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Keith Watson

Newbie Cachers Should Not Be Allowed To Place Caches

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Micros tossed in the landscaping of Subway with seekers in full view of patrons and employees; on the side of the street in view of dozens of homes; LPC's in the parking lots of private industrial employers; in public landscaping that require flower trampling to retrieve, to name a few.

 

I know the reviewers are swamped, but in my view caches on private property should not even be considered for review unless the owner specifically states in his application that the land owner has given permission....

 

They do.

 

They do what? Get approval from the landowner?? Not around here they don't!!

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Let me say this about that..... :D

We have found thousands of geocaches in hundreds of cities. <_<

Each town has good hiders and bad hiders.

 

I will agree that new geocachers don't really have a good reference or baseline until they have found assorted geocaches.

 

However..... After returning to the same cities years later, the same lousy hiders are hiding the same lousy hides. :laughing:

 

It seems to be built in their heads, rather than a learned thing.

I honestly don't think the number of finds directly affects the quality of their hides.

It only took me one bush find to realize that cachers will have to get dirty in order to find a bush hide.

Since then I am quite picky about where I toss my magnetic micro's. <_<

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Now that we have a reviewer in the thread, do the reviewers us satellite maps when reviewing cache coordinates? If so, is this used to question cache placement?

 

When I review, I use satellite maps often. As stated by Tequila, there is a need for that which goes beyond the simple saturation aspects. This naturally means that sometimes it results in the questioning of some cache placements.

 

It might be best to have this in a separate forum since discussion of this would be off-topic here. That is if you have other questions that I can answer.

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Hmmm....

 

While I agree that cachers should have experience before placing their first cache, I would hate to see it become a rule or a requirement. Not everyone lives in an area where you can rack 100 'founds' to qualify to place a first cache.

 

In my area, when I started there were few caches to be found. I think I was at found=17 when I placed my first cache. BTW, the cache is still going strong after almost 3 years.

 

And just because a cacher has no or few finds in his account doesn't mean that they do not have experience. I have seen several young people who have cached with their parents under a family nick, and just recently made an account for themselves.

 

Locally, I watch (and usually try for FTF) on any new cache that is approved. I have found no correlation between a cacher's experience level and the quality of the placed cache.

 

Good caches and bad caches can happen to everyone. As a community, we should foster and help new cachers as they develop, and guide the 'old hand' who has forgotten what it was like to find their first cache!

 

Quality, no quantity, is the key!

Edited by Fuzzywhip

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Keith, here's a new one that just popped up in your neck of the woods. It has been placed by a person with no cache finds. Let's see if this will be a great cache or not. Check it out.

 

I just noticed this new one as well -- looks kind of funny to me. What's up with the address? (which is not where the cache appears to be, it's a school). All lower case spelling, title mis-spelled, joined less than a month ago.....

 

Maybe it's something extra clever and sneaky, it's a 3 / 2 1/2

 

Chris

This one was hidden by my classmates the reason the school adress is there is because we all had to hide a geocache for a class project

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This one was hidden by my classmates the reason the school adress is there is because we all had to hide a geocache for a class project

 

Welcome!... A class project was it. Glad to see that something like that occurred. If you have read the

thread, you will see that MOST of us are supportive of anyone who takes time to create a cache. I haven't

made one yet, but then I have been out of shcool for many years, but occupied by life... On the other hand,

the big concern is that caches fit the 'rules' and are of course, not giveaways... So my question to you would be... were you left to figure it out on your own (a research project) or did you get some sort of classroom instruction on how, where etc. Also do any of your classmates check in here or are they not

as dedicated to caching... Many people only do project's for the credit not out of interest... are any of them

active cachers now, or did they fade away... or maybe intend to return next spring... Many of us have put it aside for a bit better weather... and other pastimes... Do you know what the other caches are... I'm not likely to be looking, since I'm in B.C. I'm sure more than one cacher here would like to visit them if good.

I saw one listed to you (the falls thing)... that seemed well received... but that was from the logs... was that your project?

