Why can't we get PQ's on time?

[+Tequila]

For the fourth week out of the last six, my Thursday PQ's showed up this morning and now my Friday PQ's can't run because they will exceed the 5/day limit.

 

I can understand this happening once in awhile but this is getting ridiculous.

 

Please don't explain the algorithm as I am quite familiar with it. What I would like is to hear from Groundspeak as to why this is happening so frequently and what they plan to do to address it.

[+PJPeters]

I'm putting my money on an overloaded server as people get ready for a weekend of caching. If that's the case, one would hope that they're working on remedying that issue.

[+OReviewer]

You can probably protect yourself by not auto running so much on Thursday.

 

Hand run PQs always come within 10 minutes for me. If it's that important, hand run them, they will come to you when you want them and you won't have the problem of them not coming.

 

Personally, I would be all for auto running of PQs weekly to be removed. I really don't get its use.

[+sbell111]

For the fourth week out of the last six, my Thursday PQ's showed up this morning and now my Friday PQ's can't run because they will exceed the 5/day limit.

 

I can understand this happening once in awhile but this is getting ridiculous.

 

Please don't explain the algorithm as I am quite familiar with it. What I would like is to hear from Groundspeak as to why this is happening so frequently and what they plan to do to address it.

PQs running less frequently have less of the problems that you are experiencing (or none at all). As such, if you break down your multi-day PQs into seperate identical PQs that are run less frequently, you'll get them more reliably.

[CoyoteRed]

Personally, I would be all for auto running of PQs weekly to be removed. I really don't get its use.

Removing weekly PQs would be a major step backward. PQs are limited enough as it is. The more I stay off the main site the better for me. That's just one reason I "get" the automation this site provides.

[+Tequila]

You can probably protect yourself by not auto running so much on Thursday.

 

Hand run PQs always come within 10 minutes for me. If it's that important, hand run them, they will come to you when you want them and you won't have the problem of them not coming.

 

Personally, I would be all for auto running of PQs weekly to be removed. I really don't get its use.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever. You are suggesting that I should ignore an automated process and waste my time by manually recreating the same PQ each week???? Do you rebuild your GPS everytime you want to use it???

 

The whole idea of of computer systems is to automate mundane processes.

 

Groundspeak sells a service that offers us 5 PQ's/day. I should be entitled to receive any 5 PQ's each and every day. It does not state I have to manually re-create the PQ every time I want to run it. In fact, they created, and enhanced, a web page specifically designed to automate that mundane process. And if they can't deliver 5 PQ's per day, change the offering. In response to the statement that it is a bargain at the price they charge, perhaps it is but we didn't set the price. I would happily pay a larger sum for a better or guaranteed service.

 

The problem appears to be that they have not provisioned their servers appropriately to meet the customer demand. I am not suggesting they provision to provide every single subscriber with 5 per day. But they should have the ability to run business models that give them enough historic information to accurately predict PQ volumes and they should provision for that. It is pretty obvious that Thursday through Saturday is their peak period and that should be considered as well. The past six weeks has demonstrated they either have a load problem or a logic problem.

 

They prohibit us from sharing PQ's and they discourage the use of offline databases. I understand the logic behind both of these. However, the lack of service is forcing customers to do the very thing they don't want us to do. Locally we have a huge event tomorrow night and a bunch of caches are going to be published in the late afternoon. I have no reasonable expectation that I will get the PQ with all of those caches.

 

In the absence of an explanation for the recent difficulties, we are left to speculate.

[+Tequila]

For the fourth week out of the last six, my Thursday PQ's showed up this morning and now my Friday PQ's can't run because they will exceed the 5/day limit.

 

I can understand this happening once in awhile but this is getting ridiculous.

 

Please don't explain the algorithm as I am quite familiar with it. What I would like is to hear from Groundspeak as to why this is happening so frequently and what they plan to do to address it.

PQs running less frequently have less of the problems that you are experiencing (or none at all). As such, if you break down your multi-day PQs into seperate identical PQs that are run less frequently, you'll get them more reliably.

 

The PQ's I am referring to run twice a week. I think it is ridiculous for me, or any other customer, to not be able to run the same PQ twice a week and receive reliable delivery.

[Skippermark]

Generally, on Wednesday, I'll decide where I want to cache on the weekend and set my PQs to run on Thursday. Sometimes they will have run by the time I get up on Thursday, but if not, they'll almost always have run by the time I get home from work. That gives me Thursday and Friday to look at the caches and decide which ones I want to do.

 

I find that if I ran one of the PQs within a week, it may not come for a few hours to longer, but if it's been more than a week, it'll usually come pretty quickly.

