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Drilling holes in rocks?


The Broylers

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Anyone know the best way to drill a hole in a rock so that a bison tube or file cannister can be placed inside to create a cache? Also, what would be the best way to affix the bison/ cannister to the inside of the rock? There are no rock caches in our area that I'm aware of, so I thought it would be good to place a few.

Thanks.

 

The Broylers

 

A local cacher in the Detroit area took a rock to a shop that makes granite countertops. They drilled the hole for him, I think, for about $20.

 

Cache Safe!

Grigorii Rasputin

http://www.glass-cockpit.org

http://grigoriirasputin.wordpress.com

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"... I know many caches that are in dynamite drill holes in some rockface somewhere.

 

Waypoints, please?

~*

 

Safe1 has made this kind of cache their trademark. Have a look at their cache page.

 

Safe1 Caches

 

They're really common out here in mining country. Why they remain after the blast, I don't know - they must drill those suckers pretty deep! Fire in the hole! ;)

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The OP never made that clear.

I saw his need to drill a hole as a need to drill a hole into an existing spot somewhere in the wilderness, not a lame rock of his own.

 

In the one case my post stands, in the other it doesn't, make up your own minds.

 

P.S. Existing holes in existing rocks are OK, and I know many caches that are in dynamite drill holes in some rockface somewhere.

 

so next time, instead of doing your initial reply as "I just sent your reviewer a PM to ban your cache", try this:

 

"I hope your not planning to drill into fixed rocks/rockbeds, that would probably be against the rules, similar to digging holes/nailing into trees. If your just drilling into portable" rocks you bring onto the site, that's probably OK"

 

It's much less donkey like.

 

Don't be a donkey.

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The OP never made that clear.

I saw his need to drill a hole as a need to drill a hole into an existing spot somewhere in the wilderness, not a lame rock of his own.

 

In the one case my post stands, in the other it doesn't, make up your own minds.

 

P.S. Existing holes in existing rocks are OK, and I know many caches that are in dynamite drill holes in some rockface somewhere.

 

so next time, instead of doing your initial reply as "I just sent your reviewer a PM to ban your cache", try this:

 

"I hope your not planning to drill into fixed rocks/rockbeds, that would probably be against the rules, similar to digging holes/nailing into trees. If your just drilling into portable" rocks you bring onto the site, that's probably OK"

 

It's much less donkey like.

 

Don't be a donkey.

So you're saying drilling into a Donkey is OK? I don't even want to know.

 

Poor Donkey.

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Everybody knows that drilling a hole in a rock will KILL that rock! People... DO NOT DO THIS!!

 

I hear you can get around hurting the rock by attaching your cache to a wire hanging around the rock, but only if you get permission. Oh, and make sure the wire isn't made of copper. And for God's sake, do NOT walk on the grass to get to the rock.

Edited by bflentje
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Everybody knows that drilling a hole in a rock will KILL that rock! People... DO NOT DO THIS!!

 

I hear you can get around hurting the rock by attaching your cache to a wire hanging around the rock, but only if you get permission. Oh, and make sure the wire isn't made of copper. And for God's sake, do NOT walk on the grass to get to the rock.

 

The problem with this is someone may try to steal the copper wire to sell. Use string which does not have a high resale value. :)

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Anyone know the best way to drill a hole in a rock so that a bison tube or file cannister can be placed inside to create a cache? Also, what would be the best way to affix the bison/ cannister to the inside of the rock? There are no rock caches in our area that I'm aware of, so I thought it would be good to place a few.

Thanks.

 

The Broylers

 

I've tried using a regular drill with a masonry bit, but the best luck I've had was with a drill press and a masonry bit.

 

Try a hammerdrill next time. I'll lke a hot knive thru butter. ;)

 

I wish there was a battery powered hammerdrill portable enough to get into the back country. I would disappear for hours and come back with big smile on my face.

