Garmin vs DeLorme

[+Team CowboyPapa]

....the PN-series is dependent on the Topo USA software for its communication conduit to the world.

But that's only for about another month, embra:

.......... when DeLorme makes their Cache Register available, projected for late December?

http://blog.delorme.com/2008/11/11/geocach...pc/#comment-631

 

But not to worry, embra, what is to be a reality within a month will never be a reality if you don't want it to be.

[+dakboy]

However, your larger point stands: since no one has devoted the considerable time and effort to do something with it, the PN-series is dependent on the Topo USA software for its communication conduit to the world.

 

So if I read this right, I can't just hit the "send to GPS" button on GC.com and have it go to the PN-40? It has to go through Topo first? Seems kinda clunkly and not user friendly.

Only Garmin has the "send to GPS" functionality w/ GC.com at this time (Lowrance & Magellan are in the same boat as DeLorme there), but as I understand it DeLorme is working on adding this.

 

Oh yeah, plus the Cache Register application coming soon.

Edited December 2, 2008 by dakboy

[Neos2]

my family is looking for a new unit to buy. We have narrowed out search down to 2 units. The Garmin 60CSx and the DeLORME PN40. We are interested in Geocaching and fishing. I know the Garmin unit can do both. Have heard very little on the PN-40 and lake maps. Does anyone have knowlegde of the PN-40 preformance for fishing?

Just to be clear, I'm not in anyones camp; Garmin or Delorme. From my own research Garmin does have "inland lake maps" to purchase. But a big but here, it's not going to show your "backyard pond", it just has major lakes. I just use my GPSr to get to the lake- pond and let my hook do the rest. That said, IMHO the PN40 is going to get you there in more detail then the garmin. Both should hopefully "on a big lake" get you back to shore. As for fishing performance, I wish I had a gps that could help me with that

The lake coverage may vary by area. My Garmin city and topo maps show the tiny little private lake that belongs to my ex-father-in-law. It was made from a small gulley that ran into a fairly minor creek. There are five homes on the lake, to give you an idea of the size. The lake isn't named on the map, but it does show up.

[+embra]

So if I read this right, I can't just hit the "send to GPS" button on GC.com and have it go to the PN-40? It has to go through Topo first? Seems kinda clunkly and not user friendly.

You can't do that today, but I expect you can soon.

We are working with Geocaching.com to deliver a Send to GPS plug-in that will work on both the Mac and the PC, allowing everyone to transfer geocaches directly to their device without Topo USA in the middle.

Edited December 2, 2008 by embra

[Neos2]

I'd like to hear more about the type of cache page information that can be displayed on the 40.

 

One person says "It's totally paperless" and the next person says "It only shows limited information"

 

I can use GSAK with my 60 CSx to show me the cache ID, the difficulty and terrain, the type of container, the size of the container, when it was last found, and a part of the hint. (Or other things, like the cache owner's name or when it was placed ...but those are what I'm using right now). I send complete cache pages, including hints and the last 5 logs to a PDA. Between the two devices, I really do have all the info I need with me at the cache-and I can get it all on the 60 CSx in under two minutes after my PQ runs.

 

If I preview the caches, I can even decide to add photos to the PDA as needed for puzzle pages. I supose I could include some aerial images in the photos if I really wanted a few for some reason.

 

What info can I get on the 40 --and how much effort is it to get it there?

[+embra]

The link in my previous post shows some things that the PN-series do right now, and some things that are in the pipeline. The Topo7 software can accept a pocket query gpx file and send it to the PN-40 inside of 3 minutes or so without manipulation. Delorme does not have a specialized waypoint format for geocaches, but rather just puts all the information into the waypoint comment (see link). Currently the comment allows for 800 characters...so longer descriptions can get truncated. Delorme intends to extend that limit soon so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

The comment shown in the link shows terrain, difficulty, cache container, hint, and description. The most recent logs are included if there's rooms. If you run the gpx file through GSAK, you can get any special tags you want into the comment. No photos...unless you keep the PDA.

 

My only complaints about the current style is that uncoded hints are up front to make sure they don't get chopped off at the end (they're hard to overlook) and all the text sort of flows together. The unique format qualities of geocache data in the Garmins allows for a little better organization and access of hints and other data. Still, it works well, and when the 800 character limit is lifted it should be even better.

 

Edit to add: When I started caching with my PN-20, I kept my PDA with Cachemate on it. After a while I decided that I needed the Cachemate rarely enough that I felt comfortable going with the PN-20 alone for the most part...although I would still want the PDA for those rare caches I would find that overflowed the 800 character limit. I'll be able to drop it completely when the limit is lifted.

Edited December 2, 2008 by embra

[Neos2]

The link in my previous post shows some things that the PN-series do right now, and some things that are in the pipeline.

