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Removing coin icon from cache page - the pros/cons


ThePetersTrio
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As a coin buyer I would assume that the extra $$$'d in getting the custom icon is passed on to us. I usually see that custom icons are done when coins pre-sold reach 250 or more which, to me, means the profits are worth having it done. I have never until this thread, seen this as an ego thing by coinmakers??? But I am farily new at this so I guess I always thought the individual icon was for the buyers/finders/discoverer's of the coin to show how many different coins they have discovered. Maybe I am wrong....

I suppose that in the end it could be said that those who buy my coin will bear the cost of the Icon, but The sale price was set based on the minting cost, and would have been the same even if I didn't pay the extra for the Icon(not having it's own was seriously considered). In my case I did not make these coins for a profit, but rather to spread the word of Bike Safety, and the Icon paired with the name is intended to draw someone over to click and see what the mesage is. My intent is to have the

 

f05dc0fd-9492-4d7d-9c79-3c2ccb568e62.jpg Look Twice GeoCoin....(Icon subject to change)

 

Actually draw people's curiosity and get them to LOOK at the Coins page and see the message. Of course My NEXT Icon will be all about ego(really, it will...I just want to see my "R" everywhere).

 

I think the best Idea I've seen so far is to allow the OWNER of a Trackable to "Hide" the icon from display on Cache pages. At least then it will be up to the one who payed for it. this option could be turned on/off sinply by editing the Bug/Coin page.

 

It could easily be programed to still alert a CACHE owner that a Coin/Bug was dropped, but not alert anyone else. There may still be Cache Owners who are the thieves, but probably not many.

 

I havent seen a contract for what you get when you buy an Icon, but I'd guess that many(Makers and Owners) would feel cheated if they suddenly stopped apearing in one of the places they were sold to apear in.

 

For example, if one were suddenly told that trackables would no longer be trackable in Events, one might be a little peeved.

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Then, correct me if I'm wrong, coins and icons are not the same thing as travel bugs.

I don't understand the question.

 

In context to this thread and your posting, when did travel bugs have an issue with icons and coin releases that it will matter when people stop having coins made, or buying Icons?

 

Apparently it does matter in regards to coins.

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I guess I always thought the individual icon was for the buyers/finders/discoverer's of the coin to show how many different coins they have discovered.

I think that's half of what an Icon is supposed to do. The other half is to show what Coins are in a Cache

Hey believe me, I'm not trying to be catty or anything :) "Too bad for us, since there will always be enough new people interested in the game, that what's healthy for the game itself will not matter. I guess it will matter when people stop having coins made, or buying Icons:" Wow! Enough said I guess :D I do love spending a lot of my money on coins, maybe not so smart on my part....

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In context to this thread and your posting, when did travel bugs have an issue with icons and coin releases that it will matter when people stop having coins made, or buying Icons?

 

Apparently it does matter in regards to coins.

Oh, I mean that if theft becomes so bad that it's not worth an investment to have coins made to release. While on the one hand, Coins are released and I say goodbye to them. On the other hand, if it gets to the point that 50, 60, or 70 percent of them dissapear in only a move or two, then people will not be buying them anymore (or at least not buying trackables).

 

There have been times where I was very close to just giving up on the idea of sending out travelers. If too many people get to that point, then GS will have a big drop in income (I guess, since I don't know anything about the finances there)

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Yeah, if anything one problem with coins is that they are cool and shiny, and I don't even consider that the best things about them. For example, Tribute and signature coins have been both heartfelt and artistic. No doubt about that whatsoever.

 

However I don't like putting restrictions or options on travel bugs that only came about because of coin issues. There are differences.

 

Edit: added 'For example'

Edited by BlueDeuce
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I'm just quoting myself from another thread, because it has a bearing on my views in this thread

I guess I'm just :D , since BOTH of the GW VI coins that I sent out to travel (in my own Cache :lol: ) went missing without ever getting logged :lol::lol::)

 

 

I guess what really gets to me is that I've spent nearly a thousand dollars in just over a year, on things to just give away to all takers(about 75 coins, and 75 TBs so far), but someone saw it best to just TAKE the ones I left out for travel. Heck, I even gave away about 5 of those very coins, but I guess that's just not enough.

 

I love to share, and I don't ask anything in return for all the prizes I like to give, but is it too much to ask that the ones I intended to travel remain out there(for more than one person to enjoy)?

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Yeah, if anything one problem with coins is that they are cool and shiny, and I don't even consider that the best things about them. For example, Tribute and signature coins have been both heartfelt and artistic. No doubt about that whatsoever.

 

However I don't like putting restrictions or options on travel bugs that only came about because of coin issues. There are differences.

 

Edit: added 'For example'

OK, I see. So if anything is implemented for this problem, it should not affect TBs. I can see that, since I don't think the problem of theft is as bad with TBs. They're all the same (tags). So maybe the problem is of our own making, there are so many different Coins out there, but so few of each one, that they are just that much more prized.

