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tsunrisebey

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I suppose I'm lucky to have this "problem" lol but I'll tell ya, I usually end up with a splitting headache after each sale. I'm not necessarily complaining mind you.

 

I've wracked my brain trying to come up with a solution that is best all-round. I can't seem to find a good balance here.

 

So what should a vendor do for crazy-sell out coin sales?

 

One thought but not tried, what about unannounced sales? Just drop it in your lap and say 'they're up for sale' NOW? I doubt this would be popular.

 

Don't ask for presales.... not happening.

 

So let's hear customer ideas.

 

Shopping cart suggestions? I don't mean how to make the cart better because they come packaged the way they are. Although I am currently working on switching web hosts and changing cart systems but have to suffer through what I have installed now.

 

Back to reservations?

 

Should a vendor really have to limit 1 of each version, besides the fact it's not finanically in the best interests for the vendor, it's not in the best interests of all customers either.

 

I think you get my idea here.... this is only for suggestions, perfect geocoin world thoughts....throw your ideas/thoughts/etc. out there to be read.

 

I just want to see what people have to say. I'll be back on later to check out replies.

 

This isn't just for my sales, I know other vendors read and pay attention too.

 

tsun

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Stop trying to please everyone. If you just dump it on the forums than people will be upset because they don't know about the time of the sale. If you go back to email sales, you have the same problems. In your case the only way to stop all the complaining is to make enough coins for everyone so they don't sell out in five minutes.

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Well ya know the earth turtles are going to sell out fast, duh! :D

 

Depends if you want to cater to the those who trade and resell or cater to the general collector. Missed out on these due to being fast asleep (5 hour flight delay), but I am sure there will be a few available for trade.

 

So, do what you want.

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Full disclosure here: I am fortunate to have successfully participated in both offerings of the Dragonfly Talisman coins, so I think the system works well. It protects purchasers by NOT accepting our money for coins not in stock (W-A-Y too much of that going on), as well as the vendor for the same reason.

 

My suggestion: Look at how this second round of coins was distributed. If you have more addresses to send to with this second offering (two versions, <100 coins for each, and a 2-coin limit for each version), then this would indicate a more equitable distribution of coins, meaning more individual parties were able to get them. The first round of DT coins had four versions, 100 of each, but no limit. If those 400 coins went to fewer addresses, then I would say that the 2-coin limit worked because more people benefited.

 

To be statistically accurate, you should really only compare two versions from the first sale with these two newer versions. But my point is that your goal seems to be that more individuals have an opportunity to purchase, not necessarily that the website needs fixing or that more coins need to be made.

 

Soapbox: Disappointment because there aren't enough is unavoidable. No selling system can ensure there are precisely enough coins to meet demand, so the system is not really the problem. Besides, anyone who has been caching and logged a DNF should be somewhat familiar with disappointment. Furthermore, if you're like me and asked for trades only to see the coin go up on ebay, then you have another form of disappointment.

 

Thanks tsun for asking for opinions. This thread demonstrates your sincere concern for your coin fans, who love your designs to the point where we (as a group) drive you nuts! In a time where there seem to be a lot of disappointed coin purchasers, it is soothing to know that not all vendors are created equally. Thanks for setting the bar a bit higher.

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There is no perfect way to do it. If there was someone would have figured it out by now. LOL! You just do the best you can. Though at the times things happen we all vent and are frustrated I think once we calm ourselves down, we know that there is just only so much you can do.

Guessing demand is not easy. Easy for us to tell you what to do.... we don't absorbe the loss!

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I know this won't be a popular answer, but I would like to see reservations come back. I have missed several of your sales, today because they sold out while I was at church, sorry God first. I was sort of surprised the coins where sold out so fast since they weren't the ET's. :unsure:

 

Anyway your sincerity is refreshing, but I hate to see you so worked up over it.

 

Just :) and know that so many people connect and love your designs! ps I don't think you ever have to worry about one of your coins NOT selling :D

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Set a limit to purchase for sure, but more than just one of each version, maybe two. Saw a pretty hefty request during a coin reservation recently, no doubt where the majority were going. That has never seemed right to me, to profit from someones great design. We have so enjoyed yours, thanks! :D

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Please don't set limits. I am not an ebay seller, but I have yet to be home during one of your sales. Usually, I'm at work with no computer access. I can usually find someone to purchase the coin for me, but if you set limits that will be much harder.