Looks interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Will the TOPO7 software accept information form GSAK, or do I have to put the entire PQ into the unit. Is there an (easy) way to edit caches from the PQ? (I am guessing I can open the map on the computer and delete some of the caches before I send the info to my gps--but is there a better way?)

[+3doxies]

Yes Topo 7 wiil accept output (.gpx) from GSAK with no problems. Our GSAK base has >5000 caches: over the elast few days, I've sent as many as 942 caches and as few as 5 to T7 via GSAK exports, just depending on the filter criteria used.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I'd like to hear more about the type of cache page information that can be displayed on the 40.

 

One person says "It's totally paperless" .....

That's me. However, I do bring a pen to sign the log.

 

 

........ the next person says "It only shows limited information"

I have no idea what is meant by that. So......

1. I download the GPX file to my PC,

2. I open the Topo 7 application and import the GPX into the Topo 7's database as a Waypoint.

3. With my PN-40 connected to the PC's USB port, I transfer the Waypoint.

4. By default it includes everthing but the cache ID, up to 800 characters, includes

4a. difficulty and terrain, the type of container, the size of the container, with the hint moved forward ahead of the commentary,

4b. If the commentary is not too long, the remaining 800 will be filled with the log entries.

5. For those with substantial commentaries, I edit out extraneous material from the commentary from within the Topo 7 application, it is a slightly tedious select-highlight and delete process.

 

Yes, it is completely paperless and I use nothing that did not come in the box.

 

Note that the above all changes with the arrival later this month of Cache Register later this month.

 

Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer.

[+embra]

Is there an (easy) way to edit caches from the PQ? (I am guessing I can open the map on the computer and delete some of the caches before I send the info to my gps--but is there a better way?)

You can add or delete waypoints in Topo7, which deals with them in draw layers. You can also directly edit the comments of any waypoints.

 

There is no filtering capability such as in GSAK, which remains the premier waypoint database management tool.

[+Team DeLorme]

For the third time ... the PN-40 will not accept anything but the most fundamental GPX files. Even for run of the mill GPX files, it must go through Topo 7. To be perfectly succinct ... in terms of route planning and caching efficiency, DeLorme and the PN-40 are literally years behind the competition.

Thank you for your interest, our Geocaching.com Initiative is still in development. We plan to make things available for the holidays, as an update for those receiving new Earthmate PN-Series as gifts along with those that have already begun using their new devices.

 

Our firmware update will deliver geocaching functionality to use GC.com Cache Type symbols as well as provide streamlined Route functionality and "Log Your Geocache Find" options.

 

We'll be testing our Send to GPS plug-in for the Geocaching.com site soon and are very excited to add that functionality to the GC.com site.

 

Our Cache Register widget will deliver the ability to search for and send geocache lists to the device as well as import Pocket Queries from GC.com. We've provided options for controlling which cache details are sent to the comment field as well as what order they are displayed. We've provided the ability to label by Cache Name or Cache ID too.

 

Please let me know if you have any specific questions about our plans for supporting Geocaching.com with the Earthmate PN-Series devices. We realize there are a lot of questions and excitement about the upcoming release and don't want anyone to get frustrated while we work through the last stages of development.

 

Thank you,

 

Chip Noble

DeLorme

[jholly]

For the third time ... the PN-40 will not accept anything but the most fundamental GPX files. Even for run of the mill GPX files, it must go through Topo 7. To be perfectly succinct ... in terms of route planning and caching efficiency, DeLorme and the PN-40 are literally years behind the competition.

Thank you for your interest, our Geocaching.com Initiative is still in development. We plan to make things available for the holidays, as an update for those receiving new Earthmate PN-Series as gifts along with those that have already begun using their new devices.

 

Our firmware update will deliver geocaching functionality to use GC.com Cache Type symbols as well as provide streamlined Route functionality and "Log Your Geocache Find" options.

 

We'll be testing our Send to GPS plug-in for the Geocaching.com site soon and are very excited to add that functionality to the GC.com site.

 

Our Cache Register widget will deliver the ability to search for and send geocache lists to the device as well as import Pocket Queries from GC.com. We've provided options for controlling which cache details are sent to the comment field as well as what order they are displayed. We've provided the ability to label by Cache Name or Cache ID too.

 

Please let me know if you have any specific questions about our plans for supporting Geocaching.com with the Earthmate PN-Series devices. We realize there are a lot of questions and excitement about the upcoming release and don't want anyone to get frustrated while we work through the last stages of development.

 

Thank you,

 

Chip Noble

DeLorme

 

now if you can get it to play nice with GSAK ...

 

Jim

[+RRLover]

 

now if you can get it to play nice with GSAK ...