 

The biggest thing I've never understood, is how anyone can take enjoyment out of possesing a thing that they know does not belong to them(even beyond GeoCoins). Maybe it is ignorance after all.

 

edit to add...Maybe I should design a Coin that no one would want to steal. Then we may see if it's theft, or just lack of logging. Don't steal my idea now..."Rusty Washer GeoCoin"

Edited by WRITE SHOP ROBERT
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Yeah, if anything one problem with coins is that they are cool and shiny, and I don't even consider that the best things about them. For example, Tribute and signature coins have been both heartfelt and artistic. No doubt about that whatsoever.

 

However I don't like putting restrictions or options on travel bugs that only came about because of coin issues. There are differences.

 

Edit: added 'For example'

oK, I see. So if anything is implemented for this problem, it should not affect TBs. I can see that, since I don't thing the problem of theft is as bad with TBs. they're all the same (tags). So maybe the problem is of our own making, there are so many different Coins out there, but so few of each one, that they are just that much more prized.

 

The biggest thing I've never understood, is how anyone can take enjoyment out of possesing a thing that they know does not belong to them(even beyond GeoCoins). Maybe it is ignorance after all.

 

Yes, and there is definitely a need to discuss ideas to keep both coins and TBs in circulation.

 

Edited for clarification.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Oh, I know, and I hope nothing I've said has been misunderstood. I think the problem has two roots...

 

 

1. The coins are just too rare and too attractive, and too expensive. Those who cannot afford them but also cannot resist them...Take them anyway.

 

 

2. The business model of Groundspeak (I guess, but I don't know for sure...that's how I would see it being most profitable for them)depends more on large quanties of visitors, rather than the health of the actual game itself. With the influx of the masses, comes an influx of people with...Let's call it "a Lesser degree of ethics".

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This still looks like the best idea to me

 

Something just crossed my mind, and I haven't thought it out very well, but here goes! What if, as a coin owner, you had the option to not have the icon for your coin or travelbug show up on cache pages. That way those that don't care or are against it can have it show up, and the owners that are worried about theft can keep theirs "quiet". It should be up to the coin owners really, since they are the ones that shelled out the money for them......

Just thinkin'

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This still looks like the best idea to me

 

Something just crossed my mind, and I haven't thought it out very well, but here goes! What if, as a coin owner, you had the option to not have the icon for your coin or travelbug show up on cache pages. That way those that don't care or are against it can have it show up, and the owners that are worried about theft can keep theirs "quiet". It should be up to the coin owners really, since they are the ones that shelled out the money for them......

Just thinkin'

 

Yes, yes. I agree. but are we not getting away from this being a traveler?

 

Now, don't think that's a bad thing. But in essence is this not a traveler?

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This still looks like the best idea to me

 

Something just crossed my mind, and I haven't thought it out very well, but here goes! What if, as a coin owner, you had the option to not have the icon for your coin or travelbug show up on cache pages. That way those that don't care or are against it can have it show up, and the owners that are worried about theft can keep theirs "quiet". It should be up to the coin owners really, since they are the ones that shelled out the money for them......

Just thinkin'

 

Yes, yes. I agree. but are we not getting away from this being a traveler?

 

Now, don't think that's a bad thing. But in essence is this not a traveler?

I think the idea if for the Coin/Bug page to stay up to date with milage and locations, but have the option for the location not to be advertised to potential thieves.

 

I still think it would be important for the Cache owner to be able to view the inventory, even of the ones who's Icons are hidden.

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I consider myself as a trackable redistributor.

 

I do look at trackables listed in a cache when nearby - I cache with a PDA, programmed with info on the bugs etc also. Also my GPSr is loaded to show whether a trackable is listed in a cache at the time of updating by adding a "#" at the end of the cache name.

 

So, if a trackable has been stuck in a cache for a while, I am keen to get it moving for the owner again.

If it only got dropped there in the last day or so, I'll probably leave it there, unless it is an "unfound" cache on my list and I am keen to find the cache.

 

So, I would be disadvantaged in helping out those TBs and coins by not having the icon or some alerting symbol on the list of caches.

 

But in saying that, the problem of thief is not quite as big in NZ, as in some of the more populated areas.

And another BUT - a big BUT - I went to a cache on Saturday. Left two trackables. Hubby went back there on Monday, with another cacher - both trackables were gone, with a muggle note. On looking back through the log book he realised the muggle was returning to the cache regularly to take all sorts from it.... it was his personal treasure trove. Unfortunately, as this was the first trackables ever in that cache there was nothing to alert us not to leave them there. That muggle would not have seen the web page, I suspect, so the icon issue does not apply

 

Two sides to the debate here maybe. Wish there was a solution.

Perhaps first line of attack is the privileges that come with Premier membership..... one small step at a time.

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But in saying that, the problem of thief is not quite as big in NZ, as in some of the more populated areas.

