Removing coin icon from cache page - the pros/cons

[+ThePetersTrio]

This is a thread to float the idea of removing trackable icons from a cache page. All points of view are welcome here. I'm sure I haven't considered all aspects of this idea and if/how it would or could be put into action. I just know that I am saddened by the number of coins that are reported missing - mine and others - and am searching for ways to reduce this from happening.

 

How would you feel if coin and/or TB icons were not shown on a cache page? Would this interfere with your enjoyment of geocaching?

 

Do you feel this idea could potentially reduce the number of trackables that go missing?

 

What about hiding the icons unless a cacher is a premium member?

 

Would a generic coin icon (on the cache page - not on our trackables moved/discovered/owned page) like a generic TB icon help in your opinion?

 

I look forward to reading your opinions.

[+NOSNOW]

Would it not make it harder to figure out that they are gone? If it's not on the cache page, no one would know to look. They would just stay in limbo.

 

Not much can be done. A thief is a thief!

[+burgessfour]

I love this idea!!! Even with the icon showing you can almost guarantee that any coin showing is gone. I think there would be more surprise involved if no icon showed and less thefts. I have been thinking this very same thing for a while now as coins around here are disappearing the same day as they are dropped and never logged in.

[+burgessfour]

Would it not make it harder to figure out that they are gone? If it's not on the cache page, no one would know to look. They would just stay in limbo.

 

Not much can be done. A thief is a thief!

 

The logs for the coin page would still be available and they would show the travels, there just wouldn't be an icon showing for them on the cache page

[+LadyBee4T]

99% of the time I don't go to a cache just because a coin is there. In fact I usually don't check the cache page at all before going caching--just use the coords in my unit. Not having the icon there wouldn't affect me much at all.

 

I don't think hiding the icons unless you are a premium member makes much sense. Premium Members can also be thieves.

[+NOSNOW]

The logs for the coin page would still be available and they would show the travels, there just wouldn't be an icon showing for them on the cache page

 

But if it is not on the cache page, no one would not know to look for the bug/coin in the cache. So if it is taken without being log it would not be able to be marked missing, and would not have a time frame to look if a newbee might of taken it.

[+AtwellFamily]

I don't think hiding the icons unless you are a premium member makes much sense. Premium Members can also be thieves.

Pay $30 to take $100's it is a good investment if you are into that kind of thing.

 

Not sure anything will help. I have TB's go missing. What does that say?

[+burgessfour]

For me the real enjoyment is admiring the coin and helping it on it's mission. I often go back and look at the coin pages of ones I've moved along to see how they are doing. The icon on the cache page doesn't affect this at all. Perhaps only the cache owner and ooin/TB owner should be the ones to see it's in a particular cache. That way, if it does go missing the cache owner can still mark it missing. The problem would be if the cache owner was a thief......

[+CanadaKate]

My family does take into account whether there are coins or TBs in a cache when deciding which caches to pursue. We enjoy finding coins or TBs, reading their stories, and helping them on their way. I do carefully read the logs before we set out so that I know whether listed coins/TBs are likely still in the cache.

 

Having said that, if the icons weren't on the cache page, we'd simply have a pleasant surprise now and then when we unexpectedly discovered a coin or TB.

Edited November 19, 2008 by CanadaKate

[+burgessfour]

One good example of this is the two Delorme Eartha coins that were dropped in the area. They weren't logged into the caches and only if you read the cache page and you were aware of Team Delorme and what they were doing would you suspect that something a little special was put there. The coin in Hillboro was in a cache for about three days before it was picked up by an honest cacher that drove 3 hours to retrieve it. That coin wouldn't have lasted a day (or even a couple of hours) had it been logged into the cache and the icon showed up.

I don't know about everywhere else, but it's pretty bad here folks. I have a cache right by where I work and a cacher came by and traded coins. So I popped out there and took a look. Sure enough it was right there and being as this cache is out in the country I figured it was safe and I left it there. The next day I got an email that a cacher had found the cache but no coin I couldn't believe it so I walked out there and sure enough, no coin! No one had physically signed the logbook in between the time I saw the coin and the cachers that noted it was missing or logged online so I can only assume a theft had taken place. Would that have happened if there were no icon? I doubt it, unless they just got lucky and stumbled across it by chance. We can never stop all coin thefts, but we can work to significantly decrease them.

[+scavok]

This is just my personal 2 cents, but I would vote against it.

 

I do actually (more than just every once in a while) go to a cache for no other reason than to grab a coin that I haven't seen before. I always check the logs to make sure nobody has said it's not there, but I like the icon.

 

IMHO

[+DaFunkyFrogs]

If removing the coin icon from the cache list pages would help more coins survive, I would be all for it. There would need to be a way for cache owners to be able to tell if a coin was supposed to be in their cache though. I feel that checking on the presence of coins in your cache is part of cache maintenance, including moving coins that have sat in your cache for too long. There doesn't seem to be a lot of theft (aside from muggled caches) in our area, so we feel lucky.

[+ThePetersTrio]

All opinions are welcome!! Don't be shy people.

 

(I'm actually hoping someone can convince me that the idea is bad before I make a fool of myself and post it on the web-section of the board...LoL.)

 

I do realize there are cachers who chase icons and look specifically for caches with a coin they haven't seen before. That's why I posited the question about premium-members only having that information...and yes, it is not a perfect solution as there may be just as many thieves among paying members (horrible thought that it is).