[/quote

 

all the major drill manufacturer's make a portable 18v drill that has a hammerdrill feature. rigid is usually the best priced and most reliable - you can rent one @ home depot if you don't want to drop the $200 or so for a new one. they won't work as fast as a plug in version, but chances are you'd break the rock with a plug in. you can get hammerdrill bits as big as 2" but the bigger the bit the longer it'll take. keep in mind that going slower means less rocks splitting - hammerdrilling is traumatic to anything; it's a spinning and pulsing steel bit designed to pulverise rock. Just take it slow and choose a rock much bigger than the hole to be drilled.

 

and my fav glue; pl premium. gnarly stuff that if you get it on your skin, your skin has to die and flake off b4 the glue will come off. you can get it anywhere.

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Huldufólk, or Hidden People, are a part of Icelandic folklore. Building projects in Iceland are sometimes altered to prevent damaging the rocks where they are believed to live. They are also a part of folklore in the Faroe Islands.

Source: Wikipedia

 

Huldufolk 102

 

I live in the Faroe Islands, and I know that there are stones that they believe those "Hidden People" live in.

I hope that the rock I took home, and drilled a hole in, is "empty"

Edited by okvalle
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I believe that you can drill into your own tree. :rolleyes:

 

You believe incorrectly.

 

Care to share a link that might support that opinion?

 

Don't need a link. It's your tree, you can do what you wish. You can even cut it down and chop it up.

 

I find it hilarious that the google ads at the top of this thread is for diamond core drills.

 

Jim

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I would say that this is not allowed.

 

If the rules state that if you used a shovel to dig a hole then it will not get published. I'd think that drilling a hole is just like that.

 

A PM has been sent to the reviewer of your state to be on the lookout for this violation.

 

Feel free to drill holes in the chunks of coal you probably got in your Christmas Stocking. But get Dr. Seuss' permission first.

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If I drill a hole in a rock for an unrelated reason, like... because I just really like drilling... (har har har) can I still put a cache there?

Or what if I turn into a werewolf and make a hole in a tree with WEREWOLF RAGE? After I return to my human state, I can like, totally hide something there, right?

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If I drill a hole in a rock for an unrelated reason, like... because I just really like drilling... (har har har) can I still put a cache there?

Or what if I turn into a werewolf and make a hole in a tree with WEREWOLF RAGE? After I return to my human state, I can like, totally hide something there, right?

 

That would be totally ok. You can't control yourself when your a werewolf.

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I believe that you can drill into your own tree. :rolleyes:

 

You believe incorrectly.

 

Care to share a link that might support that opinion?

 

Don't need a link. It's your tree, you can do what you wish. You can even cut it down and chop it up.

 

That's how I feel as well. I was looking for some actual indication that the opposite was true from benh57- that at some point somebody has been told they couldn't drill a hole in their own tree and put a cache in it.

 

For the record I don't support the random drilling of living trees for cache hidey holes.

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Anyone know the best way to drill a hole in a rock so that a bison tube or file cannister can be placed inside to create a cache? Also, what would be the best way to affix the bison/ cannister to the inside of the rock? There are no rock caches in our area that I'm aware of, so I thought it would be good to place a few.

Thanks.

 

The Broylers

 

A local cacher in the Detroit area took a rock to a shop that makes granite countertops. They drilled the hole for him, I think, for about $20.

 

Cache Safe!

Grigorii Rasputin

http://www.glass-cockpit.org

http://grigoriirasputin.wordpress.com

 

So if I hired a professional contractor to do the digging for me I can get around that pesky no buried caches guideline. What I am suggesting is equivalent to what that cacher local to you did, right?

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Funny that for years rock climbers have been banging thousands of pitons and drilling thousands of bolt holes in the cliffs in places like Yosemite and Zion. In Acadia, the FS drilled holes and placed stainless steel anchors for climbers at places like Otter Cliff (admittedly, to protect the trees from damage).

 

But, let a cacher drill a hole in the bottom of a rock he picked up....

