wants in they can get in. That includes those people who "know" the electrical box is fake and "knows" that a cache in there and will do what is needed to get to the cache.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Followers 3
×
×
  • Create New...