 

Reservations would be nice. You know how many to mint, and we get the coins we want! But then the problem is getting people to pay for them when they arrive!

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I'm not a Vendor myself, so my method will probably not work for someone who is trying to balance the books. I just ordered way too many to sell, and will keep the rest to release.

 

To really answer the question though (from one perspective):

 

I saw a sale where a certain percentage were allowed to be reserved, then the rest were opened for sale after arrival? I'm not completely sure of the details, but it was something like that.

 

Here's an idea that could be looked at...

 

250 coins will be minted,

100 will be available for reservation,

after the coins are ready to ship...

25 per day will be available for sale,

with the offer opening at different times each day to allow for people's schedule,

a limit of "X" per person, until "Y" time, when you can come back for seconds if any are left.

 

Oh, I don't know...Just some elements to consider. In the end, I wouldn't be too worried if they are just opened for sale, and some people miss it. Maybe just skip the reservations, and say 50 for sale per day, but open at the different times?

 

Maybe offer a few on Ebay yourself to keep others from doing it? There wouldn't be much sense in someone buying ten to auction if they knew that you would be auctioning 25 of them.

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There is no way you can please everyone because no matter how you do it someone will be disappointed and or frustrated. I would NOT like it to be just dumped on the forums though. I think that would cause you more grief than you have now. Email sales the same thing. The big problem I see is the disappearing coins from the cart issue. I have yet to order from ANY vendor in a frenzied coin sale where several people don't complain about that. Its just a fact of how those carts work (or don't work depending on your opinion.) I also don't want to see a limit of one coin for order. As you said its not a good option for you and as Joni said for those who order for others it doesn't work. A limit but certainly not only one.

 

For this sale I think a few forgot to check those two little disclosure boxes and so couldn't continue.

 

Set a limit to purchase for sure, but more than just one of each version, maybe two. Saw a pretty hefty request during a coin reservation recently, no doubt where the majority were going. That has never seemed right to me, to profit from someones great design. We have so enjoyed yours, thanks! :D

 

Don't automatically assume where those coins are going. For the last Dragonfly talisman sale I ordered for 4 people who couldn't do it themselves. Those 3 others were mighty happy I was able to get them ordered.

Edited by LadyBee4T
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Why not have Reservations? open it up for a week everyone reserves what they want, you order accordingly? the more made the less likely people will buy for ebay but buy for themselves. after being burned a couple times on pre-sales I am very wary as to whom I'll give my money to in advance...

Edited by plumbrokeacres
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The only fix it I can figure out is an increase the amount of coins minted or maybe not so many versions of a coin...just more minting of one or two versions

 

The purchase limit of two is a good idea because of the popularity of your coins. It stops the extreme overbuying by the ebay sellers and allows the collectors to have a go at getting one.

 

I agree that you having to spend a couple thousand dollars on a new cart system is just goofy...it is what is , I missed out on both the 2008 ET and original DT and I'm still alive....no lighting or some such calamity occurred....there is always trading and of course ebay does have it's merits too.

 

You'll never make everyone happy....you can only do the best you can.....the heck with the whiners and enjoy your success

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I think you should do whatever causes you the least amount of stress. If it causes everyone else stress, it's not your problem. You'll never please everyone, that's just how it goes.

 

Reservations could work since your coins ALWAYS sell out. So even if someone who made a reservation doesn't pay, I'm sure you'll have a huge waiting list to sell those extras to.

 

Disclosure: I didn't buy any DT coins this morning, nor did I try as I was soundly asleep. =)

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sell them on ebay only.

 

well, it is a thought.

 

limit to 1 of each. when folks buy more it is for trading or resale.

 

one per means the folks that want them have a better shot at getting them. if someone needs someone else to buy for them, they can choose someone who is not buying for themselves.

 

if the limit today was one per person, then about 50 more people could have bought the johnny cash coin, 100 folks could have the coin instead of 50.

 

i know you are planning different cart system. check out the way castleman's works. i have never been skunked on sales from there. i don't know how those things work, but it seems to me that a good automated system shifts a coin from available to sold as soon as it is plopped into a cart.

 

try a different day/time.

 

yep, in a perfect world. i did like the reservation way you did the last group of earth turtles.

 

rsg

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limit to 1 of each. when folks buy more it is for trading or resale.