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Funny that for years rock climbers have been banging thousands of pitons and drilling thousands of bolt holes in the cliffs in places like Yosemite and Zion. In Acadia, the FS drilled holes and placed stainless steel anchors for climbers at places like Otter Cliff (admittedly, to protect the trees from damage).

 

But, let a cacher drill a hole in the bottom of a rock he picked up....

 

Drill the hole. Walk on the grass. Pound the nail in the tree. The world's coming to an end.

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I used a masonry bit as well making the hole just the right size so that the bison tube didn't fall out but could be completely removed. I use a short fishing tackle leader attached to the tube lid with the other end epoxied to the rock. I drilled a small hole for that end to put the cable in with the epoxy so it would hold. It's held together great so far. See "Roll in Rock" GC1B1KB. Sorry no picture, I didn't want to spoil it.

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I would say that this is not allowed.

 

If the rules state that if you used a shovel to dig a hole then it will not get published. I'd think that drilling a hole is just like that.

 

A PM has been sent to the reviewer of your state to be on the lookout for this violation.

 

:blink:

 

LMAO!!! When I saw the title of this thread I just KNEW that it would have a post like this one in it. What a putz. Next they'll say, "if the rules (they are actually GUIDELINES) state that you can't use a shovel, then obviously you can't PAINT that ammo can". I suppose that the log that I cut up from MY OWN PROPERTY and took out to the site where I placed my cache is illegal because I used a Chainsaw, Drill, and Chisels to shape a cavity in it for the cache container to fit into? Does it matter if I DRILL into a log or a rock in building a cache? Did you know that they use a DRILL when manufacturing aluminum bison tubes? We better ban those too. No DRILLING into stuff folks, cause that's that same as using a shovel!

 

[/soapbox]

 

Yes, although I did spot somewhere on a forum thread from a reviewer, it did say that reviewers do make exceptions. They are not perfect, although they do try to do a good job. It is expected that in a chosen year there are going to be too many caches that are too close to railroad tracks, or too many caches that are on church property, or thrown into bushes, or are in cemetaries, etc. The job of the reviewer is not to police everyones mistakes with caching, it is merely to make sure that the problem does not get out of hand. It is up to cache owner and their fellow cachers to report any problems that occur. Now that does not mean that you can't go drill a rock or something. Here is what it says concerning this:

 

Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines

Guidelines last updated May 7, 2008.

 

These are listing guidelines only. Before a cache is published on the website, a volunteer will review the page for inaccuracies, bad coordinates, and compliance with these guidelines. The physical cache site is not verified. As the cache owner, you are responsible for the placement and care of your cache.

 

Prior to placing and submitting a cache you are expected to review the following guidelines. In order to post a new cache and submit it for review you must indicate that you have read the guidelines as required. Geocaching is a constantly changing and evolving sport, and as a result these guidelines are subject to change as the sport progresses. Please refer back to these guidelines prior to cache placement to ensure that no changes have been implemented that would adversely affect your planned cache placement.

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache. If a cache has been published and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the cache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated the cache is likely to be "grandfathered" and allowed to stand as is.

 

If you believe that your cache may be questionable, you are encouraged to add a note to the cache page. For example, you could add an explanation in the "notes to reviewer" section such as: "The train tracks running through this park are inactive and have been converted to a rails-to-trails path." The reviewer will read the note and take the information into consideration. Rest assured that notes to reviewers will be removed before the caches are published. Most caches that are temporarily put on hold or archived are done so due to a lack of information. Having all the relevant information up front during the review process will help ensure a speedy listing.

 

If your cache has been placed on hold, temporarily disabled or archived...

 

First please read the reviewer notes for an explanation. It is a common practice for the reviewers to place a cache on hold while they obtain additional details required for it to be published. A reviewer may temporarily disable a submission to provide time for the cache owner to make necessary changes to the cache placement or cache description. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it won’t be published. In order to ensure a prompt response when responding to a reviewer, please follow the contact instructions given by the reviewer in their note. If no other instructions are provided, click on the volunteer reviewer’s profile from the cache page and e-mail the reviewer through Geocaching.com. If you reply directly to the automated cache notification address, most likely you will not receive a reply.

