The end of free caching

[+Team Evil Fish]

Sorry, the owner of this listing has made it viewable to subscribers only.

 

I got this message when using the Jeremy said would never close back door log on a members only cache...

 

sad sad

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

can you clarify this post a little? Cause I don't understand what it is you are talking about. I am new and maybe I am missing something.

[+Cardinal Red]

Sorry, the owner of this listing has made it viewable to subscribers only.

 

I got this message when using the Jeremy said would never close back door log on a members only cache...

 

sad sad

The end of free caching? Quite a bit overstated.

 

You can't look up any local caches tomorrow for free? You can't go find many caches for free? You can't log those many caches for free? I don't know why Groundspeak stealthily closed the MOC loophole, but it will have very little impact on your Geocaching experience. This doesn't seem to be the most appropriate place to post this. Another thread has transformed into a discussion about this: Logging a PM cache, What's the back door?

[+Team Evil Fish]

I guess this goes to the point and had I not been on the phone with a fellow cacher searching for a cache would not have seen a cache post so I went for a FTF, I should have waited to make my post, but as requested I will fill in a bunch of Blanks..

 

First off is Geocaching a pay to play sport/site? I think not but it seems with all these little camel noses happening it is forcing it that way.

 

Ok I can see asking for money to get a Icon ie coins and travel bugs.

asking for money to get additional search features such as PQ's.

but with the mutation of PM caches it becoming more of a pay to play.

 

anyone who creates an account can find a cache using the search features. If a PM hides a cache making it PMO it still shows to us regular folk, cant see the page but can see and find the location, as I have personally done for each of the caches that show. I have noticed as of late that they have been excluded doing a geocaching/google maps search but can be seen in the caches nearby link. I am sure that the we want more money crowd is working to fix that as well, just like closing the back door. Oh yeah don't let the cold air out..

 

Is Geocaching a pay to play??

 

What is the saying about the camels nose??? Connect the dots folks paying a fee to find/log a cache should never become mandatory...the end of free caching...

Edited November 22, 2008 by Team Evil Fish

[CLV3]

Umm Groundspeak does not make the choice for a cache to be subscriber only, it is an option the hider can select when posting their caches. Besides, there are PLENTY of caches available to all. Does it really make a difference that some are subscriber only? As far as I am aware this is not that new as it has been an option since I started in like April. Why not just move onto the next cache that is free? Its not really a big deal people!

[+DiamondDaveG]

Let me see if I understand, the 2 closest PMO caches just under 17 miles from my house. There are 232 caches closer than they are. I can search for them without paying for a membership.

 

I guess I am missing something. When do I pay to look for them? Will I have to swipe my credit card to release the lock on the piece of tree bark I need to lift?

 

-edit for poor spelling-

Edited January 19, 2009 by DiamondDaveG

[+WRASTRO]

I guess this goes to the point and had I not been on the phone with a fellow cacher searching for a cache would not have seen a cache post so I went for a FTF, I should have waited to make my post, but as requested I will fill in a bunch of Blanks..

 

First off is Geocaching a pay to play sport/site? I think not but it seems with all these little camel noses happening it is forcing it that way.

 

Ok I can see asking for money to get a Icon ie coins and travel bugs.

asking for money to get additional search features such as PQ's.

but with the mutation of PM caches it becoming more of a pay to play.

 

anyone who creates an account can find a cache using the search features. If a PM hides a cache making it PMO it still shows to us regular folk, cant see the page but can see and find the location, as I have personally done for each of the caches that show. I have noticed as of late that they have been excluded doing a geocaching/google maps search but can be seen in the caches nearby link. I am sure that the we want more money crowd is working to fix that as well, just like closing the back door. Oh yeah don't let the cold air out..

 

Is Geocaching a pay to play??

 

What is the saying about the camels nose??? Connect the dots folks paying a fee to find/log a cache should never become mandatory...the end of free caching...

Pay to play? No.

Pay to get some extra stuff and few more caches? Yes.

Fair? Way too.

[+qlenfg]

Using the Geocaching website is free. If you want extra features, such as pocket queries, you can become a premium member. Cache owners have the option of making their caches available only to premium members.

 

Personally, I think the 'premium' caches are kind of silly, but in our area there are probably thousands of regular caches to find, so its really a non-issue for me. Your mileage may vary.

[+scuba dude]

I know I've gotten worked up over some silly stuff before, but this has to take the cake!

 

If you want to log a PMO cache, pay the money and support the site. I would HATE it if you had to contribute to all the hardwork done towards the maintenance of this website which gives you the hobby you love so much.