[CoyoteRed]

What if everyone ran their PQs on demand? Consider the order in which PQs are processed. Brand new PQs first and then the rest are ordered by last run date. That's why new PQs get "instant" service and PQs run twice a week take a lot longer. But if everyone ran new PQs we'd be right back in the same boat. The whole reason the PQs mechanism is in place, I'm assuming as I'm in the mind of the creator, is to spread out the server work load. Running PQs on demand defeats that.

 

We've mentioned before to make a copy of your PQs and only run each PQs only once a week. At least then you'd be in with the PQs that were run 7 days ago instead of further down the list with the PQs that run 4 or 3 days ago.

[+Tequila]

I have made 7 copies of my most important PQ and run each one weekly. Even those are no longer coming in on time. Originally they were coming in around 0200 EST; now they frequently don't show up until noon or later.

[+markandsandy]

I have made 7 copies of my most important PQ and run each one weekly. Even those are no longer coming in on time. Originally they were coming in around 0200 EST; now they frequently don't show up until noon or later.

 

I did't know that they defined the start and end of days differently in Canada, but if it's coming in around noon, around here that's still the same day, so would be considered 'on time' for somethng that is defined to be run that day. Maybe it's not as early as they arrived at some time in the past, or as early as you feel you are entitled to, but they are 'on time'.

 

I have eight PQs run each week, two each on Monday through Thursday, and typically receive them between 10AM PST and 1PM PST. I would consider all of these to be 'on time'.

[+tozainamboku]

Personally, I would be all for auto running of PQs weekly to be removed. I really don't get its use.

Removing weekly PQs would be a major step backward. PQs are limited enough as it is. The more I stay off the main site the better for me. That's just one reason I "get" the automation this site provides.

That makes no sense whatsoever. You are suggesting that I should ignore an automated process and waste my time by manually recreating the same PQ each week???? Do you rebuild your GPS everytime you want to use it???

What if everyone ran their PQs on demand?

I believe OReviewer is expressing the opinion that most people who schedule daily or weekly PQs don't really need them daily or weekly. If people only got PQs when they needed them the demand on the PQ servers would be greatly reduced.

 

I understand that people like to have them scheduled to keep an offline database up-to-date so that when they do go geocaching can load relatively fresh data. If the response from a non-scheduled PQ were instantaneous, no matter when it was last run, one might be able to argue that there is no need for offline databases. Just get the data from Geocaching.com when you are ready to hunt caches. (I understand that GSAK and other offline database tools provide some other capabilities that you'd want Groundspeak to provide in this case, such as the ability to enter corrected coordinates for puzzle caches you have solved or to get more than 5 logs). However, there sometimes is a delay in getting the PQ delivered and periods where GC.com may be down or slow to respond. So for now people will want to run scheduled PQs to keep their offline data fresh.

 

A few times in the past, Jeremy has announced that regularly scheduled pocket queries would have to be explicit rescheduled if they hadn't been modified in a certain time or if the owner hadn't visited the site online in some period. When this has been done it resulted in many of the PQs that aren't being used not being rescheduled by the owners and the load on the server being at least temporarily reduce. Perhaps this could be done regularly, say every 3 or 4 months. But even this has diminishing returns. As there are more and more members running scheduled PQs, the server capacity has to be expanded. There should be enough server capacity to handle all the PQs that are submitted on a Friday to complete them all. Groundspeak comes off looking cheap each time they refuse to expand capacity to handle the growth in demand.

 

About a week ago I revamped my PQ to get fewer scheduled queries. In the process I re-enable some that I hadn't been running for nearly a year. These ran earlier this week all before 12:08 AM on the day there were scheduled. On the other hand, because of my plans for geocaching this weekend, I moved the PQs I usually run on Saturday and Sunday to Thursday and Friday. So these were last run 6 days ago. The ones scheduled on Thursday did not run till 5:30 PM and, of course, the ones for today have not yet run. Either the number of PQs schedule to run once a week take up most of the day, leaving too little time to get through the PQs that run more often, or the PQ server was not running all the time yesterday (perhaps due to the site being down while the new release was rolled out and then rolled back). I hope I get my PQs at some reasonable time today so I can prepare for tomorrow's caching tonight.

[+trainlove]

Try this.

 

Delete your stored PQ's, once you record the information that makes you want to store them such as date ranges.

Create new PQ's for those previously stored PQ's.

Run your new PQ's.

 

I think the GC algorithm will assign higher priority to your new PQ's. And your PQ's should run faster.

 

Plus, if it happens with any regularity on Thursdays. Then try to run them well in advance of the end of the day PST/PDT, you could in theory have them run/scheduled almost 24 hours in advance of that.

 

Edited to add:

I just actually read all the posts on this and wanted to add.

If you don't want to have to manually run the PQ. You can use a program Bill Gates supplies on all Windows computers called Recorder.