 

But in all honesty I used to chase coins and icons listed on the cache page but 9 times out of 10, the coin is missing when I reach the cache so I don't do that so much any more. Too disappointing.

Edited November 19, 2008 by ThePetersTrio

[+burgessfour]

Something just crossed my mind, and I haven't thought it out very well, but here goes! What if, as a coin owner, you had the option to not have the icon for your coin or travelbug show up on cache pages. That way those that don't care or are against it can have it show up, and the owners that are worried about theft can keep theirs "quiet". It should be up to the coin owners really, since they are the ones that shelled out the money for them......

Just thinkin'

[+LadyBee4T]

One good example of this is the two Delorme Eartha coins that were dropped in the area. They weren't logged into the caches and only if you read the cache page and you were aware of Team Delorme and what they were doing would you suspect that something a little special was put there. The coin in Hillboro was in a cache for about three days before it was picked up by an honest cacher that drove 3 hours to retrieve it. That coin wouldn't have lasted a day (or even a couple of hours) had it been logged into the cache and the icon showed up.

 

Aren't those left as swag and you can keep them if you find them? If so why would it have been so bad if it didn't last a day there?

[+LadyBee4T]

I don't think hiding the icons unless you are a premium member makes much sense. Premium Members can also be thieves.

Pay $30 to take $100's it is a good investment if you are into that kind of thing.

 

Not sure anything will help. I have TB's go missing. What does that say?

 

You know I never would have thought about it that way! I guess I don't have a criminal mind!

[+burgessfour]

One good example of this is the two Delorme Eartha coins that were dropped in the area. They weren't logged into the caches and only if you read the cache page and you were aware of Team Delorme and what they were doing would you suspect that something a little special was put there. The coin in Hillboro was in a cache for about three days before it was picked up by an honest cacher that drove 3 hours to retrieve it. That coin wouldn't have lasted a day (or even a couple of hours) had it been logged into the cache and the icon showed up.

 

Aren't those left as swag and you can keep them if you find them? If so why would it have been so bad if it didn't last a day there?

As Delorme owns them, I wouldn't necessarily consider them swag. If they were unactivated, absolutely! But, I guess my point was having the icons is kind of like pointing out that there is something of value (sort of, although they can't sell them which makes it all the more curious to me) in the cache to come and take. Around here as far as coins go, the icons show what used to be there 75% of the time. It's interesting to me that the coin that got traded for the one that got stolen was a copy (it said so on it's page). I guess the thief didn't want to bother with that one, but as soon as a real coin turned up, POOF!

[+Rockin Roddy]

You'd have to get everyone to agree not to post that they left a bug or coin at a cache. It sees like a bad idea to me. I'm all for protecting the travelers, but we do need to know where they are too.

 

If this happened, what would stop someone from stealing every traveler they came to? No one would know they were missing, you'd never know who saw them last. Seems like more would be stolen, not less.

[+burgessfour]

If this happened, what would stop someone from stealing every traveler they came to? No one would know they were missing, you'd never know who saw them last. Seems like more would be stolen, not less.

 

But some already do, and currently they have a list and a PQ to show them exactly where they are.....

[+BlueDeuce]

If we have reached the point where we are not willing to openly list travelers in caches, we need to step back and reconsider what we are putting out there.

 

The premium-members only idea would probably be twisted by some to suggest that gc.com is making coins a perk for paying members, even though we know different.

 

As for hiding the icon, it seems that you are attempting to address the issue of theft. Part of the things I've been working for is for people to better able to identify what travelers are in caches so they can better assist them towards their goal. So I don't quite get behind what seems like a ‘chance’ approach for people to locate bugs. If that's what you are proposing, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited November 19, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+burgessfour]

As for hiding the icon, it seems that you are attempting to address the issue of theft. Part of the things I've been working for is for people to better able to identify what travelers are in caches so they can better assist them towards their goal. So I don't quite get behind what seems like a ‘chance’ approach for people to locate bugs. If that's what you are proposing, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

That would be a downside to this, but the upside would be that the traveler might actually be there. What about the idea of leaving it up to the coin/tb owner to decide if they want their travelers icon showing up? It could be as simple as a click on their coin page....Then those that choose to take this route need to make sure they give their coins a clear mission tag. This should be done anyway, but I know quite a few don't....

 

Editing to say that this option will give folks who are having theft problems an option to "turn off" their icon in problem areas, but others who aren't having problems can keep their icon "on".

 

Gotta go take my daughter to the dentist, bummer!

Edited November 19, 2008 by burgessfour

[+BlueDeuce]

As for hiding the icon, it seems that you are attempting to address the issue of theft. Part of the things I've been working for is for people to better able to identify what travelers are in caches so they can better assist them towards their goal. So I don't quite get behind what seems like a ‘chance’ approach for people to locate bugs. If that's what you are proposing, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

That would be a downside to this, but the upside would be that the traveler might actually be there. What about the idea of leaving it up to the coin/tb owner to decide if they want their travelers icon showing up? It could be as simple as a click on their coin page....Then those that choose to take this route need to make sure they give their coins a clear mission tag. This should be done anyway, but I know quite a few don't....

 

I'd like to talk about this a bit more, but at first glance I wouldn't be opposed.

 

My main thing is that I don't think that theft is the biggest reason for things going missing. Sure, coins more so than bugs, but in my opinion Travelers go missing for three main reasons, in order: Incompetence, Apathy, and Specific Intent.

