Changing a not found to a found.

[+bobandia]

I have several caches that I was not able to find and registered them as not found. After reviewing the not found caches, I noticed that almost all had disappeared and were archived. So, even though I really tried it was obviously not there can I go back and record a smiley? Does that take away the not found?

[jholly]

I have several caches that I was not able to find and registered them as not found. After reviewing the not found caches, I noticed that almost all had disappeared and were archived. So, even though I really tried it was obviously not there can I go back and record a smiley? Does that take away the not found?

 

Let me see if I understand this. You looked for a cache and did not find it. You filed a DNF that reflects your experience. DNF's can result from the cache being missing, the cache being in the wrong place, or your just not finding the cache. Now you figure since the cache is archived you get to get a smiley? Why didn't you just lie and instead of logging a DNF log a smiley? Then you wouldn't have to embarrass yourself publicly.

 

Jim

[+StarBrand]

You Did Not Find the cache. Really doesn't matter why. You came, you looked. No find.

 

You logged the DNF. What has that changed since then???

 

Find means you found it and signed the logbook inside.

[+webscouter.]

You could change the DNF to a Found, but then you would join the group that 31 pages of post think are cheating themselves.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...c=66648&hl=

[+briansnat]

You can do it. Not sure why you would want to though. A DNF is simply the result of your search. The reason is irrelevant.

[+bobandia]

I have several caches that I was not able to find and registered them as not found. After reviewing the not found caches, I noticed that almost all had disappeared and were archived. So, even though I really tried it was obviously not there can I go back and record a smiley? Does that take away the not found?

 

Let me see if I understand this. You looked for a cache and did not find it. You filed a DNF that reflects your experience. DNF's can result from the cache being missing, the cache being in the wrong place, or your just not finding the cache. Now you figure since the cache is archived you get to get a smiley? Why didn't you just lie and instead of logging a DNF log a smiley? Then you wouldn't have to embarrass yourself publicly.

 

Jim

Well Jim, for those who are not experts yet like you I guess to avoid being ridiculed for not understanding something it would be best not to use this forum. For clarification, I looked for a cache and did not find it, because it was missing. Several others had not found it as well so the owner archived it stating that indeed it was missing. In such a situation should I just put up a note or does it not matter in the world of geocaching wether you take a not found or not?

[+Isonzo Karst]

Hi bobandia -

I'm sorry (but not surprised) that your question has aroused some snarky responses.

 

Generally, the logs, Found It! and Did Not Find It! are meant to be taken literally. You didn't find it, and you still haven't, so the DNF log is appropriate and needs no editing.

 

However, your question suggests a notion of the log types as scoring based on cacher blame or effort.

Found it! = +1, DNF = -1. This is a common idea. And as a consequence of it, as you're not to blame for your DNFing the missing cache, perhaps the "score" should be altered from -1 to +1. Hence editing a DNF to a Found It!

 

This notion will be much ridiculed here, but, frankly, it's between the cacher and the cache owner. And it's not uncommon for cache owners to suggest or allow "finds" on missing caches.

 

As a cacher and as a person, I'm too literal to call not finding something the same as finding it. And I don't think of the logs as scores. They're just a reiteration of what actually happened. That's close to the majority view in these forums, but it's not the only view.

[+hukilaulau]

as noted above, there are different views. There was a missing cache once that several people looked for within a couple of days of it being confirmed as gone. Some posted DNF others posted notes saying they didn't want to post a dnf since it was gone (!?) and still others posted finds including one with this explanation in the log: "Can't post a DNF 'cause it wasn't there to be found!"

So three different types of logs on exactly the same situation. if you decide you want to claim a find on a cache that wasn't there, you should at least get permission from the cache owner.

[+hukilaulau]

Well, now I'm not really sure why you even asked since you decided to go ahead and take the smilie despite the feedback you got here. In fact, I think you set a new standard by claiming a find TWICE on a cache that wasn't there!

[+jhssearcher]

Like others have said, you hunted it DNF'd it, that is the end of that visit, doesn't matter if there or not you still hunted it, if you'd gone back and found it you would still have the DNF on there, they are good for fellow cachers who aren't sure if they want to attempt it ar not.

[+Colonial Cats]

Well, now I'm not really sure why you even asked since you decided to go ahead and take the smilie despite the feedback you got here. In fact, I think you set a new standard by claiming a find TWICE on a cache that wasn't there!

Yes, it is very bad form to take 2 smileys when you actually had 1 DNF and 1 find.