Edited January 20, 2009 by scuba dude

[+Isonzo Karst]

Have you seen the 2007 Lackey coin? it pictures the Lackeys as of time of design (likely early 2007). Lackeys are paid employees. There are 27 images, which equals 27 salaries (or hourly wages, perhaps, whatever).

 

You can certainly hide and seek caches for free in the sense that you can place them, advertise them and find them advertised on the web in all sorts of places: but here, the site is large, has employees, office space, insurance, servers, etc, ie, costs of operation. Tain't free.

[+Texas4Ever]

Honestly they own everything about GC. Kinda like a monopoly. You have to wonder why they have no competition with how popular it has become.

 

The world is motivated by money and at this point it surprises me nobody else has tried to cash in. Or maybe they have and it bombed.

 

Either way GC.com can do whatever they want. They are the only thing we got. The idea of paying more to play more seems silly to me. Maybe someday when I get bored of finding the caches in my area I will upgrade, but for now I love it.

 

It is easy, active, and fun. I could careless about being the FTF or anything that the premium members get. However I fear having paying in the future.

[Geo_Bird]

Honestly they own everything about GC. Kinda like a monopoly. You have to wonder why they have no competition with how popular it has become.

 

There is, TerraCaching. I signed up for that site. You have to go through the motions of being "sponsored" by two other "members," which took about 15 minutes. The caches seem to be placed by many of the same people who post them on GC.com. All of the TC caches are >10 miles from me, though. I don't mind walking, but unless I have another reason to go to an area, I don't feel right about driving very far to look for caches. I got my GPSr for other uses, and took up geocaching as a sideline. But there is at least one alternative. Personally, I find GC.com suits my needs. Geocaching is an avocation, not a necessity. If they are getting rich, it's through money voluntarily paid by users, not a government bailout!

 

Jim

[Mr.Yuck]

I guess this goes to the point and had I not been on the phone with a fellow cacher searching for a cache would not have seen a cache post so I went for a FTF, I should have waited to make my post, but as requested I will fill in a bunch of Blanks..

 

First off is Geocaching a pay to play sport/site? I think not but it seems with all these little camel noses happening it is forcing it that way.

 

Ok I can see asking for money to get a Icon ie coins and travel bugs.

asking for money to get additional search features such as PQ's.

but with the mutation of PM caches it becoming more of a pay to play.

 

anyone who creates an account can find a cache using the search features. If a PM hides a cache making it PMO it still shows to us regular folk, cant see the page but can see and find the location, as I have personally done for each of the caches that show. I have noticed as of late that they have been excluded doing a geocaching/google maps search but can be seen in the caches nearby link. I am sure that the we want more money crowd is working to fix that as well, just like closing the back door. Oh yeah don't let the cold air out..

 

Is Geocaching a pay to play??

 

What is the saying about the camels nose??? Connect the dots folks paying a fee to find/log a cache should never become mandatory...the end of free caching...

 

Not trying to be a wisenheimer, but you're a little late. MOC's came out in 2002, if I'm not mistaken. This has been discussed several times. It was actually much more controversial back then, and for a couple of years after. Now when these threads come up, it's about 95+% in favor of the MOC's.

 

Hardly anyone is going to see it, or respond to it in this section of the forums. You could request the thread be moved. Then again, you might not want to do that.

[+scuba dude]

The idea of paying more to play more seems silly to me. Maybe someday when I get bored of finding the caches in my area I will upgrade, but for now I love it.

 

It is easy, active, and fun. I could careless about being the FTF or anything that the premium members get. However I fear having paying in the future.

 

The only real benefit that premium members get is the ease of loading multiple caches through the pocket query feature. The publishing notification is of use to some not certainly not all.

 

I'm glad you like using the CG website, so do I, so I pay a tiny amount to help it stay around. I seriously doubt anyone is getting anywhere close to "rich" from our premium membership accounts. I would personally like to see this go to strictly pay-to-play system. I think it would cut down on a lot of useless micro-spew that has become so common. It would also cut out most of cache maggots.

[yougogirl64]

Yikes.....what are cache maggots

[+Crow-T-Robot]

The idea of paying more to play more seems silly to me

 

I think the overwhelming majority of premium members pay the cost to have access to pocket queries and notifications when a new cache is published, not so that they can seek out PMO caches. I'm sure I've found some members only caches but I couldn't tell you what ones they are/were. I'm not a FTF hound, either, but I do like getting an email whenever a new cache is published locally.