Just record some keystrokes and mouse moves for the process of running a PQ and have the computer 'manually' run it for you at some scheduled time. Well I don't think you can combine At with Recorder, but I'm sure that some Facebook people out there have definable scheduleable keystroke/mouse macros.

Edited November 14, 2008 by trainlove

[+Tequila]

I have made 7 copies of my most important PQ and run each one weekly. Even those are no longer coming in on time. Originally they were coming in around 0200 EST; now they frequently don't show up until noon or later.

 

I did't know that they defined the start and end of days differently in Canada, but if it's coming in around noon, around here that's still the same day, so would be considered 'on time' for somethng that is defined to be run that day. Maybe it's not as early as they arrived at some time in the past, or as early as you feel you are entitled to, but they are 'on time'.

 

I have eight PQs run each week, two each on Monday through Thursday, and typically receive them between 10AM PST and 1PM PST. I would consider all of these to be 'on time'.

 

Sarcasm is pointless in most of these discussion.

 

You misread my earlier posts. My twice weekly PQ's are the one's that are not coming in on the day that they should be.

 

Someone posted a "get around" of using 7 versions of the same PQ and run each one daily. MY POINT in my reply was that even when using that 'get around" response time seems to be degenerating. They started out arriving around 0200, now it is around noon, next week it will probably be 1400, etc. etc.

[+Tequila]

Try this.

 

Delete your stored PQ's, once you record the information that makes you want to store them such as date ranges.

Create new PQ's for those previously stored PQ's.

Run your new PQ's.

 

I think the GC algorithm will assign higher priority to your new PQ's. And your PQ's should run faster.

 

Plus, if it happens with any regularity on Thursdays. Then try to run them well in advance of the end of the day PST/PDT, you could in theory have them run/scheduled almost 24 hours in advance of that.

 

Edited to add:

I just actually read all the posts on this and wanted to add.

If you don't want to have to manually run the PQ. You can use a program Bill Gates supplies on all Windows computers called Recorder.

Just record some keystrokes and mouse moves for the process of running a PQ and have the computer 'manually' run it for you at some scheduled time. Well I don't think you can combine At with Recorder, but I'm sure that some Facebook people out there have definable scheduleable keystroke/mouse macros.

 

If we took half the energy being expended on devising cumbersome "workarounds", and focused it on fixing the problem, everyone would be a lot better off.

 

As for the point that some people run PQ's and "don't really need them", that is another red herring. Whether or not I need the PQ is immaterial. I am paying for them and I should be able to use them as I see fit. Not everyone geocaches the same way.

[+trainlove]

They started out arriving around 0200, now it is around noon, next week it will probably be 1400, etc. etc.

If this happens with any regularity then it suggests an experiment.

 

I.E. If it seems to delay 2 hours from one run to the next, when you do it as you with scheduled running. Then what happens if you manually run it once today. Will next week be 2 hours after the tiime you manually ran it today? That then says that you will only need to manually run them once per maybe every 6 months (if 2 hours delay is what happens).

[+Tequila]

They started out arriving around 0200, now it is around noon, next week it will probably be 1400, etc. etc.

If this happens with any regularity then it suggests an experiment.

 

I.E. If it seems to delay 2 hours from one run to the next, when you do it as you with scheduled running. Then what happens if you manually run it once today. Will next week be 2 hours after the tiime you manually ran it today? That then says that you will only need to manually run them once per maybe every 6 months (if 2 hours delay is what happens).

 

Huh???????

 

I am not looking for manual get arounds. As I said above, Groundspeak introduced a web page designed to eliminate the need for manually creating PQ's every time you want to run a PQ. And I don't think individual users, such as myself, is the way to "experiment" and resolve these issues. I would expect that Groundspeak has a test environment and trained personnel that are far better qualified that I to troubleshoot this problem.

 

I am looking for an explanation as to why the delays with regularly scheduled PQ's seems to be getting progressively worse. I probably already know the answer: inadequate server resources. But it would be nice for someone, in a position to know, to acknowledge what the problem is, acknowledge there is a get well plan in place and provide some sort of reasonable time line to have it resolved.

 

I have one other question that I would like explained. Everyone states that new manually created PQ's run instantly. For the most part, my experience has been that this is a true statement. In order to deliver these "new" PQ's "instantly", there must be a server sitting at least partially idle, waiting for the next request to arrive. Why isn't that system used to process some of the backlog of scheduled PQ's and relieve the pressure on that other server.

[+Tequila]

One further suggestion that would ease the pain.

 

Receiving the Thursday PQ at 0200 Friday is not good BUT the real issue is the fact that the PQ counts against Friday's quota.

 

Why can't Groundspeak change the algorithm to count the PQ against date requested instead of date ran?