[+bobandia]

Well, now I'm not really sure why you even asked since you decided to go ahead and take the smilie despite the feedback you got here. In fact, I think you set a new standard by claiming a find TWICE on a cache that wasn't there!

Ok. This whole question came from one of the DNF that the owner told me to take a smiley because it was gone. That made me think, earlier yesterday, that perhaps that is what you are supposed to do. The particular cache you are looking at, I did attempt to change it, but used the wrong date and went in and put it in again to the correct date. Now I have three entries for the same cache and began wondering if there was some way of changing the find so that the DNF no longer shows. That was the moment that I decided to get some expert advice. It appears that most believe that it is a DNF and that in the scheme of things it does not really matter unless you care about percentages. Is there some reason to be concerned about percentages?

Also, this was my first time on the forum. Some of you guys who check it all the time may very weary of certain questions. However, this is a great sport and we are only getting started. Luckily I have thick skin. My concern is that many new to geocaching may not be and would be turned off by some of the glib and not so glib comments.

So to all who are moderating this forum, please play nice.

Thanks,

Bob

[+mndvs737]

OK -- here was my situation on 2 caches this past weekend:

 

On one of them, it's a micro at the end of a dirt road. Found a couple of "likely" hiding spots, but no cache. One of the hiding spots (which had been re-concealed) had A LOT (edit for wording) evidence of muggle activity inside, which was very odd. Logged a DNF, and emailed the cache owner separately so as not to give too many details away in the log. Based on what cache owner said, we were in the right spot, so cache is (most likely) gone. DNF is still a DNF -- we found the hiding spot, but not the cache.

 

The other one is a multi in a park -- after much searching for Stage 2, we realized our math was wrong, so we verified the numbers and headed to seach a new spot. Again, nothing -- logged the DNF (since Stage 2 is the FINAL, and we Did Not Find the cache). Since we left because park activity was picking up, I said in the log that we would avenge this one yet. I did go ahead and email the cache owner the clue we had gotten from Stage 1 to make sure if it was correct, or if we were reading something wrong (due to fading, etc.). He verified that we were correct in that, and asked if our search area was around "Item _______" in the park -- I told him it was, but we saw nothing on that item or in the surrounding vicinity. He is going to check on Stage 2 to verify it. If it is gone, DNF will still be a DNF.

Edited November 20, 2008 by mndvs737

[+FunnyNose]

I have several caches that I was not able to find and registered them as not found. After reviewing the not found caches, I noticed that almost all had disappeared and were archived. So, even though I really tried it was obviously not there can I go back and record a smiley? Does that take away the not found?

 

SIGH !! asks our advice then logs a find on a DNF not once but TWICE..

 

Good stuff to teach your kids..

 

Yet another item to add has been added to the "Found It = Didn't Find It" forum

[+J-Way]

To directly answer your original question, you can change a log type. From the cache page, click the link to edit the log, then change the drop-down menu, then hit submit changes. I use this method all the time if I'm logging my found caches but haven't completed all the requirements for ALR, Virtual, and Earthcaches. I log as a "Note" to preserve find order, then change it to a "Found It" later after I've completed all requirement (uploaded pictures, etc.).

 

The reason you got such snippy responses is that many people have VERY strong opinions about how they play the game, specifically the rules concerning what does and does not count as a "Find". Many of those people they think that YOU should play by THEIR rules. But unless they own the cache you are trying to find, they really have no say over how you log it.

 

Personally, I will not claim a find unless I actually found the cache and signed the log. I've had cache owners offer to allow me to change a DNF to a Found It after they confirmed the caches were missing, but I just thank them and do not accept the offer. I've emailed seekers on a puzzle/offset cache of mine allowing them to change to a "Found It" after I discovered a serious error in the clues, but they didn't take me up on the offer. If I were in your shoes I would NOT claim a find based on finding "a hook". I would wait until the owner fixed the cache and visit it again. If the cache was archived instead of fixed, then oh well, there are other caches out there.

 

The other issue with snarky replies is that you logged at least one of the caches as "Found It" twice. Each time you log a Found It it adds 1 to your find count. Multiple finds on the same cache count. Some people do this regularly (to claim credit for each stage of a multicache, to claim credit for temp caches hidden for events, or just to inflate their numbers). Other people think this is the third most evil and low-down thing a cacher can do. So not only do you have one extra Find for the double log, you have TWO extra Finds because you never even found the cache the first time. According to some people on this board you're less than scum.

 

Personally, I don't care. Oh, and welcome to the forums!