And another BUT - a big BUT - I went to a cache on Saturday. Left two trackables. Hubby went back there on Monday, with another cacher - both trackables were gone, with a muggle note. On looking back through the log book he realised the muggle was returning to the cache regularly to take all sorts from it.... it was his personal treasure trove. Unfortunately, as this was the first trackables ever in that cache there was nothing to alert us not to leave them there. That muggle would not have seen the web page, I suspect, so the icon issue does not apply

 

I wonder if in a case like that, adding a note for that muggle to read might help, at least for getting the trackables back? If they see a note that explains that they belong to someone and are meant to travel...Well I don't think it would hurt to try
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This still looks like the best idea to me

 

Something just crossed my mind, and I haven't thought it out very well, but here goes! What if, as a coin owner, you had the option to not have the icon for your coin or travelbug show up on cache pages. That way those that don't care or are against it can have it show up, and the owners that are worried about theft can keep theirs "quiet". It should be up to the coin owners really, since they are the ones that shelled out the money for them......

Just thinkin'

 

The problem I saw with this is that there's no consistancy. Yes, this is the same response I've been giving, and it's likely getting old, but it's true.

 

Also, just like Butterfly Lady said, people will not know when a coin is dropped or how long it's been sitting. I know several people who play the game mainly to move travelers (Geopigs comes to mind right off, but I know others too)...I'm sure they aren't the only ones in the world who play this way. Putting coins is silent mode takes the pleasure away from those people.

 

And then we get to the "ego" aspect. If the person having the icon made sees more and more people not using it, why have it made to begin with? That's $150 out the window. Sure, the cost is split up over all buyers, but that doesn't stop the "ego" deflation, and could mean a big loss in income for GS (I really doubt GS would like this).

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But in saying that, the problem of thief is not quite as big in NZ, as in some of the more populated areas.

And another BUT - a big BUT - I went to a cache on Saturday. Left two trackables. Hubby went back there on Monday, with another cacher - both trackables were gone, with a muggle note. On looking back through the log book he realised the muggle was returning to the cache regularly to take all sorts from it.... it was his personal treasure trove. Unfortunately, as this was the first trackables ever in that cache there was nothing to alert us not to leave them there. That muggle would not have seen the web page, I suspect, so the icon issue does not apply

 

:D That cache needs to be moved, or archived! Is the owner aware of this muggling? And the muggle is logging that he is taking things? Someone should leave the muggle a note, and explain this is wrong.

Can you say deer cam?

 

We need to educate the people who don't know how to log, so what if we all added this link to our Trackables page for the Groundspeak Knowledge Base trackables page, and see if that heps eliminate some of the losses? The current link doesn't lead to logging instructions on the first click, maybe that would help. I'll make the suggestion to Groundspeak. And get rid of, or do not use, poorly placed TB hotels. Don't place trackables in caches in high muggle areas. Most thieves won't work hard for it.

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We need to educate the people who don't know how to log, so what if we all added this link to our Trackables page for the Groundspeak Knowledge Base trackables page, and see if that heps eliminate some of the losses?

 

I think that's a great idea Eartha...I'm going to do that with mine. I have only been caching for over a year and have a handful of tb's out roaming. I have already sent detailed instructions on how to log to 3-4 cachers who were not familiar with how to do it. I have had good response with it, but had I not contacted them, I am sure the coins would have been fallen into "geocoin abyss". I am lucky I guess as I have not heard of coin thieving where I am...

 

Would it help at all to remove the option to have the geocoins show up on PQs? Probably not.

 

What we really need to do is conduct a focus group with these thieves... :):D

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Olay, I'll bite! TB2BAT6

I am curious as well, so I will let you know when I set it free :D Maybe tomorrow in the cache by my work.....

Editing to add that I will send you any emails I get....

 

I checked out your geocoin experiment...very interesting! Could you instruct cachers to log it as a discovery, state where they found it but not where they place it? That way, they don't have to email you and they still get an icon...

We could also put it on our watchlists too and watch it "travel".

If you were really ambitious, you could put your own map together with where it went based on these notes.

 

Just an idea...

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Olay, I'll bite! TB2BAT6

I am curious as well, so I will let you know when I set it free :D Maybe tomorrow in the cache by my work.....

Editing to add that I will send you any emails I get....

 

I checked out your geocoin experiment...very interesting! Could you instruct cachers to log it as a discovery, state where they found it but not where they place it? That way, they don't have to email you and they still get an icon...

We could also put it on our watchlists too and watch it "travel".

If you were really ambitious, you could put your own map together with where it went based on these notes.

 

Just an idea...

That's a good idea, thanks! Maybe I have too much faith in the common cacher, but I'm willing to give it a try :)

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Olay, I'll bite! TB2BAT6

I am curious as well, so I will let you know when I set it free :D Maybe tomorrow in the cache by my work.....

Editing to add that I will send you any emails I get....

