How to build a cache raid listing with driving distances considered

[+FireRef]

I am trying to build a list of caches to go to, in the shortest order possible. I know the cache raid macro for GSAK will do a similar thing, but the caches are listed as closest to each other by straight line distance. I got burned by this trying to do some around a body of water a week ago, and a few days ago by railroad tracks with limited crossings. Is there a map program that you can put the POI's into for closest caches, and it will calculate the most efficient route among them by driving?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited December 2, 2008 by FireRef

[+StarBrand]

Microsoft Streets and Trips can do this pretty well. They call it optimize route.

[Skippermark]

Yes, I use MS Streets & Trips for that. You tell it which cache you to be the first and last on the trip and it figures out the best way to do the others in between.

 

It's very good. Don't try to second guess it or your finds per hour will go down.

[+FireRef]

When you do that, do you use the export as a MS&T text file to get the POI's into it.

[+trainlove]

When you do that, do you use the export as a MS&T text file to get the POI's into it.

No I don't think so.

 

I think they have their co-pilot or navigator manage the laptop and/or just have the laptop 'talk' to you about turn here, go straight for so long... What's in the GPS is just the caches and the GPS is just for getting to the caches after departing the car.

 

Well that's how WeatherednBoston and I have done it for about 500 of our last cache finds.

Edited December 2, 2008 by trainlove

[+StarBrand]

Yes - from GSAk - export as a text file and then import the points into S&T.

 

Then in S&T - select all the caches you want to go to as points along a route. Be careful to select a beginning one and ending one. Then click the "optimize route" - let it do its thing (could take a while in some cases). Then you can print out the directions or route.

[+FireRef]

That's what I was thinking of - Thank you very much!

[+wimseyguy]

You can take routing with S&T one step further by adding a remote antenna plugged into the laptop. Then you have real time info on the screen for your location. It makes it a little easier to reroute on the fly if you need to.

[Skippermark]

You can take routing with S&T one step further by adding a remote antenna plugged into the laptop. Then you have real time info on the screen for your location. It makes it a little easier to reroute on the fly if you need to.

I've tried that for fun, and it works great, but unfortunately, my car doesn't have a lot of room.

 

I went caching with someone this weekend who had a laptop setup in his truck. I thought having a Nuvi was enough, but once you see a laptop in action, that's all you want to cache with. It's amazing to see a huge screen with all the caches nearby in the area.

 

[+FireRef]

Wow - and I thought I was a techie! Sheesh! Mobile computer lab there!

[+FireRef]

Will this work with Street Atlas USA 2009?

[Skippermark]

Street Atlas does do road routing, and I know you can send GPX files to it, but I'm not sure if it has the "optimize route" feature to put the caches in the most efficient order.

 

That's what I love about Streets & Trips. It takes all the guesswork out of figuring out where to go next because it knows which streets are one ways and that a cache might be only 1/4 mile away but there's a river in the way that requires a 5 mile drive to get around...things like that.

[+wimseyguy]

It should. I see Street Atlas as an option in the GSAK drop down menu. But I don't know if SA can optimize routes the way S&T does as I have never used it. S&T is pretty cheap though, about $30 at Sams Club.

 

It doesn't always give you the best route though. It often ignores entrances to parks and suggests that you drive through someone's backyard for a more direct route. It can also be set to minimize left turns; which can really slow down a cache run in a high traffic area.

Edited December 2, 2008 by wimseyguy

[Skippermark]

It often ignores entrances to parks and suggests that you drive through someone's backyard for a more direct route. It can also be set to minimize left turns; which can really slow down a cache run in a high traffic area.

Do you use it while caching? Is the minimize left turns available when optimizing the caches or only when driving. Left turns can be a real hang up when caching. I'd like to see how a right turn optimized route compares to a standard one. It may be a little more mileage, but I'm guessing a huge time saver.