 

Yikes.....what are cache maggots

 

A cache maggot is anyone who finds caches with the intent of vandalizing and/or stealing them. Usually, a cache maggot is NOT a premium member, hence why some cache owners make their caches MOC's...to keep the maggots from being able to find it.

 

Bruce

Edited January 22, 2009 by Bassanio

[+BlueDeuce]

oh, nevermind.

Edited January 22, 2009 by BlueDeuce

[Mr.Yuck]

The idea of paying more to play more seems silly to me. Maybe someday when I get bored of finding the caches in my area I will upgrade, but for now I love it.

 

It is easy, active, and fun. I could careless about being the FTF or anything that the premium members get. However I fear having paying in the future.

 

The only real benefit that premium members get is the ease of loading multiple caches through the pocket query feature. The publishing notification is of use to some not certainly not all.

 

I'm glad you like using the CG website, so do I, so I pay a tiny amount to help it stay around. I seriously doubt anyone is getting anywhere close to "rich" from our premium membership accounts. I would personally like to see this go to strictly pay-to-play system. I think it would cut down on a lot of useless micro-spew that has become so common. It would also cut out most of cache maggots.

 

In the 157 threads on this subject since 2002 (I just made up 157), it's become quite apparent that cache maggots were the reason MOC's were created. That's why they have an audit log too, so people can have their web surfing privacy violated, and be unjustly accused of stealing caches or geocoins.

 

I disagree 100%! Pay-to-play would absolutely not cut down on "micro spew". I've yet to see a numbers hound who isn't a premium member. I'd dare say 90+% of parking lot micros in my area were hidden by premium members.

 

HEY I finally figured out what the OP meant in the OP. It sounds like he was trying to use the long-known loophole to log an MOC as a non-premium member, and it didn't work. If your still reading this, the loophole is just broken, and they've promised to fix it.

Edited January 23, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+sullude]

I've paid my 30 dollars for the year. It made sense to me sense I have about 50 PM cache in around a 10 mile radius. With time and gas at a premium it was just cost effective to do. I just broke it down $30 a year is $2.50 month. Man can you think of all the crap in one month that we blow $2.50 on.

Half a pack of ciggs.

Not even a Starbucks or even the new McD's hot chocolate that is the same as the old one but in a new cup.

Stupid things to put in a cache from the dollar store.

Half of a TB

1/4 of a coin

A crap cache container that is so thin that if a bunny pees on it, it will get a hole in it.

1/3 of a roll of camo tape, yes people found 1002 uses for it, to camo a pill bottle for caching

Well now little over a gallon of gas

Your kids hot meal lunch at school, help stop obese in child in the US, go pay for caching

1003 way for camo duck tape to repair the hole in that crap thin container that the bunny peed on

1/10 of your copay for twisting your ankle while caching

1/4 of the cost of flowers because the wife is pissed you went caching instead of __________ ya some of you know what to put in there

1/25 of the cost of dinner with the wife when the flower didn't work again for caching when you should have been doing ____________

1/1000 of the cost of the bid D and I don't mean Dallas and child support and attorney cost ( well you were going to be the 3 out of 4 divorced anyway you should have fun getting there )

Any way just saying, if it did come to paying it's not that big of thing. Ya maybe they should be like the crack dealer and give you a couple time free then start charging you, and you find yourself in a corner shaking and sweating just for your next cache. Then you take the batteries out of you remote because your GPS is dead, then all your don't have money for AA's then you go to friends and family and start stealing batteries from their remote. dam them, dam them for starting Geocaching.

Edited February 8, 2009 by sullude

[rapriebe]

$30 a year, it isn't mandatory and people are complaining? Amazing! I don't even have one find yet, but I paid for the premium membership. I just wanted to be able to spend a bit of time before I get the chance to do some real hunting and learn how to use the features. It has been a profitable experience so far, as I've learned how to run a PQ, how to load and filter it in GSAK, how to modify it for paperless in my Nuvi and load the matching waypoints in my eTrex. All in the 4 days since my eTrex arrived.

 

For $2.50 a month it's a bargain. You pay more than that for a fast food burger.

[+do not resuscitate]

I live in the city and am an urban cacher. While most urban caches can be mundane, there are those who put a lot of effort (and cost) into making and placing unique, creative hides. These hiders will make it a PMO cache to keep newbies from comprimising the cache and causing it to be muggled. Nothing disrespectful towards newbies, but the more caches you have found the more stealthy you learn to be.

[+iamgillespie]

I guess this goes to the point and had I not been on the phone with a fellow cacher searching for a cache would not have seen a cache post so I went for a FTF, I should have waited to make my post, but as requested I will fill in a bunch of Blanks..

