Micro caches are getting out of control

November 19, 2008

What I want to know is since everyone uses digital cameras these days where are all of these film cans coming from?

There must be some film-can super-salesman out there, like the salesman that convinced all those states up north that they needed mile-markers every tenth of a mile instead of every mile. You know he had to win the sign-salesman of the year award!

Maybe the two activities are related: Put mile-markers every 0.1 miles, then hide a film canister behind each one!

November 19, 2008

:D

9.3k · November 19, 2008

Vinny, I found your list quite interesting, but it seems a rather complicated way of doing things.

Can't we just beat folks with lemmings till they quit?

We could follow that up by spreading the rumor, "Every time you hide a film canister, Gaia kills a kitten"

The problem should resolve itself in no time.

10.2k · November 19, 2008

What I want to know is since everyone uses digital cameras these days where are all of these film cans coming from?

There must be some film-can super-salesman out there, like the salesman that convinced all those states up north that they needed mile-markers every tenth of a mile instead of every mile. You know he had to win the sign-salesman of the year award!

LOL, I've wondered that myself! Are people buying film just for the canisters?

The problem with micros isn't the size of the cache itself, but that the size makes it so easy to make a lazy hide. It's not the containers fault it's hidden under a lamp post skirt. My very first find was a nano, but it was well placed, a challenge to get to and find, and well worth it. Micros can be fun, but they are also overused by people who are too lazy to spend the time making some good camo for their urban micro.

Um, you can get them free at Costco if you ask the film counter, got about 500 that way...

I've heard rumors of such things in the past, but when I went to the local Rite-Aid photo center (no more than 6 months ago) to ask for some, they looked at me like I was from another planet.

So didja hide one of them at Costco?

20.7k · November 19, 2008

I've done a number of very well done, scenic, well thought out water-tight micros over the years.

Nothing wrong with the size.

Sadly, I would have to agree that the majority of "object thrown out the window in a bush" type caches are micros. But size is not the problem.

Exactly! There are some micros that are great, and a good number that are just fine, but unfortunately, the vast majority of lame caches do also fall into the micro category.

And yes, a seeker can choose to avoid all micros, perhaps by setting pocket query (PQ) options to eliminate all micros, but then they will also miss some very good caches as well, and so that is not an ideal solution.

Clan Riffster uses a variation on that plan that works very well for him. As I remember it, his primary PQs return no micros. As he receives notification emails, he reviews the the cache pages. Micros that look interesting get put on a bookmark list which he runs an additional PQ on.

In fact, much as Briansnat has stated on the forum several times, when it comes to micros, it often takes an on-site visit to determine whether a given micro is lame or not.

BS is also on record as not making any attempts to avoid caches that he doesn't like. If you make no attempts at prescreening caches that don't interest you, all you are left with is a site visit.

November 19, 2008

What I want to know is since everyone uses digital cameras these days where are all of these film cans coming from?

There must be some film-can super-salesman out there, like the salesman that convinced all those states up north that they needed mile-markers every tenth of a mile instead of every mile. You know he had to win the sign-salesman of the year award!

If you want to find some film canisters, just go into your local walgreens, cvs, wally mart, or any store that does photo processing. They will gladly hand you over a bag of them things.

Oh, wait a minute, did I just enable even more micros to be born? Dang it all...

November 20, 2008

What I want to know is since everyone uses digital cameras these days where are all of these film cans coming from?

There must be some film-can super-salesman out there, like the salesman that convinced all those states up north that they needed mile-markers every tenth of a mile instead of every mile. You know he had to win the sign-salesman of the year award!

LOL, I've wondered that myself! Are people buying film just for the canisters?

The problem with micros isn't the size of the cache itself, but that the size makes it so easy to make a lazy hide. It's not the containers fault it's hidden under a lamp post skirt. My very first find was a nano, but it was well placed, a challenge to get to and find, and well worth it. Micros can be fun, but they are also overused by people who are too lazy to spend the time making some good camo for their urban micro.

I agree. Micros are fine if they're well thought out and are a challenge to find. I found a micro the other day inside a home made sprinkler head. This cacher didn't just throw a bison tube up in the trees. Just depends on how much effort was put into it.