 

 

This is not true. I had to work when the last ones went on sale. Someone was kind enough to purchase for me. I traded none of them, nor did I ebay them. As far as I know, the person who purchased them for me didn't trade or ebay them either. Although neither activity is a crime, as far as I know?

 

Also, keep in mind some households, like mine, have two collectors in the same house. There are also times that I like to buy coins as gifts or prizes for events. I wish I could describe the reaction of the 9 year old girl who won an earth turtle at our 888 event. It was golden. That wouldn't have happened had I only been able to purchase one.

 

This community was built on trading. Back then, it seemed like all coin sales went like this one. So people bought the more than they needed and were then able to trade for the ones they missed out on. I already see trades going on for this coin. I hate to see sales that discourage what this community was started on!

 

Edited for spelling!

Edited by MustangJoni
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It's really nice that you have come in here to ask for suggestions. I can't offer any other than you should do what is best for you at the end of the day. Folk are always going to be disappointed, it's a fact of life. I had a moan myself in the past when I failed to get any Earth Turtles, but I'm a whole lot more relaxed about the coin thing now. One day I'll get to trade for one, or maybe not. For me it is enough to know that you care. I rather enjoyed the excitement and anticipation of the sale, I always thought I was pretty nifty at the keyboard and had everything set to go bang on time and ticked all the right boxes but I still could not get past the checkout to pay. My only suggestions are:- don't lose any sleep over it, don't go spending big bucks on a different cart/shopping site - you will probably solve some problems whilst creating new ones!, keep on designing brilliant coins and making them available for sale at a time and in a way that suits you. For those that don't get what they want and moan about it, tough. We can't always have what we want in life, but if we can get Tsunrisebey designed coin - then that's a bonus, not a priviledge.

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limit to 1 of each. when folks buy more it is for trading or resale.

 

 

This is not true. I had to work when the last ones went on sale. Someone was kind enough to purchase for me. I traded none of them, nor did I ebay them. As far as I know, the person who purchased them for me didn't trade or ebay them either. Although neither activity is a crime, as far as I know?

 

Also, keep in mind some households, like mine, have two collectors in the same house. There are also times that I like to buy coins as gifts or prizes for events. I wish I could describe the reaction of the 9 year old girl who one an earth turtle at our 888 event. It was golden. That wouldn't have happened had I only been able to purchase one.

 

This community was built on trading. Back then, it seemed like all coin sales went like this one. So people bought the more than they needed and were then able to trade for the ones they missed out on. I already see trades going on for this coin. I hate to see sales that discourage what this community was started on!

 

ok, yes you are right. like i said before, just thoughts!

 

rsg

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I do agree with rsg that the system should remove the coins from stock as soon as they are placed in a shopping cart. I did have 1 coin dumped on the first order I ever placed with Castleman, so I am not sure that his shopping cart program prevents this problem completely.

 

I also think having a limit on coins may help but I think that the limit of 1 is unreasonable. I have ordered coins for a couple of other people in the past when they were unable to order them for themselves.

 

Maybe the coins should be released in several batches over a 24 hour period. That will also help those in other time zones.

 

In the end you should do what you feel is necessary and makes you happy. I had all 4 of my coins dumped this morning, but in the end they are only a little piece of metal :D

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limit to 1 of each. when folks buy more it is for trading or resale.

 

one per means the folks that want them have a better shot at getting them. if someone needs someone else to buy for them, they can choose someone who is not buying for themselves.

 

if the limit today was one per person, then about 50 more people could have bought the johnny cash coin, 100 folks could have the coin instead of 50.

 

rsg

 

Shouldn't be a problem if someone buys an extra or two for trading or resale even. Trading was the norm when I first started here. Some got them and some didn't and found a trade. Trading for me is a lot of fun--the hunt to find what you want!

 

If there are 100 coins and there is a limit of 2, in the end 100 different people will still have one because of the trading or resale.

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Okay this pertains to your coins pretty much, definitely not meant as a gripe. Well I have been unfortunate in being able to actually obtain any of your designs V1 ( maybe the first ET) and the remint of V2 of the 2008 ET (which was a reservation I think...which I liked) through the actual initial sale.