 

First off is Geocaching a pay to play sport/site? I think not but it seems with all these little camel noses happening it is forcing it that way.

 

Ok I can see asking for money to get a Icon ie coins and travel bugs.

asking for money to get additional search features such as PQ's.

but with the mutation of PM caches it becoming more of a pay to play.

 

anyone who creates an account can find a cache using the search features. If a PM hides a cache making it PMO it still shows to us regular folk, cant see the page but can see and find the location, as I have personally done for each of the caches that show. I have noticed as of late that they have been excluded doing a geocaching/google maps search but can be seen in the caches nearby link. I am sure that the we want more money crowd is working to fix that as well, just like closing the back door. Oh yeah don't let the cold air out..

 

Is Geocaching a pay to play??

 

What is the saying about the camels nose??? Connect the dots folks paying a fee to find/log a cache should never become mandatory...the end of free caching...

 

Are you a socialist?

[+gdpsych]

In my area (SWPA in the fayettecong area which is FayetteNam) I haven't stumbled across any PMO caches. I used to be a free member (I said member ) but I moved on to Premium membership for the benefits of PQ's and route queries. PMO caches are what they are. Seriously, it's less then $3 a month; if your not willing to pay that maybe you should move on to another hobby. They're also MANY caches not even listed on Geocaching.com

[MikeB3542]

I guess this goes to the point and had I not been on the phone with a fellow cacher searching for a cache would not have seen a cache post so I went for a FTF, I should have waited to make my post, but as requested I will fill in a bunch of Blanks..

 

First off is Geocaching a pay to play sport/site? I think not but it seems with all these little camel noses happening it is forcing it that way.

 

Ok I can see asking for money to get a Icon ie coins and travel bugs.

asking for money to get additional search features such as PQ's.

but with the mutation of PM caches it becoming more of a pay to play.

 

anyone who creates an account can find a cache using the search features. If a PM hides a cache making it PMO it still shows to us regular folk, cant see the page but can see and find the location, as I have personally done for each of the caches that show. I have noticed as of late that they have been excluded doing a geocaching/google maps search but can be seen in the caches nearby link. I am sure that the we want more money crowd is working to fix that as well, just like closing the back door. Oh yeah don't let the cold air out..

 

Is Geocaching a pay to play??

 

What is the saying about the camels nose??? Connect the dots folks paying a fee to find/log a cache should never become mandatory...the end of free caching...

 

Are you a socialist?

Most ridiculous exchange ever!

 

For Groundspeak to keep this all going, they are going to need funds. As I see it, those funds come from two, maybe three sources. First is advertising. Maybe you missed it, but notice all those little ads on the screens? Yup, someone paid money for those to appear there, in hopes that you would spend money and patronize their businesses. Hmmm, no Bolsheviks in sight yet!

 

Second is premium memberships. This has always felt less like a cable bill and more like the $50 you give to your local public TV station to get your Andrea Bocelli DVD. It makes you feel good, and you get some nice perks.

 

Third (my guess is that this is a pretty small fraction) is merchandise and licensing.

 

Does watching broadcast ("free") television make you a socialist? Of course not. But just like broadcast tv, geocaching is not, and never has been free. The reality is that even if you aren't paying for a premium membership, your eyeballs are in fact helping Groundspeak pay the bills.

 

There just aren't that many PMO caches (at least in my neck of the woods) for this to be a huge issue. It actually is to the benefit of Groundspeak to limit PMO caches a bit -- the non-PMO's are the gateway that gets new cachers involved. Theoretically, if you had an area with nothing but PMO caches, my guess is that it would be a stagnant and declining area for geocaching.

[+PorscheSpyder]

Originally I only got a basic membership because I didn't want a Premium until I had tried out cachin'. I like caching so much though, that I decided to to go ahead and buy a Premium membership. I think its fair to pay $30/year for a few extra caches plus some other cool features.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Most ridiculous exchange ever!

 

For Groundspeak to keep this all going, they are going to need funds. As I see it, those funds come from two, maybe three sources. First is advertising. Maybe you missed it, but notice all those little ads on the screens? Yup, someone paid money for those to appear there, in hopes that you would spend money and patronize their businesses. Hmmm, no Bolsheviks in sight yet!

 

Second is premium memberships. This has always felt less like a cable bill and more like the $50 you give to your local public TV station to get your Andrea Bocelli DVD. It makes you feel good, and you get some nice perks.

 

Third (my guess is that this is a pretty small fraction) is merchandise and licensing.