Edited November 20, 2008 by J-Way

[+Wild Thing 73]

If you don't sign and date the logbook, how can anyone take a "smiley" in good faith?

[+bobandia]

I have several caches that I was not able to find and registered them as not found. After reviewing the not found caches, I noticed that almost all had disappeared and were archived. So, even though I really tried it was obviously not there can I go back and record a smiley? Does that take away the not found?

 

SIGH !! asks our advice then logs a find on a DNF not once but TWICE..

 

Good stuff to teach your kids..

 

Yet another item to add has been added to the "Found It = Didn't Find It" forum

If you had taken the time to read all the words you would see that I entered the wrong date the first time. I also stated that I did not know how to change an entry.

Finally I asked everyone to play nice. When you answer a simple question this way you turn new geocachers off by your snotty replies.

I carry geocoins and such in my pocket so that I can promote the sport.

Thanks,

Bob

[+hukilaulau]

I understand now that you didn't intend to have two "found it" logs and just didn't know how to change a log. As stated in another reply, you can change any of your own logs by clicking the "edit" link. Hope that helps.

Edited November 20, 2008 by hukilaulau

[+bobandia]

I understand now that you didn't intend to have two "found it" logs and just didn't know how to change a log. As stated in another reply, you can change any of your own logs by clicking the "edit" link. Hope that helps.

Mahalo. I now understand and believe firmly that a DNF is just that and even if the owner says go ahead it is still a DNF. I will promote this line of thinking as well.

Bob

[+bobandia]

I understand now that you didn't intend to have two "found it" logs and just didn't know how to change a log. As stated in another reply, you can change any of your own logs by clicking the "edit" link. Hope that helps.

Mahalo. I now understand and believe firmly that a DNF is just that and even if the owner says go ahead it is still a DNF. I will promote this line of thinking as well.

Bob

[+artist2c]

Change... Change... Change

 

Apparently the theme is in all endevours.

 

Best of luck to you Bob... and welcome to the sport and the forum.

 

BTW... because we ....as a nation... voted to spread the wealth... I am sure some with several thousand finds won't mind giving a couple to the less fortunate. LOL

 

Thanks for the good humor... and enjoy your adventures.

[jholly]

burp

Edited November 21, 2008 by jholly

[jholly]

If you don't sign and date the logbook, how can anyone take a "smiley" in good faith?

 

bingo!

[+FunnyNose]

BTW... because we ....as a nation... voted to spread the wealth... I am sure some with several thousand finds won't mind giving a couple to the less fortunate. LOL

 

I have 579 DNFs you can have them all..

[+WRASTRO]

Well, now I'm not really sure why you even asked since you decided to go ahead and take the smilie despite the feedback you got here. In fact, I think you set a new standard by claiming a find TWICE on a cache that wasn't there!

Ok. This whole question came from one of the DNF that the owner told me to take a smiley because it was gone. That made me think, earlier yesterday, that perhaps that is what you are supposed to do. The particular cache you are looking at, I did attempt to change it, but used the wrong date and went in and put it in again to the correct date. Now I have three entries for the same cache and began wondering if there was some way of changing the find so that the DNF no longer shows. That was the moment that I decided to get some expert advice. It appears that most believe that it is a DNF and that in the scheme of things it does not really matter unless you care about percentages. Is there some reason to be concerned about percentages?

Also, this was my first time on the forum. Some of you guys who check it all the time may very weary of certain questions. However, this is a great sport and we are only getting started. Luckily I have thick skin. My concern is that many new to geocaching may not be and would be turned off by some of the glib and not so glib comments.

So to all who are moderating this forum, please play nice.

Thanks,

Bob

I am a little late to this topic but I will give my opinion regardless. If you did not find the cache and sign the log then you should not log a find, period. If the cache was there and you did not find it that is a DNF. If the cache was not there then you clearly could not find it so it would be a DNF. Searching for a cache that is not there does not qualify for a smiley under any circumstances, in my opinion. Maybe a note instead of a DNF but not a find. No bad juju. You searched. You did not find.

 

Please don't think poorly of the folks on this forum. We are mostly good natured cachers who are happy to help and answer questions. DNF "protocol" just seems to be one of the hot button issues that evokes some rather strongly worded responses.

[+briansnat]

BTW... because we ....as a nation... voted to spread the wealth... I am sure some with several thousand finds won't mind giving a couple to the less fortunate. LOL

 

I have 579 DNFs you can have them all..

 

There is actually someone who is worse at finding these things than me? I only have a measly 150 DNFs.