 

By doing that, my Friday PQ's would not be impacted.

[Skippermark]

I don't mean this in a bad way, and I understand if you're not getting them, you obviously want them, which is the reason for this thread. However, I rarely have an issue getting my PQs or experience any of the problems here. I'm curious what the percentage is of people who have issues versus those who don't.

 

I have preset queries ready to go for different areas, but I generally don't run them unless I know I'm going to be caching in that area. Maybe that makes a difference. When I go to run them, some haven't been run in 2 or 3 weeks.

 

I know the system gives priority to new PQs and those that haven't run in awhile, but maybe it gives priority to those who don't run as many, like someone who runs 3 or 4 a week versus someone who runs 20. Probably not, but it's a thought.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Skippermark

[+tozainamboku]

I have one other question that I would like explained. Everyone states that new manually created PQ's run instantly. For the most part, my experience has been that this is a true statement. In order to deliver these "new" PQ's "instantly", there must be a server sitting at least partially idle, waiting for the next request to arrive. Why isn't that system used to process some of the backlog of scheduled PQ's and relieve the pressure on that other server.

What makes you think they have more than one server? PQs are placed in a queue sorted by when that PQ last ran. PQs that have never ran are place at the front of the queue. What happens at midnight Pacific time, is that all the scheduled pocket queries that day are placed on the queue. Throughout the day, people will create new pocket queries (or an existing pocket query to run that day). These will goto into the queue based on the date they last ran. Since new queries are created throughout the day, these generally get place first in line and run immediately. There is never more than a few of them anyway so they get always be processed in a few minutes. When there are none of these, the PQ process starts working through the queries waiting in the queue. Depending on the day of the week it takes anywhere from a few hours to the whole day to work through the queue. What you are seeing are that some of your queries are low priority (because they ran the previous day). On some days the PQ query queue is not emptied. I agree with you that if Groundspeak is selling premium members the ability to run 5 PQs a day they should have enough server capacity to get through the queue.

 

Knowing how the queue works lets you optimize the way your PQs run. If you schedule PQs to run only once a week or at least have a few days between each time they run, you shouldn't have problems with your PQ not running. It will then be someone else's problem.

[+Tequila]

None of my PQ's run two days in a row. Most run twice a week and 7 versions of one PQ run once per week.

 

You are correct. I don't know there is more than one server. But if there isn't, that is a little scary. I would hope there is at least some redundancy built into the operation.

 

How do you know there is not many new PQ's generated throughout the day?

 

If you are correct that some days the PQ queue never gets emptied, and I think you are correct, THAT is a big problem and needs to be fixed. Otherwise Groundspeak is selling a service they are incapable of delivering. Ideal provisioning would be that on the busiest day, all PQ's should run in just under the 24 hour window.

 

If the PQ server is maxed out, then Groundspeak should impose a moratorium on new Premium Membership until they are provisioned to support additional users. Otherwise the situation gets more and more exacerbating as more PM's issue PQ's.

 

I agree with Skippermark that it would be interesting to know how many people are having this problem.

[+nittany dave]

...I have one other question that I would like explained. Everyone states that new manually created PQ's run instantly. For the most part, my experience has been that this is a true statement. In order to deliver these "new" PQ's "instantly", there must be a server sitting at least partially idle, waiting for the next request to arrive. Why isn't that system used to process some of the backlog of scheduled PQ's and relieve the pressure on that other server.

I seriously doubt that this is true. My guess is that the process that creates PQs simply finishes one and goes to get the next on in line. When someone creates an ad hoc PQ it simply gets put at or near the front of the line.

 

Having said that, I completely agree with your view that on most weeks lately PQs seem to be running slower running later than before. While mine usually still come on the scheduled days, 5pm Friday is a little less convenient than 9am for me but this still meets the stated terms so I can't really complain a whole lot.

Still, it is an indication that capacity may be reached soon, not just on some weekends but most weekends and weekdays too. Now would be the time for Groundspeak to take some kind of action to prevent it from becoming a bigger problem. For all we know, they are doing something but their complete lack of response (from what I've seen at least) leaves us to wonder if they even think there is a problem or know something that we don't and believe there is no need to worry.

 

I know if the web apps I manage experience significant slowdowns or outages, I have to report to my customer what the problem is and what we plan to do to prevent it from recurring. It would be nice if Groundspeak's paying customers could expect the same courtesy. Just knowing they are working on a plan or solution goes a long way towards alleviating the uncertainty addressing some of the hard feelings that seem to develop every time this occurs.

edit to correct a statement

Edited November 14, 2008 by nittany dave

[+Tequila]

The last of my Thursday PQ's, just arrived at 1500 hrs EST, 15 hours into Friday.