 

Does watching broadcast ("free") television make you a socialist? Of course not. But just like broadcast tv, geocaching is not, and never has been free. The reality is that even if you aren't paying for a premium membership, your eyeballs are in fact helping Groundspeak pay the bills.

 

There just aren't that many PMO caches (at least in my neck of the woods) for this to be a huge issue. It actually is to the benefit of Groundspeak to limit PMO caches a bit -- the non-PMO's are the gateway that gets new cachers involved. Theoretically, if you had an area with nothing but PMO caches, my guess is that it would be a stagnant and declining area for geocaching.

 

You've missed a major source of boatloads of revenue: trackable items. The sale of Travel Bug Dog Tags at $5.95 a pop, and they also make a couple of dollars on every single trackable at geocaching.com geocoin ever produced. This cost is of course hidden to you if you were to plop down $10 at oakcoins.com or any other website where you can buy geocoins. Anyone who ever went out to a vendor and had their own custom geocoins produced knows this though. Yes, of course I do realize there is the cost involved of the upkeep of a large, ever expanding tracking system on the website.

 

I've never had a problem with people (and there are many) who bemoan the loss of "free geocaching". Geocaching was invented on the internet (usenet, more specifically) for free. There are two U.S. based alternative Geocaching websites who have pledged to be forever free (they both accept Pay Pal donations). But if you want the worlds largest database of caches, that makes those other two websites a pimple on this websites butt, you're going to have to get it from a privately owned for profit company (Groundspeak, Inc.)

[CLV3]

 

Most ridiculous exchange ever!

 

For Groundspeak to keep this all going, they are going to need funds. As I see it, those funds come from two, maybe three sources. First is advertising. Maybe you missed it, but notice all those little ads on the screens? Yup, someone paid money for those to appear there, in hopes that you would spend money and patronize their businesses. Hmmm, no Bolsheviks in sight yet!

 

Second is premium memberships. This has always felt less like a cable bill and more like the $50 you give to your local public TV station to get your Andrea Bocelli DVD. It makes you feel good, and you get some nice perks.

 

Third (my guess is that this is a pretty small fraction) is merchandise and licensing.

 

Does watching broadcast ("free") television make you a socialist? Of course not. But just like broadcast tv, geocaching is not, and never has been free. The reality is that even if you aren't paying for a premium membership, your eyeballs are in fact helping Groundspeak pay the bills.

 

There just aren't that many PMO caches (at least in my neck of the woods) for this to be a huge issue. It actually is to the benefit of Groundspeak to limit PMO caches a bit -- the non-PMO's are the gateway that gets new cachers involved. Theoretically, if you had an area with nothing but PMO caches, my guess is that it would be a stagnant and declining area for geocaching.

 

You've missed a major source of boatloads of revenue: trackable items. The sale of Travel Bug Dog Tags at $5.95 a pop, and they also make a couple of dollars on every single trackable at geocaching.com geocoin ever produced. This cost is of course hidden to you if you were to plop down $10 at oakcoins.com or any other website where you can buy geocoins. Anyone who ever went out to a vendor and had their own custom geocoins produced knows this though. Yes, of course I do realize there is the cost involved of the upkeep of a large, ever expanding tracking system on the website.

 

I've never had a problem with people (and there are many) who bemoan the loss of "free geocaching". Geocaching was invented on the internet (usenet, more specifically) for free. There are two U.S. based alternative Geocaching websites who have pledged to be forever free (they both accept Pay Pal donations). But if you want the worlds largest database of caches, that makes those other two websites a pimple on this websites butt, you're going to have to get it from a privately owned for profit company (Groundspeak, Inc.)

 

The point is that you do not HAVE to pay to use this site. The majority of caches are free to find. You can use the forums for free. You can still hide them for free. Yes, they sell products to enhance the experience. Yes, they have additional services for paying members. Yes people CAN make a chache they hide for premium members only. Yes they make a profit, who cares?

 

Is there anything WRONG with someone making a profit off something that so many people seem to enjoy?

 

The way it is now is people can choose how much they want to get into it and to what level they want to contribute. When people hide a cache, they contribute. When people become paying members, they contribute. When people post on the forums, they contribute.

 

Free caching is not coming to an end, nobodoy is making anyone become a premium member.

 

However, as a note, I AM and I think it is worth it. (My premium membership is on another account, Team V3).

[+PorscheSpyder]

 

Most ridiculous exchange ever!

 

For Groundspeak to keep this all going, they are going to need funds. As I see it, those funds come from two, maybe three sources. First is advertising. Maybe you missed it, but notice all those little ads on the screens? Yup, someone paid money for those to appear there, in hopes that you would spend money and patronize their businesses. Hmmm, no Bolsheviks in sight yet!