 

I checked out your geocoin experiment...very interesting! Could you instruct cachers to log it as a discovery, state where they found it but not where they place it? That way, they don't have to email you and they still get an icon...

We could also put it on our watchlists too and watch it "travel".

If you were really ambitious, you could put your own map together with where it went based on these notes.

 

Just an idea...

That's a good idea, thanks! Maybe I have too much faith in the common cacher, but I'm willing to give it a try :)

 

Are you going to drill and tag the coin also? BTW - I added the coin to my watch list. Thanks for doing the experiment.

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One thing I'd point out is that, by asking people to discover only, you've already found a work-around for your personal problem. I'm not sure if it'll actually work or not, but you do have the choice right now whether the icon shows up on a cache page. :D

 

One problem with this, some people will not discover regardless of the reason, some feel discovering isn't a part of the game (not me, I would rather my traveler discovered than not if you're not going to move it).

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But in saying that, the problem of thief is not quite as big in NZ, as in some of the more populated areas.

And another BUT - a big BUT - I went to a cache on Saturday. Left two trackables. Hubby went back there on Monday, with another cacher - both trackables were gone, with a muggle note. On looking back through the log book he realised the muggle was returning to the cache regularly to take all sorts from it.... it was his personal treasure trove. Unfortunately, as this was the first trackables ever in that cache there was nothing to alert us not to leave them there. That muggle would not have seen the web page, I suspect, so the icon issue does not apply

 

:D That cache needs to be moved, or archived! Is the owner aware of this muggling? And the muggle is logging that he is taking things? Someone should leave the muggle a note, and explain this is wrong.

Can you say deer cam?

 

We need to educate the people who don't know how to log, so what if we all added this link to our Trackables page for the Groundspeak Knowledge Base trackables page, and see if that heps eliminate some of the losses? The current link doesn't lead to logging instructions on the first click, maybe that would help. I'll make the suggestion to Groundspeak. And get rid of, or do not use, poorly placed TB hotels. Don't place trackables in caches in high muggle areas. Most thieves won't work hard for it.

OK, Education is a good idea, and may help to solve some of the problem. Maybe some people hosting Events focused on Travelers? Discussions on how to activate them, prepare them for travel, and logging could take place. I guess that might only help a couple of people.

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We need to educate the people who don't know how to log, so what if we all added this link to our Trackables page for the Groundspeak Knowledge Base trackables page, and see if that heps eliminate some of the losses?

 

I think that's a great idea Eartha...I'm going to do that with mine. I have only been caching for over a year and have a handful of tb's out roaming. I have already sent detailed instructions on how to log to 3-4 cachers who were not familiar with how to do it. I have had good response with it, but had I not contacted them, I am sure the coins would have been fallen into "geocoin abyss". I am lucky I guess as I have not heard of coin thieving where I am...

 

Would it help at all to remove the option to have the geocoins show up on PQs? Probably not.

 

What we really need to do is conduct a focus group with these thieves... :):D

If you round them up, we'll set them straight!!

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I've often thought that hiding the icons might prevent theft. Sort of like not placing your iPod on the dashboard of your car when you go into a mall to shop.

 

However.

 

It won't work. Security by obscurity only serves to prevent simple theft of opportunity. Anyone that is specifically trying to steal coins will by-pass this.

 

In fact - ADDING MORE icons would be better. NOT deleting stolen coins from caches would be better. This way, the icon may appear and would represent the fact that the coin *may* be in the cache, but if it isn't then it isn't.

 

Coin theft occurs due to the perceived value of the item - the coin. The only way to reduce the theft is to reduce the desire/value of the coin. This is hard - it would take tens of thousands of the same coin being released - eventually, the thieves would tire of stealing the same item again and again. (not all - some would still steal them).

 

Coins are just the most obvious type of cache "theft". Bad trades, poor re-hides, etc - these are all ways of stealing quality and enjoyment for others. Cache "decay" only occurs when people participate in poor social behaviour.

 

While me may forgive folks that are "learning", "don't know", "just started" and so on - this is by far not the majority. Most bad behaviour comes from greed and selfishness. Whether taught, acquired, or through personal failings.

 

The key is that it only takes ONE to ruin what DOZENS have created. So, if your coin travels through a few caches before it is taken - reflect back on the joy it brought those that helped it. The one that stole it doesn't care what you think and probably isn't even listening.

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Olay, I'll bite! TB2BAT6

I am curious as well, so I will let you know when I set it free :D Maybe tomorrow in the cache by my work.....

Editing to add that I will send you any emails I get....

 

I checked out your geocoin experiment...very interesting! Could you instruct cachers to log it as a discovery, state where they found it but not where they place it? That way, they don't have to email you and they still get an icon...

We could also put it on our watchlists too and watch it "travel".

If you were really ambitious, you could put your own map together with where it went based on these notes.

 

Just an idea...

That's a good idea, thanks! Maybe I have too much faith in the common cacher, but I'm willing to give it a try :)

 

Are you going to drill and tag the coin also? BTW - I added the coin to my watch list. Thanks for doing the experiment.