6.5k · November 20, 2008

After this thread runs its course, it will be time for another 'I hate lame swag' thread. Just remember, only larger caches can support lame swag. Micros have no room for lame swag.

It's all about balance. And keeping my post count below my find count.

1.5k · November 20, 2008

What I want to know is since everyone uses digital cameras these days where are all of these film cans coming from?

There must be some film-can super-salesman out there, like the salesman that convinced all those states up north that they needed mile-markers every tenth of a mile instead of every mile. You know he had to win the sign-salesman of the year award!

I think they are coming from all those shoppers who still write out a check when paying for their purchases in stores They are firmly stuck in the 90's......

November 20, 2008

Micro caches are getting out of control

Well, I've never been mugged by one, but they sure hang out in some unsavory areas. I'd be warry, but wouldn't say they are out of control just yet.

10.2k · November 20, 2008

What I want to know is since everyone uses digital cameras these days where are all of these film cans coming from?

There must be some film-can super-salesman out there, like the salesman that convinced all those states up north that they needed mile-markers every tenth of a mile instead of every mile. You know he had to win the sign-salesman of the year award!

I think they are coming from all those shoppers who still write out a check when paying for their purchases in stores They are firmly stuck in the 90's......

Man, thank goodness I haven't seen that since the 90's. That used to annoy me beyond comprehension. Almost as much as micros! (Just kidding). The cashier could have completed 5 cash transactions in the time it took a check writer.

38.2k · November 20, 2008

BS is also on record as not making any attempts to avoid caches that he doesn't like. If you make no attempts at prescreening caches that don't interest you, all you are left with is a site visit.

I still haven't found a good method to avoid caches that I don't like beyond visiting the site. As I've stated countless times, I like good urban caches, I like good micros, heck I've even found some outstanding parking lot caches and caches hidden behind McDonalds. What I dislike are caches placed for the sake of placing a cache. The cache page rarely tells me this (though I have seen a handful that do).

14.3k · November 20, 2008

BS is also on record as not making any attempts to avoid caches that he doesn't like. If you make no attempts at prescreening caches that don't interest you, all you are left with is a site visit.

I still haven't found a good method to avoid caches that I don't like beyond visiting the site. As I've stated countless times, I like good urban caches, I like good micros, heck I've even found some outstanding parking lot caches and caches hidden behind McDonalds. What I dislike are caches placed for the sake of placing a cache. The cache page rarely tells me this (though I have seen a handful that do).

I haven't found a good way either.

P.S. Great quote about the American Republic. That is so true....

20.7k · November 20, 2008

BS is also on record as not making any attempts to avoid caches that he doesn't like. If you make no attempts at prescreening caches that don't interest you, all you are left with is a site visit.

I still haven't found a good method to avoid caches that I don't like beyond visiting the site. As I've stated countless times, I like good urban caches, I like good micros, heck I've even found some outstanding parking lot caches and caches hidden behind McDonalds. What I dislike are caches placed for the sake of placing a cache. The cache page rarely tells me this (though I have seen a handful that do).

If all you care about is that hide motivations of the cache owner, you are always going to be out of luck. A site visit will not give you this information. Edited November 20, 2008 by sbell111

November 20, 2008

Maybe the two activities are related: Put mile-markers every 0.1 miles, then hide a film canister behind each one!

From the listing guidelines:

Cache Saturation

The reviewers use a rule of thumb that caches placed within .10 miles (528 feet or 161 metres) of another cache may not be published on the site.

Could we convince them to place the markers at an interval of 529 ft?

November 20, 2008

Could we convince them to place the markers at an interval of 529 ft?

And what about curvy roads? 1/10 of a mile as the crow flies could be less than the mile markers.

3.7k · November 20, 2008

Actually, that "cache saturation" guideline is way out of date, and causes the main problem here. It was brought in when all caches were at least sandwich-box size. The problem with lame micros is that they're too far apart, because the guideline doesn't take into account their reduced size.

If you had the "cache saturation" limit correctly in proportion, you'd be allowed to set them up within about 50 feet of each other. Then you'd only have a few short steps between disappointments, rather than having to waste ten minutes each time.

