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Geo Police


power69
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A. A person commits criminal littering or polluting if such person without lawful authority does any of the following:

 

1. Throws, places, drops or permits to be dropped on public property or property of another which is not a lawful dump any litter, destructive or injurious material which he does not immediately remove.

 

2. Discharges or permits to be discharged any sewage, oil products or other harmful substances into any waters or onto any shorelines within the state.

 

3. Dumps any earth, soil, stones, ores or minerals on any land.

 

B. Criminal littering or polluting is punished as follows:

 

1. A class 6 felony if a knowing violation of subsection A in which the amount of litter or other prohibited material or substance exceeds three hundred pounds in weight or one hundred cubic feet in volume or is done in any quantity for a commercial purpose.

 

2. A class 1 misdemeanor if the act is not punishable under paragraph 1 of this subsection and involves placing any destructive or injurious material on or within fifty feet of a highway, beach or shoreline of any body of water used by the public.

 

3. A class 2 misdemeanor if not punishable under paragraph 1 or 2 of this subsection.

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Does the city of phoenix have a geocache police dept that is tagging cache sites with these stickers?

cache in question is not enabled but just wondering as sticker looks like it came from city. GCRDK5

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The idea of removing a geocache that is probably concealed from view and replacing it with one of these unsightly stickers is absolutely absurd.

 

It doesn't appear to be official or it would likely have the logo of the issuing authority and probably contact information. Odds are it's some sort of anti geocaching vigilante who is doing this. I wonder if he realizes that his stickers may be considered vandalism by local and/or state authorities.

Edited by briansnat
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Are other caches in AZ being removed and stickered or just some by this cacher?

 

I would suspect that local gov't authorities have other (better) things to do than to muggle.

 

GCRDK5 is being watched by one person.

 

See if moving it and making it a Premium Member only cache makes a difference.

 

GCRDK5 has been hidden for over 2 years, why now is it unlawful?

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Having spend 30 years in law enforcement it is clear that the sticker is not from a governmental agency. If if was it would refer you to the specific agency not "state or local." There would also generally be a phone number. Also they wouldn't have a sticker for just geocache. it would be a general littering sticker.

 

That being said it would not be a stretch for a public agency to consider any container left on public property as litter. The term litter can be interperted as anything left not approved by the agency.

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...it is clear that the sticker is not from a governmental agency. If if was it would refer you to the specific agency not "state or local." There would also generally be a phone number. Also they wouldn't have a sticker for just geocache. it would be a general littering sticker...

I agree. It sounds to me like this is one of the following: a prank by a fellow geocacher or an act of malice by a fellow geocacher, or a bizarre attempt by some kind of self-appointed anti-geocache vigilante to have the cache removed.

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I knew a cache that was placed 'without permission' on a nature preserve. When they discovered many new trails 'geo-trails' from the many people attempting to find the cache they put up signs all over stating something like 'if you wander off these existing trails you are subject to arrest'.

Edited by trainlove
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...it is clear that the sticker is not from a governmental agency. If if was it would refer you to the specific agency not "state or local." There would also generally be a phone number. Also they wouldn't have a sticker for just geocache. it would be a general littering sticker...

I agree. It sounds to me like this is one of the following: a prank by a fellow geocacher or an act of malice by a fellow geocacher, or a bizarre attempt by some kind of self-appointed anti-geocache vigilante to have the cache removed.

Strongly agreed.

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I wonder why this person went to the trouble of trying create official looking stickers. Since this particular cache was, it appeears, on private property, the stickers are just silly.

 

I agree it's most likely a disgruntled former geocacher. The best course of action is to not give him any attention and hope he gets bored and goes away.

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...it is clear that the sticker is not from a governmental agency. If if was it would refer you to the specific agency not "state or local." There would also generally be a phone number. Also they wouldn't have a sticker for just geocache. it would be a general littering sticker...

I agree. It sounds to me like this is one of the following: a prank by a fellow geocacher or an act of malice by a fellow geocacher, or a bizarre attempt by some kind of self-appointed anti-geocache vigilante to have the cache removed.

Yep, I think these two got this one pretty well covered...someone had/is having a bad day and decided to take it out on geocaches...

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The idea of removing a geocache that is probably concealed from view and replacing it with one of these unsightly stickers is absolutely absurd.

 

 

On the other hand, attaching one of those stickers to a sheet magnet with a log sheet on the back *would* probably be classified as an "evil" hide and the listing would find it's way to a lot of "favorite caches" bookmarks.