 

Specific intent meaning intentionally keeping a bug or coin, incompetence meaning lacking the skills to do something properly and of course apathy, which I would explain but I've lost all interest to do so.

 

but like I said, I'd like to discuss this further before coming to any conclusion.

[+Rockin Roddy]

As for hiding the icon, it seems that you are attempting to address the issue of theft. Part of the things I've been working for is for people to better able to identify what travelers are in caches so they can better assist them towards their goal. So I don't quite get behind what seems like a ‘chance’ approach for people to locate bugs. If that's what you are proposing, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

That would be a downside to this, but the upside would be that the traveler might actually be there. What about the idea of leaving it up to the coin/tb owner to decide if they want their travelers icon showing up? It could be as simple as a click on their coin page....Then those that choose to take this route need to make sure they give their coins a clear mission tag. This should be done anyway, but I know quite a few don't....

 

You're not only asking that cachers moving the TBs/coins not post they dropped them, but you're also asking owners to make tags? Many people don't (as you said), and then you have those that'd want to know if the tag was supposed to be there (emailing owners as was discussed in a recent thread). What happens if the tags get lost, ruined etc?

 

You're asking an aweful lot from cachers. If you make it up to the owners and then someone posts they dropped one against the owner's wishes, there'll be problems. If the owner wants the icon and a cacher doesn't post he dropped it, the owner could get mad and then you've got problems...too many chances for problems IMHO.

 

Here's my thought, if you can't afford to lose the traveler, don't send it out. If you're too worried about losing your traveler, don't send it out. If you put out enough travelers that one or two missing won't hurt your feelings, send them out and keep sending them until they're so numerous, people lose interest in stealing them!

 

Thieves will always figure out a way to rob your fun, why make it harder for cachers to place TBs/coins into the wild?

[Beefy4605]

This is a thread to float the idea of removing trackable icons from a cache page. All points of view are welcome here. I'm sure I haven't considered all aspects of this idea and if/how it would or could be put into action. I just know that I am saddened by the number of coins that are reported missing - mine and others - and am searching for ways to reduce this from happening.

 

How would you feel if coin and/or TB icons were not shown on a cache page? Would this interfere with your enjoyment of geocaching?

 

Do you feel this idea could potentially reduce the number of trackables that go missing?

 

What about hiding the icons unless a cacher is a premium member?

 

Would a generic coin icon (on the cache page - not on our trackables moved/discovered/owned page) like a generic TB icon help in your opinion?

 

I look forward to reading your opinions.

 

I know what you are trying to acheive but I honestly don't think this is the way forward.

As someone who enjoys going out and actively hunting coins for the icon (shallow - maybe but at least I'm honest about it)hiding the coins so that I can't see whats where I would probably give up this hobby. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of excellent caches out there but I prefer to find and move coins around. I take a picture of them and have them stored in my computer. If when I'm posting a note on the coins page I see that there is no picture of the coin I'll stick up a picture so everyone can see what they are looking for .

I don't think it would reduce the number of coins going missing as nobody would know where the coins were therefore there would be no deterrent for the dishonest among us .

[+ThePetersTrio]

I'd like to talk about this a bit more, but at first glance I wouldn't be opposed.

 

My main thing is that I don't think that theft is the biggest reason for things going missing. Sure, coins more so than bugs, but in my opinion Travelers go missing for three main reasons, in order: Incompetence, Apathy, and Specific Intent.

 

Specific intent meaning intentionally keeping a bug or coin, incompetence meaning lacking the skills to do something properly and of course apathy, which I would explain but I've lost all interest to do so.

 

but like I said, I'd like to discuss this further before coming to any conclusion.

 

I'm glad you are keeping an open mind and you bring up some great points. BTW, when this thought first hit my synapses my reaction was - no way it would work. But after thinking about it for a while, I wanted to open the discussion at least.

 

I like Burgess4's suggestion about allowing the traveler's owner the ability to turn the icon off or on when they chose but I'm not sure from a practical standpoint TPTB could do that. I know next to nothing about computers so I could definitely be wrong here.

 

About incompetent people not knowing what to do with trackables, I'm sure that issue does play a big role in the problem but I know that I always drill and tag - explaining what to do and not to keep the coin - so unless we are talking about illiterate cachers, then that leaves apathy and intent. None of us can do anything about apathy...but maybe we can do a little something to make it harder for those who have intent. I'm all for that.

[+ThePetersTrio]

Here's my thought, if you can't afford to lose the traveler, don't send it out. If you're too worried about losing your traveler, don't send it out. If you put out enough travelers that one or two missing won't hurt your feelings, send them out and keep sending them until they're so numerous, people lose interest in stealing them!

 

Thieves will always figure out a way to rob your fun, why make it harder for cachers to place TBs/coins into the wild?

 

I appreciate this point RR - I truly do. And I share it. I'm personally not "worried" about the coins that I put out there (although I can see why someone would think that with this thread)! I'm worried that more and more cachers will leave coins and travelers out of the fun all together because they don't want to spend money on something that has a high chance of going missing. I want more cachers to participate!! I want more coins out in caches!! (I'm trying my best to do this but I'm only one person! LoL)

 

And I do WISH that more of my coins lived longer out in the wild because I want other cachers to enjoy them like I enjoy the ones I come across.