I am going to tag it, but I'm not drilling it. I think I'll take it to an event that I'm going to Friday night to launch it. Maybe it will stir up a discussion about all the local thefts going on......

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If you can pinpoint which caches seem to be losing the most coins, maybe placing a "DO NOT PLACE COINS OR TB's" message on the cache page might help. OR, change those caches to PREMIUM caches and see what heappens then? If it's a random thing, this won't help, but if it's a premium member, you can check out who was last and kind of set a trap for that person.

 

Personally, I'd archive the cache, place a new one a little bit away, make it premium and do that test. If it's happening at the same caches over and over, the owner is allowing this to happen by keeping the cache alive.

 

Of course, if it's a muggle, no matter if it's got an icon or not.

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One thing I'd point out is that, by asking people to discover only, you've already found a work-around for your personal problem. I'm not sure if it'll actually work or not, but you do have the choice right now whether the icon shows up on a cache page. :D

 

One problem with this, some people will not discover regardless of the reason, some feel discovering isn't a part of the game (not me, I would rather my traveler discovered than not if you're not going to move it).

 

Well it won't log any miles, but I'll be curious to see how well cachers read instructions :) I am tagging it with the mission on it's home page....

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Olay, I'll bite! TB2BAT6

I am curious as well, so I will let you know when I set it free :D Maybe tomorrow in the cache by my work.....

Editing to add that I will send you any emails I get....

 

I checked out your geocoin experiment...very interesting! Could you instruct cachers to log it as a discovery, state where they found it but not where they place it? That way, they don't have to email you and they still get an icon...

We could also put it on our watchlists too and watch it "travel".

If you were really ambitious, you could put your own map together with where it went based on these notes.

 

Just an idea...

That's a good idea, thanks! Maybe I have too much faith in the common cacher, but I'm willing to give it a try :)

 

Are you going to drill and tag the coin also? BTW - I added the coin to my watch list. Thanks for doing the experiment.

I am going to tag it, but I'm not drilling it. I think I'll take it to an event that I'm going to Friday night to launch it. Maybe it will stir up a discussion about all the local thefts going on......

Maybe you couls stand up and make an announcement...

 

"If any one of you is the person who has been stealing local Coins, please step forward and claim your prize now." From all the "Stipid Criminal" stories we've all heard, it might just work

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If you can pinpoint which caches seem to be losing the most coins, maybe placing a "DO NOT PLACE COINS OR TB's" message on the cache page might help. OR, change those caches to PREMIUM caches and see what heappens then? If it's a random thing, this won't help, but if it's a premium member, you can check out who was last and kind of set a trap for that person.

 

Personally, I'd archive the cache, place a new one a little bit away, make it premium and do that test. If it's happening at the same caches over and over, the owner is allowing this to happen by keeping the cache alive.

 

Of course, if it's a muggle, no matter if it's got an icon or not.

 

I got an email yesterday with a whole long list of TBs and Geocoins (30 or 40) to mark missing, and as I was marking them, I noticed that a lot went missing from the same caches, this is a good point. If a cache is losing trackables over and over, then the owner needs to do something about it and cachers need to stop dropping them in those caches, trackables should not be left in high muggle areas.

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If you can pinpoint which caches seem to be losing the most coins, maybe placing a "DO NOT PLACE COINS OR TB's" message on the cache page might help. OR, change those caches to PREMIUM caches and see what heappens then? If it's a random thing, this won't help, but if it's a premium member, you can check out who was last and kind of set a trap for that person.

 

Personally, I'd archive the cache, place a new one a little bit away, make it premium and do that test. If it's happening at the same caches over and over, the owner is allowing this to happen by keeping the cache alive.

 

Of course, if it's a muggle, no matter if it's got an icon or not.

 

I can tell you from experience that some cache owners do NOT take the suggestion of requesting people not place trackable in their cache (because of repeated thefts) very well. I've very nicely made that suggestion in repeatedly muggled caches and was told off in a very terse response to my email. :D

 

I've also had cachers tell me they don't like PMO caches because that reduces their cache finds. But I have placed many coins in my PMO cache and have never had a theft (knock wood) yet. I wish more people would consider PMO caches for travelers as I do believe that can greatly reduce theft problems - but my understanding is that PMO caches aren't available in all areas.

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If you can pinpoint which caches seem to be losing the most coins, maybe placing a "DO NOT PLACE COINS OR TB's" message on the cache page might help. OR, change those caches to PREMIUM caches and see what heappens then? If it's a random thing, this won't help, but if it's a premium member, you can check out who was last and kind of set a trap for that person.

 

Personally, I'd archive the cache, place a new one a little bit away, make it premium and do that test. If it's happening at the same caches over and over, the owner is allowing this to happen by keeping the cache alive.

 

Of course, if it's a muggle, no matter if it's got an icon or not.