 

I like reservations, maybe put them at a max of 2 a piece per order(one for me one to trade), then order some overhead...for those that miss the reservation or like the insanity of trying and bragging about getting them before they are sold out.... :) ... or for those that just want more. This limits your profit as well.... :ph34r: but it might help with that coin sale hangover. But give me a break your designs have all sold out no? So if a few back out on the reservations so be it, that and the overhead will be gone mighty quickly- heck put them on ebay and make a killing before someone else does. OR don't put a number on the reservations and shut it down completely after your reservation period, and use those might not pay as your overhead. I don't know how many times I might have posted if someone backs out I will take their order.

 

I am thinking by now after so many designs you have an idea of what your customer base is and the amount of coins needed to satisify them if that is what you are attempting to do. From the last couple of designs have you seen a drop off in orders.

 

I would like to see less remints in different versions(from all companies) it creates the same craze and I don't think it solves the problem of those who missed V1 being able to obtain the highly coveted.(this just creates another craze of not getting something I NEED in a different flavor :rolleyes: ) i did obtain some 2008 ETV2 - but I think that was a reservation. But as a vendor of a really good design ( of which yours are top notch- and fetch good trades) you don't want limit that $$$ avenue.

 

If your are to remint keep it the same color but indicate that in the original post so people aren't upset that their 20 coins they just ordered were from a mint of 250, now just became a mint of 500, thus the value went through the floor...grr... their goes my mini investment.

 

OR just order a standard amount and tough crap for those that aren't quick on the trigger....

 

Your coins seem to be my only problem obtaining, this and FSM so I don't mind I have made some nice trades to acquire the ET and DT..or at least this much drama....

 

I am bummed about missing the newest DT as well, but I have already had a couple of offers so I will be able to get them after all....And that is what this is about after all right trading.... Now if I could just get that darn Black and Gold one.... :D

 

I think from you, people expect miracles.... :rolleyes: You can't please everyone so do as you please this is your company and as you see, people still keep coming back for more...Anyone with a brain can see you are trying/attempting to appease your faithful cult following....LOL so kudos to you...You don't see others blowing up when other vendors don't have enough....or maybe you could seek those vendors out and find out their recipe....

 

SCB

 

Oh yeah and maybe fix that cart thing...I would be plenty p*ssed if I was actually able to get some in the cart :D and they disappeared :unsure: .....such a gosh darn tease....I tell ya!!!! I am like a little kid in a candy store so when it is snatched from my hand and I am told I can't have it I run hear screaming and crying I didn't get what I wanted.

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Two Words:

 

Open Minting

 

Two more words:

 

Free Market

 

As a vendor, your goal is really simple - make money by providing your customers with the products they want and are willing to purchase.

 

I've long complained (in the constructive use of the word) that one of the problems with coin theft and lack of coins in caches is due to scarcity and demand. This increases value on the secondary market and perceived value to the thieves. Open minting will decrease this theft and allow most people that want a coin to get one.

 

It also has the added benefit of allowing people to budget for coins they want and not "panic" to get some when they come out. It would also allow better designs to be rewarded by long-term sales. Maybe even paying for larger up-front costs in the design phase.

 

So.

 

Mint 100/200/300 of a coin (based upon your market projections).

Offer it for sale.

When it is sold out, mint more and let folks decide to reserve or not.

Repeat.

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and another thing....lol

 

if we go in during one of your sales and start putting 50 or 60 in the cart just out of curiosity to see how many are left couldn't this be what is causing the cart issue to keep varying on what is actually there??

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Oh - for an example of this in action.

 

I buy "geek" T-Shirts off a site called jinx.com

They have a little bar showing the number of each shirt in each size available. If a shirt "sells out", they let you enter an e-mail address and you get an e-mail when they print more. This is cool. There was a shirt I wanted and I entered my e-mail. A short while later, the e-mail arrived, I ordered, and now I'm all "geek chic"

 

This would be awesome with geocoins.

 

Oh. The folks that buy to resell on eBay will hate you :rolleyes:

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I vote for making enough so that everybody gets a chance to get what they want

CRAKE has been doing this for years, and I have yet to hear a complaint

 

it seems to me that everybody benefits from this

customers are happy, since they get the coins that they want

vendors are happy because they sell more coins

 

make a given number - if they sell out quickly, make more

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I have to admit that I didn't read the whole thread, but here is what I have in mind about your sales.