[+burgessfour]

Here's my thought, if you can't afford to lose the traveler, don't send it out. If you're too worried about losing your traveler, don't send it out. If you put out enough travelers that one or two missing won't hurt your feelings, send them out and keep sending them until they're so numerous, people lose interest in stealing them!

 

Thieves will always figure out a way to rob your fun, why make it harder for cachers to place TBs/coins into the wild?

 

I appreciate this point RR - I truly do. And I share it. I'm personally not "worried" about the coins that I put out there (although I can see why someone would think that with this thread)! I'm worried that more and more cachers will leave coins and travelers out of the fun all together because they don't want to spend money on something that has a high chance of going missing. I want more cachers to participate!! I want more coins out in caches!! (I'm trying my best to do this but I'm only one person! LoL)

 

And I do WISH that more of my coins lived longer out in the wild because I want other cachers to enjoy them like I enjoy the ones I come across.

 

I myself have only lost one; it's all the other poor coins that are vanishing in the area that I feel bad for. I have plenty of them released and hope for the best. But if everyone has an "Oh well, that's just the way it has to be" then no new ideas will come forward. I am just tossing out suggestions

[+Rockin Roddy]

Here's my thought, if you can't afford to lose the traveler, don't send it out. If you're too worried about losing your traveler, don't send it out. If you put out enough travelers that one or two missing won't hurt your feelings, send them out and keep sending them until they're so numerous, people lose interest in stealing them!

 

Thieves will always figure out a way to rob your fun, why make it harder for cachers to place TBs/coins into the wild?

 

I appreciate this point RR - I truly do. And I share it. I'm personally not "worried" about the coins that I put out there (although I can see why someone would think that with this thread)! I'm worried that more and more cachers will leave coins and travelers out of the fun all together because they don't want to spend money on something that has a high chance of going missing. I want more cachers to participate!! I want more coins out in caches!! (I'm trying my best to do this but I'm only one person! LoL)

 

And I do WISH that more of my coins lived longer out in the wild because I want other cachers to enjoy them like I enjoy the ones I come across.

 

As I said in my last post...give owners a choice and things will soon be so confusing that many will stop moving them merely to avoid the anger of owners, owners will stop putting them out because they would now need to tag them. Owners would also get tired of the hassle of their choices being ignored.

 

I am all for protecting the travelers, but making it harder for the honest while leaving it even easier for the dishonest??

[+burgessfour]

As for hiding the icon, it seems that you are attempting to address the issue of theft. Part of the things I've been working for is for people to better able to identify what travelers are in caches so they can better assist them towards their goal. So I don't quite get behind what seems like a ‘chance’ approach for people to locate bugs. If that's what you are proposing, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

That would be a downside to this, but the upside would be that the traveler might actually be there. What about the idea of leaving it up to the coin/tb owner to decide if they want their travelers icon showing up? It could be as simple as a click on their coin page....Then those that choose to take this route need to make sure they give their coins a clear mission tag. This should be done anyway, but I know quite a few don't....

 

You're not only asking that cachers moving the TBs/coins not post they dropped them, but you're also asking owners to make tags? Many people don't (as you said), and then you have those that'd want to know if the tag was supposed to be there (emailing owners as was discussed in a recent thread). What happens if the tags get lost, ruined etc?

 

You're asking an aweful lot from cachers. If you make it up to the owners and then someone posts they dropped one against the owner's wishes, there'll be problems. If the owner wants the icon and a cacher doesn't post he dropped it, the owner could get mad and then you've got problems...too many chances for problems IMHO.

 

Here's my thought, if you can't afford to lose the traveler, don't send it out. If you're too worried about losing your traveler, don't send it out. If you put out enough travelers that one or two missing won't hurt your feelings, send them out and keep sending them until they're so numerous, people lose interest in stealing them!

 

Thieves will always figure out a way to rob your fun, why make it harder for cachers to place TBs/coins into the wild?

I don't think I said anything about posting, just an owner choosing not to have the icon for their coin show up on a cache page.

And if they choolse not to have their icon show and they don't make a tag, then the person that took it can go home and check it's page and if they can't help it, they can drop it in another cache. All I'm talking about is an "icon' on a cache page being there or not at the discretion of the coin/tb owner, not making anything harder or changing the way anybody logs anything.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Here's my thought, if you can't afford to lose the traveler, don't send it out. If you're too worried about losing your traveler, don't send it out. If you put out enough travelers that one or two missing won't hurt your feelings, send them out and keep sending them until they're so numerous, people lose interest in stealing them!

 

Thieves will always figure out a way to rob your fun, why make it harder for cachers to place TBs/coins into the wild?

 

I appreciate this point RR - I truly do. And I share it. I'm personally not "worried" about the coins that I put out there (although I can see why someone would think that with this thread)! I'm worried that more and more cachers will leave coins and travelers out of the fun all together because they don't want to spend money on something that has a high chance of going missing. I want more cachers to participate!! I want more coins out in caches!! (I'm trying my best to do this but I'm only one person! LoL)

 

And I do WISH that more of my coins lived longer out in the wild because I want other cachers to enjoy them like I enjoy the ones I come across.

 

I myself have only lost one; it's all the other poor coins that are vanishing in the area that I feel bad for. I have plenty of them released and hope for the best. But if everyone has an "Oh well, that's just the way it has to be" then no new ideas will come forward. I am just tossing out suggestions

 

You guys are reading my whole post...right?