In an area affected by nano-spew™ it would be even better, as they could be about 4 feet apart. You could be disappointed by fifty or sixty lame hides in only a few minutes, and then get on with something much more worthwhile for the rest of the day (where this falls down is that it takes ten minutes per hide to sign the log). :laughing:

14.3k · November 20, 2008

Actually, that "cache saturation" guideline is way out of date, and causes the main problem here. It was brought in when all caches were at least sandwich-box size. The problem with lame micros is that they're too far apart, because the guideline doesn't take into account their reduced size.

If you had the "cache saturation" limit correctly in proportion, you'd be allowed to set them up within about 50 feet of each other. Then you'd only have a few short steps between disappointments, rather than having to waste ten minutes each time.

In an area affected by nano-spew™ it would be even better, as they could be about 4 feet apart. You could be disappointed by fifty or sixty lame hides in only a few minutes, and then get on with something much more worthwhile for the rest of the day (where this falls down is that it takes ten minutes per hide to sign the log).

That was funny! :laughing:

November 20, 2008

Last evening, three micros broke into my grandmother's apartment. They didn't take anything because they didn't have room. We called the police but they said they almost never find them.

Micros are getting out of control. :laughing:

3.9k · November 20, 2008

BS is also on record as not making any attempts to avoid caches that he doesn't like. If you make no attempts at prescreening caches that don't interest you, all you are left with is a site visit.

I still haven't found a good method to avoid caches that I don't like beyond visiting the site. As I've stated countless times, I like good urban caches, I like good micros, heck I've even found some outstanding parking lot caches and caches hidden behind McDonalds. What I dislike are caches placed for the sake of placing a cache. The cache page rarely tells me this (though I have seen a handful that do).

I agree one hundred percent with Briansnat. Here is just one -- albeit very sick -- example. For a trip that I was making to SW MI a year or two ago, Sue and I carefully pre-selected a number of caches in the area -- many of them puzzles that she had solved -- that she preloaded onto my GPSr for me; there were over twenty caches in total that she preloaded onto my GPSr and for which she gave me copies of the cache listing pages. Once I was in the area, a friend and I started to hunt those caches. Of the 20+ caches, the majority turned out to be either very nasty and stupid hides (i.e., a 1/1 urban micro hidden inside a hollow aluminum lamp post from which the electrical access cover had been removed, with exposed bare wire terminals and a wasp's nest inside), or blatantly illegal hides (believe me, you do NOT want to hear the details, they were THAT bad!), and we discovered this only after arriving at the hide sites, whereupon we decided, in the case of each of the nasty/dumb or illegal hides, to abort the hunt. All in all, I think that only six or seven of the 20-plus caches on my list were "okay", that is, not dumb and nasty 1/1 micros, or not illegal. sad.... very sad... (I have since received a number of PMs and private emails from cachers in that area, acknowledging that there is indeed a "known problem" with numerous bad/illegal hides in that particular city.)

November 21, 2008

I might as well toss in my two cents on this subject. Sure, you can filter out micros, select which ones you think might not be lame, or whatever filter you may want to use to avoid these "evil" things. I dont really care what type of container it is I find. Im out there for the thrill of the hunt and to view the place the hider has brought me to. Once I find whatever container it may be, I would rather just say, "yep, I found it" and walk away. Its usually just worthless random crap that people find lost under the seat of their station wagon that is inside the larger cache containers anyway.

9.3k · November 21, 2008

Its usually just worthless random crap that people find lost under the seat of their station wagon that is inside the larger cache containers anyway.

OK, I'll make a mental note to never cache in Saginaw. :laughing:

38.2k · November 21, 2008

BS is also on record as not making any attempts to avoid caches that he doesn't like. If you make no attempts at prescreening caches that don't interest you, all you are left with is a site visit.

I still haven't found a good method to avoid caches that I don't like beyond visiting the site. As I've stated countless times, I like good urban caches, I like good micros, heck I've even found some outstanding parking lot caches and caches hidden behind McDonalds. What I dislike are caches placed for the sake of placing a cache. The cache page rarely tells me this (though I have seen a handful that do).

If all you care about is that hide motivations of the cache owner, you are always going to be out of luck. A site visit will not give you this information.