 

I can tell you from experience that some cache owners do NOT take the suggestion of requesting people not place trackable in their cache (because of repeated thefts) very well. I've very nicely made that suggestion in repeatedly muggled caches and was told off in a very terse response to my email. :D

 

I've also had cachers tell me they don't like PMO caches because that reduces their cache finds. But I have placed many coins in my PMO cache and have never had a theft (knock wood) yet. I wish more people would consider PMO caches for travelers as I do believe that can greatly reduce theft problems - but my understanding is that PMO caches aren't available in all areas.

 

Well, you could post a log on the cache page saying that many coins seem to go missing after visiting this cache (or something to that effect). If the owners get mad and deletes, just place again and send a message to the owner saying that trackables cost a good chunk and you're tired of seeing them getting stolen from their cache, maybe then suggest the PMO option until the thefts stop! Someone stealing coins will quit if they aren't around to steal.

 

Or, suggest they archive and move it a bit and see what happens then? If it's a muggle, moving the cache would be very helpful in finding this out!

 

I've never heard of PMOs not being allowed everywhere, but I suppose it's possible?

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If you can pinpoint which caches seem to be losing the most coins, maybe placing a "DO NOT PLACE COINS OR TB's" message on the cache page might help. OR, change those caches to PREMIUM caches and see what heappens then? If it's a random thing, this won't help, but if it's a premium member, you can check out who was last and kind of set a trap for that person.

 

Personally, I'd archive the cache, place a new one a little bit away, make it premium and do that test. If it's happening at the same caches over and over, the owner is allowing this to happen by keeping the cache alive.

 

Of course, if it's a muggle, no matter if it's got an icon or not.

 

I got an email yesterday with a whole long list of TBs and Geocoins (30 or 40) to mark missing, and as I was marking them, I noticed that a lot went missing from the same caches, this is a good point. If a cache is losing trackables over and over, then the owner needs to do something about it and cachers need to stop dropping them in those caches, trackables should not be left in high muggle areas.

 

I know that this will open a can of worms, but what if GS could archive Caches that are problems for Coin/TB theft. Now where's that little "Popcorn Smiley". That's an Idea, but probably not workable.

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First I will admit that I didn't read every post.

 

Here are my thoughts. I would be against this.

 

Not everyone that looks for coins in a cache is a thief. My personal preference is I like to do caches that have Travelbugs or Coins in them.

 

The reason I prefer those is I travel occasionally and I enjoy being able to move coins and Travelbugs from state to state.

 

Plus if the coin icon is on the page before I go to the cache I can see what the mission is of that coin or Travelbug.

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If you can pinpoint which caches seem to be losing the most coins, maybe placing a "DO NOT PLACE COINS OR TB's" message on the cache page might help. OR, change those caches to PREMIUM caches and see what heappens then? If it's a random thing, this won't help, but if it's a premium member, you can check out who was last and kind of set a trap for that person.

 

Personally, I'd archive the cache, place a new one a little bit away, make it premium and do that test. If it's happening at the same caches over and over, the owner is allowing this to happen by keeping the cache alive.

 

Of course, if it's a muggle, no matter if it's got an icon or not.

 

I got an email yesterday with a whole long list of TBs and Geocoins (30 or 40) to mark missing, and as I was marking them, I noticed that a lot went missing from the same caches, this is a good point. If a cache is losing trackables over and over, then the owner needs to do something about it and cachers need to stop dropping them in those caches, trackables should not be left in high muggle areas.

 

I know that this will open a can of worms, but what if GS could archive Caches that are problems for Coin/TB theft. Now where's that little "Popcorn Smiley". That's an Idea, but probably not workable.

 

People could always post an SBA to those caches and see what happens then. Having cache owners who won't stop theft is the same as not maintaining the cache IMHO.

 

Not that this is what I have in mind, but would anyone be willing to share the problem caches with me so I could watch them and see what's happening? An email with a list would be fine. I promise you, I have no intention of doing anything other than watching these caches!

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There's also the "Two-Step" process of preventing coin theft.

 

First you must go to a Sporting Goods store (online or a larger one locally)

 

Step ONE: Deer Camera

Step TWO: Baseball Bat

 

*I would formally like to note that this post does not promote or condone violent behaviour in any manner - please exercise caution when following any ideas this post may generate :laughing:

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Olay, I'll bite! TB2BAT6

I am curious as well, so I will let you know when I set it free :laughing: Maybe tomorrow in the cache by my work.....

Editing to add that I will send you any emails I get....

 

I checked out your geocoin experiment...very interesting! Could you instruct cachers to log it as a discovery, state where they found it but not where they place it? That way, they don't have to email you and they still get an icon...

We could also put it on our watchlists too and watch it "travel".

If you were really ambitious, you could put your own map together with where it went based on these notes.

 

Just an idea...

That's a good idea, thanks! Maybe I have too much faith in the common cacher, but I'm willing to give it a try :laughing:

 

Are you going to drill and tag the coin also? BTW - I added the coin to my watch list. Thanks for doing the experiment.