 

Again, I'm all for protection, but I cannot get behind something that'll bring on more confusion than good!

[+BlueDeuce]

About incompetent people not knowing what to do with trackables, I'm sure that issue does play a big role in the problem but I know that I always drill and tag - explaining what to do and not to keep the coin - so unless we are talking about illiterate cachers, then that leaves apathy and intent. None of us can do anything about apathy...but maybe we can do a little something to make it harder for those who have intent. I'm all for that.

 

I don't know, I think incompetence, (note that I just pick the word in an attempt to give it a name), covers everything expect apathy and intent, so don't think that a tag is the only thing to address here. It also includes the people doing the releasing. There are a lot of things people don't know, don't do, and let's not forget the limitations of the site.

 

I'm preparing for a trip tomorrow so I'll have to wait to give a better outline of what I'm talking about.

[+Eartha]

If you hide the icon, do you also have to hide the list of TBs in the cache, on the cache page? It would mean TBs and Geocoins would be a surprise if found, but no one could click on them to read the stories behind them, and view the photos. And no one would be quite sure if the whereabouts of their trackables, unless they checked their profiles. And no one would know if that racing TB they are looking to pick up, or the one "headed home", unless you search by TB name, or go through profiles, and then you have to spell the name right. Some user names are downright unrememberable when you try to write them.

Hiding the icon, but not the list, on the cache page means cachers just have to click on each page individually to look up the TBs, but that means anyone can do that too. Maybe if the list could be left, but you have to be logged in to view the list and icons, in the same way you have to be logged in to view the coordinates, because you don't have to be logged in to see them now. Maybe that might help deter a thief from signing for an account in the first place. It's hard to say, because the thieves already have to log in to get the coordinates. I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

Icons, people paid extra to have icons. Now they don't get to show them off? Only in profiles?

 

I'm still getting logs of people just now starting out the Unite For Diabetes TBs that were sent out a couple of years ago. Back then, I posted notes on how to log on the first 800, or so, TBs, of an alphabetical list, that had not yet been released. I quit logging when I got through the "C"s. It was too time consuming. Some were sent to people who were not cachers, because they were given out on the Unite For Diabetes website as well. I put them all on my watchlist, and deleted them from my watchlist when they were moved on. I still have a very long watchlist (too long to count them). Some had actually been moving miles before someone said "Found this, have no idea how it got this far without being logged, but here it is". We have to teach people how.

 

Yes, we have thieves, but I don't believe the majority of missing trackables are stolen. I like to believe people are better then that, and that geocachers are good people.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

I don't think I said anything about posting, just an owner choosing not to have the icon for their coin show up on a cache page.

And if they choolse not to have their icon show and they don't make a tag, then the person that took it can go home and check it's page and if they can't help it, they can drop it in another cache. All I'm talking about is an "icon' on a cache page being there or not at the discretion of the coin/tb owner, not making anything harder or changing the way anybody logs anything.

 

When cachers log their finds, don't many of them also log if they pick up or drop a TB/coin??

Edited November 20, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

[+ThePetersTrio]

I know what you are trying to acheive but I honestly don't think this is the way forward.

As someone who enjoys going out and actively hunting coins for the icon (shallow - maybe but at least I'm honest about it)hiding the coins so that I can't see whats where I would probably give up this hobby. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of excellent caches out there but I prefer to find and move coins around. I take a picture of them and have them stored in my computer. If when I'm posting a note on the coins page I see that there is no picture of the coin I'll stick up a picture so everyone can see what they are looking for .

I don't think it would reduce the number of coins going missing as nobody would know where the coins were therefore there would be no deterrent for the dishonest among us .

 

I don't think it's shallow to hunt caches for icons....I've been known to do that too.

 

I really appreciate everyone's input so far...you've all given me a lot of food for thought. Keep em coming!

[+ThePetersTrio]

Maybe if the list could be left, but you have to be logged in to view the list and icons, in the same way you have to be logged in to view the coordinates, because you don't have to be logged in to see them now. Maybe that might help deter a thief from signing for an account in the first place. It's hard to say, because the thieves already have to log in to get the coordinates. I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

What if a generic icon with the traveler's specific name (like the TBs are now) was left listed on the cache page but the icon was left off of the general search page entirely?

 

If I were a thief, I'd know where a few local caches were and then just pull up the list by area from time to time and when an icon appeared - I'd hit the cache. So if the would-be thief had to actually click on each cache page to see if there was any generic icon and then click on the individual listing to see what it was, maybe that would make them have to work for it just that much harder and they'd figure it wasn't worth it....again, just thinking out loud.

 

Oh but your point about people buying these icons is very well taken. People want the icons they paid for to be seen. As an icon owner, I totally get that.

[+burgessfour]

As for hiding the icon, it seems that you are attempting to address the issue of theft. Part of the things I've been working for is for people to better able to identify what travelers are in caches so they can better assist them towards their goal. So I don't quite get behind what seems like a ‘chance’ approach for people to locate bugs. If that's what you are proposing, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

That would be a downside to this, but the upside would be that the traveler might actually be there. What about the idea of leaving it up to the coin/tb owner to decide if they want their travelers icon showing up? It could be as simple as a click on their coin page....Then those that choose to take this route need to make sure they give their coins a clear mission tag. This should be done anyway, but I know quite a few don't....