 

It's great that your designs are loved by everybody and therefore lots of people want to have the coins. So the demand will be higher than your stock. Limiting the amount to 2 per person is great for me. That gives more people the chance to get a coin and still allows for trading. Which is part of the fun! :rolleyes:

 

I like the way you handle your sales (besides cart issues that you already discussed). Not everyone will be able to get a coin, but as long as you limit the total number that will be the case. Maybe you can increase the number of coins minted a little. If you have a cart system that automaticaly prevents people from buying coins as soon as they are gone you could put portions of the total stock for sale at different times, so more people could have a chance to buy them.

 

So in my eyes you should just continue designing that great coins and selling them the way you do right now.

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I just read through this thread again, and I noticed a couple of things -

 

1. there are a lot of people who were not able to get some or all of your coins from you

 

2. very few of these people mentioned that the got them later, via eBay or trades

 

I read this to mean that you have lost sales to these people

you did not get a coin to them via a bulk sale to someone else

they did not get a coin at all

 

making more appears to be the best solution, in my opinion

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How about a lottery for the option to purchase, and then if any are left over or unclaimed/paid within a week or so, they can be sold first come first served. It is difficult to have to miss out because you do not have access at the designated time, or even worse yet, be trying to place an order and not be able to due to rapid sell out or program glitches.

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Depends what you want out of it all.

If you want to sell all your coins and make money keep on doing what your doing now . It's up to us to sit up all night and try to get coins when the auction starts . If you mint(for example) 250 and 10 people buy 25 each thats a result for you and those who didn't get have to beg trade or fleabay for them if we want one .

 

Heres an idea take it kick it around and see what you think -

You have 40 coins to sell . Announce them here and ask for orders . Thread to remain open for 7 days so everyone gets a chance to order what they want.

As the replies come in make a spreadsheet up 1- 100 across the top and names down the side.

first is "Jim" who wants 10 coins then "Joe"wants 5 "John " wants 10 and finally"Jack" wants 5 another 15 buyers want 2 coins each. You could sell 60 coins if you had them but you only have 40 how do you split them up fairly?

 

File0001.jpg

 

Everybody gets their first coin thats 19 gone 40-19=21 left

Everyone gets their second coin thats another 19 gone 21-19=3 left

Jim,Joe and John get a third coin and thats it no more coins . Not everyone got as many as they wanted but everyone got something and the coins are in the hands of many rather than a few . If there is a demand then do a remint with those who did not get all their coins first time round offerd first chance before everyone else.It's never going to please everyone - you can't do that but it gives more people a chance of getting a coin.

What do you think? - it's only an idea

Edited by Beefy4605
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Depends what you want out of it all.

If you want to sell all your coins and make money keep on doing what your doing now . It's up to us to sit up all night and try to get coins when the auction starts . If you mint(for example) 250 and 10 people buy 25 each thats a result for you and those who didn't get have to beg trade or fleabay for them if we want one .

 

Heres an idea take it kick it around and see what you think -

You have 40 coins to sell . Announce them here and ask for orders . Thread to remain open for 7 days so everyone gets a chance to order what they want.

As the replies come in make a spreadsheet up 1- 100 across the top and names down the side.

first is "Jim" who wants 10 coins then "Joe"wants 5 "John " wants 5 and finally"Jack" wants 10 another 15 buyers want 2 coins each. You could sell 60 coins if you had them but you only have 40 how do you split them up fairly?

 

File0001.jpg

 

Everybody gets their first coin thats 19 gone 40-19=21 left

Everyone gets their second coin thats another 19 gone 21-19=3 left

Jim,Joe and John get a third coin and thats it no more coins . Not everyone got as many as they wanted but everyone got something and the coins are in the hands of many rather than a few . If there is a demand then do a remint with those who did not get all their coins first time round offerd first chance before everyone else.It's never going to please everyone - you can't do that but it gives more people a chance of getting a coin.

What do you think? - it's only an idea

 

That sounds like a lot of work, but seems to be a great idea!

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I agree with lemon fresh dog mint, sell, mint some more sell some more keep the same colors supply the demand I buy coins because they mean something to me not for resale I ended up getting a couple earth turtles on ebay that's 2 coins I bought from someone else that took profits from your pockets.

by doing it it that way the people who want the coins get the coins the only ones that loose are the ebay sellers. my 2 cents worth.

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You could sell 60 coins if you had them but you only have 40 how do you split them up fairly?

here is where I am getting lost

if you know in advance that there is demand for 60 coins, why not just MAKE 60 coins

all of your customers will then be completely happy

and you just sold 20 more coins

I am at a loss to see any downside to this

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