 

Jim

It would seem; . . . that the major functions of GSAK (as used by "the casual user"), will be superfluous

to a similar user operating an PN-XX device, via the "new schema" as proposed by DeLorme. And if it doesn't

present the same flexibility right away, it is quite plausible that it will in due time.

 

Norm

[+Timpat]

Please let me know if you have any specific questions about our plans for supporting Geocaching.com with the Earthmate PN-Series devices. We realize there are a lot of questions and excitement about the upcoming release and don't want anyone to get frustrated while we work through the last stages of development.

 

Thank you,

 

Chip Noble

DeLorme

Well, I'm a long time Garmin user and have been following these pages with great interest. I've got to say you guys at Delorme are awesome! I'm impressed to say the least with the direct communication from Chip Noble and others at Delorme. This is refreshing to see. You may well have a new convert here. (Garmin, are you listening?) Keep up the great work Team Delorme!

[+Cog&Gil]

I'll be placing an order for the PN-40 as soon as the "send to GPS plug-in" from the Geocaching.com site becomes availablel. I use that for cache entry on my 60CSx more than any other method. Hope I don't have to wait too long. Sounds like an awesome unit.

[yogazoo]

Question/Rant:

 

What on earth does "Jake" at "Garmin Blogs" do? Is that guy just completely worthless or what? Jake is never on any user forums talking about anything! If that guy does any blogging at all he would figure out what users dont like about the new Garmins and talk to the engineering guys to get it fixed.

 

Jake is always so enthnused about the new products Garmin puts out and it just makes me wonder, does that guy really use GPS's or is he just some feel-good blogging nerd who was hired by Garmin do alot of BS-ing?

 

In contrast Delorme has Chip and others who actually go out and use these units, engage other users, and know what they're talking about.

Edited December 2, 2008 by yogazoo

[+trainlove]

I'll be placing an order for the PN-40 as soon as the "send to GPS plug-in" from the Geocaching.com site becomes availablel.

Sorry, but you'll have to ask Delorme to create such functionality. Geocaching.com didn't create the Garmin one, Garmin did. Magellan is just too clueless to offer similar things. Other makers, I just don't know.

[+Team DeLorme]

I'll be placing an order for the PN-40 as soon as the "send to GPS plug-in" from the Geocaching.com site becomes availablel.

Sorry, but you'll have to ask Delorme to create such functionality. Geocaching.com didn't create the Garmin one, Garmin did. Magellan is just too clueless to offer similar things. Other makers, I just don't know.

 

To quote Chip above:

 

"We'll be testing our Send to GPS plug-in for the Geocaching.com site soon and are very excited to add that functionality to the GC.com site."

 

We're hoping to have it out there as a Christmas present for all the PN-series toting geocachers out there.

 

-Brian

 

Team DeLorme

[+Maingray]

Magellan (310!) and Garmin user (Legend C, Vista HCX, Oregon) here since 2002, recently bought a PN-40. Not in love yet.

 

At the moment, to be fair it is not totally paperless "out the box". Almost. But limited at the moment to <800 characters per cache, and no handling of found / unfound etc. You can do better with a POI GSAK macro and an "X" Garmin unit, as Tigerz is trying to say. Only the Colorado and Oregon are what I would consider totally paperless at the moment out the box. An imminent update promises to bring the PNs up to par with those (no limit on description, view sections of the cache page, hints, past logs, log as found / DNF / unattempted etc, generate field notes etc). We'll have to see how that goes, I'm hopeful.

 

And now for some random things.

 

Screen size, it's OK. I'm used to the Etrex size which was fine, but after the massive screen estate of the Oregon (albeit DIM ) it feels a step back nowadays. But it's usable. And bright (listen Garmin!)

 

I like the speed, the size, accuracy, the button layout, the ORANGENESS , the imagery you can download. It has enormous potential ESPECIALLY with the motivated dev team.

 

It's cheap looking and plasticy. Fisher Price looked like they had a hand designing it. But it's ORANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This unit has a steep learning curve when it comes to maps and map loading. And I mean STEEP. Like contour lines VERY CLOSE TOGETHER steep. You'll need to actually read the manuals. take your time. I'm not sure it becomes close to a starter GPS for people, but they do give you a nice set of pre-cut regional DVDs. Downloading and selecting maps is kinda painful but that's because I'm simply not used to Topo 7 yet. I can see a large SD card in my future.

 

--

 

Some random things that need to happen in my book geocaching-wise post-upcoming firmware update to make this a killer caching device:

 

-Better icon support (new firmware will use official icons, right?.. custom icons would be even better for even better differentiation of caches..e.g. solved puzzles, EVIL micros, regular sized caches....)