[+markandsandy]

It should. I see Street Atlas as an option in the GSAK drop down menu. But I don't know if SA can optimize routes the way S&T does as I have never used it. S&T is pretty cheap though, about $30 at Sams Club.

 

It doesn't always give you the best route though. It often ignores entrances to parks and suggests that you drive through someone's backyard for a more direct route. It can also be set to minimize left turns; which can really slow down a cache run in a high traffic area.

 

If I have time I'll try optimizing routes with Street Atlas 2008 tonight.

 

I bought SA 2008 with the LT-20 GPSr to use in my truck. The LT-20 stays connected and leaves my Vista free for when I'm out of the truck. Caches loaded from GSAK. It's great when you are driving to a lot of caches.

[+sbell111]

You can take routing with S&T one step further by adding a remote antenna plugged into the laptop. Then you have real time info on the screen for your location. It makes it a little easier to reroute on the fly if you need to.

I've tried that for fun, and it works great, but unfortunately, my car doesn't have a lot of room.

 

I went caching with someone this weekend who had a laptop setup in his truck. I thought having a Nuvi was enough, but once you see a laptop in action, that's all you want to cache with. It's amazing to see a huge screen with all the caches nearby in the area.

 

That setop looks great if you are going after P&Gs all day, but I wouldn't want to leave it unattended in a remote lot while I hiked along a trail.

[+StarBrand]

.....

That setop looks great if you are going after P&Gs all day, but I wouldn't want to leave it unattended in a remote lot while I hiked along a trail.

I'm glad I live in an area where I don't even have to think about things like that.........Even when I park in town for the day.

[+Strider]

If you use Streets & Trips, and GSAK, you can get a macro in GSAK that will make export files for S&T that will tell you what type of cache each is. You then change each icon to the right type for Geocaching. It makes your trip a lot easier, you can steer away from any types you might not want to attempt. We route on the fly, but S&T is great for either method.

 

 

I am trying to build a list of caches to go to, in the shortest order possible. I know the cache raid macro for GSAK will do a similar thing, but the caches are listed as closest to each other by straight line distance. I got burned by this trying to do some around a body of water a week ago, and a few days ago by railroad tracks with limited crossings. Is there a map program that you can put the POI's into for closest caches, and it will calculate the most efficient route among them by driving?

 

Thanks in advance!

[+sbell111]

.....

That setop looks great if you are going after P&Gs all day, but I wouldn't want to leave it unattended in a remote lot while I hiked along a trail.

I'm glad I live in an area where I don't even have to think about things like that.........Even when I park in town for the day.

I once felt the same way, right up to the point where someone broke into my Jeep parked overnight behind my home in my 'good' neighborhood in my relatively crime-free town.

[+macatac1961]

If you have time before your cache run, go through the caches and check to see if where the cache is, is where you want to park. Most often it isn't but MS&T will try to get you to the closest road. You can create a new waypoint and use that in the route instead of the cache itself. This will make life easier than showing up near the cache and wondering how to get across that river or railroad tracks or whatever might be between the closest road and the cache. This goes for shopping center caches as well as deep woods caches.

[Skippermark]

I have done this too. Sometimes I'll set "parking" coords where they may not really be just to get the GPS to route us the right direction.

 

I don't cache with S&T, but it works the same when using a Nuvi. If the cache is near a road, especially a highway, it just wants you to stop and run from I-95 or something like that.

[+ras_oscar]

For what it's worth: I use a Mio digiwalker. I enter each cache as a POI. Then I build a route, selecting the caches I wish to chase. When the route is complete I select Optimise route to have it reoprder to the shortest driving distance. I assume all GPS units build for road navigation wil do that.

[+Trucker Lee]

I just export to MS S&T, but have found that I can most often beat the optimize option there. Just look at the map and follow the roads.

[+sbell111]

I just export to MS S&T, but have found that I can most often beat the optimize option there. Just look at the map and follow the roads.