 

You're not only asking that cachers moving the TBs/coins not post they dropped them, but you're also asking owners to make tags? Many people don't (as you said), and then you have those that'd want to know if the tag was supposed to be there (emailing owners as was discussed in a recent thread). What happens if the tags get lost, ruined etc?

 

You're asking an aweful lot from cachers. If you make it up to the owners and then someone posts they dropped one against the owner's wishes, there'll be problems. If the owner wants the icon and a cacher doesn't post he dropped it, the owner could get mad and then you've got problems...too many chances for problems IMHO.

 

Here's my thought, if you can't afford to lose the traveler, don't send it out. If you're too worried about losing your traveler, don't send it out. If you put out enough travelers that one or two missing won't hurt your feelings, send them out and keep sending them until they're so numerous, people lose interest in stealing them!

 

Thieves will always figure out a way to rob your fun, why make it harder for cachers to place TBs/coins into the wild?

I don't think I said anything about posting, just an owner choosing not to have the icon for their coin show up on a cache page.

And if they choolse not to have their icon show and they don't make a tag, then the person that took it can go home and check it's page and if they can't help it, they can drop it in another cache. All I'm talking about is an "icon' on a cache page being there or not at the discretion of the coin/tb owner, not making anything harder or changing the way anybody logs anything.

 

When cachers log their finds, don't many of them also log if they pick up or drop a TB/coin??

Yes, they do. Right now coins that are in caches are displayed like a billboard (I am exaggerating a bit) and can be PQ'd (I believe) which makes it really easy for thieves to get a list and go take them. If they had to dig through each cache page, maybe not so much worth it. It would be a deterrent of sorts and certainly not a fix-all solution. I'm really not trying to make anything harder and I'm really glad to hear this isn't as bad a problem in some other places, but around here is like the black hole of coins (not so much TB's) and I really feel bad for the ones that have logged thousands of miles to come here and disappear I love that this thread is about throwing out ideas (and setbacks) to try to keep coins circulating out there. My husband is fond of saying that I try to save the world one coin at a time

[+ThePetersTrio]

You guys are reading my whole post...right?

 

Again, I'm all for protection, but I cannot get behind something that'll bring on more confusion than good!

 

Yes, I am reading everyone's whole post. I understand what you are saying and I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't want things to be more confusing as much as the next guy, but I would like to continue the discussion. Maybe someone out there has a real easy solution that we haven't considered yet.

[+usyoopers]

I would leave things as they are, I don't like to confuse things! I really don't think there are that many outright coin thieves (maybe I'm just optimistic here). I think the problem is more of newbies that don't know what to do with them or just plain thought they liked the hobby but for one reason or another they just never got out again. Seasoned veterans of the game I think stuff them in their bag and forget about them...for awhile, these will resurface after awhile.

 

A (very) quick look at a couple of my "stalled" coins showed this-

 

A veteran cacher (member since 3/04, 4008 finds) picked up a coin of mine on 9/27 with the log of "will move on soon", he still has it.

 

A new cacher picked up 2 of my coins on 8/28. He hasn't logged on since 8/28 and has 1 whole find- the one he took my coins from!

 

I don't think either one of these people "stole" the coins. The newbie I believe doesn't think it matters, the veteran will someday find the coin in the bottom of his bag and place it again. Hiding the icon from the cache page wouldn't have changed a thing in this scenerio.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

Yes, they do. Right now coins that are in caches are displayed like a billboard (I am exaggerating a bit) and can be PQ'd (I believe) which makes it really easy for thieves to get a list and go take them. If they had to dig through each cache page, maybe not so much worth it. It would be a deterrent of sorts and certainly not a fix-all solution. I'm really not trying to make anything harder and I'm really glad to hear this isn't as bad a problem in some other places, but around here is like the black hole of coins (not so much TB's) and I really feel bad for the ones that have logged thousands of miles to come here and disappear I love that this thread is about throwing out ideas (and setbacks) to try to keep coins circulating out there. My husband is fond of saying that I try to save the world one coin at a time

 

All a thief would need to do is put all the caches in their area on watch and every log is sent to the person. You'd need to stop every single cacher from leaving bug drops out of their logs. You're making it more confusing for owners and movers, while the thieves still get to do what they want!

 

I'm sorry, but I can't think of one thing that'd better the system in play right now.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I would leave things as they are, I don't like to confuse things! I really don't think there are that many outright coin thieves (maybe I'm just optimistic here). I think the problem is more of newbies that don't know what to do with them or just plain thought they liked the hobby but for one reason or another they just never got out again. Seasoned veterans of the game I think stuff them in their bag and forget about them...for awhile, these will resurface after awhile.

 

A (very) quick look at a couple of my "stalled" coins showed this-

 

A veteran cacher (member since 3/04, 4008 finds) picked up a coin of mine on 9/27 with the log of "will move on soon", he still has it.

 

A new cacher picked up 2 of my coins on 8/28. He hasn't logged on since 8/28 and has 1 whole find- the one he took my coins from!

 

I don't think either one of these people "stole" the coins. The newbie I believe doesn't think it matters, the veteran will someday find the coin in the bottom of his bag and place it again. Hiding the icon from the cache page wouldn't have changed a thing in this scenerio.

 

I agree...to a point. When things continue to disappear from an area, it's either a heck of a lot of newbs/misplaced items OR it actually is a thief.

[+Team DeLorme]

What is the preferred method for dropping off a coin like the Eartha Geocoin?