 

Second is premium memberships. This has always felt less like a cable bill and more like the $50 you give to your local public TV station to get your Andrea Bocelli DVD. It makes you feel good, and you get some nice perks.

 

Third (my guess is that this is a pretty small fraction) is merchandise and licensing.

 

Does watching broadcast ("free") television make you a socialist? Of course not. But just like broadcast tv, geocaching is not, and never has been free. The reality is that even if you aren't paying for a premium membership, your eyeballs are in fact helping Groundspeak pay the bills.

 

There just aren't that many PMO caches (at least in my neck of the woods) for this to be a huge issue. It actually is to the benefit of Groundspeak to limit PMO caches a bit -- the non-PMO's are the gateway that gets new cachers involved. Theoretically, if you had an area with nothing but PMO caches, my guess is that it would be a stagnant and declining area for geocaching.

 

You've missed a major source of boatloads of revenue: trackable items. The sale of Travel Bug Dog Tags at $5.95 a pop, and they also make a couple of dollars on every single trackable at geocaching.com geocoin ever produced. This cost is of course hidden to you if you were to plop down $10 at oakcoins.com or any other website where you can buy geocoins. Anyone who ever went out to a vendor and had their own custom geocoins produced knows this though. Yes, of course I do realize there is the cost involved of the upkeep of a large, ever expanding tracking system on the website.

 

I've never had a problem with people (and there are many) who bemoan the loss of "free geocaching". Geocaching was invented on the internet (usenet, more specifically) for free. There are two U.S. based alternative Geocaching websites who have pledged to be forever free (they both accept Pay Pal donations). But if you want the worlds largest database of caches, that makes those other two websites a pimple on this websites butt, you're going to have to get it from a privately owned for profit company (Groundspeak, Inc.)

 

The point is that you do not HAVE to pay to use this site. The majority of caches are free to find. You can use the forums for free. You can still hide them for free. Yes, they sell products to enhance the experience. Yes, they have additional services for paying members. Yes people CAN make a chache they hide for premium members only. Yes they make a profit, who cares?

 

Is there anything WRONG with someone making a profit off something that so many people seem to enjoy?

 

The way it is now is people can choose how much they want to get into it and to what level they want to contribute. When people hide a cache, they contribute. When people become paying members, they contribute. When people post on the forums, they contribute.

 

Free caching is not coming to an end, nobodoy is making anyone become a premium member.

 

However, as a note, I AM and I think it is worth it. (My premium membership is on another account, Team V3).

 

Well said, man! I agree with you 100%!

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Most ridiculous exchange ever!

 

For Groundspeak to keep this all going, they are going to need funds. As I see it, those funds come from two, maybe three sources. First is advertising. Maybe you missed it, but notice all those little ads on the screens? Yup, someone paid money for those to appear there, in hopes that you would spend money and patronize their businesses. Hmmm, no Bolsheviks in sight yet!

 

Second is premium memberships. This has always felt less like a cable bill and more like the $50 you give to your local public TV station to get your Andrea Bocelli DVD. It makes you feel good, and you get some nice perks.

 

Third (my guess is that this is a pretty small fraction) is merchandise and licensing.

 

Does watching broadcast ("free") television make you a socialist? Of course not. But just like broadcast tv, geocaching is not, and never has been free. The reality is that even if you aren't paying for a premium membership, your eyeballs are in fact helping Groundspeak pay the bills.

 

There just aren't that many PMO caches (at least in my neck of the woods) for this to be a huge issue. It actually is to the benefit of Groundspeak to limit PMO caches a bit -- the non-PMO's are the gateway that gets new cachers involved. Theoretically, if you had an area with nothing but PMO caches, my guess is that it would be a stagnant and declining area for geocaching.

 

You've missed a major source of boatloads of revenue: trackable items. The sale of Travel Bug Dog Tags at $5.95 a pop, and they also make a couple of dollars on every single trackable at geocaching.com geocoin ever produced. This cost is of course hidden to you if you were to plop down $10 at oakcoins.com or any other website where you can buy geocoins. Anyone who ever went out to a vendor and had their own custom geocoins produced knows this though. Yes, of course I do realize there is the cost involved of the upkeep of a large, ever expanding tracking system on the website.