I also import them into MS S&T or MapPoint (depending which computer I'm using) and optimize the route. However, I then review the route and tweak it to my desires. For example, these programs get all confused with caches in parks (or shopping centers) and often either take you the wrong way to get into the park or wish to approach the park multiple times from multiple directions to find multiple caches in the park. I also sometimes tweak the order in which I want to cache in different areas. I may wish to get all caches in a nearby area before going to the further away area, rather than getting some coming and the rest returning. This is because I typically identify more caches for my route than I will actually attempt on a specific cache run. Therefore, the ones late on the list are not going to be attempted.

[+markandsandy]

It should. I see Street Atlas as an option in the GSAK drop down menu. But I don't know if SA can optimize routes the way S&T does as I have never used it. S&T is pretty cheap though, about $30 at Sams Club.

 

It doesn't always give you the best route though. It often ignores entrances to parks and suggests that you drive through someone's backyard for a more direct route. It can also be set to minimize left turns; which can really slow down a cache run in a high traffic area.

 

If I have time I'll try optimizing routes with Street Atlas 2008 tonight.

 

I bought SA 2008 with the LT-20 GPSr to use in my truck. The LT-20 stays connected and leaves my Vista free for when I'm out of the truck. Caches loaded from GSAK. It's great when you are driving to a lot of caches.

Finally got a chance to try some things in Street Atlas. I've never tried to have it route between caches before, just for more normal travel. For caching I've usually planned my route manually (if the caches are even on roads).

 

If you enter a Start and Finish for your route, and then select caches as Stops on your route, it automatically creates what it thinks is the optimum route between them, disregarding the order that you actually enter them. Simple click on each cache icon does it.

 

Of course, since these programs are designed for calculating travel on roads, they all have the issues such as routing you to the point nearest the cache for off road caches, so you need to make those corrections yourself, by selecting the parking location/trailhead for those instead of the cache itself. I purposely tried routing to a cache that I know is on a gated logging road, and it routed me directly to the cache. This just points out the necessity of reading the cache page (I know you all do) for recommended parking coordinates.

[+Team Black-Cat]

When I use S&T for routing from cache to cache, I usually set my home coords as the start and END locations before optimizing. It has saved almost an hour on some trips.

Sometimes it seems counter-intuitive to not get the next closest cache on your list, but it minimizes back tracking.

Be sure to use parking coords, or set your own as stated by others.

[vagabond]

I just export to MS S&T, but have found that I can most often beat the optimize option there. Just look at the map and follow the roads.

I also import them into MS S&T or MapPoint (depending which computer I'm using) and optimize the route. However, I then review the route and tweak it to my desires. For example, these programs get all confused with caches in parks (or shopping centers) and often either take you the wrong way to get into the park or wish to approach the park multiple times from multiple directions to find multiple caches in the park. I also sometimes tweak the order in which I want to cache in different areas. I may wish to get all caches in a nearby area before going to the further away area, rather than getting some coming and the rest returning. This is because I typically identify more caches for my route than I will actually attempt on a specific cache run. Therefore, the ones late on the list are not going to be attempted.

 

Like he said

[+FireRef]

It should. I see Street Atlas as an option in the GSAK drop down menu. But I don't know if SA can optimize routes the way S&T does as I have never used it. S&T is pretty cheap though, about $30 at Sams Club.

 

It doesn't always give you the best route though. It often ignores entrances to parks and suggests that you drive through someone's backyard for a more direct route. It can also be set to minimize left turns; which can really slow down a cache run in a high traffic area.

 

If I have time I'll try optimizing routes with Street Atlas 2008 tonight.

 

I bought SA 2008 with the LT-20 GPSr to use in my truck. The LT-20 stays connected and leaves my Vista free for when I'm out of the truck. Caches loaded from GSAK. It's great when you are driving to a lot of caches.

Finally got a chance to try some things in Street Atlas. I've never tried to have it route between caches before, just for more normal travel. For caching I've usually planned my route manually (if the caches are even on roads).

