"Hack" to find unpublished geocaches

[+ok67]

It is possible, to some extent, to access an unpublished cache description and use that information to find a cache before it is published. Should that "hole" in geocaching.com be removed or is it a wanted feature of the site?

[+trainlove]

I dare you to provide me with any information about my 2 unpublished caches.

 

GCnumber would be fine.

Name wouldn't be since I did something to try to get someone else to find one of them.

Coordinates, or parking coordinates would be acceptable for this challenge.

Anything I say on any of those cache pages would be fine.

...

 

I shall amend the challenge to OK67, the word me in the first sentence can actually be us, at least for the one cache of mine that's not going to ever be placed.

The other one that's been created for at least 17 months and not yet placed I'm asking that you do not provide too much public information here. OK?

 

But I don't believe that you can provide any information at all.

Edited December 10, 2008 by trainlove

[+9Key]

I dare you to provide me with any information about my 2 unpublished caches.

 

GCnumber would be fine.

Name wouldn't be since I did something to try to get someone else to find one of them.

Coordinates, or parking coordinates would be acceptable for this challenge.

Anything I say on any of those cache pages would be fine.

...

I would be interested to see this too since I have a few caches in the approval queue as well. Let's see it dude.

[+DavidMac]

It is possible, to some extent, to access an unpublished cache description and use that information to find a cache before it is published.

 

How? Give us the details and we'll check it out to see if it's something to be concerned about.

 

just kidding. If you've found a bug email Groundspeak at the contact@ address and let them know.

 

I know of two methods to get the coordinates for an unpublished cache. But in either case all you can get is the coordinates. One method involves triangulation and can be used (only in specific cases) to estimate the coordinates to within a few hundred feet. Another method is a site loophole which will return the exact coordinates if you know the GC code. I have never use either method to locate a cache. And no, I will not reveal them to anyone except an admin/moderator, no matter how nicely you ask.

Edited December 10, 2008 by DavidMac

[+baloo&bd]

It is possible, to some extent, to access an unpublished cache description and use that information to find a cache before it is published.

 

How? Give us the details and we'll check it out to see if it's something to be concerned about.

 

just kidding. If you've found a bug email Groundspeak at the contact@ address and let them know.

 

I know of two methods to get the coordinates for an unpublished cache. But in either case all you can get is the coordinates. One method involves triangulation and can be used (only in specific cases) to estimate the coordinates to within a few hundred feet. Another method is a site loophole which will return the exact coordinates if you know the GC code. I have never use either method to locate a cache. And no, I will not reveal them to anyone except an admin/moderator, no matter how nicely you ask.

 

Place a bug in one of those unpublished caches and see how quickly it gets found before it gets published.

[+trainlove]

I need to add here for anyone wanting to cheat using these methods.

 

An unpublished cache might not yet actually physically exist at the site you figure out. Neither of my 2 do, and 1 of them never will.

 

And an unpublished cache can have any coordinates that you want, even right on top of an existing cache. This goes out the window when it come time to get it reviewed.

 

As for travel bugs, it can't be any old bug. There is a minimum requirement that will make it work. As can be seen by one of mine where that minimum requirement is not fullfilled.

 

I take from the original posting that the actual cache page, of an unpublished cache (that was never published and retracted) can be read. That's not true.

Edited December 10, 2008 by trainlove

[+ok67]

I did not say that is was possible to find all unpublished caches.

 

But if someone happens to drop a trackable item in an unpublished cache it is possible to get hold on most of the information about the cache prior to its publication. The secret, which actually is not any secret any more since it has been discussed on a Norwegian cache-forum the last days, is to get hold on the GUID of the cache. This is possible if a trackable item is dropped in the cache by the owner prior to its publication. It is not straight forward, but it is possible. If you know the GUID of the cache it is possible, by using the "right method" to get access to the cache page of the unpublished cache.

 

This cache (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC1JDMG&Submit6=Go) was found before it was published by this "method", and has caused a hefty discussion on the Norwegian geocache forum at gcinfo.no

[Mr.Yuck]

 

I take from the original posting that the actual cache page, of an unpublished cache (that was never published and retracted) can be read. That's not true.

 

Correct. But I'm sure the OP means the methods that have been mentioned thus far for obtaining coordinates (or close coordinates). I have heard, on a couple of rare occasions, of cache owners and FTF hounds getting ticked off at individuals in their areas who employ these tactics as often as they can pull it off.

 

EDIT: Ooops, posting near the same time as the post above me. And saying just about the same thing. Man, that sounds like an interesting discussion on that cache page, I wish I could read it.

Edited December 10, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+trainlove]

The secret, which actually is not any secret any more since it has been discussed on a Norwegian cache-forum the last days, is to get hold on the GUID of the cache.