 

Exceptions may sometimes be made, depending on the nature of a cache. If you have a novel type of cache that "pushes the envelope" to some degree, then it is best to contact your local reviewer and/or Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site. The guidelines should address most situations, but Groundspeak administrators and reviewers are always interested in new ideas. If, after exchanging emails with the reviewer, you still feel your cache has been misjudged, your next option is to ask the volunteer to post the cache for all of the reviewers to see in their private discussion forum. Sometimes a second opinion from someone else who has seen a similar situation can help in suggesting a way for the cache to be published. Next, you should feel free to post a message in the "Geocaching Topics" section of the Groundspeak Forums to see what the geocaching community thinks. If the majority believes that it should be published, then Groundspeak administrators and volunteers may review the submission and your cache may be published(or unarchived).

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

 

Caches on land managed by an agency that prohibits geocaches, such as the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges).

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a hiding place, a clue or a logging method.

Caches placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites).

Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft (46 m) but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.

Caches near or on military installations.

Caches near, on or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These may include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports.

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.

 

In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.). There are many local caching organizations that would be able to help you out with those regulations. If your area does not have a local caching organization please contact your local reviewer for information on regulations. If you have complied with special regulations by obtaining a permit, please state this on your cache page or in a 'note to the reviewer'. A reviewer may request that you provide contact information for the person who gave you permission to hide your cache.

 

If the Geocaching.com web site is contacted and informed that your cache has been placed inappropriately, your cache may be archived or disabled and you may be contacted with any information provided by the individual or organization who contacted us. (But that is up to the REVIEWERS AND ADMINASTRATORS, not the cachers(except for the current owner themselves) to decide.) Notice it says it may be disabled or archived, not it will. Exceptions are made sometimes.

 

Guidelines that Apply to all Cache Types

For all physical caches and waypoints, think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public. For example, a cache hidden in full view of office or apartment building windows exposes a geocacher to being seen by someone who may think the cache search looks suspicious. Your cache may be hidden on public property, but there may be concerned residents on the other side of that property line. And, while an ammo box or PVC pipe may be a great container if hidden deep in the woods, it may cause alarm if discovered in an urban setting. A clear plastic container or a microcache may be a better choice. In busy areas, avoid containers that look suspicious, including attachment materials like wires or tape. To reduce confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label your container on the outside with appropriate information to say it is a geocache. Cover over any military markings with paint or a geocache sticker. Include an explanatory "stash note" inside your cache. Common sense in selecting hiding spots and containers can reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those who are unaware of our sport.

 

You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.

 

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

 

For all caches that include multiple waypoints please report all the additional coordinates using the "Additional Waypoints" feature. If you don't want a set of coordinates displayed on your cache page, be sure to mark them as "hidden". Doing this will hide the coordinates from view by anyone except the owner and website volunteers.

 

In the interest of file security, caches that require the downloading, installing or running of data and/or executables may not be published.

 

Caches that require a geocacher to visit another website will not be published if the finder must create an account with, or provide personal information to, the other website.

 

If you are placing a large number of caches to be published on the same date (for example, on the day of an event cache), please submit the cache pages for all of the caches at least ten days in advance of the release date. Leave a "note to reviewer" indicating that the cache is to be released on the date specified. This allows your reviewer adequate time to review the submissions or to arrange for help from another reviewer. (Note: Caches placed in connection with an event must be placed with the intention of leaving them in place after the event, temporary caches are not accepted.)

 

Your cache should be in place and ready to hunt at the time your cache page is submitted for review. If for any reason it is not ready, please either disable your cache page so that it won’t be seen by the reviewer until ready, or include a "note to reviewer" to explain your special circumstances (for example, waiting for a permit from a land manager).