[+Tequila]

nittany dave,

 

Thank You. That is a very well written comment and sums things up beautifully. And you obviously speak with a knowledge of web servers.

 

Now if only Groundspeak will take your advice and update their customer base on their perception of the situation.

 

T

[+trainlove]

The last of my Thursday PQ's, just arrived at 1500 hrs EST, 15 hours into Friday.

That would actually be 1200 hours PST since that's where the servers are. And 12 hours is well before tomorrow I'd say. Half a day leeway is a lot of leeway.

Edited November 14, 2008 by trainlove

[+Tequila]

The last of my Thursday PQ's, just arrived at 1500 hrs EST, 15 hours into Friday.

That would actually be 12 hours PST since that's where the servers are. And 12 hours is well before tomorrow I'd say. Half a day leeway is a lot of leeway.

 

Huh???????

 

I can only assume you are being sarcastic???

 

Would you be happy if your doctor was 12 hours late? If your paycheck didn't arrive on Thursday but showed up 12 hours into Friday??? etc. etc. etc.

 

In fact, I am ok with it being late. I AM NOT OK with the fact that it now means I CANNOT run FridayPQ's because it showed up late and decremented my Friday count. Three Thursday PQ's arrived on Friday. So instead of being able to run the 5 I am paying for, I can only run two.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Tequila

[+markandsandy]

I have made 7 copies of my most important PQ and run each one weekly. Even those are no longer coming in on time. Originally they were coming in around 0200 EST; now they frequently don't show up until noon or later.

 

I did't know that they defined the start and end of days differently in Canada, but if it's coming in around noon, around here that's still the same day, so would be considered 'on time' for somethng that is defined to be run that day. Maybe it's not as early as they arrived at some time in the past, or as early as you feel you are entitled to, but they are 'on time'.

 

I have eight PQs run each week, two each on Monday through Thursday, and typically receive them between 10AM PST and 1PM PST. I would consider all of these to be 'on time'.

 

Sarcasm is pointless in most of these discussion.

 

You misread my earlier posts. My twice weekly PQ's are the one's that are not coming in on the day that they should be.

 

Someone posted a "get around" of using 7 versions of the same PQ and run each one daily. MY POINT in my reply was that even when using that 'get around" response time seems to be degenerating. They started out arriving around 0200, now it is around noon, next week it will probably be 1400, etc. etc.

 

No, I did not misread your earlier posts.

 

In the post that I responded to, you stated that the queries that you ran weekly were not arriving on time. MY POINT was that anytime during THAT DAY would be considered on time.

 

Someone posted a "get around" of using 7 versions of the same PQ and run each one daily. MY POINT in my reply was that even when using that 'get around" response time seems to be degenerating. They started out arriving around 0200, now it is around noon, next week it will probably be 1400, etc. etc.

 

I can't foresee the future, so I don't know at what time mine will arrive next week, but as I stated earlier, mine typically arrive between 10AM PST and 1PM PST, and no trend towards later has been observed.

[+sbell111]

You can probably protect yourself by not auto running so much on Thursday.

 

Hand run PQs always come within 10 minutes for me. If it's that important, hand run them, they will come to you when you want them and you won't have the problem of them not coming.

 

Personally, I would be all for auto running of PQs weekly to be removed. I really don't get its use.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever. You are suggesting that I should ignore an automated process and waste my time by manually recreating the same PQ each week???? Do you rebuild your GPS everytime you want to use it???

I don't believe that this is what OReviewer was suggesting. He merely suggested that instead of scheduling your PQ that you run it manually when you need it.

[+trainlove]

 

Today is today. Is there somewhere that says that your PQ will run at such and such a time today?

 

How can it running today at 1200 mean that the next time it runs, next week, will be sometime after 2400 hours and therefore not be the today of that week?

 

Tell us the exact time today that this particular PQ ran. Then next week when it runs again, tell us what time that is. But is that one of the PQ's you say you run twice a week? How can that be? I thought the schedule buttons were radio buttons not selector buttons. Well it's been 20 monmths since I've been a PM so I can't actually remember. But in order for this to be a valid bit of data from you, please do not otherwise manipulate this particular PQ, just let it re-run itself whenever it thinks it's supposed to run.

 

But I'm inclined to believe markandsandy, until you provide proof that there is a slidiing delay from run to run.

 

I think you might be talking about the My Finds PQ, which DID have some kind of sliding delay from one week to the next week 7 days later...

[+sbell111]

The last of my Thursday PQ's, just arrived at 1500 hrs EST, 15 hours into Friday.

That would actually be 1200 hours PST since that's where the servers are. And 12 hours is well before tomorrow I'd say. Half a day leeway is a lot of leeway.