Where have you been for at least the last 4 years. This is not new information. Your initial postiing made it sound like you found something completely new.

[+ok67]

The secret, which actually is not any secret any more since it has been discussed on a Norwegian cache-forum the last days, is to get hold on the GUID of the cache.

Where have you been for at least the last 4 years. This is not new information. Your initial postiing made it sound like you found something completely new.

 

That might be. I have not been aware of it before a few days ago. If it has been like this for a long time; is it a wanted feature or should this possibility be removed. After all it makes it possible to cheat (if someone puts a trackable item in an unpublished cache).

[+StarBrand]

....

That might be. I have not been aware of it before a few days ago. If it has been like this for a long time; is it a wanted feature or should this possibility be removed. After all it makes it possible to cheat (if someone puts a trackable item in an unpublished cache).

Since this is only a listing service - and TPTB do not advocate any form of competition centered around the listings - It is not going to be a high priority to change something like this limited 'loophole'.

[+ArcherDragoon]

....

That might be. I have not been aware of it before a few days ago. If it has been like this for a long time; is it a wanted feature or should this possibility be removed. After all it makes it possible to cheat (if someone puts a trackable item in an unpublished cache).

Since this is only a listing service - and TPTB do not advocate any form of competition centered around the listings - It is not going to be a high priority to change something like this limited 'loophole'.

I was thinking the same thing...

 

Big Deal...so someone gets there before I do...they can test out the coords for the rest of us...

[Keystone]

If this loophole bothers you as a cache owner, my standard recommendation over the years is to do the following:

 

1. Setup your cache page. Choose coordinates in the middle of a swamp or on an island in a raging river. Choose a cache name like "swampy adventure" or "island of the lost," consistent with the selected location.

2. Drop several trackables into the cache.

3. Change the cache name and coordinates to the actual cache location before submitting it for review.

4. Round up some friends, some lawn chairs and an ample supply of your favorite beverage.

5. Select a comfortable vantage point within sight of the false coordinates.

6. Have a party. If an FTF gun-jumper shows up, post the video on YouTube. If nobody shows up, you still enjoyed an ample supply of your favorite beverage.

[+TrailGators]

If this loophole bothers you as a cache owner, my standard recommendation over the years is to do the following:

 

1. Setup your cache page. Choose coordinates in the middle of a swamp or on an island in a raging river. Choose a cache name like "swampy adventure" or "island of the lost," consistent with the selected location.

2. Drop several trackables into the cache.

3. Change the cache name and coordinates to the actual cache location before submitting it for review.

4. Round up some friends, some lawn chairs and an ample supply of your favorite beverage.

5. Select a comfortable vantage point within sight of the false coordinates.

6. Have a party. If an FTF gun-jumper shows up, post the video on YouTube. If nobody shows up, you still enjoyed an ample supply of your favorite beverage.

[+Parabola]

If this loophole bothers you as a cache owner, my standard recommendation over the years is to do the following:

 

1. Setup your cache page. Choose coordinates in the middle of a swamp or on an island in a raging river. Choose a cache name like "swampy adventure" or "island of the lost," consistent with the selected location.

2. Drop several trackables into the cache.

3. Change the cache name and coordinates to the actual cache location before submitting it for review.

4. Round up some friends, some lawn chairs and an ample supply of your favorite beverage.

5. Select a comfortable vantage point within sight of the false coordinates.

6. Have a party. If an FTF gun-jumper shows up, post the video on YouTube. If nobody shows up, you still enjoyed an ample supply of your favorite beverage.

That kind of sound's like fun.

[+W8TTS]

If this loophole bothers you as a cache owner, my standard recommendation over the years is to do the following:

 

1. Setup your cache page. Choose coordinates in the middle of a swamp or on an island in a raging river. Choose a cache name like "swampy adventure" or "island of the lost," consistent with the selected location.

2. Drop several trackables into the cache.

3. Change the cache name and coordinates to the actual cache location before submitting it for review.

4. Round up some friends, some lawn chairs and an ample supply of your favorite beverage.

5. Select a comfortable vantage point within sight of the false coordinates.

6. Have a party. If an FTF gun-jumper shows up, post the video on YouTube. If nobody shows up, you still enjoyed an ample supply of your favorite beverage.

 

A new cache type "Gotcha".

[+Juicepig]

you can break into their house and turn on their computer hoping that they saved their GC password..

 

I wouldnt advise it though!

[Keystone]

All joking aside, the best way presently available to guard against this issue is to NOT drop trackables into a cache until right after it's published. Some reviewers use form letters which caution cache hiders about this. Since it hasn't been a problem in my area, I don't post warnings when I review new caches.