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I was geocaching in AZ last week for the first time and found one of those stickers at "It's a Duck's Life' (GCGDM3).

 

I logged it as "Needs maintenance" and included a photo of the sticker, photos of the site, and the text of the code referenced on the sticker. It didn't look very official to me.

 

I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Today, a week after I logged the find, I was surprised to get email from another geocacher (not the cache owner by the way), which said:

 

You need to remove your find on It's a Duck's Life. You can't claim a find if the cache isn't there. Sorry. Thanks for reporting the sticker.

So, are there geocache user "police" that read random caches and pass judgement on how entries are logged?

 

The email caught me off guard and I'll admit, I thought it was a bit rude and presumptuous - almosts takes the fun out of geocaching.

 

I wonder what others think. Am I in the weeds on this and need an attitude adjustment? I'm always willing/eager to learn and grow and welcome constructive thoughts.

 

Thanks!

Joe (DEZINR from Columbus, OH)

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I was geocaching in AZ last week for the first time and found one of those stickers at "It's a Duck's Life' (GCGDM3).

 

I logged it as "Needs maintenance" and included a photo of the sticker, photos of the site, and the text of the code referenced on the sticker. It didn't look very official to me.

 

I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Today, a week after I logged the find, I was surprised to get email from another geocacher (not the cache owner by the way), which said:

 

You need to remove your find on It's a Duck's Life. You can't claim a find if the cache isn't there. Sorry. Thanks for reporting the sticker.

So, are there geocache user "police" that read random caches and pass judgement on how entries are logged?

 

The email caught me off guard and I'll admit, I thought it was a bit rude and presumptuous - almosts takes the fun out of geocaching.

 

I wonder what others think. Am I in the weeds on this and need an attitude adjustment? I'm always willing/eager to learn and grow and welcome constructive thoughts.

 

Thanks!

Joe (DEZINR from Columbus, OH)

This thread Found it? has been going strong for over four years with examples of logs that cachers feel don't really represent finds. If your experience is a find is up to you and the cache owner (in my opinion). After all, this is supposed to be a game. If I had your experience I would have posted a note and contacted the cache owner to make sure they were aware of the situation. I do personally follow a no cache, no find policy. It just makes sense to me that I can't find a cache that isn't there.

 

I have logged a couple of finds for caches that had "mechanical" problems when I found them that made signing the log impossible, but only after the owner said to do so. I have also posted notes on similar caches when the owner felt I needed to go back and sign the log after repairs had been made. I have no problem with that as it is the owner's choice.

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...it is clear that the sticker is not from a governmental agency. If if was it would refer you to the specific agency not "state or local." There would also generally be a phone number. Also they wouldn't have a sticker for just geocache. it would be a general littering sticker...

I agree. It sounds to me like this is one of the following: a prank by a fellow geocacher or an act of malice by a fellow geocacher, or a bizarre attempt by some kind of self-appointed anti-geocache vigilante to have the cache removed.

Yep, I think these two got this one pretty well covered...someone had/is having a bad day and decided to take it out on geocaches...

The real irony IMO is that by impersonating a LEO in any capacity is a crime in just about every state, plus any federal violations that may occur.

 

Looks like a trip to the woodshed may be in order.

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I was geocaching in AZ last week for the first time and found one of those stickers at "It's a Duck's Life' (GCGDM3).

 

I logged it as "Needs maintenance" and included a photo of the sticker, photos of the site, and the text of the code referenced on the sticker. It didn't look very official to me.

 

I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Today, a week after I logged the find, I was surprised to get email from another geocacher (not the cache owner by the way), which said:

 

You need to remove your find on It's a Duck's Life. You can't claim a find if the cache isn't there. Sorry. Thanks for reporting the sticker.

So, are there geocache user "police" that read random caches and pass judgement on how entries are logged?

 

The email caught me off guard and I'll admit, I thought it was a bit rude and presumptuous - almosts takes the fun out of geocaching.

 

I wonder what others think. Am I in the weeds on this and need an attitude adjustment? I'm always willing/eager to learn and grow and welcome constructive thoughts.

 

Thanks!

Joe (DEZINR from Columbus, OH)

 

Yeah, I just logged a DNF yesterday on a missing cache (construction of a town drainage ditch in the area). The thread referenced by WRASTRO is in fact long-running, and will probably never die off. I'll even admit to being a contributor to it. <_< Account names are never used, and cache pages are never linked to.