[+Trick or Treat]

I'm about a month and a half into this sport and still trying to get all the do's and don'ts. I've found two destroyed caches in my short time and while I can't say that I ever would log a found for simply looking for a cache, in both of these cases I took pictures and sent them in an email to the COs, not to ask for a smiley but to let them know that there might be an issue with their cache. Both wrote back thanking me and instructed me to log it as a found which I did. After reading this forum, as well as the link to the other, I have gone back and changed them both to a DNF. The cachers in my community have been welcoming and very helpful and while I haven't run across this particular issue on our local boards, if this thread is any indication of how many cachers feel, I'd rather just change it than deal with the potential suspicion and judgement.

[+WRASTRO]

I'm about a month and a half into this sport and still trying to get all the do's and don'ts. I've found two destroyed caches in my short time and while I can't say that I ever would log a found for simply looking for a cache, in both of these cases I took pictures and sent them in an email to the COs, not to ask for a smiley but to let them know that there might be an issue with their cache. Both wrote back thanking me and instructed me to log it as a found which I did. After reading this forum, as well as the link to the other, I have gone back and changed them both to a DNF. The cachers in my community have been welcoming and very helpful and while I haven't run across this particular issue on our local boards, if this thread is any indication of how many cachers feel, I'd rather just change it than deal with the potential suspicion and judgement.

I think the vast majority of cachers don't really care what you log as a find or a DNF. And I doubt that anyone will be looking through your online logs in order to make sure you are doing things the way they think is "right." Your find logs for the two destroyed caches are between you and the owners who gave you the ok to log them as finds. Don't worry about it.

[+tozainamboku]

I'm feel kinda bad that a question in the getting starting forum has turned to the difficult advance topic of "puritanism" and logging of caches.

 

For a beginner the answers is Yes you can change your DNF to a find, if it is OK with the cache owner.

 

In geocaching, "puritanism" (or sometimes "purism") is the stated belief that you must actually find a cache and sign the log in order to log a Found It online. Most people are probably "puritans" when it comes to their own logging, though there is no way to know the exact percentage. There are many people who use the Found It log in cases where a "puritan" would not. Example are: having no pen or other means to sign a log, finding a log that is full or in a condition that leaves it unsignable, finding a cache with no log in it, finding the remains of cache that was destroyed, not finding a cache but being told by the owner that since the cache was missing you can log it anyhow, logging bonus found it logs for performing a task set forth by the cache owner. And of course there are virtual caches and EarthCaches that have no logs that are claimed as find by sending answers to the owner or posting a picture.

 

Some geocachers promote "puritanism" as the only proper use of the online logs and are extremely critical of the use of the "found it" log for non-puritan purposes. Others feel that someone else's count has no effect on their enjoyment of geocaching and don't care what someone else does. There are long threads over in the Geocaching Topics section on whether the so called "bogus" log effects other cachers. It is a fascinating topic.

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

As still a newbie here I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries, but isn't caching suppose to be fun and an enjoyable activity? I love it and sure I like to see the smileys go up and don't like to see those DNFs; but is anyone so insecure that they feel having DNFs make them less of a cacher?

 

I know I got two right now and they eat at me. They are there (confirmed by talking to owners) but I just haven't been able to find them. I will, without a doubt I know I will because they present a challange to me, and it would be nice to see the DNFs disappear if I find the cache I had listed as DNF, but if not...who cares? It is going to take more for me to feel bad about myself than alot of DNFs in my profile. It is about having fun, loving the challenge and the sport than being worried about the size of your Found It counter.

[+Happy Humphrey]

...I now understand and believe firmly that a DNF is just that and even if the owner says go ahead it is still a DNF. I will promote this line of thinking as well.

Bob

Well done, and good for you that you persisted despite receiving less than civil treatment.

 

Yes, it's a game and there's no "competition" so you can do what you like if it has no effect on anyone else.

 

But by the same token, as it's not a competition; if you didn't find the cache, according to what you'd judge to be a common-sense definition of "find", then it's best to keep it simple and log a DNF. A "find" gets you no more credit or recognition than a DNF.

 

My own opinion of those that feel they should be "awarded" a find at any time is that they are just getting things out of proportion a little. They would be better off lightening up and accepting "defeat" nobly, however unfair that might seem on occasions.