 

From a site development standpoint, the ways to close the loophole could include (1) blocking the ability to drop a trackable into an unpublished cache, and (2) reprogramming how the trackable movement and mapping processes work, to obscure the coordinates. The first would inconvenience legitimate users, and the second would presumably require a lot of programming at a time when development resources are needed on many other projects.

[+trainlove]

All joking aside, the best way presently available to guard against this issue is to NOT drop trackables into a cache until right after it's published. Some reviewers use form letters which caution cache hiders about this. Since it hasn't been a problem in my area, I don't post warnings when I review new caches.

Or only put travel bugs that have never moved into an unpublished cache. If it has been to only one cache then the unpublished cache will be the second one and a map will then exist. If the bug has never been anywhere, or while a bug has only been to one cache, no such map exists.

 

But all this reallly only matters for traditionals and letterbox hybrids and possibly multi's dependinig on what's needed on the cache page. Puzzles require you to read the cache page, so drop away travel bugs galore and get lots of people to salivate until you actually get it published.

[LQ]

All joking aside, the best way presently available to guard against this issue is to NOT drop trackables into a cache until right after it's published. Some reviewers use form letters which caution cache hiders about this. Since it hasn't been a problem in my area, I don't post warnings when I review new caches.

 

From a site development standpoint, the ways to close the loophole could include (1) blocking the ability to drop a trackable into an unpublished cache, and (2) reprogramming how the trackable movement and mapping processes work, to obscure the coordinates. The first would inconvenience legitimate users, and the second would presumably require a lot of programming at a time when development resources are needed on many other projects.

 

I think this is a so well known loop hole, that you actually can consider your cache as being "published" when you drop a trackable there. In Finland we have a TLA for these prefinds; FBA (=Found Before Apporval). The reviewers did not find anything inappropriate in my idea for this mystery cache. If the loop holes were to be effectively removed, I would be forced to archive that cache. Did I spoil anything?

[+Xaa]

There are more issues than just the dropping TB's in unpublished caches. Some of which seem so incredibly easy to fix that you wonder why they are not fixed. Then again, it's only FTF, who carez...

[LQ]

I dare you to provide me with any information about my 2 unpublished caches.

 

GCnumber would be fine.

But I don't believe that you can provide any information at all.

 

Challenge accepted... here's one: GC1GAMA, two more to go.

[+Cornix]

Challenge accepted... here's one: GC1GAMA, ...

 

****** * *******, *****

 

Placed by: not madmin, honest

Placed Date: 12/11/1910

 

N 42° 30.000 W 071° 45.000

UTM: 19T E 274035 N 4708958

 

Size: Large Difficulty: 1.5 out of 5 Terrain: 1.5 out of 5

Short Description: someones yard most likely.

 

Long Description:

Was thinking of making a puzzle called a half and three quarters. Got it? Well it's not a yard, it's half way from a condo complex and some not-so-high tension lines.

 

I shall use this cache to demonstrate all the html and bbcode tags that a cache page or travel bug page can use. I'll also perhaps use this one to demonstrate all the tags that can be used in a log too.

 

Additional Hints: abar

 

Do you need the additional waypoints, too?

 

Edit: cache name removed

Edited December 12, 2008 by Cornix

[+trainlove]

Do you need the additional waypoints, too?

Sure why not.

But do you know the significance of that name?

 

And are you curious how I managed to get the very nice mathematically relevant GC number?

Edited December 12, 2008 by trainlove

[LQ]

Do you need the additional waypoints, too?

Sure why not.

Hmm... I see.

B[E:I]1GAMA:

<wpt lat="42.501667" lon="-71.753333">
<wpt lat="42.505" lon="-71.756667">
<wpt lat="42.508333" lon="-71.76">
<wpt lat="42.511667" lon="-71.763333">
<wpt lat="42.515" lon="-71.75">
<wpt lat="30.500167" lon="-71.750175">

Edited December 12, 2008 by lq

[+trainlove]

Hmm... I see.

But what type are each of them? What codes did I use on naming them? What description did I give to each of them...

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

Hmm... I see.

But what type are each of them? What codes did I use on naming them? What description did I give to each of them...

 

If he has really found one of your unpublished caches you should be congratulating him instead of demanding useless details.

 

Is it time to eat your words instead of popcorn?

 

Nice work lq

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+trainlove]

Is it time to eat your words instead of popcorn?

No.

Into that one unpublished cache I had intentionally placed one of my non-moving travel bugs about 4 months ago to try to snare people. The method used is well known.

 

If on the otherhand some information about either of my 2 other unpublished caches is displayed then I'll buy someone a beer.