 

For the first few coins I logged the cache where they were left but then I got worried that I was sending an e-mail to the cache owner that a collectable coin had been placed for them to pick up. Not a big deal, but it felt like an unfair advantage.

 

I was also logging the drop-off cache in a note on each particular Eartha Geocoin web page. This also seemed like an unfair advantage for the people watching those pages.

 

I have since been buried under work for the new GPS device and have fallen behind in logging the coins that have been released by others who are traveling. I've been enjoying some very exciting posts by people who weren't looking for geocoins at all but found the Eartha coin in a cache I hadn't updated.

 

So here's your chance to influence how we release the remaining coins... a batch is on its way to our beta testers to release in the wild. I asked them not to announce the drop-off on the particular cache page but to update the particular Eartha Geocoin page with a reference to where the coin was going.

 

Should I pull that last part and just let the coins go without a note so they are a surprise for the next cacher who visits?

 

Should we update both places and let the fastest cacher win? 15 minutes to pick up the first Eartha coin, I'm serious; I just got back in the building when the cacher headed to the “Bears in the Bushes” to make the find.

 

I think this is on topic for the thread... does announcing the presence of the Eartha coin impact how quickly it's taken from the cache?

 

Thanks for your advice!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

[+burgessfour]

Well, this is the one that was stolen TB2EEDR from me. It was a cool coin that I almost didn't send out, but I really wanted to share it and I thought the concept was fun. It was stolen from my friends cache-the first one I put it in. I bought it and activated it and chose it's mission and tagged it well. Can't I have the right to let if "fly under the radar" if I like? Unless I make a coins mission to go from cache to cache but never get logged? Then no mileage and no information gets compiled and cachers don't get to show the icon on their profile. If a coin owner would like the icon not displayed on the cache page (chooses not to show it), I don't really see the harm in that. I think my Flip-A-Friend would have lasted a bit longer that way and many others as well.

Maybe I will do an experiment-I'll activate a coin and have it's mission to go from cache to cache with no logging but whoever moves it please shoot me an email. Thats more "complicated" than just not displaying the icon and we can see if people actually do it. Maybe I have more faith in the "honest " cachers and coin/TB movers than I should and that would be a good test.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Well, this is the one that was stolen TB2EEDR from me. It was a cool coin that I almost didn't send out, but I really wanted to share it and I thought the concept was fun. It was stolen from my friends cache-the first one I put it in. I bought it and activated it and chose it's mission and tagged it well. Can't I have the right to let if "fly under the radar" if I like? Unless I make a coins mission to go from cache to cache but never get logged? Then no mileage and no information gets compiled and cachers don't get to show the icon on their profile. If a coin owner would like the icon not displayed on the cache page (chooses not to show it), I don't really see the harm in that. I think my Flip-A-Friend would have lasted a bit longer that way and many others as well.

Maybe I will do an experiment-I'll activate a coin and have it's mission to go from cache to cache with no logging but whoever moves it please shoot me an email. Thats more "complicated" than just not displaying the icon and we can see if people actually do it. Maybe I have more faith in the "honest " cachers and coin/TB movers than I should and that would be a good test.

 

I would be interested to know how it works for you!!

[+burgessfour]

What is the preferred method for dropping off a coin like the Eartha Geocoin?

 

For the first few coins I logged the cache where they were left but then I got worried that I was sending an e-mail to the cache owner that a collectable coin had been placed for them to pick up. Not a big deal, but it felt like an unfair advantage.

 

I was also logging the drop-off cache in a note on each particular Eartha Geocoin web page. This also seemed like an unfair advantage for the people watching those pages.

 

I have since been buried under work for the new GPS device and have fallen behind in logging the coins that have been released by others who are traveling. I've been enjoying some very exciting posts by people who weren't looking for geocoins at all but found the Eartha coin in a cache I hadn't updated.

 

So here's your chance to influence how we release the remaining coins... a batch is on its way to our beta testers to release in the wild. I asked them not to announce the drop-off on the particular cache page but to update the particular Eartha Geocoin page with a reference to where the coin was going.

 

Should I pull that last part and just let the coins go without a note so they are a surprise for the next cacher who visits?

 

Should we update both places and let the fastest cacher win? 15 minutes to pick up the first Eartha coin, I'm serious; I just got back in the building when the cacher headed to the “Bears in the Bushes” to make the find.

 

I think this is on topic for the thread... does announcing the presence of the Eartha coin impact how quickly it's taken from the cache?

 

Thanks for your advice!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

Hi Chip,

As a lucky finder of one here in Oregon and a debater on this thread I will say that it really all depends on the area I think. Here in the Portland, Oregon area we have a few thieves so actually logging the drop of your coin would probably be the last you ever saw of it. Let them be surprised or be following Team DeLorme's caching activities to be sure that cacher's that appreciate and are willing to share them via discovery (I don't know how many of us will actually be able to let them go) find them.

Shari

[+burgessfour]

Well, this is the one that was stolen TB2EEDR from me. It was a cool coin that I almost didn't send out, but I really wanted to share it and I thought the concept was fun. It was stolen from my friends cache-the first one I put it in. I bought it and activated it and chose it's mission and tagged it well. Can't I have the right to let if "fly under the radar" if I like? Unless I make a coins mission to go from cache to cache but never get logged? Then no mileage and no information gets compiled and cachers don't get to show the icon on their profile. If a coin owner would like the icon not displayed on the cache page (chooses not to show it), I don't really see the harm in that. I think my Flip-A-Friend would have lasted a bit longer that way and many others as well.

