woodstrider Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 What is up with Harriman State Park? No new geocaches in awhile. I can't believe the interest in placing hides in this park has peaked. Anyway- I've just about cleared the Park of other peoples hides and I am thinking of placing a few of my own. I have "discovered a few interesting oddities worthy of commemoration with a geocache or earthcache. Backpacking to Geocache Quote Link to comment
+MountainRacer Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Could have something to do with the permit system in NY state parks being a pain to navigate. Wouldn't know, myself, but it's a possibility. Quote Link to comment
+WaylessWood Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I didn't find the permit system too difficult to navigate. A few phone calls and sending in a permit application. The people I dealt with were very helpful. It took a little time on my part to get it done. Some cachers take issue with the fact that you have a government body getting in the way and restricting what you are able to do. Having gotten a permit for a cache, I would say that I see the biggest road block being the additional restrictions placed by the state. Here are a few: - You can only have the cache in place for 2 years and then it must be taken out. - Caches must be at least .25mi apart. - There is a limit of 5 sites (including multi-cache stages) at a given facility. - Caches must be within 20' of a trail unless otherwise approved. - The permit must be placed on the cache container, but you have to provide the location where you want to hide it on the permit application. So technically I guess this means hike in and find a location. Apply for the permit and place the cache. An extra hike to place the cache, which shouldn't be a problem as you are also agreeing to check on the cache twice a year. For me, the cache spacing is not a big deal, especially in a park the size of Harriman. But the other four requirements just make placing a cache there a lot of extra work. And, of those requirements, the 2 year limit is the killer for caches that require you to take a hike. Your cache will likely only see a small handful of visits in its short life. Would I go through the process again? Perhaps, but it would have to be for a hiding spot that really called out for a cache placement. Go ahead and hide a cache there, MountainRacer and a few others of us who don't mind a hike will not complain. Quote Link to comment
+MountainRacer Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Go ahead and hide a cache there, MountainRacer and a few others of us who don't mind a hike will not complain. Darn right! I could use an extra cache on the way up to Seven Hills Summit... hint hint! Quote Link to comment
+Packanack Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 (edited) Forget Harriman, I am thinking of going hiking for the secret caches of Sterling Forest, a completely off the charts grouping only known to those who have been invited to seek them. You swear to secrecy and then you get the list, but only if you are deemed trustworthy by your sponsor. I hope I haven't said too much already. Edited November 25, 2008 by Packanack Quote Link to comment
+brian b Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 A few of us had some very good caches hidden within Harriman, but when the permit system was put in place, we archived them. At one time, I had a "Shelters of Harriman" series (Stone Memorial) that brought hikers to each of the stone shelters within the park system. Since the inception of the permit system, I have refused to place any caches within any state parks. Quote Link to comment
+macatac1961 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Harriman is an incredible resource. Great trails and history. The only downside of this resource is that it is run by the state of New York. They need to have their hands on everything. IMO an organized crime outfit, but that's another argument. I've spoken to a few of the parks maintenance staff and from what I understand, the permit system just gives them more to deal with on an already limited budget. In essence, they can't deal with it individually and let the Palisades Park Commission take care of issuing the permits. Harriman is actually 5 individual parks so you could place up to 25 caches if you wanted to go through the permit system. I did and it wasn't that difficult. Also, I only visited once. I scaled the CO's for the permit application from Google Earth, then refined them when I went to place the containers. I was pissed off about the permits too but it's the state of NY, and NY can't help but be NY. Kind of like living in New Mexico and being mad that it's hot all the time. And like Mr. Wood said, I wouldn't complain if a few new ones popped up... just please, no earthcaches. Quote Link to comment