 

-I'd love a setting where I can define a standard string of text within each field note generated on that day (e.g "Out on a gorgeous summer day caching with my son.") so that can be pre-pended to each field note uploaded to gc.com.

 

-I would likely never use the direct-to-GPS plugin on gc.com nor probably the cache register (which I doubt will support things like solved puzzle cache co-ordinates), I like mine all pre-filtered and managed by GSAK (preferred by many cachers). Direct GSAK-> PN-40 would be cool obviously. Come on Robert Lipe and babelheads!

 

--

For those who like to use their handhelds to navigate on roads:

 

For those who like to drive from caching and then go off to eat at a random local restaurant, the POI on these DVDs are ~4million, compared to garmin's City Navigator of 6 million. I've found some crazy omissions from the Delorme POI... my kid's public school down the road, been there for 20 years, no sign of it on Delorme map. Established gas stations missing. Data locally is much much sparser compared to Garmin's City Navigator. you pays your money. You can load in custom POI sets, eg from POI Factory but that will not really cut it unless you know a few days ahead of time you will be needing to look for a Walmart SuperCenter or Hooters. Sure, this isn't the unit's primary function and you got to buy the exra POIs from garmin, but it's important to know as there isn't the purchase choice in Delorme. Lots of cachers rely on their handheld for POIs.

 

The jury is still out for me on auto-routing from cache to cache...took me some time with the manual / delorme forums to figure out the back-on-track "auto-routing" settings. Again, a need exists to read the manual. This is no dumbed down auto-GPS. I need to use some more. Again, I know that Delorme admits this is a secondary use for this device, the need to auto-route to a cache via roads is a large need of a lot of cachers and there is a real disconnect between automotive devices and handhelds... automotive units are a pain to import caches into, and handheld units (except now in retrospect maybe a Garmin handheld + City Navigator combo) are hit and miss affairs. A large percentage of cachers do spend all day in their cars looking for caches; might not appeal to everyone, but it's a fact. Keeping it all on one unit with paperless ability is a Holy Grail for a lot of those...the Colorado / Oregon came very close but let themselves down hardware and OS-wise.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Maingray

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

At the moment, to be fair it is not totally paperless "out the box".

My most humble apologies, I've been recommending it on that basis.

 

But don't worry about me, I'm off to Staples now for a couple of reams of paper.

[+Maingray]

 

At the moment, to be fair it is not totally paperless "out the box".

My most humble apologies, I've been recommending it on that basis.

 

But don't worry about me, I'm off to Staples now for a couple of reams of paper.

 

Just saying, it's ABOUT to be totally paperless You can always make some cool looking Origami frogs with that paper.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

At the moment, to be fair it is not totally paperless "out the box".

My most humble apologies, I've been recommending it on that basis.

 

But don't worry about me, I'm off to Staples now for a couple of reams of paper.

 

Just saying, it's ABOUT to be totally paperless You can always make some cool looking Origami frogs with that paper.

Hey, I'm happy with that. That's a lot better usage than others might have suggested.

[+Hrethgir]

...automotive units are a pain to import caches into....

 

Actually, I have a Garmin Streetpilot c510, and it has a USB plug on it, and when I plug it into my laptop, it's as easy to import caches to as my Legend HCx, both using MapSourse to send batches from a PQ, and from gc.com to send individual caches.

 

I do wish there was a single unit that did both voice turn-by-turn navigation and geocaching easily right out of the box, but for now, I'l use the Garmin c510 to get me from area to area, and the PN-40 to get me to the cache. I also plan on using the PN-40 for navigation on my motorcycle, since I can't hear voice nav anyways, and the aerial imagery will be cool for that, too.

[Ken in Regina]

Hi dakboy,

 

Thanks for the tip but without Canadian map data the rest of the details don't matter to me.

 

...ken...

Unlike many other device manufacturers, DeLorme does provide software to make it happen.

XMap PRO (fessional), 1/2 price @ $99.00 USA to existing owners of PN-XX devices.

The government of Canada provide the data as a free download, some conversion may be

necessary, but IMO it'd be worth it, YMMV.

 

Norm

Hi Norm,

 

Well, not worth it for me. I've got reasonably priced road maps for Canada with loads of POIs and autorouting available for my Garmin GPS receivers and they make updates available regularly ... just the same as DeLorme does for their American users. I've also got excellent topo maps (Ibycus) made from the government data you mentioned, already pre-built for my Garmin stuff.

 

The PN-40 is a sweet looking device and it's great that the capability exists to make your own custom maps for those occasional situations where nothing else will do quite as well. But, for normal day-to-day use, I'm not prepared to be a third-class customer who has to make my own maps just to use it when I have options that don't require me to do that.

 

...ken...