 

I've never had a problem with people (and there are many) who bemoan the loss of "free geocaching". Geocaching was invented on the internet (usenet, more specifically) for free. There are two U.S. based alternative Geocaching websites who have pledged to be forever free (they both accept Pay Pal donations). But if you want the worlds largest database of caches, that makes those other two websites a pimple on this websites butt, you're going to have to get it from a privately owned for profit company (Groundspeak, Inc.)

 

The point is that you do not HAVE to pay to use this site. The majority of caches are free to find. You can use the forums for free. You can still hide them for free. Yes, they sell products to enhance the experience. Yes, they have additional services for paying members. Yes people CAN make a chache they hide for premium members only. Yes they make a profit, who cares?

 

Is there anything WRONG with someone making a profit off something that so many people seem to enjoy?

 

Of course you don't have to pay. The "enhanced features for paying members" model is all over the internet. Better features for free email accounts. Enhanced features and no commercials for internet radio stations. Extra space for free websites. I could go on. Geocaching.com didn't invent this idea, they thought it was a good idea and went with it. No I don't think there is anything wrong with them making a profit, I pay up, as you can see. I just said I can understand where people are coming from who do have a problem with it. Especially some of the early pioneers of Geocaching. The guy who invented Geocaching itself? Gone forever, not coming back. The guy who invented the word Geocaching? (it wasn't originally known as Geocaching). Gone forever, not coming back.

 

The way it is now is people can choose how much they want to get into it and to what level they want to contribute. When people hide a cache, they contribute. When people become paying members, they contribute. When people post on the forums, they contribute.

 

Free caching is not coming to an end, nobodoy is making anyone become a premium member.

 

Oh yeah, the pesky title of this thread. The Original poster is long gone, but I'm sure he was talking just about Premium member only caches. When some people get all worked up over "paying to play", they are almost always referring to member only caches specifically. He seemed upset that the long-known work around for non-premium members to log these caches was closed. But in reality, it was just broken, and he posted the whole thing in the wrong forum.

[+kdnydnr]

Ok so I'm new here and maybe I should keep my mouth shut but that's just not my personality....

 

Right now I'm a free member and aside from gas in our van we have had more hours of family fun this month than the past couple years. Geocaching is something we ALL enjoy. The boys, the girls, and even my wife.

 

We have 5 kids, so if we went to the movies for an overated hour and a half of entertainment this would be the breakdown:

 

2 Adults @ 7.50 = 15.00

5 kids @ 5.00 = 25.00

7 sodas (no one can share) = 21.00

Candy = at least 10.00

Popcorn = 10.00

 

So we have a total of 81.00 lots of arguing, at least 3 kids being told 500 times to be quiet, a sugar high, and greesy fingers.

 

Those same 7 people Geocaching since April 4, 2009:

 

Enjoying nature = FREE

Geocaching. Com = FREE

53 caches we've found = FREE

Instead of 1.5 hours, try 25 plus hours = FREE

Bonding while having healthy, exciting, competitive fun = FREE

 

Some people just aren't happy unless they're complaining. Will I pay for a Premium Membership? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I need to? NO, we could have hundreds of hours more finding FREE caches, but I want to support the game that has drawn my family closer together.

 

In the words of Mastercard:

 

Movies, expensive.

Dinner, expensive.

Toys, expensive.

Time with the family Geocaching, PRICELESS!!!

[+iamgillespie]

I guess this goes to the point and had I not been on the phone with a fellow cacher searching for a cache would not have seen a cache post so I went for a FTF, I should have waited to make my post, but as requested I will fill in a bunch of Blanks..

 

First off is Geocaching a pay to play sport/site? I think not but it seems with all these little camel noses happening it is forcing it that way.

 

Ok I can see asking for money to get a Icon ie coins and travel bugs.

asking for money to get additional search features such as PQ's.

but with the mutation of PM caches it becoming more of a pay to play.

 

anyone who creates an account can find a cache using the search features. If a PM hides a cache making it PMO it still shows to us regular folk, cant see the page but can see and find the location, as I have personally done for each of the caches that show. I have noticed as of late that they have been excluded doing a geocaching/google maps search but can be seen in the caches nearby link. I am sure that the we want more money crowd is working to fix that as well, just like closing the back door. Oh yeah don't let the cold air out..

 

Is Geocaching a pay to play??

 

What is the saying about the camels nose??? Connect the dots folks paying a fee to find/log a cache should never become mandatory...the end of free caching...

 

Are you a socialist?

Most ridiculous exchange ever!

 

For Groundspeak to keep this all going, they are going to need funds. As I see it, those funds come from two, maybe three sources. First is advertising. Maybe you missed it, but notice all those little ads on the screens? Yup, someone paid money for those to appear there, in hopes that you would spend money and patronize their businesses. Hmmm, no Bolsheviks in sight yet!