 

If you enter a Start and Finish for your route, and then select caches as Stops on your route, it automatically creates what it thinks is the optimum route between them, disregarding the order that you actually enter them. Simple click on each cache icon does it.

 

Of course, since these programs are designed for calculating travel on roads, they all have the issues such as routing you to the point nearest the cache for off road caches, so you need to make those corrections yourself, by selecting the parking location/trailhead for those instead of the cache itself. I purposely tried routing to a cache that I know is on a gated logging road, and it routed me directly to the cache. This just points out the necessity of reading the cache page (I know you all do) for recommended parking coordinates.

 

Is there a way to batch add the stops? I figured out how to do it one by one, but that can take forever if you're doing a decent sized run...

[+markandsandy]

It should. I see Street Atlas as an option in the GSAK drop down menu. But I don't know if SA can optimize routes the way S&T does as I have never used it. S&T is pretty cheap though, about $30 at Sams Club.

 

It doesn't always give you the best route though. It often ignores entrances to parks and suggests that you drive through someone's backyard for a more direct route. It can also be set to minimize left turns; which can really slow down a cache run in a high traffic area.

 

If I have time I'll try optimizing routes with Street Atlas 2008 tonight.

 

I bought SA 2008 with the LT-20 GPSr to use in my truck. The LT-20 stays connected and leaves my Vista free for when I'm out of the truck. Caches loaded from GSAK. It's great when you are driving to a lot of caches.

Finally got a chance to try some things in Street Atlas. I've never tried to have it route between caches before, just for more normal travel. For caching I've usually planned my route manually (if the caches are even on roads).

 

If you enter a Start and Finish for your route, and then select caches as Stops on your route, it automatically creates what it thinks is the optimum route between them, disregarding the order that you actually enter them. Simple click on each cache icon does it.

 

Of course, since these programs are designed for calculating travel on roads, they all have the issues such as routing you to the point nearest the cache for off road caches, so you need to make those corrections yourself, by selecting the parking location/trailhead for those instead of the cache itself. I purposely tried routing to a cache that I know is on a gated logging road, and it routed me directly to the cache. This just points out the necessity of reading the cache page (I know you all do) for recommended parking coordinates.

 

Is there a way to batch add the stops? I figured out how to do it one by one, but that can take forever if you're doing a decent sized run...

 

According to the manual, you can import a database file (access, excel, text, etc.) and then create your route from it. I'll try tonight by exporting one from GSAK, then importing it into SA and creating a route.

 

Wish I had all the software on my work computer, I'd try it now. But then I'd get even less work done.

[+markandsandy]

It should. I see Street Atlas as an option in the GSAK drop down menu. But I don't know if SA can optimize routes the way S&T does as I have never used it. S&T is pretty cheap though, about $30 at Sams Club.

 

It doesn't always give you the best route though. It often ignores entrances to parks and suggests that you drive through someone's backyard for a more direct route. It can also be set to minimize left turns; which can really slow down a cache run in a high traffic area.

 

If I have time I'll try optimizing routes with Street Atlas 2008 tonight.

 

I bought SA 2008 with the LT-20 GPSr to use in my truck. The LT-20 stays connected and leaves my Vista free for when I'm out of the truck. Caches loaded from GSAK. It's great when you are driving to a lot of caches.

Finally got a chance to try some things in Street Atlas. I've never tried to have it route between caches before, just for more normal travel. For caching I've usually planned my route manually (if the caches are even on roads).

 

If you enter a Start and Finish for your route, and then select caches as Stops on your route, it automatically creates what it thinks is the optimum route between them, disregarding the order that you actually enter them. Simple click on each cache icon does it.

 

Of course, since these programs are designed for calculating travel on roads, they all have the issues such as routing you to the point nearest the cache for off road caches, so you need to make those corrections yourself, by selecting the parking location/trailhead for those instead of the cache itself. I purposely tried routing to a cache that I know is on a gated logging road, and it routed me directly to the cache. This just points out the necessity of reading the cache page (I know you all do) for recommended parking coordinates.