[+JoesBar]

I have been using a Magellan Meridian for some time. I'm ready to spend $$ for a new, better unit. The Delorme 20 looked like it would be great, but the screen is tiny! The 'gold standard' Garmin 60csx has a screen larger than the PN-20 but still smaller than my old Magellan. While I applaud Delorme for the upgrades in the PN-40, I'm extremely disappointed with the same, tiny screen. Come on, even cameras have a three inch screen these days. I'd pay some extra dollars for a screen I can see.

[+dakboy]

I have been using a Magellan Meridian for some time. I'm ready to spend $$ for a new, better unit. The Delorme 20 looked like it would be great, but the screen is tiny! The 'gold standard' Garmin 60csx has a screen larger than the PN-20 but still smaller than my old Magellan. While I applaud Delorme for the upgrades in the PN-40, I'm extremely disappointed with the same, tiny screen. Come on, even cameras have a three inch screen these days. I'd pay some extra dollars for a screen I can see.

The DeLorme screen may be smaller dimensions, but it's much higher resolution than your (and my) Meridian. Dimensions aren't all that matter.

[+RRLover]

I have been using a Magellan Meridian for some time. I'm ready to spend $$ for a new, better unit. The Delorme 20 looked like it would be great, but the screen is tiny! The 'gold standard' Garmin 60csx has a screen larger than the PN-20 but still smaller than my old Magellan. While I applaud Delorme for the upgrades in the PN-40, I'm extremely disappointed with the same, tiny screen. Come on, even cameras have a three inch screen these days. I'd pay some extra dollars for a screen I can see.

The DeLorme screen may be smaller dimensions, but it's much higher resolution than your (and my) Meridian. Dimensions aren't all that matter.

If you remember the "late-great" eXplorist XL, the PN-XX devices have very similar pixel count, albeit

on a smaller piece of real-estate. If I'm needing to see really fine detail, I lift my glasses and snuggle up.

I'm fortunate(?) to be both near, and far-sighted. And hate that "through the looking glass" feeling from

strong bifocals.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I have been using a Magellan Meridian for some time. I'm ready to spend $$ for a new, better unit. The Delorme 20 looked like it would be great, but the screen is tiny! The 'gold standard' Garmin 60csx has a screen larger than the PN-20 but still smaller than my old Magellan. While I applaud Delorme for the upgrades in the PN-40, I'm extremely disappointed with the same, tiny screen. Come on, even cameras have a three inch screen these days. I'd pay some extra dollars for a screen I can see.

I've seen similar comments regarding the screen size herein. However, now that the PN-40s are out in the hands of users who have previously used 60CSxs, it doesn't seem to be a big factor. To a person, they are sticking with their -40s.

 

You might want to go into an REI and put the demo in your hand.

[+TotemLake]

I have been using a Magellan Meridian for some time. I'm ready to spend $$ for a new, better unit. The Delorme 20 looked like it would be great, but the screen is tiny! The 'gold standard' Garmin 60csx has a screen larger than the PN-20 but still smaller than my old Magellan. While I applaud Delorme for the upgrades in the PN-40, I'm extremely disappointed with the same, tiny screen. Come on, even cameras have a three inch screen these days. I'd pay some extra dollars for a screen I can see.

I have a six year old MeriPlat I just replaced with the PN-40se. Although the screen size is easily half that of the Meridian, it is by a large magnitude more readable than the Meridian. I was more than pleasantly surprised. I have taken this unit out in broad daylight in the high noon sun (it was out for about 15 minutes here in Seattle) and the screen was viewable at half brightness, easy to read at 75% brightness without tilting the unit to be able to read it. With the higher resolution (65k colors) the itty bitty little font is still very easy to discern and read. Frankly, I have more trouble reading small print paperbacks than I do this unit.

 

I can't speak for accuracy or signal lock under duress yet. I have a cache hidden that even the 60csx has real problems with signal bounce and I spent a lot of time averaging it with the MeriPlat. As soon as my leg is no longer lame, I'll be testing against that cache. I can say the signal acquistion is lightning fast when compared against my MeriPlat.

[+LogJammin']

Did you see Delorme has a $50 rebate until the end of the year? I just purchased mine... when all said and done.. it will cost me only $280 for the PN-40.... good deal.

 

I don't think the $50 rebate works with TigerGPS. $350 less 5% is the best you can do.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Did you see Delorme has a $50 rebate until the end of the year? I just purchased mine... when all said and done.. it will cost me only $280 for the PN-40.... good deal.

 

I don't think the $50 rebate works with TigerGPS. $350 less 5% is the best you can do.

AFAIK, the rebates are valid for purchases at walk-in, brick and mortar stores.