 

I'd say what you did is often frowned upon, but maybe I'm just some zany Puritan. Ultimately, I suppose it's up to the cache owner to decide what's a find, and what isn't.

 

And yes, emailing someone when it's not your cache is totally whacked, in my opinion.

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This is someone who has a grudge against caching. These stickers have been appearing up and down the I17 and Route 60 Corridor. Some of the caches are open - all welcome, others are members only. Who ever this person is, they have a premium membership.

 

Some of the local cachers talked with some of the LEOs they know and were informed that the LEOs would not do something like or otherwise be involved - unless it was place somwhere it really should be, like on a bridge.

 

If you look at the sticker, it actually violates the very ordinance it is proclaiming. You will also notice that there is absolutely no contact information regarding the entity that is placing it.

 

I also noticed that while the verbiage is the same, the size/style/color of the sticker is a bit different from some of the earlier stickers that have appeared in the area.

 

I am guessing that someone doesnt like caching / has a grudge and feels the need to "get even" / or is perhaps building up their inventory of cache goodies/containers so they can put out their own "uber" cache.

 

For the cache owners that have been hit, it would be a simple call to your local LEOs and see if they have been doing this. If so, that settles it. If not, see the above, replace the cache and enjoy the hunt.

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PS

 

These "same" stickers have appeared in multiple cities/jurisdictions. Unless this is a state agency that is doing this, its odd that all these cities would have the same stickers.

 

I've cached in 26 states. Could't tell ya how many cities.

 

The person doing this is a disgruntled cacher. No doubt.

Edited by Snoogans
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PS

 

These "same" stickers have appeared in multiple cities/jurisdictions. Unless this is a state agency that is doing this, its odd that all these cities would have the same stickers.

 

I'm just using this as a space to opine, since you have a good take on it...

 

One thing I noticed it the reference on the sticker to Geocache... I doubt any lawful agency would bother

making a sticker that specific... litter, garbage, unwanted item, okay... but Geocache specifically... hmm.

 

I agree with the flow... problemed person, or professional muggle perhaps...

 

Did anyone produce the ID for the chap who sent that 'warning' email... be interesting to hear their side of things... wouldn't it!

 

Doug

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Doug, I think you've hit on it. Why would a casual (or even a passionate) Geocacher be looking at other's finds and passing judgment unless they have a dog in the fight. Follow up on that email and you might very well find out who's doing this.

 

For my two cents, I think the general consensus is spot-on. Someone "in the know" with a premium membership who got his panties in a twist somewhere along the line. It's the same type of person who has the time, talent and inclination to sit around all day and write virus code. "Just because he can"

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I was geocaching in AZ last week for the first time and found one of those stickers at "It's a Duck's Life' (GCGDM3).

 

I logged it as "Needs maintenance" and included a photo of the sticker, photos of the site, and the text of the code referenced on the sticker. It didn't look very official to me.

 

I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Today, a week after I logged the find, I was surprised to get email from another geocacher (not the cache owner by the way), which said:

 

You need to remove your find on It's a Duck's Life. You can't claim a find if the cache isn't there. Sorry. Thanks for reporting the sticker.

So, are there geocache user "police" that read random caches and pass judgement on how entries are logged?

 

The email caught me off guard and I'll admit, I thought it was a bit rude and presumptuous - almosts takes the fun out of geocaching.

 

I wonder what others think. Am I in the weeds on this and need an attitude adjustment? I'm always willing/eager to learn and grow and welcome constructive thoughts.

 

Thanks!

Joe (DEZINR from Columbus, OH)

Only speaking on my own behalf...I would have logged a DNF.

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Well the child is getting the attention he wants in this forum.

Some people can't stand the thought of somebody else having fun.

 

I had an issue with graffiti on a wall near my home years ago. And I adopted the idea that

I can buy more concrete grey paint then the taggers can afford...and cover their work faster

with an 8 inch roller.

The problem was solved in less than 2 months and cost me less than a $12 gallon of paint.

 

So replace the caches quickly and often and ignore his stickers.

 

There are thousands of us and probably only one of them.

 

They will tire of this soon enough and go back to prank calls.

 

Cache on, fellow seekers !

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I was geocaching in AZ last week for the first time and found one of those stickers at "It's a Duck's Life' (GCGDM3).