Is it at all possible that your ISP is slow in getting you your emails? I ask this because my understanding of how the PQs are generated is that it works on Thursday PQs until it becomes Friday. At that point, I think it starts on Friday's PQs regardless of whether Thursday was completed. I rather doubt that the PQ's have been getting so delayed that it can't even finish the twice a week PQs in a single day. Of course, it's possible that the server was temporarily down yesterday which affected that day's PQs. I don't think that it would cause Thursday PQs to be run on Friday, however.

Edited November 14, 2008 by sbell111

[+trainlove]

Is it at all possible that your ISP is slow in getting you your emails?

I was just going to ask this.

What time did your PQ actually run and what time did the email arrive in your inbox? Two completely different things, and one thing that geocaching.com can't possibly be responsible for, unless their email servers are overtaxed also.

[+Tequila]

 

Today is today. Is there somewhere that says that your PQ will run at such and such a time today?

 

How can it running today at 1200 mean that the next time it runs, next week, will be sometime after 2400 hours and therefore not be the today of that week?

 

Tell us the exact time today that this particular PQ ran. Then next week when it runs again, tell us what time that is. But is that one of the PQ's you say you run twice a week? How can that be? I thought the schedule buttons were radio buttons not selector buttons. Well it's been 20 monmths since I've been a PM so I can't actually remember. But in order for this to be a valid bit of data from you, please do not otherwise manipulate this particular PQ, just let it re-run itself whenever it thinks it's supposed to run.

 

But I'm inclined to believe markandsandy, until you provide proof that there is a slidiing delay from run to run.

 

I think you might be talking about the My Finds PQ, which DID have some kind of sliding delay from one week to the next week 7 days later...

 

I am not talking about the My Finds.

 

Let me explain one more time.

 

I have three PQ's that are scheduled to run on Monday's and Thursday's. I do that by selecting that option on the PQ page. It has been set this way for several weeks, perhaps months. I will use PST to simplify the explanation.

 

I would expect those PQ's to run sometime on Thursday. If they didn't run until 23:59;59 Thursday night, that would be acceptable. However, two of them ran at 02:33 Friday morning. Not a big deal EXCEPT for the fact that they now count against Friday's quota even though they were requested to run on Thursday.

 

The third one showed up a few minutes ago at 11:52 PST Friday. 11 hours and 52 minutes beyond Thursday. And again, it decrements my Friday PQ count. Now I can only run 2 PQ's today.

 

The same thing has happened four out of the past six weeks. I do not have specific times for the previous weeks as I delete those emails.

 

I am not interested in conducting an experiment for you. I simply want Groundspeak to formally provide their perspective on why this is happening and what they plan to do to alleviate it in the future.

[+Tequila]

The last of my Thursday PQ's, just arrived at 1500 hrs EST, 15 hours into Friday.

That would actually be 1200 hours PST since that's where the servers are. And 12 hours is well before tomorrow I'd say. Half a day leeway is a lot of leeway.

Is it at all possible that your ISP is slow in getting you your emails? I ask this because my understanding of how the PQs are generated is that it works on Thursday PQs until it becomes Friday. At that point, I think it starts on Friday's PQs regardless of whether Thursday was completed. I rather doubt that the PQ's have been getting so delayed that it can't even finish the twice a week PQs in a single day. Of course, it's possible that the server was temporarily down yesterday which affected that day's PQs. I don't think that it would cause Thursday PQs to be run on Friday, however.

 

It is not a problem with my ISP. The times I receive the emails match with the times the Groundspeak webpage shows they ran. And if it was an ISP delivery problem, then I would not have the problem with the late PQ's counting against Friday's quota.

[+trainlove]

Gosh darn it.

I think I'm going to have to shell out 5 toonies, which should actually be called moonies, and become a PM just to do some experiments of my own.

[AZcachemeister]

I guess I need to be more aware of which PQ I am receiving on what day.

 

I admit it...I am a PQ hog.

 

I have a set of 14 PQs, and have set them up for five to run every day on a rotational basis. While I HAVE noticed that some of the older ones arrive at late hours, I am getting five each day...but I'm not sure if they are the ones I am supposed to be getting on that day!

 

While I understand the OPs feeling that this should be a 'set-it-and-forget-it' system (and indeed it should), I think that if I were experiencing the described problems I would first try creating a new, but identical (to an existing one that has the 'problem') PQ . This new PQ should float to the top of the queue. Then I would observe how long it takes to sink to an unacceptable level.

Six months?

Three?

If it took six or more months, I would just re-do my PQs every six months or so and be happy to get them.

If it took three or less, I would then consider it a problem that needed attention, and I would have some facts to base an argument on.

[AZcachemeister]

Then again, it's only a hypothetical problem if the OP never runs PQs on Fridays anyway. But I do see how having them available COULD be critical if an unplanned trip came up.