Maybe I will do an experiment-I'll activate a coin and have it's mission to go from cache to cache with no logging but whoever moves it please shoot me an email. Thats more "complicated" than just not displaying the icon and we can see if people actually do it. Maybe I have more faith in the "honest " cachers and coin/TB movers than I should and that would be a good test.

 

I would be interested to know how it works for you!!

Olay, I'll bite! TB2BAT6

I am curious as well, so I will let you know when I set it free Maybe tomorrow in the cache by my work.....

Editing to add that I will send you any emails I get....

Edited November 20, 2008 by burgessfour

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I was thinking of one problem, since I recently had to make a decision of whether or not to pay $150 for a custom Icon. Since an icon costs that much, what is the responsibility of Groundspeak to those who have shelled out their money? If you remove the icons from the Cache page, then what have I paid for? I think most who have had coins made,expect tha Icon they bought to be displayed in the places it was sold to be displayed in.

 

My point is that I certainly did not pay $150 for an Icon that will only be displayed on profile pages.

 

Of course, that does not help to solve the theft problem. I think that the root of the problem is that what's good for Groundspeak to grow their customer base(massive, widespread interest in the game) may not be the best thing for the health of the way we like to play the game.

 

Too bad for us, since there will always be enough new people interested in the game, that what's healthy for the game itself will not matter. I guess it will matter when people stop having coins made, or buying Icons.

 

That brings up a thought...Maybe the maker/owner of a Coin can be allowed CHOOSE to have no Icon?

[+burgessfour]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I was thinking of one problem, since I recently had to make a decision of whether or not to pay $150 for a custom Icon. Since an icon costs that much, what is the responsibility of Groundspeak to those who have shelled out their money? If you remove the icons from the Cache page, then what have I paid for? I think most who have had coins made,expect tha Icon they bought to be displayed in the places it was sold to be displayed in.

 

My point is that I certainly did not pay $150 for an Icon that will only be displayed on profile pages.

 

Of course, that does not help to solve the theft problem. I think that the root of the problem is that what's good for Groundspeak to grow their customer base(massive, widespread interest in the game) may not be the best thing for the health of the way we like to play the game.

 

Too bad for us, since there will always be enough new people interested in the game, that what's healthy for the game itself will not matter. I guess it will matter when people stop having coins made, or buying Icons.

 

That brings up a thought...Maybe the maker/owner of a Coin can be allowed CHOOSE to have no Icon?

 

As a coin buyer I would assume that the extra $$$'d in getting the custom icon is passed on to us. I usually see that custom icons are done when coins pre-sold reach 250 or more which, to me, means the profits are worth having it done. I have never until this thread, seen this as an ego thing by coinmakers??? But I am farily new at this so I guess I always thought the individual icon was for the buyers/finders/discoverer's of the coin to show how many different coins they have discovered. Maybe I am wrong....

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I think this is on topic for the thread... does announcing the presence of the Eartha coin impact how quickly it's taken from the cache?

 

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

Yes, I think it does. As in the recent MRJiffy's Summer Meltdown, when there is a highly desireable coin dropped, some will rush out to grab it as soon as possible. I placed them all on my watchlist so I would be notified if any were near me. Think of it just like the FTF hounds.

[+BlueDeuce]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I was thinking of one problem, since I recently had to make a decision of whether or not to pay $150 for a custom Icon. Since an icon costs that much, what is the responsibility of Groundspeak to those who have shelled out their money? If you remove the icons from the Cache page, then what have I paid for? I think most who have had coins made,expect tha Icon they bought to be displayed in the places it was sold to be displayed in.

 

My point is that I certainly did not pay $150 for an Icon that will only be displayed on profile pages.

 

Of course, that does not help to solve the theft problem. I think that the root of the problem is that what's good for Groundspeak to grow their customer base(massive, widespread interest in the game) may not be the best thing for the health of the way we like to play the game.

 

Too bad for us, since there will always be enough new people interested in the game, that what's healthy for the game itself will not matter. I guess it will matter when people stop having coins made, or buying Icons.

 

That brings up a thought...Maybe the maker/owner of a Coin can be allowed CHOOSE to have no Icon?

 

Then, correct me if I'm wrong, coins and icons are not the same thing as travel bugs.

Edited November 20, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+burgessfour]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I was thinking of one problem, since I recently had to make a decision of whether or not to pay $150 for a custom Icon. Since an icon costs that much, what is the responsibility of Groundspeak to those who have shelled out their money? If you remove the icons from the Cache page, then what have I paid for? I think most who have had coins made,expect tha Icon they bought to be displayed in the places it was sold to be displayed in.

 

My point is that I certainly did not pay $150 for an Icon that will only be displayed on profile pages.

 

Of course, that does not help to solve the theft problem. I think that the root of the problem is that what's good for Groundspeak to grow their customer base(massive, widespread interest in the game) may not be the best thing for the health of the way we like to play the game.

 

Too bad for us, since there will always be enough new people interested in the game, that what's healthy for the game itself will not matter. I guess it will matter when people stop having coins made, or buying Icons.

 

That brings up a thought...Maybe the maker/owner of a Coin can be allowed CHOOSE to have no Icon?

I think you can....At least not a custom one..... Edited November 20, 2008 by burgessfour