 

I logged it as "Needs maintenance" and included a photo of the sticker, photos of the site, and the text of the code referenced on the sticker. It didn't look very official to me.

 

I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Today, a week after I logged the find, I was surprised to get email from another geocacher (not the cache owner by the way), which said:

 

Hey Joe.

 

What counts as a Find is between you and the owner. Here's where I stand on this issue:

 

-- As a seeker I would have logged a DNF and a Needs Maintenance log. After all, to me the point of the game is to find the container, not just the spot where a container used to be. There have been many threads discussing how a Found It log when the cache is obviously missing leads others to believe a cache is still in place and viable even though it is missing. (I actually had this happen to me a couple of months ago -- someone removed the remains of a muggled cache and two other people came along later and logged Finds because they spotted some old toys near ground zero. When I looked at the results of the last logs on my GPSr I saw that others had "found" the cache recently which lead me to search much longer than I would have had they properly logged a DNF.)

 

-- As a cache owner I would have sent you an email first and then given you time to change your log. Had that not happened after a few days I would have deleted your Find. (I had to do something similar recently on one of my Multis -- someone logged a Find despite saying "Didn't have time to go for the final today.")

 

Anyway, back to topic: I vote for a disgruntled cacher with nothing better to do.

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I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

How can you "Find" something that is not there?

 

I think most of us have been aware that what we do is technically litter, maintained litter, but litter none the less.

 

Or, looking at it another way, one man's trash is another......

Edited by baloo&bd
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I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Thanks for the input everyone ;) I updated my "Find" to a DNF and then editted the 20+ log entries after that one (since I include a find # on each log - I had to change those numbers. Maybe find # isn't a great idea after all LOL).

 

Joe

DEZINR

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I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Thanks for the input everyone ;) I updated my "Find" to a DNF and then editted the 20+ log entries after that one (since I include a find # on each log - I had to change those numbers. Maybe find # isn't a great idea after all LOL).

 

Joe

DEZINR

If you thought it was a find and the cache owner agreed, it was a find.

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I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Thanks for the input everyone ;) I updated my "Find" to a DNF and then editted the 20+ log entries after that one (since I include a find # on each log - I had to change those numbers. Maybe find # isn't a great idea after all LOL).

 

Joe

DEZINR

You really didn't need to do that...we only offered what we would have done in that situation at that time.

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Hi, I'm the Cache owner for "It's a duck's Life"... as far as I'm concerned, you can log this as a find if you want. I will try to get to it and replace it soon.

Hence...a find is between the cache owner and the finder...

.

.

.

I have allowed similar things on my caches...I was just stating what I would have done as a finder...but that doesn't mean I impose on others what I impose on myself...we all have our own minds...I say finders can make their own decisions regarding cache/location mentality...

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I wonder why this person went to the trouble of trying create official looking stickers. Since this particular cache was, it appeears, on private property, the stickers are just silly.

 

I agree it's most likely a disgruntled former geocacher. The best course of action is to not give him any attention and hope he gets bored and goes away.

 

How does a cacher become "disgruntled"?

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I wonder why this person went to the trouble of trying create official looking stickers. Since this particular cache was, it appeears, on private property, the stickers are just silly.

 

I agree it's most likely a disgruntled former geocacher. The best course of action is to not give him any attention and hope he gets bored and goes away.

 

How does a cacher become "disgruntled"?

I haven't yet figured out how to be 'gruntled'. I would think that you would have to get gruntled before you could become disgruntled.

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I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Thanks for the input everyone ;) I updated my "Find" to a DNF and then editted the 20+ log entries after that one (since I include a find # on each log - I had to change those numbers. Maybe find # isn't a great idea after all LOL).

 

Joe

DEZINR

You really didn't need to do that...we only offered what we would have done in that situation at that time.

I was going post something like this last night. Then I thought about it. He came here to ask whether other people would have logged a find. That indicates he had some doubt as to whether or not it was OK to claim a find in this case. As such I figured he was predisposed to the puritan position of not using the online Found It log unless you actually find the cache. So his decision did not surprise me. If someone does not feel comfortable claiming a find they should not.

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I wonder why this person went to the trouble of trying create official looking stickers. Since this particular cache was, it appeears, on private property, the stickers are just silly.

 

I agree it's most likely a disgruntled former geocacher. The best course of action is to not give him any attention and hope he gets bored and goes away.