[+Tequila]

Then again, it's only a hypothetical problem if the OP never runs PQs on Fridays anyway. But I do see how having them available COULD be critical if an unplanned trip came up.

 

Huh?????

 

There is NOTHING hypothetical about this problem.

 

Who said I don't run PQ's on Friday????? I have three scheduled to run today. But of course only 2 will run because of Thursday PQ's showing up late.

[+ICHTHYS]

Try this.

 

Delete your stored PQ's, once you record the information that makes you want to store them such as date ranges.

Create new PQ's for those previously stored PQ's.

Run your new PQ's.

 

I think the GC algorithm will assign higher priority to your new PQ's. And your PQ's should run faster.

 

 

Even better, don't delete them and remake them, just use the copy feature and run the copy. Same info, less work and the PQ gets run immediately.

[+pppingme]

Is ground-speak doing anything to resolve these issues?

 

There was an obvious change in PQ behavior several months ago with all the other big site changes and PQ timing has been horrible ever since. This is evidenced by the sheer number of posts and threads on this subject.

 

I had several weekly PQ's I ran, before those changes it was rare for me to wake up and they not be there, since the changes I'm lucky to get them by late evening.

 

This isn't a case of just more people are running PQ's, this is a case of something change and ground-speak hasn't figured it out yet.

 

I've had several times where it was getting late evening and they still hadn't run so I end up copying and running the copy. There was even a two day period that new PQ's didn't run.

 

Daily PQ's are even worse. I still copy and run them on a regular basis. I finally had to split them up to run every two or three days and they will don't run by late evening.

 

Ground-speak has either made major changes to how PQ's run or has eliminated equipment (how many "pq generators" were there, do they have their own replica of the databases or do they share one with other functions, etc.) . Such a dramatic change isn't from a swell in users, especially when it coincides with a major change in the site.

[+Damin69]

Not sure what is going on but this is starting to really suck. Ran my PQ over half an hour ago. Still have not received. What do I have to start running my PQ 2 days before I plan to go out caching? I used to be able to have my PQ within a min of submitting. Now I am lucky if I have it 2-3 hours later. This was suppose to be a big benefit of premium member ship.

[AZcachemeister]

Then again, it's only a hypothetical problem if the OP never runs PQs on Fridays anyway. But I do see how having them available COULD be critical if an unplanned trip came up.

 

Huh?????

 

There is NOTHING hypothetical about this problem.

 

Who said I don't run PQ's on Friday????? I have three scheduled to run today. But of course only 2 will run because of Thursday PQ's showing up late.

 

Sorry, you mentioned Monday and Thursday as the days with problems, which left me with the impression that you only ran PQs on those days.

 

I just received four PQs this morning.

The system says they ran on/at:

11/15/2008 3:06:05 AM

11/15/2008 4:14:11 AM

11/15/2008 4:14:33 AM

11/15/2008 5:37:42 AM

 

This is great! Four out of five PQs arrived in my mailbox before 0700, in plenty of time for processing into my in-house statewide database.

 

The funny thing is that those PQs were scheduled to run on Friday!

 

After looking at my grid, it appears some PQs are being pushed into the next day, but that I am indeed getting all the PQs I am entitled to...eventually.

[+KJcachers]

I have had my home area PQ set to run every friday so that when I get home from work on Friday I can get ready for a Saturday of caching. This is our cache day most of the time. In the past my PQ's would be in my in box when I get home. Lately, as in the past month or so, they are not arriving until very late Friday night which doesn't help me. My last 2 came at 11:33pm and 11:45pm. Granted this is still the same day but why does it take almost 24 hours to generate my PQ's? I have resigned myself to running them on Thursday now so I am sure to have a file on Friday evening but now I risk the chance of missing a new cache or an update to an existing cache that may have made it disabled or archived. I hate wasting time looking for a cache only to find it disabled when I get home to log my DNF.

If this is just server congestion than TPTB need to address this. I know we don't pay a ton of money for a membership but we are still paying customers that were told what services would be provided with our payment and this service in my opinion is not working as promised.

[+Damin69]

I just want to know why My sister can run her PQs and get them almost Instantly. I used 3 of my PQs for the day today and have yet to receive any of them. They were all ran at around 6:30 this am. And I sent each one to a different Email Address. NONE have come through. Ticks me off. Sent to my Primary ISP. Yahoo and one to my Gmail None of them have come in.. This sucks.

[+mtn-man]

Would you be happy if your doctor was 12 hours late? If your paycheck didn't arrive on Thursday but showed up 12 hours into Friday??? etc. etc. etc.

Funny one. I love good comedy.