 

Anyway got to run... nice to meet you. Doug

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This one was hidden by my classmates the reason the school adress is there is because we all had to hide a geocache for a class project

 

Welcome!... A class project was it. Glad to see that something like that occurred. If you have read the

thread, you will see that MOST of us are supportive of anyone who takes time to create a cache. I haven't

made one yet, but then I have been out of shcool for many years, but occupied by life... On the other hand,

the big concern is that caches fit the 'rules' and are of course, not giveaways... So my question to you would be... were you left to figure it out on your own (a research project) or did you get some sort of classroom instruction on how, where etc. Also do any of your classmates check in here or are they not

as dedicated to caching... Many people only do project's for the credit not out of interest... are any of them

active cachers now, or did they fade away... or maybe intend to return next spring... Many of us have put it aside for a bit better weather... and other pastimes... Do you know what the other caches are... I'm not likely to be looking, since I'm in B.C. I'm sure more than one cacher here would like to visit them if good.

I saw one listed to you (the falls thing)... that seemed well received... but that was from the logs... was that your project?

 

Anyway got to run... nice to meet you. Doug

 

Yes we did get some instructions and we read all the rules and guidelines on how to hide acache and before we did the project we went out and found a few caches as a class

 

The other caches my class hid are Monster And Twisted trees as for Hidden Falls that is one I hid before the project

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Yes we did get some instructions and we read all the rules and guidelines on how to hide acache and before we did the project we went out and found a few caches as a class

 

The other caches my class hid are Monster And Twisted trees as for Hidden Falls that is one I hid before the project

 

Thanks for the list... I'm guessing it might be either just short, or there are some others... unless that is a

very small class :rolleyes: I checked out the page for the "Hidden Falls" as I said and it looked good...

I'm originally from Toronto and know the area well. We live out here in Elkford BC and there are some really nice caching sites just waiting for me... to place and find. Things have been a bit busy for us in the area the last couple of days... if you watch the news... sometimes you find things you don't really want to but it has to be done... Anyway, you can always check out caches in the East Kootenay

region, who knows someday you might be visiting the area... lots to find... but it isn't a really big winter pastime here, yet anyway... I have Ideas about one up our xc ski trail, which is mostly safe in winter... I was

up to one cabin last weekend at the 3.5 km marker... not that far, but all uphill and there is another 3.5km to the 2nd cabin... so lots of winter possible cache sites in that stretch, maybe... It's doable in summer as well on foot... nice 'semi wilderness area' no motorized thingies allowed most of the time...

 

Got to run. hope you got good marks..

 

Doug

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Keith, here's a new one that just popped up in your neck of the woods. It has been placed by a person with no cache finds. Let's see if this will be a great cache or not. Check it out.

Britney Underwear -- a typical Joker. :unsure:

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Hi everyone: Everyone in any thing in life has to start off being a newbie. No matter what in life.. Every one needs a chance.. No one is perfect either...

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Hi everyone: Everyone in any thing in life has to start off being a newbie. No matter what in life.. Every one needs a chance.. No one is perfect either...

I couldn't agree more, lots of new cachers have given me enjoyable cache hunts and introduced me to new spots. That said I've also suffered at the hands of inexperienced cachers, "Circle of Life" by jsheils (GC1EPF6) and "The Chameleon" by muskie63 (GC1H2PH) are probably the latest examples.

 

No matter. I have learned not to rush out after a newbie cachers hide. I now wait and let others beta-test the cache.

 

Locally we still continue to advise newcomers to get some experience over several seasons before placing a cache, but you have to take each case on it's own merits. For every cache I've found in a cardboard box thirty meters from the posted co-ordinates there has been a great container in an excellent hide in a lovely spot.

 

Go hide them! I want to find them....

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I wonder if limiting the amount of caches a person can put out will help, I've also wondered how long should you leave a cache out, (amount of finds)

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For what it is worth, I'll put my personal experience in here.

 

My first hide was published after 2 1/2 months caching and around 50 finds, including one event. Being a "newbie", I missed some of the finer points of the cache placement guidelines, and unknowingly submitted it in the form of a "virtual", but CacheDrone, doing his job, quickly put me right. The cache is still active, and has gotten lots of good logs from experienced, and inexperienced cachers alike.

 

Just this past Saturday We did some caches, one of which was placed by a prolific hider with over a thousand finds. It was a micro at the side of a busy main road and it was impossible to find without being ogled by all the people passing by on the road. Many cachers would consider this to be a poor hide, but we take this kind of hide as just part of the package! Actually, it was quite clever aside from all the exposure!