I am going to tag it, but I'm not drilling it. I think I'll take it to an event that I'm going to Friday night to launch it. Maybe it will stir up a discussion about all the local thefts going on......

Maybe you couls stand up and make an announcement...

 

"If any one of you is the person who has been stealing local Coins, please step forward and claim your prize now." From all the "Stipid Criminal" stories we've all heard, it might just work

LOL, that was too funny!!!!!!!!!! :laughing::laughing:

Maybe I'll try it :laughing:

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Something just crossed my mind, and I haven't thought it out very well, but here goes! What if, as a coin owner, you had the option to not have the icon for your coin or travelbug show up on cache pages. That way those that don't care or are against it can have it show up, and the owners that are worried about theft can keep theirs "quiet". It should be up to the coin owners really, since they are the ones that shelled out the money for them......

Just thinkin'

 

I have read this entire thread. I can see the benefits and downsides of the various solutions suggested to what is a very real problem in Portland, OR (burgessfour and I are friends), and I suspect in other locales as well. I have a public bookmark (gonif) that details the disappearance of 14 coins, all apparently grabbed by the same "cacher" (term used loosely). The coin that burgessfour owned and placed that quickly went missing was placed into one of my caches (Honoring Imi). It is maddening, frustrating and makes me sad to see coins (and TBs) go MIA, especially when it's not due to apathy or ignorance.

 

I do look at the inventory in a cache before I set out to find it - for two reasons: (1) to see if there are any trackables that catch my fancy, and (2) to read the mission for each trackable to see if I can help further its goal. I always do a discover on trackable I find but don't move.

 

Now, to the proposed solutions:

 

(1) Asking Groundspeak to allow coin owners the option of whether or not to display the coin in the cache's inventory.

Based on few times I've communicated with them, I doubt they'd implement this - at least, not in any year with a zero in it :laughing:. As much as I'd like to think this might offer some protection, I tend to agree it should not be done for two reasons: ( a ) It would selectively remove a feature on which many cachers rely, and ( b ) it would mean the coin would not show up in the "See the history" link in the cache's inventory. I often use this to gauge how safe a cache is as a repository for trackables.

 

(2) Dropping a coin without logging the drop and including a note along the lines of what burgessfour suggested in post #42 in this thread..

I especially think this would be appropriate treatment for Delorme Eartha coins and the ilk since it's the initial find that is being protected. How well it would work in the general case remains to be seen since it requires cooperation from those moving the trackable (including the clueless). One slip and the cat's out of the bag.

 

(3) Drilling and tagging coins.

I personally eschew drilling coins - I consider it defacing beautiful art. I do, however, always attach via non-destructive means a mission statement with all trackables. Usually, I put the coin/TB and mission statement in a ziplock bag - knowing full well they may become separated en route... but it's better than nothing.

 

(4) Placing coins only in PM caches.

This is a personal choice, but unenforceable in general for all cachers who move trackables. As an owner of two caches, one of which has been the victim of coin theft, I would consider creating as PM caches future placements to discourage shenanigans. Note that if an already placed cache is converted to a PM cache, anyone watching the cache (including Basic members) will still be notified of activity. The only way to prevent that is to archive the cache, move it and create a new PM-only cache.

 

(5) Limit the ability to see cache inventory to PM only.

Not workable as long as cachers make note in their logs of drops and grabs.

 

(6) Education.

I'm all for it! Will it work? Only for honest, involved cachers not already needing clues. In short, it would miss the audience needing the information. But at least when I email a clueless cacher, I could simply point them at the link in lieu of writing my own dissertation (which I've done too often, and will continue to do).

 

(7) Posting warning notes for FMC (frequently muggled caches).

Limited usefulness - subsequent entries would eventually relegate the note to distant log pages...

That's what we did, and drove back to the church, had a thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat, went to sleep and didn't get up until the next morning, when we got a phone call from officer Obie. He said, "Kid, we found your name on an envelope at the bottom of a half a ton of garbage, and just wanted to know if you had any information about it." And I said, "Yes, sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie, I put that envelope under that garbage."

Raising a Needs Maintenance flag for the cache would be more visible, but I don't think it would be appropriate - and would certainly annoy the cache owner. Emailing the cache owner directly stating concerns about the high muggle rate of the cache would be more appropriate - even if it risks getting back a nastygram.

 

(8) Deer cam and baseball bat; lining up the miscreants and meting out a Tonya Harding solution.

No comment :laughing:, but let me know if you'll be selling tickets to the event!

 

Having said all this, I'm sorry to say I don't have any ideas to protect coins/TBs from thieves which are any more workable or acceptable than those already presented. I'd like to note that Lemon Fresh Dog's Post #77 is on point and goes to the core of this issue.

 

If you've made it this far, thanks for listening!

 

cheers, and cache on!

clupea

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Going back to the original title of this topic...

