Night Caches

[+SSO JOAT]

So, the firetacks are on their way and I've got my plans sketched out for a night cache trail. And just to make sure we are all on the same terminology, by night cache I mean you go to the published coords at night and use a flashlight to locate a trail that is marked with reflective tacks. You go from reflective marker to marker until you get to the end of the trail and find the cache container.

 

So, I have naturally been reviewing the cache listings of other night caches to see how other have written them up. First thing I notice is that some are listed as Multis and others as Puzzles. In my mind, a night cache trail is a Multi cache because you are starting at the published waypoint and going from point to point until you reach the cache. At each point, you get the info needed for the next point (using your flashlight to locate the next reflector). I realize that the Puzzle is a "catch all" category, but it just seems Multi is a better fit. Thoughts?

 

Now, the next question is about the markers that are placed along the trail. In a true Multi cache, I would record a waypoint at each spot and make a hidden waypoint in the cache listing for every one of them. I've had a couple folks tell me that when they put out a night cache trail they only enter the start position (published) and then the final cache location (hidden final). They don't enter waypoints for each marker along the way. But it seems to me that most, if not all, of these reflectors you put out should be marked and entered into the cache listing as hidden waypoints. Thoughts on this?

[+Prime Suspect]

Reflectors alone are exempt from the usual proximity rules. They don't need waypoints. IMO, night caches should be considered Mystery. It ensures that people will read the cache page first.

 

Also, make sure your cache meets the "GPS required" guideline. The best design is when the first reflector is only visible from a certain spot, or along a specific line. If the reflector is obvious from the parking lot, and can be followed from there, you'll have a hard time demonstrating that there is any real GPS usage involved.

[+BigFurryMonster]

A night cache can be anything from a Multi to a Puzzle, or even a Traditional or Letterbox. There's also night events.

 

The normal rules for determining cache types apply.

 

If you'd go from point to point, that's typically a multi, but if you need to solve puzzles before you set out, that may be a puzzle.

 

Note that, as Prime Suspects states, you will need to have the cacher make use of his GPS.

Also be sure to fill the 'flashlight required' attribute, and make it clear on the cache page that it is supposed to be done by night.

[+PJPeters]

From the cache listing guidelines:

Multi-Caches

 

There are many variations to multi-stage caches. The most common is that in which the first container or waypoint contains or provides coordinates to the next location. Another popular variant is a series of multiple waypoints, each of which provide partial coordinates for the final cache’s position. Please provide the coordinates of all stages of the multicache. The posted coordinates are for the first stage. Use the "Additional Waypoints" feature when submitting the multi-cache coordinates for the other stages. If you don't want the coordinates for the rest of the stages displayed, be sure to mark them as "hidden". Doing this will hide the coordinates from view by anyone except the owner and website volunteers.

 

Offset caches are a variation on multi-caches. They are listed as a multi-cache when selecting a cache type. They are not found by simply going to some coordinates and finding a cache there. With the offset cache the published coordinates could be of an existing historical monument, plaque, or even a benchmark that you would like to have your cache hunter visit. At this spot, the hunter looks for numbers or information already appearing on the marker or on some part of the marker or site (geocachers NEVER deface public or private property). The geocacher is then able to manipulate these numbers or information using instructions posted on the cache page to continue the hunt.

This would tell me that a cache that doesn't require the use of a GPS to find each stage would be a multi-cache; i.e. night cache. You only need a GPS to find the first 'stage,' or the spot you find the fire-tack. I see a multi cache as a series of points that give you coords to the next stage, that you have to plug into the GPS.

[Clan Riffster]

But it seems to me that most, if not all, of these reflectors you put out should be marked and entered into the cache listing as hidden waypoints. Thoughts on this?

I own three night caches. The reflector trails are 2 to 3 miles long, with hundreds of reflectors. I have a POI file with the coords to each, individual reflector, for maintenance purposes. I'd rather not have to repeat all that data entry as waypoints.

[+SSO JOAT]

Thanks for the replies. My first attempt at this will be close by and a fairly short trail that can be tackled by foot via hiking, snowshoe, skiis, etc. It is winter after all, so I'm working on adding to our winter access cache count and being dark 18 hours out of the day makes a night cache a no brainer for something fun to do in the snow.

 

The last post brings up a point about another cache idea I've been thinking about. We have a large state recreation area that is primarily accessed by snowmachine or dog sled in the winter. The whole region has but 1 cache in it, so I've been mulling over ways to put in some winter access caches that would make for nice hunts via snowmachine (there's very little summer access to the area). A couple traditionals at some great viewpoints and other points of interest are easy to work out, but I've been wanting to run some multis along the main access trails. The trick is coming up with means of making stages that will fit with snowmachines, yet be set in such a way that the thousands of muggle snowmachiners won't be finding them. The night cache idea seems to fill this bill rather well as one could use the headlight on the snowmachine to follow a reflector trail. Naturally there must be some twists and turns that require GPS use instead of simply running down a main groomed trail but those concepts are still in development.