 

How does a cacher become "disgruntled"?

I haven't yet figured out how to be 'gruntled'. I would think that you would have to get gruntled before you could become disgruntled.

 

disgruntled = A piggy who has laryngitis.

Edited by Firespinner
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I also logged it as a "Found" because in my thinking, I found the location of the coords, which were marked by the sticker. It seemed fair to me, since I did find the exact spot.

 

Thanks for the input everyone :lol: I updated my "Find" to a DNF and then editted the 20+ log entries after that one (since I include a find # on each log - I had to change those numbers. Maybe find # isn't a great idea after all LOL).

 

Joe

DEZINR

You really didn't need to do that...we only offered what we would have done in that situation at that time.

I was going post something like this last night. Then I thought about it. He came here to ask whether other people would have logged a find. That indicates he had some doubt as to whether or not it was OK to claim a find in this case. As such I figured he was predisposed to the puritan position of not using the online Found It log unless you actually find the cache. So his decision did not surprise me. If someone does not feel comfortable claiming a find they should not.

Heck, I have claimed temps...so don't take what I am saying as being part of the puritan position...

;):D:blink:

 

...I have signed the outside of containers with a marker when they were frozen in place and/or could not be opened to get to the log book...or, in one case...because the log was missing and no paper around I signed the inside of the lid of the cache...

 

No way am I a puritan...and I am ok with that...I sleep well at night... :D

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A cacher makes the claim they "Found" a cache whenever they choose to do so, it doesn't mean that they found the cache it means they are claiming they found the cache. The cache owner then decides if the log is going to be allowed to stand, if it is allowed to stand then the cacher has "Found" the cache.

 

This is a simple process, it only involves two people, there are no rulesnor are there any guidelines for those logging caches, no one else is needed or wanted in the transaction. The cache owner has specific duties as outlined in the listing guidelines but those are not logging guidelines for searchers, they are listing guidelines for cache owners.

 

Dan O'Can made one point that I think is entirely valid, if a log indicates a cache is there by the use of a "Found It" log type and the cacher making the log did not actually make it to the cache I delete the log because it negatively impacts other searchers by indicating that the cache is there when it may be missing, I explain that when I delete the offending log.

 

That is my rule of thumb; Does this log negatively impact other searchers?

 

I do remember a case in the Maritimes where one geocacher simply decided that they longer wished to allow another geocacher to have logs on caches they owned, the logs were all summarily deleted and there was no recourse for the geocacher who had their logs deleted.

 

There are some who advance some personal logging practice as a standard but none of those logging practices are valid guidelines and many are simply stupid. A good rule of thumb is one that operates in the spirit of this site and the spirit of fun.

Are other geocachers searching for this cache negatively impacted by this log?

Are your practices as a cache owner adding to the fun of geocaching or detracting from the fun of geocaching?

 

Anyone who sends emails to another geocacher offering criticism of the practices used to log any cache is way out of line. Anyone who uses the word "cheater" about a geoacher logging a cache they don't own doesn't understand geocaching at all.

A cache owner can call people "cheaters" and delete their logs, that isn't fun. Even though I find it necessary to delete logs once in awhile it isn't something I like to do. I don't feel like I am policing the geocaching landscape but I do feel that I am "policing" my caches.

 

I think geocachers really should try and log caches in the fashion intended by the owner, if they don't have fun logging the cache in the fashion requested by the owner then they can choose not to log the cache.

Most cache owners are flexible but I have met some who complain about logs on caches they own, apparently they don't understand that they are responsible for their caches. ;)

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I never said I don't monitor my caches and their logs...I do. Just trying to say, that in this case, I would not have claimed a find...but I would have felt the one that DEZINR posted was fine (in my point of view)...

 

1) Reasoning was explained

2) Followed up the "Found It" with a Needs Maintenance (not hiding anything)

3) I am not going to hold it against a cacher that someone (knowing full well what geocache is) decided to be a jerk and ruin the fun for everyone else...

 

I have deleted "Found It" logs...and yes, it is no fun...(I do send emails as followup to explain why I deleted a log and I don't delete without first checking the cache to verify) but I have only done so when it seemed fairly clear the cache was not actually found and there was no effort to find said cache...(in the case of ALR's...to be sure the directions were actually followed)...

 

...to make a long explanation short...each situation is judged on its own merit and I take action to what I feel is appropriate...

Edited by ArcherDragoon
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