:laughing:

2.2k · November 21, 2008

Once I was in the area, a friend and I started to hunt those caches. Of the 20+ caches, the majority turned out to be either very nasty and stupid hides (i.e., a 1/1 urban micro hidden inside a hollow aluminum lamp post from which the electrical access cover had been removed, with exposed bare wire terminals and a wasp's nest inside), or blatantly illegal hides (believe me, you do NOT want to hear the details, they were THAT bad!), and we discovered this only after arriving at the hide sites, whereupon we decided, in the case of each of the nasty/dumb or illegal hides, to abort the hunt. All in all, I think that only six or seven of the 20-plus caches on my list were "okay", that is, not dumb and nasty 1/1 micros, or not illegal. sad.... very sad... (I have since received a number of PMs and private emails from cachers in that area, acknowledging that there is indeed a "known problem" with numerous bad/illegal hides in that particular city.)

At the risk of having my eyebrows singed off by some uraniaum-derivative-powered heat-generating device, what does one do in this situation? Would it be reasonable (though time-consuming, I know) to put "needs maintenance" logs on the nasty wasp-ridden caches and to straight-up report the illegal ones to the reviewer?

V&S, I'm not accusing you of not having done so, mind you -- it's an honest, straight-up question.

Also, were all of those caches nanos or micros?

(I've got three micros in my area, one created by me:

Forgotten Gate [haven't seen this one yet but it looks really cool and I want to go find it soon]

Jasper's Duck Pond

Hon-to-O-Bento (A Book & A Box Lunch) [this one's mine]

I like them all, even mine. So I have no problems with micros or nanos, though I give my preference to larger caches because I like to trade swag, and generally only go after the micros/nanos if the description is interesting. Then again, we in Misawa are not suffering from cache bloat either. There are perhaps three or four active cachers in the area that I know of.)

20.7k · November 21, 2008

At the risk of having my eyebrows singed off by some uraniaum-derivative-powered heat-generating device, what does one do in this situation? Would it be reasonable (though time-consuming, I know) to put "needs maintenance" logs on the nasty wasp-ridden caches and to straight-up report the illegal ones to the reviewer?

I'm not sure that a wasp nest near a cache is really a maintenance issue, but the log can't really hurt anything, so go ahead. Caches believed to be illegal should be acted on. If there is any possible doubt, an initial polite email to the cache owner would probably be a wise first step. Otherwise, the SBA log is available for a reason.

November 21, 2008

Micros are great traditional caches and can be varied in many ways. As for you, I think you need to get a life... filter the caches you don't like and search for those caches you prefer. There are enough other caches to go around and you can leave the micros to those who like a challenge. Good luck and happy hunting.

November 21, 2008

i agree.im from vegas and thats just about all there is unless your in a relatively huge park or your out in the wetlands or at the lake.Im thirteen and i find my caches via bicycle.i dont think ima ride a good 30 miles to find a big cache.but i will say that some of the smallies(micros) are pretty fun and challenging.they need to stop being hid under those little light pole boxes though.

this is a highly oppinionated question so i would have to go with taking them away.

6.7k · November 21, 2008

....they need to stop being hid under those little light pole boxes though.

this is a highly oppinionated question so i would have to go with taking them away.

Opinions are what forums are for. That's cool. Just keep in mind that not everyone shares yours. Because you don't like something means only that you shouldn't hunt that something, not that they need to go.

I hope that by "taking them away" you don't mean that you would ever take a cache you didn't like.

I load a PQ of 500 caches in my target area and go from one to the next, wherever it may be. The icon on the GPS tells me if it's a puzzle or multi or 4+ terrain, if it is I likely pass right on by. I don't care for those types, so I don't hunt them. But I don't tell other people that they shouldn't be allowed. As I mentioned to you in the other thread... take control of what you hunt!

The key to enjoying this game (and the rest of your life!) is attitude. With the exceptions noted above I hunt them all. I don't read the description unless I can't find the cache. It's a rare cache where I can't find something enjoyable about the experience. Caching is therefore fun for me because what and where the cache is really doesn't matter! Some are better than others, but they are all fun. A happy attitude of accepting the world as it is and leaving it better than you found it will go a long way to making yourself and the folks around you happy!

14.3k · November 22, 2008

....they need to stop being hid under those little light pole boxes though.