 

So, most of these trails are at least 10 miles long before you get to the "play" areas. I didn't think that running a reflector or "traditional" multi trail for that length was such a good idea, but perhaps there isn't a problem with making a run of such distance? Placing out a "power trail" of traditionals or laying out 3 or 4 different multis along a 10 mile section of trail is another idea that's been tossed around (there are 4 of us working over these ideas). Another reason why the night cache idea is sounding better is that I haven't deteremined just how much interest there is in this area for caching. I might find out that there are very few geocachers who ride the area and none of these caches will get many visits, so I don't really want to invest a considerable amount of time and energy into an awesome 10 mile multi cache only to have no one show up. But this is why a couple easy traditionals will be placed out there first. Just to test interest... but now I'm just rambling on.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

You may want to consider entering waypoints for the sake of repairing the cache... if necessary. I remember you had a local problem.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Some extraneous info, it speaks to "use of gps".

 

One of the ways to both protect the cache and insure gps use is to have your tack trail lead to a double or triple tack where a set of coordinates is hidden. Coords for the cache. This will protect your cache from those (in my area generally hunters) out late or early with flashlights. Re whether the cache is multi or mystery, whether you need to load all the tacks as points; your reviewer (erik88L-R or Crow T Robot) would be the definitive authority on that.

[+NorthWes]

 

The last post brings up a point about another cache idea I've been thinking about. We have a large state recreation area that is primarily accessed by snowmachine or dog sled in the winter. The whole region has but 1 cache in it, so I've been mulling over ways to put in some winter access caches that would make for nice hunts via snowmachine (there's very little summer access to the area). A couple traditionals at some great viewpoints and other points of interest are easy to work out, but I've been wanting to run some multis along the main access trails. The trick is coming up with means of making stages that will fit with snowmachines, yet be set in such a way that the thousands of muggle snowmachiners won't be finding them. The night cache idea seems to fill this bill rather well as one could use the headlight on the snowmachine to follow a reflector trail. Naturally there must be some twists and turns that require GPS use instead of simply running down a main groomed trail but those concepts are still in development.

 

 

WooHoo! I like the idea! Just a note of caution - the two snowmobiler clubs in your area (the Kenai Peninsula) mark their groomed trail system with a series of colored reflectors... so invest in the purchase of their trail maps so you conform to their system and don't create havoc on the groomed trail network. I make their signage/reflectors & am an avid snowmobile traveler (going later today up at Talkeetna, in fact). I'm amazed at how many folks who travel via 'snogo' have no navigation tools (map/compass/gps), or if they do - don't know how to use them. That's why the trail groomers set up color marker systems. In fact, up in Lake Louise country (near Glennallen) the green markers always show a route 'out' to the highway (not necessarily the spot you parked your auto ride, but at least you'd be at the only road up there...). So exercise caution with reflectors on groomed trails. The 'Snomads' (out of Homer) have a map with a legend that features Lat/Long coordinates for key intersections, destinations, and terrain features. I'm not sure if the central peninsula 'Cabin Hoppers' club has a published map (at least, I haven't made a sign with the map printed on it yet). I know you'll mark the cache as 'snowmobile needed'!

 

Yup - build it, and I'll come chase it! There's several of the local guys who'd like to travel with me on a cache hunt of that sort. I'd like to get 'that one' mtboy cache in the back country down there you mentioned, and a few more snogo caches would tempt me into an overnight trip down to your neck of the woods. I'm already planning a run across the western base of the Kenai Mtns to Burnt Island (on Turnagain Arm) to search for a particular benchmark... so a long weekend run including a night cache would be fun.

[+SSO JOAT]

I remember you had a local problem.

 

That "problem" appears to have been solved... at least for the time being. We'll see if it resurfaces in the spring, but for this winter stuff he's not even on my mind. Caching on!

[+SSO JOAT]

Yup - build it, and I'll come chase it!

 

You'd better! As you probably know, I mentioned this idea on the GAK forums a short while back with some positive feedback there as well. We just need a little more snow and I'm going to start setting. I've got a few plastic coffee cans that are getting "snow camo" paint jobs just for the hills. Some of this might be a case where it is a winter only cache and gets disabled for the summer time unless I replace the snow camo containers with woodland camo at the end of the season. We'll see how it goes.

 

I'm a member of the Cabin Hoppers and am well aware of the trail marking system. Two of the other cachers that are working on these ideas with me are on the board of directors for the club. And they do have published maps of the trails. You can download an image of the map from the club website. The really nice thing about the map is that is shows the land ownership, which is divided between private, native corporations, university, state and federal lands. The refuge is off limits and we can't put anything physical on any of the private or native lands. Basically the club uses large diamond shaped and color-coded reflectors at infrequent intervals to designate the main trails, but they have no marking of the lessor trails and some of the alternate routes. I've got a bunch of Fire Tacks heading my way that have no resemblance to the official trail markers. Plus, I'm not planning on keeping the cache trail aligned with the main groomed trails all the time or it would be a pretty boring hunt.