[+Hrethgir]

I have been using a Magellan Meridian for some time. I'm ready to spend $$ for a new, better unit. The Delorme 20 looked like it would be great, but the screen is tiny! The 'gold standard' Garmin 60csx has a screen larger than the PN-20 but still smaller than my old Magellan. While I applaud Delorme for the upgrades in the PN-40, I'm extremely disappointed with the same, tiny screen. Come on, even cameras have a three inch screen these days. I'd pay some extra dollars for a screen I can see.

 

Don't judge the screen by it's size alone. You know what I've noticed a lot? People who own the Garmin Oregon complain about the screen being hard to read outdoors in sunlight, while people who have never held a PN-xx complain about it having a small screen, while I have yet to hear a PN-xx owner complain about the screen (myself included). It's a really nice screen, you should go eyeball a unit that's powered on, I think you'll be pleasantly suprised.

[Team-woof]

I'll be placing an order for the PN-40 as soon as the "send to GPS plug-in" from the Geocaching.com site becomes availablel.

 

I couldn't wait, I ordered yesterday. But since my old etrex pretty much does nothing, this isn't a big deal. But I can't wait for the "send to GPS" function.

[+twolpert]

You might want to go into an REI and put the demo in your hand.

Tried this in St. Louis. Not only did they not have a PN-40, they didn't know what it was... Call ahead before you spend time traveling to the store.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

They just got them in at the REI here in Asheville, NC.

[+Maingray]

 

--

 

Some random things that need to happen in my book geocaching-wise post-upcoming firmware update to make this a killer caching device:

 

-Better icon support (new firmware will use official icons, right?.. custom icons would be even better for even better differentiation of caches..e.g. solved puzzles, EVIL micros, regular sized caches....)

 

-I'd love a setting where I can define a standard string of text within each field note generated on that day (e.g "Out on a gorgeous summer day caching with my son.") so that can be pre-pended to each field note uploaded to gc.com.

 

-I would likely never use the direct-to-GPS plugin on gc.com nor probably the cache register (which I doubt will support things like solved puzzle cache co-ordinates), I like mine all pre-filtered and managed by GSAK (preferred by many cachers). Direct GSAK-> PN-40 would be cool obviously. Come on Robert Lipe and babelheads!

 

 

- would love a screen or info field similar to the oregon's geocaching dashboard tailor made for cachers. Love the live find count...an often requested thing by cachers. "So how mnay caches did we find today?". You could switch one of the data fields for a pointer; I used to use that screen for navigating to a cache often. Here is the Oregon's dashboard:

 

(image from http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/ )

Edited December 3, 2008 by Maingray

[+TotemLake]

You might want to go into an REI and put the demo in your hand.

Tried this in St. Louis. Not only did they not have a PN-40, they didn't know what it was... Call ahead before you spend time traveling to the store.

I was at the flagship store a couple weeks back and they said the first REI stores that get the most requests are receiving them first. Make your request to get them in. It's a little surprising they didn't know what it is. These guys are supposed to receive product updates and training when they are added to the product line. Their commitment to being with the store for 2 years is necessary for the amount of training they receive.

Edited December 3, 2008 by TotemLake

[+Team CowboyPapa]

It's a little surprising they didn't know what it is. These guys are supposed to receive product updates and training when they are added to the product line. Their commitment to being with the store for 2 years is necessary for the amount of training they receive.

I agree. Several weeks ago, a number of the DeLorme folks fanned out across the country to meet with as many of the REI personnel as possible. I actually made personal contact with one at my local store as did several others. The sales person at my store was very enthusiastic and is going to host training sessions.

 

Second subject: TL, I just got a notice from Overstocks.com on Cuisinart coffee maker closeout sale. Do you suppose there is a forum where I could get advice on how good those are without getting involved with a big fight between the Cuisinart fans and the Mr Coffee advocates?

[+TotemLake]

It's a little surprising they didn't know what it is. These guys are supposed to receive product updates and training when they are added to the product line. Their commitment to being with the store for 2 years is necessary for the amount of training they receive.

I agree. Several weeks ago, a number of the DeLorme folks fanned out across the country to meet with as many of the REI personnel as possible. I actually made personal contact with one at my local store as did several others. The sales person at my store was very enthusiastic and is going to host training sessions.

 

Second subject: TL, I just got a notice from Overstocks.com on Cuisinart coffee maker closeout sale. Do you suppose there is a forum where I could get advice on how good those are without getting involved with a big fight between the Cuisinart fans and the Mr Coffee advocates?

Tell you what, toss in the burr grinder and you got yourself a great deal.

[+BrokenLug]

Second subject: TL, I just got a notice from Overstocks.com on Cuisinart coffee maker closeout sale. Do you suppose there is a forum where I could get advice on how good those are without getting involved with a big fight between the Cuisinart fans and the Mr Coffee advocates?

 

IMHO, the Mr. coffee has a far superior clock display screen and better caffeine acquisition time ! Sort of like the P... oh I ain't goin there.