+Walkin' Ed Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 When I first started caching, new caches popped up in Harriman weekly. The permit system seems to be a problem for many cachers. Besides the regulations stated above, there is the problem of obtaining the permits since the park offices are only open M-F during normal business hours when most people are working. You could do it by mail but that just adds another week to the approval process. When the permit system was initiated many cachers like brianb archived their caches as per the regulations. Others ignored the rules and left their caches there. Unlike Sterling Forest, it was decided that it would be a waste of resources for park personnel to search for and remove geocaches. Although new caches won't be approved without a permit, Groundspeak has also ignored the older caches, so they remain. Only the law abidingt cachers removed their caches or obtained permits. I have 5 caches in Bear Mountain SP (which is a separate park from Harriman SP). The only difficulty I had with the permit system is going back to the caches to affix the permit. By the way, the permits for these caches expires in the Spring and I'll be archiving them at that time. I already have a new series planned. And no, it won't involve an Earthcache. Quote Link to comment
+WaylessWood Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 I have 5 caches in Bear Mountain SP (which is a separate park from Harriman SP). The only difficulty I had with the permit system is going back to the caches to affix the permit. By the way, the permits for these caches expires in the Spring and I'll be archiving them at that time. I already have a new series planned. And no, it won't involve an Earthcache. Sounds like it is time for me to make my way back into the woods of Harriman! Quote Link to comment
continental drifter Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Brian B. The Shelter series was an excellent group of caches. Quote Link to comment
polskikrol Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 I have 5 caches in Bear Mountain SP (which is a separate park from Harriman SP). The only difficulty I had with the permit system is going back to the caches to affix the permit. By the way, the permits for these caches expires in the Spring and I'll be archiving them at that time. I already have a new series planned. And no, it won't involve an Earthcache. Sounds like it is time for me to make my way back into the woods of Harriman! Dont suppose anyone has any good trail maps for Harriman? Sounds like a group hike with an early morning breakfast might be in order! Quote Link to comment
+macatac1961 Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 You can get the Trail Conference maps at Campmor or at the park store on the parkway: N 41° 17.323 W 074° 01.537 Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 (edited) What is up with Harriman State Park? No new geocaches in awhile. I can't believe the interest in placing hides in this park has peaked. Anyway- I've just about cleared the Park of other peoples hides and I am thinking of placing a few of my own. I have "discovered a few interesting oddities worthy of commemoration with a geocache or earthcache. Backpacking to Geocache Only been there once, and only looked for a few caches while passing through. Great place. I found a bookmark list, and if it's accurate and up to date, lists 110 caches. Looks like over half of BigBill6 caches are still active, and seem to get happy logs. I was surprised at that. (Don't know if every single one of them is in Harriman, but I'll bet most of them). I'd go for it yourself, assuming you don't have a problem dealing with the with the pain in the butt permit system. And remember the .25 mile rule. Edited November 26, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel Quote Link to comment
+HaLiJuSaPa Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 (edited) I don't disagree that much of the reason is the permit system, but I wonder if another factor to some extent is the economy as well. We already know how there's more micro-spew than there used to be because it is cheaper and easier to take an empty pill bottle and put in a log (and maybe a small pen) than to get an ammo box full of swag. I noticed in general (at least in my immediate area) that there's far fewer new hides than there used to be (and most of the new ones are micros and nanos) and I imagine this is part of the reason. To some extent it's limited creating new hides for us for the time being, I know that, so I imagine we can't be alone. Edited November 27, 2008 by HaLiJuSaPa Quote Link to comment
+MountainRacer Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Dont suppose anyone has any good trail maps for Harriman? Sounds like a group hike with an early morning breakfast might be in order! I picked that map up from a cache a few months ago in Ramapo Mountain SF. I'll bring it to Fuddruckers next week. Quote Link to comment
+hallycat Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Dont suppose anyone has any good trail maps for Harriman? Sounds like a group hike with an early morning breakfast might be in order! I picked that map up from a cache a few months ago in Ramapo Mountain SF. I'll bring it to Fuddruckers next week. Walkin Ed showed me and my posse a lovely trail map when we were there for Pirates. They would make nice Christmas gifts Ed *hint* Quote Link to comment
woodstrider Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 Well, it sure is nice to read these replies to my question, though I am not convinced that it was answered. I recognize many of the names from reading the log books in the Harriman State Park caches ( and many others) that I have found ( which is all but one and I am not convinced that it is still there- its the "Down by the River" cache). But as I am new to this sport I am not sure that my name will be as familar. Brian b, I am sorry that you archived your Shelter Series, I understood that all caches in the park before the new regulations took effect were grandfathered in. I wonder is anyone ever pulls a cache after two years? I also agree with many in their positive comments of the park. I just love Harriman. It's my favorite place to backpack to geocache. But, I guess I'll have to push on. Quote Link to comment