 

Second is premium memberships. This has always felt less like a cable bill and more like the $50 you give to your local public TV station to get your Andrea Bocelli DVD. It makes you feel good, and you get some nice perks.

 

Third (my guess is that this is a pretty small fraction) is merchandise and licensing.

 

Does watching broadcast ("free") television make you a socialist? Of course not. But just like broadcast tv, geocaching is not, and never has been free. The reality is that even if you aren't paying for a premium membership, your eyeballs are in fact helping Groundspeak pay the bills.

 

There just aren't that many PMO caches (at least in my neck of the woods) for this to be a huge issue. It actually is to the benefit of Groundspeak to limit PMO caches a bit -- the non-PMO's are the gateway that gets new cachers involved. Theoretically, if you had an area with nothing but PMO caches, my guess is that it would be a stagnant and declining area for geocaching.

 

I don't see how it is so ridiculous. Maybe I should have narrowed the quote. He stated "paying a fee to find/log a cache should never become mandatory...the end of free caching..." and given how absolute he sounded about it I took it as a socialist mentality. That you should never have to pay for a service that someone is providing to you is just that kind of mentality as if Geocaching.com's services belong to the people and is some kind of God-given right. It was just a question. How else would you describe it?

[+Jeep4two]

Hmm.

 

I've got a GPSr that cost $150 (my new $400 unit is on the way). Why would I worry about the $2.50 monthly cost to access the Premium Member features of GC.com?

 

It's worth $2.50 to get Pocket Queries and the ability to instantly filter my search results. That kind of database development is expensive so I don't have a problem paying.

 

I see the PMO caches as a bonus to my Premium Membership.

 

The post above also points out that this sport has never been free. Ad support helps cover costs as does premium membership.

 

How many of you go to work every day without expecting to get paid? Not many I suspect. Expecting all the work that goes into this site to be done for free is a little ridiculous.

 

I propose that based on the popularity of this sport, that the owners of Geocaching.com and the folks at Groundspeak have been very genrous. The opportunity to capitalize on the explosive growth if this hobby exists on an extraordinary level. They could have easily started building a heavily fee based structure to their site and their services after developing the following they have. But they didn't. They offer some pretty basic features as 'add ons' for a nominal fee and supplement that with some of the specialty features of trackables and merchandising. I doubt anybody is getting rich but I do hope they are making a good living in exchange for their hard work, creativity and contribution to the lives of all the members (free and premium).

[Mr.Yuck]

Hmm.

 

I've got a GPSr that cost $150 (my new $400 unit is on the way). Why would I worry about the $2.50 monthly cost to access the Premium Member features of GC.com?

 

It's worth $2.50 to get Pocket Queries and the ability to instantly filter my search results. That kind of database development is expensive so I don't have a problem paying.

 

I see the PMO caches as a bonus to my Premium Membership.

 

The post above also points out that this sport has never been free. Ad support helps cover costs as does premium membership.

 

 

As always, people always seem to talk about all the features of a premium membership. I'm sure the OP is talking only about MOC's. So why do they have to have caches that only premium members can view? What if it wasn't one of the dozens of features of a premium membership? I know the answer, and why they started them. But what if they disappeared tomorrow? People like the OP wouldn't get all worked up.

 

I'll have to repeat myself again for those of you with the 07, 08, 09 etc. join dates. Your repeating that "this sport has never been free" is completely false. Many things on the internet are "free" (advertiser supported, usually). Of course I'm not talking about going down to the level of things like your electric bill to power your computer, or the cost of your ISP. Me, I had a GPS before I started Geocaching. Geocaching was invented by one guy on this usenet newsgroup Then after a little while of all the world's cache listings being in posts on a usenet newsgroup, all the cache listings in the world were available for free on this guys website. Then someone figured out they could buy the domain name Geocaching.com for $9.99 a year, and the rest is history.

Edited April 23, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel

[Mr.Yuck]

Double post, nothing to see here.

Edited April 22, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+Renegade Knight]

Yikes.....what are cache maggots

 

Dorkwads who's evil aspirations include feeding their megalomania by stealing your cache.

[+BillyB514]

if you can afford a GPS or a PDA you can spend 30$ a year to support geocaching

 

BB

 

..EDIT.... Or mabye you have 1000's of caches and are to cheap to spend 30$ a year for more smiles in you area LOL.... Just looked at your profile .. you big baby! you have been a member since 2002 and have never supported the site ?

Edited April 23, 2009 by BillyB514

[+gof1]