 

At times a cache may meet the listing requirements for the site but the reviewers, as experienced cachers, may see additional concerns that you as a cache placer may not have noticed. As a courtesy, the reviewer may bring additional concerns about cache placement to your attention and offer suggestions before posting. But as the cache owner you are responsible for placement and care of your cache. Note: Exceptions to the listing guidelines may occasionally be made depending on the novel nature and merits of a cache. If you have a cache idea you believe is novel, contact Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site.

(Nut once again, it ultimately up to the REVIEWERS AND ADMINISTRATORS TO DECIDE if it should be disabled, archived, or if changes should be made to it for some reason.)

 

Here is some other stuff for you read.

 

Cache Maintenance

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive or transfer the listing.

 

It may be difficult to fulfill your maintenance obligations if you place a cache while traveling on vacation or otherwise outside of your normal caching area. These caches may not be published unless you are able to demonstrate an acceptable maintenance plan. It is not uncommon for caches to go missing, areas to be cleared, trails to be blocked or closed, objects used for multi-cache or puzzles to be moved or removed, etc. Your maintenance plan must allow for a quick response to reported problems.

 

The territory in which a geocacher is able to maintain caches responsibly will vary from one person to the next. An active geocacher who regularly visits areas hundreds of miles apart can demonstrate their ability to maintain a cache 100 miles from home. A geocacher whose previous finds and hides are all within 25 miles of their home would likely not see their cache published if placed 250 miles away from their home.

 

If you have special circumstances, please describe your maintenance plan on your cache page. For example, if you have made arrangements with a local geocacher to watch over your distant cache for you, that geocacher’s name should be mentioned on your cache page.

 

Cache Permanence

When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there.

 

We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life.

 

Cache Saturation

The reviewers use a rule of thumb that caches placed within .10 miles (528 feet or 161 metres) of another cache may not be published on the site. This is an arbitrary distance and is just a guideline, but the ultimate goal is to reduce the number of caches hidden in a particular area and to reduce confusion that might otherwise result when one cache is found while looking for another. On the same note, don't go cache crazy and hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can. If you want to create a series of caches (sometimes called a "Power Trail"), the reviewer may require you to create a multi-cache, if the waypoints are close together. A series of caches that are generally intended to be found as a group are good candidates for submission as a single multicache.

 

The cache saturation guideline applies to all physical stages of multicaches and mystery/puzzle caches, as well as any other stages entered as "stages of a multicache." The guideline does NOT apply to event caches, earthcaches, grandfathered virtual and webcam caches, stages of multicaches or puzzle caches entered as "question to answer" or "reference point," or to any "bogus" posted coordinates for a puzzle cache. Within a single multicache or mystery/puzzle cache, there is no minimum required distance between waypoints.

 

Cache Contents

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache. As always respect the local laws. Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because food items (or items that smell like food) are in the cache. Even the presence of mint flavored dental floss has led to destruction of one cache.

 

If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled.

 

Caches that Solicit

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Commercial Caches

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Additionally, links to businesses, commercial advertisers, charities, political or social agendas, or the inclusion of their associated logos are not permitted on cache descriptions without prior permission from Groundspeak.

 

Grandfathered Cache Types

Cache types that are listed below are no longer available as options for new listings on Geocaching.com. Cache descriptions and maintenance guidelines are listed below. Grandfathered caches that are not maintained may be archived.

 

Not to worry, there is a separate website provided by Groundspeak Inc. dedicated to marking these unique locations. Please visit Waymarking.com for details.

 

I hope that this clears some stuff up. If you wish to drill into something, or dig, I will for one, say, "Go for it!", unless it is something that obviously looks like something associated with bombs, or politics or some leaders we have had. I hope you have fun from now, just be a little more careful, and be safe. Thanks and have a great day. gwf :(:anitongue::):anitongue:B):anibad:

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I found a rock in my backyard that just fell out of the sky! I think it came from my home planet, I have blanket permission to drill into any rock from there. This thread has been one of the most entertaining in a while. Someone I am sure will say "what do you mean entertaining!". Good fun, Rock On!! :blink:

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