 

I've been trying out the idea of removing the icon for my geocoins from each cache it gets dropped into. I used the idea of the terrier dog going to earth, so have a look at my "Disappearing Dog" geocoin. I wanted to keep the coin 'out of sight' as much as possible so that it would be a surprise for any cacher who came across it unexpectedly in a cache.

 

MrsB :laughing:

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Going back to the original title of this topic...

 

I've been trying out the idea of removing the icon for my geocoins from each cache it gets dropped into. I used the idea of the terrier dog going to earth, so have a look at my "Disappearing Dog" geocoin. I wanted to keep the coin 'out of sight' as much as possible so that it would be a surprise for any cacher who came across it unexpectedly in a cache.

 

MrsB :laughing:

 

Oooh, that's a good idea; thank you for sharing! Too time consuming to do with very many but with a few it's manageable.... :laughing:

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(7) Posting warning notes for FMC (frequently muggled caches).

Limited usefulness - subsequent entries would eventually relegate the note to distant log pages...

That's what we did, and drove back to the church, had a thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat, went to sleep and didn't get up until the next morning, when we got a phone call from officer Obie. He said, "Kid, we found your name on an envelope at the bottom of a half a ton of garbage, and just wanted to know if you had any information about it." And I said, "Yes, sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie, I put that envelope under that garbage."

Raising a Needs Maintenance flag for the cache would be more visible, but I don't think it would be appropriate - and would certainly annoy the cache owner. Emailing the cache owner directly stating concerns about the high muggle rate of the cache would be more appropriate - even if it risks getting back a nastygram.

 

 

I completely agree that contacting the owner with your concerns would be the first step, then possibly leaving logs (and re-leaving when the logs fall off the front page), then leaving an SBA if this is the last resort. I made the suggestion for leaving the SBA because it was already said that contacting the owner(s) wasn't helpful.

 

And I agree, there isn't a viable solution to stopping theft. Maybe a trap using the deercam and taking the evicence to GS, but...

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Going back to the original title of this topic...

 

I've been trying out the idea of removing the icon for my geocoins from each cache it gets dropped into. I used the idea of the terrier dog going to earth, so have a look at my "Disappearing Dog" geocoin. I wanted to keep the coin 'out of sight' as much as possible so that it would be a surprise for any cacher who came across it unexpectedly in a cache.

 

MrsB :laughing:

 

Interesting approach, albeit high maintenance as burgessfour noted. It works to the extent that it does not show up in the current contents of the cache's inventory. A clever cacher can still look at the See the history link of any cache in which it was ever placed to see where it was last dropped. Still, it seems like a workable solution to not advertise a coin you suspect will attract thieves.

 

clupea

 

p.s. That's a beautiful coin!

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Cache owners have no control of who visits their caches - so trying to move the "responsibility" for the coin to them is useless.

 

Also - a cacher cannot effectively control who/what visits the cache after their placing the item - so you can't expect them to find a "safe" cache for you. In theory - all caches *should* be safe for travelers. If not, it is not the owner or the honest cacher - it's the thief. They are hard to find.

 

The truth is: if you don't want to lose a coin - don't risk it by placing it in a cache.

 

I don't *like* this fact, but I *acknowledge* that it is true.

 

Icon hiding/manipulation may delay the theft, but likely not. In fact, finding a cache with no record of a coin in it may even encourage some to steal it "hmmm...a coin, nobody knows it was here....bwaaa-ha-ha!"

 

Theft sucks. We need to make the item not worth stealing. Drill it, scratch it, de-face it.

 

I've even hammered on some of my coins and folks will steal them - at least I know they didn't get a "pretty" coin for free!

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...Icon hiding/manipulation may delay the theft, but likely not. In fact, finding a cache with no record of a coin in it may even encourage some to steal it "hmmm...a coin, nobody knows it was here....bwaaa-ha-ha!"

 

Fortunately I don't think we have too big a problem with deliberate thefts of geocoins here in UK. I know of 3 areas where some dodgy/shady stuff was/is going on with geocoins, but overall I don't think it's too bad. My "icon manipulation" re. my Disappearing Dog coin is done more for the fun of giving finders a surprise rather than the intention of foiling the deliberate thief. :laughing:

 

Theft sucks. We need to make the item not worth stealing. Drill it, scratch it, de-face it.

 

I often drill coins I release, but that little terrier dog is far too cute to be de-faced! :laughing:

 

MrsB

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I, too, am saddened with the theft of trackables. I'm not sure if there's a fix to the problem but my thought is to put out more information not less. Make them more visible. For instance, I think making sure trackables are in a bag and that there are traveling instructions with it would make the items stand out from general swag. It seems as though coins are taken much more often than TBs. I bet that's because TBs have an ID tag attached to them making them stand out as a one-of-a-kind item with a mission. Unfortunately there will always be thieves. It's important to remember that when geocaching first started it wasn't about any of that....

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