[+briansnat]

quote name='Trick or Treat' post='3721358' date='Nov 21 2008, 10:50 AM']

I'm about a month and a half into this sport and still trying to get all the do's and don'ts. I've found two destroyed caches in my short time and while I can't say that I ever would log a found for simply looking for a cache, in both of these cases I took pictures and sent them in an email to the COs, not to ask for a smiley but to let them know that there might be an issue with their cache. Both wrote back thanking me and instructed me to log it as a found which I did. After reading this forum, as well as the link to the other, I have gone back and changed them both to a DNF. The cachers in my community have been welcoming and very helpful and while I haven't run across this particular issue on our local boards, if this thread is any indication of how many cachers feel, I'd rather just change it than deal with the potential suspicion and judgement.

 

That is a bit of a gray area. Some people say you need to sign the logbook to log a find. In a case like this where you found enough of the cache to be absolutely certain it was the cache (e.g. a shattered container with "geocaching.com" written on it), I don't think many people would give you grief over logging a find.

[4x4van]

As still a newbie here I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries, but isn't caching suppose to be fun and an enjoyable activity? I love it and sure I like to see the smileys go up and don't like to see those DNFs; but is anyone so insecure that they feel having DNFs make them less of a cacher?

 

I know I got two right now and they eat at me. They are there (confirmed by talking to owners) but I just haven't been able to find them. I will, without a doubt I know I will because they present a challange to me, and it would be nice to see the DNFs disappear if I find the cache I had listed as DNF, but if not...who cares? It is going to take more for me to feel bad about myself than alot of DNFs in my profile. It is about having fun, loving the challenge and the sport than being worried about the size of your Found It counter.

This is just my opinion, but I'm sure many here would agree, if and when you go back and find those caches, don't delete (or change) those DNF logs. Simply log a "Found it" for the new date. There are several reasons for this:

 

First, on that earlier date, you searched but didn't find it. That is a fact. The DNF log is a history of your caching experiences, and it shows that even if you were stumped the first time, you stuck with it and eventually earned the smiley.

Second, that DNF is also a part of the cache's history. Many people like to look back through the logs of some of their favorite or memorable finds to see how the cache experience has unfolded for other cachers.

Third, cache owners also frequently look back over the logs to see the same thing. Deleting a DNF, IMO, alters the true history of both the cache and the cacher.

Finally, DNFs don't show up on your profile page, so you are the only one who can actually see them anyway, when you list all of your logs. Others can only see your DNF if they are reading the actual cache page logs.

 

DNFs are not a badge of shame. They are simply the truth.

Edited November 23, 2008 by 4x4van

[+Colonial Cats]

As still a newbie here I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries, but isn't caching suppose to be fun and an enjoyable activity? I love it and sure I like to see the smileys go up and don't like to see those DNFs; but is anyone so insecure that they feel having DNFs make them less of a cacher?

 

I know I got two right now and they eat at me. They are there (confirmed by talking to owners) but I just haven't been able to find them. I will, without a doubt I know I will because they present a challange to me, and it would be nice to see the DNFs disappear if I find the cache I had listed as DNF, but if not...who cares? It is going to take more for me to feel bad about myself than alot of DNFs in my profile. It is about having fun, loving the challenge and the sport than being worried about the size of your Found It counter.

This is just my opinion, but I'm sure many here would agree, if and when you go back and find those caches, don't delete (or change) those DNF logs. Simply log a "Found it" for the new date. There are several reasons for this:

 

First, on that earlier date, you searched but didn't find it. That is a fact. The DNF log is a history of your caching experiences, and it shows that even if you were stumped the first time, you stuck with it and eventually earned the smiley.

Second, that DNF is also a part of the cache's history. Many people like to look back through the logs of some of their favorite or memorable finds to see how the cache experience has unfolded for other cachers. Third, cache owners also frequently look back over the logs to see the same thing. Deleting a DNF, IMO, alters the true history of both the cache and the cacher.

Finally, DNFs don't show up on your profile page, so you are the only one who can actually see them anyway, when you list all of your logs. Others can only see your DNF if they are reading the actual cache page logs.

 

DNFs are not a badge of shame. They are simply the truth.

I totally agree. A find is not put in a win column and a DNF is not put in a loss column. It's just a matter of the Cache's history. I know it's not easy sometimes. There is a 1/1 out there that we could not find! It was a little hard to admit.

[+CachinSpree]

I have only been caching for about a month now. The way I see it, is a find is a find and DNF is a DNF. Read my logs on this one (GCR73X). I typed in the wrong coordinates the first time and found it later using the right coordinates. Go figure. I logged a DNF last week due to bees at ground zero (GC1EYFA). I'm not too worried about percentages. To me, it's all about spending time with the family. just out of curiosity, where do I find my percentages? Thanks - 69rrvert

Edited November 30, 2008 by 69rrvert