 

My points are that a "bad" hide is subjective, and can be placed by new, or experienced cachers alike, and are just part of the game. Of course, we should all strive to have better quality caches, but for us, even poor ones give us something to find!

 

A good reviewer can go a long way toward helping a new hider get it right.

 

I believe placing a good cache has much more to do with the hider's imagination and willingness to be guided and desire to place the best cache they know how to, rather than their lenght of experience, or number of finds.

 

BC

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I wonder if limiting the amount of caches a person can put out will help, I've also wondered how long should you leave a cache out, (amount of finds)

 

I placed my first cache over five years ago with only a few finds. Over 60 people have found it so far. Every once and a while another person finds it.

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Some people care about the quality of their hides.

Some people do not care on iota.

 

Some people care about getting good feedback on their hides.

Some people dot not care about feedback at all.

Some people want bad feedback on their hides.

 

Some people want the finders to have a good experience.

Some people don't care about the finder's experience.

Some people want the finders to have a bad experience.

 

It does not matter whether you have zero finds or a thousand finds. Some people will still have the same attitude.

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I can't wait for the darn snow to go away so I can go find one to start with! ;)

 

Lorne

Why wait? Search for caches that have the 'winter friendly' icon, and you can cache in the winter, too!.

 

adamsloco

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I hope I fool some people with my first hide! =)

 

Delhi, huh? I might be able to swing over and look for that this summer when I'm in Port Dover and Simcoe. So your profile says 0 finds and that 1 hide. Have you really never found a cache before hiding that, or have you been out with other people, or just never logged any caches online?

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I hope I fool some people with my first hide! =)

.. So your profile says 0 finds and that 1 hide. ..

 

And 8 forum posts :lol:

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I hope I fool some people with my first hide! =)

.. So your profile says 0 finds and that 1 hide. ..

 

And 8 forum posts :D

 

B):(:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Yeah I work from home on the computer....and so what if I have 8 forum posts already?? I'm not allowed to post here?

 

I went out looking for a cache, there aren't many in my area, I didn't find the one I went looking for, we will be back out...but in the meantime we went and hid one at the local conservation area where I live to give other geocacher's in the area some more fun.

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I hope I fool some people with my first hide! =)

.. So your profile says 0 finds and that 1 hide. ..

 

And 8 forum posts :D

 

What are you complaining about anyway looks like you love to go searching! B)

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Wasn't the the "great" Deer Bait placed by a newbie?

 

In 2001, everybody was a newbie.

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I can't wait for the darn snow to go away so I can go find one to start with! :D

 

Lorne

Why wait? Search for caches that have the 'winter friendly' icon, and you can cache in the winter, too!.

 

adamsloco

 

Winter friendly icon! will have to have a look for that now.

 

Lorne

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I hope I fool some people with my first hide! =)

.. So your profile says 0 finds and that 1 hide. ..

 

And 8 forum posts :D

 

B):(:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Yeah I work from home on the computer....and so what if I have 8 forum posts already?? I'm not allowed to post here?

 

I went out looking for a cache, there aren't many in my area, I didn't find the one I went looking for, we will be back out...but in the meantime we went and hid one at the local conservation area where I live to give other geocacher's in the area some more fun.

 

No! Newbies are not allowed to post here! :ph34r: Oh, I think you misunderstood. I was just asking if you had been out looking for caches with other people, or had found a bunch and never logged them on the website, before hiding your first cache. OK now, I am definitely looking for that the last weekend in June, although I'll probably come back covered in ticks.

 

If you're from Delhi, no there aren't many caches. The nearest one to yours, Up the Creek, is apparently missing.

 

Yes, everyone was a newbie in the winter of 2001, including the guy who placed Deer Bait. The only strange thing about that cache is BQ calling up someone in the phone book, and asking them if they are the guy who placed Deer Bait. :blink:

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TheWhiteUrkel: To answer your question then, we're new. :D No cache's found yet but I at least did a bit of research and picked a pretty decent hide (I think) so we'll have to wait for a few more people to leave some feedback on the cache before we know if its good or not.

 

I wouldn't have hid one here if there was already an abundance of them, but since there were none around really, I figured it'd be fun to hide one for you folks to find. B)

 

Hm.....I have an urge to walk to the end of Long Point today and find "Get to the Point" :(

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After doing some checking up on "Get to the Point", you need a boat to get to the point! Or so they say.....