 

How much do you pay per hour for the services of your doctor? How much do you pay per hour for the services of Groundspeak? Increase the pay to Groundspeak to equal the pay to your doctor, and I would imagine you might see a difference. Heck, for that matter, pay me that rate and I would personally do your PQ's for you manually. Got your check book handy? I take credit cards through paypal too. Just let me know when you are ready for me to get to work.

[+trainlove]

Even better, don't delete them and remake them, just use the copy feature and run the copy. Same info, less work and the PQ gets run immediately.

He probably can't since he probably has 40 (or 39) PQ's already defined so he can't make a copy of an existing one before removing that existing one.

 

Sent to my Primary ISP. Yahoo and one to my Gmail None of them have come in.. This sucks.

Most likely an email issue. Your ISP's might be throtling the email from an apparent spam source. Or it doesn't like very large attachments. Or you accidently have a domain in your block list, see this posting about that.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=3662187

[+Damin69]

Sent to my Primary ISP. Yahoo and one to my Gmail None of them have come in.. This sucks.

Most likely an email issue. Your ISP's might be throtling the email from an apparent spam source. Or it doesn't like very large attachments. Or you accidently have a domain in your block list, see this posting about that.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=3662187

I have no IP/Domain blocking on my Primary ISP. Plus it does not explain why When I run a PQ with my account set up on my Gmail it still did not come through. And My sister ran her PQ sent to her Gmail account she got it instantly. And our Queries were sent at within 2 min of each other.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

They must like your sister better.

[+KJcachers]

Would you be happy if your doctor was 12 hours late? If your paycheck didn't arrive on Thursday but showed up 12 hours into Friday??? etc. etc. etc.

Funny one. I love good comedy.

 

How much do you pay per hour for the services of your doctor? How much do you pay per hour for the services of Groundspeak? Increase the pay to Groundspeak to equal the pay to your doctor, and I would imagine you might see a difference. Heck, for that matter, pay me that rate and I would personally do your PQ's for you manually. Got your check book handy? I take credit cards through paypal too. Just let me know when you are ready for me to get to work.

 

As a Moderator are you taking the official stand that Geocaching.com doesn't charge enough for them to provide the service they stated is included in the Premium membership? That if we paid more we could get what was originally promised? As a Moderator do you have to defend TPTB no matter what? As a Moderator shouldn't you communicate in a more professional manner to members of the board who have issues? As a Moderator...will you be banning me now for asking these questions? ( Everybody else, if you don't see me here for awhile you know the answer)

 

One more thing, Does the PQ server know what time zone the request is coming from and could it schedule PQ's accordingly? My last PQ's were generated at 8:33pm and 8:46pm west coast time. What happens to PQ's that techically are generated at say 11:00pm west coast time? If they were requested from somebody on the east coast then they wouldn't arrive until the next day so "today" can be tomorrow for some of us if the PQ's get generated too late.

Edited November 15, 2008 by KJcachers

[AZcachemeister]

**LATE BREAKING NEWSFLASH!!**

 

Sometime around 1000 Hrs. my fifth and final PQ from YESTERDAY'S schedule arrived in my mailbox.

That makes five PQs I received today...there should be no more forthcoming today, right?

 

BZZZT! SORRY, WRONG ANSWER!!

 

I just checked my inbox only to see two MORE PQs waiting for me to pick up. Two that were scheduled for today.

 

So, as of 1225 Hrs. today I have received a total of SEVEN PQs, and I'll bet I get more before 2359 Hrs. tonight.

 

So, it appears to me that you may only SCHEDULE 5 PQs per day, but if they are delayed for some reason they will run and be delivered as fast as possible.

 

While there may be reason to complain that the PQ server, or the mail server are bogging down and not performing optimally, our PQs should be delivered as fast as possible, and all of them should eventually arrive.

[+pppingme]

So, it appears to me that you may only SCHEDULE 5 PQs per day, but if they are delayed for some reason they will run and be delivered as fast as possible.

This is true, kind of, but also not totally in context for the complaints.

 

"IF" and only if, you already have 5 scheduled, for the current day, then any carry over from the previous day and the full 5 for the current day will run.

 

If you have lets say 2 carry over from the previous day, and you only had 2 scheduled for the current day, then the system will only let you run or schedule ONE more, where by all rights you should have the ability to schedule 3 more, so your cheated by 2.

 

If something is already scheduled it will run, but if you try to run or schedule something, it counts anything that ran that day, scheduled or carry over, against you.

 

So your statement, although true, is partially out of context to the complaints and doesn't match every complaint.

 

As an additional note, if you have 5 scheduled for the current day, and you had 2 carry over from the previous day, if you un-schedule one for the current day (assuming it hasn't run yet), then you will not be able to reschedule it or another PQ in its place, you loose that spot once you un-check it.