Edited December 3, 2008 by BrokenLug

[+benjamin921]

Second subject: TL, I just got a notice from Overstocks.com on Cuisinart coffee maker closeout sale. Do you suppose there is a forum where I could get advice on how good those are without getting involved with a big fight between the Cuisinart fans and the Mr Coffee advocates?

 

IMHO, the Mr. coffee has a far superior clock display screen and better caffeine acquisition time ! Sort of like the P... oh I ain't goin there.

Yeah but my Cuisinart grinds and brews!

[+twolpert]

I was at the flagship store a couple weeks back and they said the first REI stores that get the most requests are receiving them first. Make your request to get them in. It's a little surprising they didn't know what it is. These guys are supposed to receive product updates and training when they are added to the product line. Their commitment to being with the store for 2 years is necessary for the amount of training they receive.

Maybe I got the clothing clerk who drew the short straw. Once we got past "what is it" and "can I sell you a Colorado 400t instead", her suggestion was that I order one, pay for it, wait for it to come in (4-7 days) and just return it if I didn't like it. She seriously wanted to know if "paperless caching" and Wherigo are the same thing... Not all REI staff are created equal. Must say I've never had an experience this bad at REI before and hope not to repeat it in the future.

[+TotemLake]

Second subject: TL, I just got a notice from Overstocks.com on Cuisinart coffee maker closeout sale. Do you suppose there is a forum where I could get advice on how good those are without getting involved with a big fight between the Cuisinart fans and the Mr Coffee advocates?

 

IMHO, the Mr. coffee has a far superior clock display screen and better caffeine acquisition time ! Sort of like the P... oh I ain't goin there.

Yeah but my Cuisinart grinds and brews!

Mine too. Gotta love those "bells and whistles."

[swales]

Did you see Delorme has a $50 rebate until the end of the year? I just purchased mine... when all said and done.. it will cost me only $280 for the PN-40.... good deal.

 

I don't think the $50 rebate works with TigerGPS. $350 less 5% is the best you can do.

AFAIK, the rebates are valid for purchases at walk-in, brick and mortar stores.

 

The rebate is a good question... Many have stated that it does not apply to online stores... however if you look at the rebate form it says NOTHING about that restriction. I will give it a shot... if they deny it I plan to argue the fact.

 

As far as ordering from TigerGPS... everything was flawless.. they shipped the order the next day (I ordered at night), it did take the full estimated 7 days to arrive (might have been worth the extra $13 to get it 2nd day...

[+TotemLake]

Did you see Delorme has a $50 rebate until the end of the year? I just purchased mine... when all said and done.. it will cost me only $280 for the PN-40.... good deal.

I don't think the $50 rebate works with TigerGPS. $350 less 5% is the best you can do.

AFAIK, the rebates are valid for purchases at walk-in, brick and mortar stores.

 

The rebate is a good question... Many have stated that it does not apply to online stores... however if you look at the rebate form it says NOTHING about that restriction. I will give it a shot... if they deny it I plan to argue the fact.

 

As far as ordering from TigerGPS... everything was flawless.. they shipped the order the next day (I ordered at night), it did take the full estimated 7 days to arrive (might have been worth the extra $13 to get it 2nd day...

Fixed the quotes. You guys are driving me crazy.

[+BrokenLug]

OK, back on topic. What's the real world, tire kicking lowdown on this 40 badboy? I've got an itchy wallet and you guys that already have one [some for quite awhile] are killin me. I waited on the 20 because I wanted the bugs to get flushed out [seems they have]. Frankly I was leery of an untested GPS manufacturer. Now the 40 comes out, should I wait for the 60 or will I turn blue ? Hopefully your putting the 40 through the objective ringer for the benefit of us wanabees. Have any lug nuts come off of this wiz bang time measuring devise or is this unit really all it cracked up to be ?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

OK, back on topic. What's the real world, tire kicking lowdown on this 40 badboy? I've got an itchy wallet and you guys that already have one [some for quite awhile] are killin me. I waited on the 20 because I wanted the bugs to get flushed out [seems they have]. Frankly I was leery of an untested GPS manufacturer. Now the 40 comes out, should I wait for the 60 or will I turn blue ? Hopefully your putting the 40 through the objective ringer for the benefit of us wanabees. Have any lug nuts come off of this wiz bang time measuring devise or is this unit really all it cracked up to be ?

You know how it was with PCs. Should I get today's 450MHz PII or wait a year for the PIII? ................

 

Outside of that, it's all that they say it is.

[+BrokenLug]

Is that the fka cowboy slim ?