 

I've been thinking of ways one can "encode" waypoint adjustments into these reflectors, which would certainly push the cache type from multi to puzzle. My Slikok Cipher Project multi-cache was a great success and I think I can work similar elements into a longer snowmachine run. So there may in fact be a physical object or two along the way that would be specific waypoints with a container or object that one must manipulate. The possibilities are endless and the terrain is vast...

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Yup - build it, and I'll come chase it!

 

Oh man, I have fished the Kenai peninsula during the salmon run, now y'all got me plotting and planning how to afford a cache run up that way! Sounds great!

[+SSO JOAT]

Yup - build it, and I'll come chase it!

 

Oh man, I have fished the Kenai peninsula during the salmon run, now y'all got me plotting and planning how to afford a cache run up that way! Sounds great!

 

Zipcode search 99669 and get started on solving all the puzzle caches well ahead of time so you've got plenty of caches to hunt down in between the fishing stops. I've got several caches placed around one of the great bank fishing boardwalk parks that would tie you up for at least a couple hours. In fact, I can think of few Kenai River fishing spots that don't have a cache or two nearby.

[+SSO JOAT]

Here's an idear... a series of 10 reflector points along the night cache trail. Each point has a cluster of dots that corresponds to a number in the minutes portion of the coords for the final cache. The end of the trail gets you within a couple hundred feet of the final cache. You had to write down the number of dots at each point along the way. Once you plug them in you'll have the final cache location. Ta-da! Published as a puzzle with instructions on the cache page as to how to solve the final coords (nothing tricky). You get the degrees portions as a gimme, then just start counting the dots at each tree along the way and plug that number (1-9) into the coords with any zeros being given in the listing. Now you must use your GPS to get both the starting and ending points of the night trail.

[+Quiggle]

Also be sure your night cache is in an area open and accessible at night. Most parks in the areas I review would not fit that requirement.

[Skippermark]

Yes, that's very important. It can be quite frustrating to be half way through a night cache thinking you can be there, only to get approached by the DEP or police and threatened with arrest for trespassing.

[Clan Riffster]

An excellant point. It also helps when the local LEOs know you're allowed to be there at night. After I finished building Carpe Noctum, I beta tested the reflector trail at night. The area was specifically selected by the land manager, because night access was legal. As I was hoofing back to my truck I was met by a game warden who thought I must be a poacher.

[+SSO JOAT]

The area of which we were talking is a vast wilderness area (~10,000 acres) devoid of such things as "cops" and it is open 24/7. Being Alaska and winter, it's also dark from 4pm to 10am. So one can do a "night cache" in the late afternoon around here... before dinner.

[+DanOCan]

One of the ways to both protect the cache and insure gps use is to have your tack trail lead to a double or triple tack where a set of coordinates is hidden. Coords for the cache. This will protect your cache from those (in my area generally hunters) out late or early with flashlights.

 

Excellent idea. Another way to meet the GPSr requirement I have seen it done is that when you get to the end of the trail you are required to do a projection to find the final location.

 

As for some of the original points asked: Around here I have seen night caches listed as both Multis and Mysteries. I personally believe if the posted coordinates are the legitimate starting point it should be a Multi.

[+J-Way]

Here's another idea. Provide a link to the downloadable map in the cache description. Assuming the main trail reflectors can easily be followed at night, have the cachers follow a main trail to a starting point (listed coordinates) quite a distance from parking. At that point they leave the main trail and start looking for fire tacks. Even better would be to make the first tacks not visible from the main trail; instead include a second public waypoint off trail, or even make the listed coords far enough off trail.

 

This will reduce the number of fire tacks you'll need to buy as well as reduce potential confusion from novice snowmobilers mistaking a small red round fire tack for a large green diamond reflector and getting lost (I can easily see that happening).

 

I have a distant relative who lives somewhere in AK. I may visit some day...

[Skippermark]

One of the ways to both protect the cache and insure gps use is to have your tack trail lead to a double or triple tack where a set of coordinates is hidden. Coords for the cache.

Most of the night caches around here are setup that way using a mix of reflectors and coords. Generally, around here, whenever there's 3 reflectors in a triangle position, that means "look for something." Oftentimes it's coords and info to get to the next stage, but sometimes it's a hint to help you later on or something like that.

 

The area of which we were talking is a vast wilderness area (~10,000 acres) devoid of such things as "cops" and it is open 24/7. Being Alaska and winter, it's also dark from 4pm to 10am. So one can do a "night cache" in the late afternoon around here... before dinner.

I'm generally a day person, but that would be cool. In the northeast, this is the best time of the year to do night caches because it's generally dark enough to start a night cache at 4:30 in the afternoon. Sunrise is much earlier than 10 a.m. though.

[+SSO JOAT]

Provide a link to the downloadable map in the cache description. Assuming the main trail reflectors can easily be followed at night, have the cachers follow a main trail to a starting point (listed coordinates) quite a distance from parking. At that point they leave the main trail and start looking for fire tacks. Even better would be to make the first tacks not visible from the main trail; instead include a second public waypoint off trail, or even make the listed coords far enough off trail.

 

Great idea. I'm thinking I'll be stealing this concept.

 

Got the fire tacks the other day and it's been snowing. Time to head out and start building my first one!