 

Is there a way to batch add the stops? I figured out how to do it one by one, but that can take forever if you're doing a decent sized run...

 

According to the manual, you can import a database file (access, excel, text, etc.) and then create your route from it. I'll try tonight by exporting one from GSAK, then importing it into SA and creating a route.

 

Wish I had all the software on my work computer, I'd try it now. But then I'd get even less work done.

Looks like the feature to create a route from imported data is a feature of Street Atlas Plus, not the standard version so I could not try it.

[vagabond]

I am trying to build a list of caches to go to, in the shortest order possible. I know the cache raid macro for GSAK will do a similar thing, but the caches are listed as closest to each other by straight line distance. I got burned by this trying to do some around a body of water a week ago, and a few days ago by railroad tracks with limited crossings. Is there a map program that you can put the POI's into for closest caches, and it will calculate the most efficient route among them by driving?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

If I'm going on a cache raid/run, I'll download a pq of 100 or so 1.5s or less of the area I'm going to hit, I'll load it in gsak and discard anything that hasen't been found in the last six weeks.

Then export a csv file to msn s&t look it over on s&t and decide which ones to do, then delete the rest. Some times I'll check the ones in gsak that I deleted in s&t then delete the checked ones in gsak, I usually end up with about 50 or 60 caches for the day.

I normally start my run around dawn on sunday mornings I've found this to be the best time of day for me, especially if there are any kiddie parks in the run, I usually quit about 1 or 2 in the afternoon or when ever I'm not enjoying myself anymore

Just remember everyone's different and will have their own way , just pick out what feels best for you

[+FireRef]

I got MSS&T, and am very happy with the way it lays out the route - I see the point of having to make some adjustments, since as usual, it takes you to the street closest to the cache, not necessarily the right place to go, but in general, a good thing.

 

Here's another question - can you export that route, list of stops, etc, in some form that I could pick up in my Colorado or TomTom? I know they have routes, but I don't want to have to build it from the screen or paper printout of the route. Is this possible?

[Skippermark]

Here's another question - can you export that route, list of stops, etc, in some form that I could pick up in my Colorado or TomTom? I know they have routes, but I don't want to have to build it from the screen or paper printout of the route. Is this possible?

I'm not aware of a way to do that.

 

I just print out the route and then when I'm out caching, I just go down the list of stops that MSS&T generated and manually tell the GPS where to go next. Printing out the route can take a lot of paper because it's adding in all the "drive 1/2 mile and turn left on Main St" type directions that most cachers probably don't need. It printed 13 pages for 75 stops on our last trip.

 

If you want to save paper, you can export the list as a webpage and then edit the page to eliminate all the directions. The directions are exported as rows in an HTML table. The 13 pages we ran paired down to just 2 pages with each cache name appearing on it's own line. It's kind of a pain, but it's easier to work with 2 sheets rather than 13.

[+Trucker Lee]

Is there a way to batch add the stops? I figured out how to do it one by one, but that can take forever if you're doing a decent sized run...

From GSAK, I export to MS S&T. then open the map and import the data. Adds a pushpin at each location, info can be had with a right click.

[+FireRef]

Got that figured out - now I want to put it back into another mapping program - such as my TomTom or my colorado as a route (even just as the list of caches as stops in order).

[+Markwell]

Delete all points except those that are on your route. Save the S&T file and use st2gpx to convert it back. It will save the streets and trips file as a GPX with a Route. The route can be uploaded as a Route on your GPS.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Markwell

[+FireRef]

Delete all points except those that are on your route. Save the S&T file and use st2gpx to convert it back. It will save the streets and trips file as a GPX with a Route. The route can be uploaded as a Route on your GPS.

 

Reading the page, it sounds like it only works with MSS&T up to 2004 or so - I have 2009 - will it work?

 

That is, however, exactly what I was looking for... if it works...

[+Markwell]

I have 2005 - getting 2009 for Christmas. Try it and see...