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I'm not complaining - I think its great :D

 

n00b hides are fine in my opinion - Its the veterans complaining about them that sours the game i find.

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After doing some checking up on "Get to the Point", you need a boat to get to the point! Or so they say.....

 

Yes, I believe it's illegal to walk to it, and it's supposed to be boat only. I've looked at it, and know someone who has found it, but I'm sure I never will. :D Looks like 18 of the first page (20 caches) centered on Simcoe have been found this month, several in the last few days. You must have picked one that is obviously not winter friendly. I just had a snow related DNF myself yesterday. It's even worse when the snow is all hard and crusty.

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n00b hides are fine in my opinion - Its the veterans complaining about them that sours the game i find.

 

I'm in agreement with the pig... I found that I learned quite quickly what I enjoyed about this little game/hobby we have here, and it didn't consist of lamp skirts and the like. So, while I personally have decided not to place any lamp skirt micros, I don't fault those who do. Instead, it seems more logical to me to be an ambassador of the game and coach people along, rather than simply complaining, centering a group out and waxing apathetic.

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Nevermind the n00b hiders. What's really getting my back up is people that complain about caches that aren't their cup of tea. Everyone takes something out of geocaching, and as long as the cache itself isn't illegal you have no business complaining about a hide that is too simple, or too typical.

 

What I've been seeing pop up lately is really irritating me.

There is a relatively new hider placing some caches in an area that has been inactive for a while. Like a lot of people starting out, they're placing 'typical' hides like newspaper box micros, lamp skirt micros and small caches under park bridges. So far, so good. I've been watching an evolution occur with this person's cache hides, and they're getting creative.

 

Then I see some logs that are those typical "I hate your cache" logs. One word log entries. One letter log entries.... followed by an advertising tag for an upcoming event cache.

 

What kind of gall does it take for an experienced cacher to complain about a cache, and then start marketing a "better" cache in their log entry!?

 

I will not name names, or post links to logs to protect the guilty. Hopefully they can self-identify and correct this habit.

 

But seriously guys - THIS is how we welcome new hiders?

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And 1 within 10kms of my cache.

 

Which brings me back to "...there aren't many in my area..."

 

Thanks though! :)

 

You live in Canada. 10 km is close. :D

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And 1 within 10kms of my cache.

 

Which brings me back to "...there aren't many in my area..."

 

Thanks though! :D

 

You live in Canada. 10 km is close. :laughing:

 

Ah well, 4 people have already went looking and found my cache, it's got some great feedback already, so I must have done a good job.

 

I can see how people would get frustrated with bad hides, but you can't assume all newbies are going to be bad hiders either. :D

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Well lets see, I have not found a lot of caches or placed a lot of caches.

 

I have messed up on one I placed but it was found even though it was out 30 feet.

 

Newbies placing caches usually have a gps that needs to sit and settle down for about 10 minutes to get an accurate reading but again are not usually more than 15 or 20 meters off, so depending on where it is and the size of it and if the clue actually means anything on if it can be found.

 

Yes we all know the cachers that have managed to find a cache that was a kilometer out.

 

The problem really starts when you find a cacher that places a cache and has no finds. Turns out they don't own a GPS, they have no idea how to use one or intend on getting and using one.

 

What do they use to place the cache?

 

Why GOOGLE EARTH!

 

Sure makes it frustrating to find that you are looking for a cache that is 140 meters out or more. These people hope that someone will go out there and find it for them, post the correct co-ords and this way they can update it on the page just like was done with the cache that was posted in this thread.

 

Ya there should something done about it, if you have no finds then you can't have any hides.

 

But what can be done, 25 cache finds before you can place a cache?

 

So they just go and log 25 caches online, who knows if they actually did them or not.

 

Heck these people using google earth to place caches even make up users to go find them.

 

So its all a moot point what we say or what can be done about.

 

ABSOLUTELY nothing!

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Yes, everyone was a newbie in the winter of 2001, including the guy who placed Deer Bait. The only strange thing about that cache is BQ calling up someone in the phone book, and asking them if they are the guy who placed Deer Bait. <_<

 

I know... it is unusual that I used a 'phone' :lol: . And for the record, it was the first number that I tried. He was thrilled and we went caching the next night for part of the interview. My wife of course thought I was nuts, to which I will concede.

 

B) BQ

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