If it is then 10-39

[+TotemLake]

OK, back on topic. What's the real world, tire kicking lowdown on this 40 badboy? I've got an itchy wallet and you guys that already have one [some for quite awhile] are killin me. I waited on the 20 because I wanted the bugs to get flushed out [seems they have]. Frankly I was leery of an untested GPS manufacturer. Now the 40 comes out, should I wait for the 60 or will I turn blue ? Hopefully your putting the 40 through the objective ringer for the benefit of us wanabees. Have any lug nuts come off of this wiz bang time measuring devise or is this unit really all it cracked up to be ?

Without looking for a cache yet and no real test for tracking yet (lame leg keeping me limited). Here's what I have for you.

 

It's easy to manage in either hand. Buttons aren't an easy push over when putting the unit in your pocket but are easy to depress when you do have it in your hand. The glove test hasn't been done yet but I think this will be a minor issue with 3 of the buttons. Screen is much brighter and easier to read than feared. The brightness is easy to control with a single delayed power switch click then toggle the slide. USB connectivity is easy to manage and very secure. The water tightness is obvious with two u-bolted screws that latch in place. The GPS is rugged. I have no doubt it can handle bounces.

 

Map usage has a learning curve even for previous version users. The closer you are to the V7 in usage, the less the curve. NetLink takes a little getting used to if you've never used it before, but it is easy to figure out. I would like to see the NetLink dialog buttons be pushable rather than a static click. You never really know if you did a positive click on it. It also takes almost 1GB of memory to load it. (908 MB according to my task manager.)

 

Selecting and tiling to import maps is a breeze although the servers are currently being hammered by all the new users out there. I hope to see this slowdown alleviate after a short while. You are limited to 100 tiles per download, and I think I saw a limit of how many downloads you can do at one time before you can do more but I don't remember what that number is. When starting the download, shrink your map to a smaller size in the corner so it doesn't get in the way of other tasks. The download locks your ability to use the map software. I'd like to see this changed too. It isn't very intuitive on how to view the satellite maps, but once you figure out its while you are viewing in 3-D mode, it gets easier to utilize. A user can beneifit from a graphics card with plenty of horsepower.

 

Using GSAK you can selectively target areas you want to check and export your caches in GPX mode to be imported. Large GPX files of about 40MB takes about 15-20 minutes to import on a dual core 2.4GHz 3.0GB RAM 32bit Vista system. I imported 13,400 caches this way in about 28 minutes.

 

Exporting waypoints to the GPS is pretty straightforward but you have to remember to copy the caches to a waypoint draw layer. You can do this selectively or by blanket approach. By the selective approach, you can do this through the waypoint list (Click the More button) or by right clicking the waypoint on the map. By map is a pretty cool approach.

 

Same thing goes with tracks you want to upload.

 

Upload times for these are relatively quick and painless.

 

It's really cool to see aerials on the GPS instead of line drawings or cartoonish maps. The hybrid capability is awesome and refresh speed is up to the task at 60-70MPH. I don't have enough charm to make my wife go much faster while I try to limit my driving time on this lame leg.

 

Uploading the aerials is fastest when you set the GPS to communicate with the PC as if it is an external drive(10 minutes for about 340MB) , or if you export to the SD card through a reader.

 

Getting the PN-40se with the 8GB memory is well worth the price. I don't have to putz with a card yet even though it came with the 1GB card.

Edited December 4, 2008 by TotemLake

[+embra]

OK, back on topic. What's the real world, tire kicking lowdown on this 40 badboy? I've got an itchy wallet and you guys that already have one [some for quite awhile] are killin me. I waited on the 20 because I wanted the bugs to get flushed out [seems they have]. Frankly I was leery of an untested GPS manufacturer. Now the 40 comes out, should I wait for the 60 or will I turn blue ? Hopefully your putting the 40 through the objective ringer for the benefit of us wanabees. Have any lug nuts come off of this wiz bang time measuring devise or is this unit really all it cracked up to be ?

 

My opinion is bite the bullet now; the 40 is perhaps not the perfect GPS but it's pretty dadgum solid. I'm not the most objective brick in the wall, though...your best references are apt to be the people who are new to the Delorme GPS's.

 

There were some problems with the PN-20 out of the gate, but Delorme stood behind it and kept engaged with its development. They learned a lot and plowed that knowledge back into the PN-40, which has the horsepower this kind of device needs. One can criticize design decisions, such as the size of the screen, but I think Delorme has executed well on their choices, and they continue to demonstrate a commitment to improve the product. The geocaching improvements that they have described look like they will smooth out the rough spots for using the PNs for that purpose.

 

Honestly, I'm finding it to be a lot of fun to be using a PN-40 these days.

 

Edit: if you buy from Delorme direct, they offer a 30-day no questions return period. REI is generous in their return policy, too.

Edited December 4, 2008 by embra