woodstrider Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 At one time, I had a "Shelters of Harriman" series (Stone Memorial) that brought hikers to each of the stone shelters within the park system. What about the "Secret Shelters of Harriman State Park"? How many do you know? I can count three. Quote Link to comment
+Walkin' Ed Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Many of the camps in Harriman had lean-os or shelters built for the campers. I can think of at least four that may be called "secret shelters". There is the shelter on the 1777 trail on Pleasant Valley Road. It's actually the remains of a concrete garage. It was used by the Riverside Church of NYC as a shelter and until recently appeared on NYNJTC maps. There is also a shelter near the water towers above Upper Twin Lake. I believe this is still used by a girl's camp. Another is located along the road to Lake Te Ata and Lower Twin Lake. Again I believe it is still used by the camps. Many years ago my son discovered one on a hill above the Kanawauke Circle. It hasn't been used in quite awhile. The shelter on the Long Path above Upper Lake Cohasset still appears on recent maps so probably doesn't count. Tose are the ones I can think of off hand. If you know of any more let me know. Quote Link to comment
+brian b Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 There is one just off of Tiorati Brook Road, up behind the Day Camp in the Park area. I used to work there, pre-kids, and I created a small trail up to the old tin shelter to cook s'mores and hot dogs with the campers. It can be accessed near the baseball fields on TBRoad. It has been years since I have been there. Quote Link to comment
woodstrider Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 I know most of those shelters that were mentioned by brian b and walkin' ed- except one. The shelter above Kannewauke Circle gets regular and hard use. This is one that I was thinking of. ... as does the one on Pleasant Valley Road (which as Ed rightly states is really an old single car garage- a left over from the days of the Moore Estate I believe. On one of the older versions of the TC map it is shown as a shelter. I don't count it as a shelter myself. And it has never looked appealing to me. I have yet to visit the one on the road connecting twin and summit lakes, this was my second mystery shelter. Though I have visited this area many times. My third mystery shelter no one has mentioned. And neither will I in this venue. But, It is not a mystery to some and gets alot of use, too, especially if one is to go by all the broken beer bottles. Quote Link to comment
+bigbill6 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 What is up with Harriman State Park? No new geocaches in awhile. I can't believe the interest in placing hides in this park has peaked. Anyway- I've just about cleared the Park of other peoples hides and I am thinking of placing a few of my own. I have "discovered a few interesting oddities worthy of commemoration with a geocache or earthcache. Backpacking to Geocache Only been there once, and only looked for a few caches while passing through. Great place. I found a bookmark list, and if it's accurate and up to date, lists 110 caches. Looks like over half of BigBill6 caches are still active, and seem to get happy logs. I was surprised at that. (Don't know if every single one of them is in Harriman, but I'll bet most of them). I'd go for it yourself, assuming you don't have a problem dealing with the with the pain in the butt permit system. And remember the .25 mile rule. Quote Link to comment
+bigbill6 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Yes most of BigBill's caches are in Harriman. I believe 25 of his 42 caches are still active. I hope people will continue to enjoy his hides for a long time. I hope to see some of his caches,I have never looked for a cache yet. Lew (Bill's Brother) Quote Link to comment
+jonboy Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I have been making GPS maps for quite a few years. If you contact me I will e-mail some trail maps in GPX format. These tracks can be loaded onto any number of programs. I am currently using Expert GPS, Nat Geo Topo for maps and Back Country Navigator for my android phone. Quote Link to comment
+edscott Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 If you want good maps of Harriman check out Hudson Valley Orienteering clubs maps. Yes they have every trail, but also every cliff and boulder as well as the density of the vegetation and the contour data. See http://hvo.us.orienteering.org/Content/pid=12.html or http://hvo.us.orienteering.org/Content/pid=12.html#woc_maps for lists of what they have. DVOA, my Orienteering club, also has loads of copies of the area West of 7 Lakes, between Kanawauke and Tiorati, and another of the hills between Lake Welch and Tiorati. Quote Link to comment
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