The key to enjoying this game (and the rest of your life!) is attitude. With the exceptions noted above I hunt them all. I don't read the description unless I can't find the cache. It's a rare cache where I can't find something enjoyable about the experience. Caching is therefore fun for me because what and where the cache is really doesn't matter! Some are better than others, but they are all fun. A happy attitude of accepting the world as it is and leaving it better than you found it will go a long way to making yourself and the folks around you happy!

I agree that attitude is really important, but is boredom really an attitude? I personally think it would be a good thing for the game, if there was an easy way let you filter for caches that have excited lots of people. I think that idea would even motivate more people to make caches that are more fun.

8k · November 22, 2008

....they need to stop being hid under those little light pole boxes though.

The key to enjoying this game (and the rest of your life!) is attitude. With the exceptions noted above I hunt them all. I don't read the description unless I can't find the cache. It's a rare cache where I can't find something enjoyable about the experience. Caching is therefore fun for me because what and where the cache is really doesn't matter! Some are better than others, but they are all fun. A happy attitude of accepting the world as it is and leaving it better than you found it will go a long way to making yourself and the folks around you happy!

I agree that attitude is really important, but is boredom really an attitude? I personally think it would be a good thing for the game, if there was an easy way let you filter for caches that have excited lots of people. I think that idea would even motivate more people to make caches that are more fun.

Generally if I am looking for a single cache I'm not looking in parking lots so I'm not going to find a LPC. I generally do find a boring tupperware container under a bush or a pile of rocks. But I can always say that the hike to the cache was enjoyable. When urban caching I try to find something enjoyable as well. Often I do this kind of caching with a group and can say that the company was enjoyable, but even on my own, I will often find that exploring a part of town I'm not familiar with can be fun. I'll note the stores in the mini-mall where the cache was hidden in case I'm back this way again. I'll watch the people going about there business unaware of the cache. I'll find out where streets go that I've only known from freeway offramps. And if I'm looking in a familiar area, and find a cache that makes me wonder why it was hidden, I really haven't wasted much time. I'll go on to the next cache. And when I stop having fun, I stop for the day. It really isn't hard to have a good attitude when hunting a cache.

14.3k · November 22, 2008

When urban caching I try to find something enjoyable as well. Often I do this kind of caching with a group and can say that the company was enjoyable

Urban caching in groups is more fun for me. I'll go wherever the group goes chatting and having fun and signing the logbooks on the caches I enjoy. Edited November 22, 2008 by TrailGators

November 24, 2008

I have to agree, in northern Utah there have been a huge rash of micros hidden lately. I think there is a time and a place for these, however, they should be used sparingly. Two pet peeves I have are: 1. Micros hidden where there are perfectly good hiding spots for a regular sized container. 2. Micros saturating an area which are hidden all by the same person. It's a shame when one person dominates an entire area with micros, makes it hard for other cachers to hide new/different caches in an area they enjoy.

14.3k · November 24, 2008

I have to agree, in northern Utah there have been a huge rash of micros hidden lately. I think there is a time and a place for these, however, they should be used sparingly. Two pet peeves I have are: 1. Micros hidden where there are perfectly good hiding spots for a regular sized container. 2. Micros saturating an area which are hidden all by the same person. It's a shame when one person dominates an entire area with micros, makes it hard for other cachers to hide new/different caches in an area they enjoy.

It's gotten to the point in many areas where you are better off filtering out all micros in PQs. If there happens to be one on a must-do or favorites bookmark list you can load that bookmark list on top of your PQ. I admit it'scutting with a dull knife but it's the only knife we have.

November 26, 2008

I think we need more micros and nanos.

Just think about it...

First of all , if 90% - 95% of all hides were either micros or nanos they could change the distance from 528 feet down to 150 feet between caches.

That would increase how many caches per square mile by "a lot" (just ruff numbers).

Then, if you are in it for the numbers, you could be doing 150 to 200 per week.

You would no longer worry about having good coords. All you would need to do is get in the area and start looking.

This would also would mean that every rock, leaf, or twig could be holding a cache.

Muggles would now include dogs, cats, squirrels, raccoons and snakes. So good placement would be needed.

There are many more reasons why more is better, but I think you get the idea. :unsure:

Micro caches are getting out of control

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