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

Is it time to eat your words instead of popcorn?

No.

Into that one unpublished cache I had intentionally placed one of my non-moving travel bugs about 4 months ago to try to snare people. The method used is well known.

 

If on the otherhand some information about either of my 2 other unpublished caches is displayed then I'll buy someone a beer.

 

It might have been nice if you had mentioned that previously!

 

So, am I to understand that the text from the cache page and the additional waypoints are from your unpublished cache or not? And if they are how would you explain that?

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan Mi

[+trainlove]

It might have been nice if you had mentioned that previously!

Didn't you read that in post #2? Or the ongoing discussion of how everyone thought he was talking of a new method that would work with any unpublished cache?

 

So, am I to understand that the text from the cache page and the additional waypoints are from your unpublished cache or not? And if they are how would you explain that?

Huh? Everything here is all about one or more of my unpublished caches.

Any cache that is unpublished, and has any travel bug in it could in theory have any information in it seen by anyone. Except perhaps for a PMO cache by a non-PM. Have you not been reading this thread?

Edited December 12, 2008 by trainlove

[CLV3]

It is possible, to some extent, to access an unpublished cache description and use that information to find a cache before it is published.

 

How? Give us the details and we'll check it out to see if it's something to be concerned about.

 

just kidding. If you've found a bug email Groundspeak at the contact@ address and let them know.

 

I know of two methods to get the coordinates for an unpublished cache. But in either case all you can get is the coordinates. One method involves triangulation and can be used (only in specific cases) to estimate the coordinates to within a few hundred feet. Another method is a site loophole which will return the exact coordinates if you know the GC code. I have never use either method to locate a cache. And no, I will not reveal them to anyone except an admin/moderator, no matter how nicely you ask.

 

Place a bug in one of those unpublished caches and see how quickly it gets found before it gets published.

 

Thats why I never place any bugs in caches before they are published. I heard of that issue happening.

[+Cornix]

Into that one unpublished cache I had intentionally placed one of my non-moving travel bugs about 4 months ago to try to snare people. The method used is well known.

 

If on the otherhand some information about either of my 2 other unpublished caches is displayed then I'll buy someone a beer.

Just post the GC-Id here and I'll give you the cache details. A TB in the cache is not needed.

[LQ]

If on the otherhand some information about either of my 2 other unpublished caches is displayed then I'll buy someone a beer.

 

Beer would be nice... Long description:"A location of a waymark of mine. And might become a real cache too."

 

Just post the GC-Id here and I'll give you the cache details. A TB in the cache is not needed.

That's exactly why I left out the GC code from this post.

Edited December 12, 2008 by lq

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

Just post the GC-Id here and I'll give you the cache details. A TB in the cache is not needed.

So it is possible, as the OP stated, "to access an unpublished cache description". And it isn't a "theory". Kudos to Cornix and lg for their work! I wish you both lived a little closer - I'd like to drink a beer with both of you. Well, truth be told - more than one beer. On me of course.

 

Beer would be nice... Long description:"A location of a waymark of mine. And might become a real cache too."

And it would appear it doesn't take a travel bug to access the the unpublished cache page in the first place. Boy, this could get expensive buying you two beer if I could get there in the first place. But I think it would be worth it.

 

Bravo gentlemen!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+pailakka]

Oh, I must add to lq's post that this second cache is archive proof and it is placed in N42.566667 W71.8. Encrypted hint is "ab ar", happy hunting

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

Oh, I must add to lq's post that this second cache is archive proof and it is placed in N42.566667 W71.8. Encrypted hint is "ab ar", happy hunting

 

Looks like I'm going to be buying a lot of beer if I ever make it over to the other side of the big pond! At least a couple for you too Pailakka.

 

I'm not having much luck finding out exactly how you're doing it, just some hints. And Lord knows I'm not much good at puzzles either.

 

But I do know that there was a big hint about these methods that got overlooked by most.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[Mr.Yuck]

Oh, I must add to lq's post that this second cache is archive proof and it is placed in N42.566667 W71.8. Encrypted hint is "ab ar", happy hunting

 

I think you should buy me a beer for having an "abar" hint on a cache page. Which decrypts to "none". Why would you do that?

[+power69]

All joking aside, the best way presently available to guard against this issue is to NOT drop trackables into a cache until right after it's published. Some reviewers use form letters which caution cache hiders about this. Since it hasn't been a problem in my area, I don't post warnings when I review new caches.

wow ive done this when i have a cache thats large enough for coins or bugs. so one can look at my trackables and see if i've dropped any into a cache ive hid thats not published? well i wont be dropping trackables into my caches til after they're published. the trackables will physically be in the cache but wont be dropped til after publish.