Cemetery caches at night

[+crleap]

I am new to caching, and I find that I MUCH prefer caching at night than during the day for several reasons... I have the areas to myself, I like nighttime, and it makes it more challenging to only be able to search within the confines of a flashlight beam. I do have a question however, about tact and the reasoning behind some cemetery cache owners' descriptions.

 

I have seen several cemetery caches that instruct us not to hunt at night, and some even go so far as to warn that they will remove logs that indicate night hunting. I understand this would be obvious if the cemetery has posted hours, etc. But many times these are old rural cemeteries, open air, with minimal fencing, if any, surrounded by fields. I enjoy cemetery caches, they all tell a story, and generally look at all the headstones (within reason). I pick up trash, upright any knocked over headstones, etc. I was wondering what the rationale behind cache owners setting arbitrary "rules" that restrict finding their caches to during the day. Is there any rationale behind this... because I see nothing wrong at all with caching at night, day, whenever, as long as we are following the rules of geocaching... CITO and leave no trace.

 

Any input as to why this is frowned upon by some cache owners, and if there is a generally held opinion on the acceptability of visiting the cemeteries at night? I, for one, see nothing at all wrong with it as long as there's no cemetery-originated rules that forbid it.

[+StarBrand]

Appearance.

 

There are many that frown upon any Geocaching in cemetaries at any time but at night it becomes a particularly sensitive issue. There are a lot of creeps and weirdos out there that have been known to do some bizarre things in cemetaries after sundown. We just don't want to be counted amoung them.

 

Also at least one state made a very political case out of the fact that some Geocachers were allegedly in a cemetary after dark. It nearly got Geocaching banned on most state properties.

 

Also, many of these Geocachers got permission to place the cemetary caches from the land manager. Many of those agreements may have banned Geocaching after dark even though the area is open to public visits. Please honor any such requests.

[Keystone]

All local laws apply.

[+trainlove]

All local laws apply.

Just about everywhere, entering a cemetary at night is against the law. Just because you do not know that, until now, does not make you immune to prosecution. Just don't go into any at night. What their definition of night and your definition is also not up to you.

[Mr.Yuck]

All local laws apply.

 

You always say that.

 

Ok, being from Indiana, you're probably sitting in the middle of the highest concentration of Cemetery caches on the planet. I'll bet almost all of them are part of the "Indiana Spirit Quest" series. I just looked, and the template for those cache pages does forbid night caching. Also, look at point #5, in the profile of the head of the Indiana Spirit Quest guy.

 

I agree, and think this is just the responsible thing for geocachers to do. As someone else mentioned, some of the most damning evidence when a South Carolina State Senator went bonkers over geocaching was geocachers acting like idiots in cemeteries at night.

[Barnie's Band of Gold]

Cemetary caching is not a good idea, especially when it is clear that common sense is not used in placements and when to visit.

 

We have a good game going here but will continue to see more and more restrictions imposed if we don't do a better job of policing ourselves.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

For any cache (cemetery or otherwise), if cache page indicates that there are restriction as to the times that the property may be entered, you (as the finder/seeker) should respect that.

 

As indicated above, the cache owner may have agreed to the stipulation when they got permission from the land owner. Or they may have researched local laws and/or policies.

[+mfamilee]

Spooky!

[+Renegade Knight]

...I, for one, see nothing at all wrong with it as long as there's no cemetery-originated rules that forbid it.

 

In the bigger sence of life, there is nothing wrong with a person being out in the world 24/7. Crime, Vandalism etc. caused folks to invent laws to keep out the law abiding while of course not doing a dadgum bit of good for keeping out the riff raff. The good pay the price for the evil.

 

Still local laws and rules apply. If there is no rule about being somewhere at night then you can enjoy the same freedome enjoyed by your distant ancestors who didn't have to content with all the modern laws that don't accoplish much.

 

Cache owners as Starbrand points out are concerend with appearances and perception. To keep up appearnces they have set a rule for finding the cache. The simple solution appears to be follow the real rules and don't log that you broke an owner rule about when you can seek a cache that has no real life hours of operation. I can think of a few abandoned cemetaries that fit the bill. I cant' think of any urban or even rural ones in populated areas that do.

[Neos2]

It's just not smart to log online that you broke a guideline, a law, or a cache owner's suggested rule....It really screams for someone to have to "do something" about the "violation" and it just seems like boasting that you are above the rules by which others must abide.

 

Even IF you go do a cache and only after you find it and are leaving you find out you have broken a rule. If you really must confess, please do so privately to the cache owner in an email.

 

Most folks can overlook a rule-straying visit now and then, especially if they don't know about it. If you got in got the cache and got away with it, well there ya go...don't do it again and don't push the envelope.

 

It's just not smart to visit cemeteries at night.

 

I say that as someone who just adores cemeteries and as someone who appreciates cemetery hides.

 

I have multiple reasons:

 

*It is illegal many places. It is "not allowed" many places. It is "not encouraged" in even more places.

*Are you really willing to take the time to become a specialist in the local, state, and federal laws about cemeteries? To research ahead of time which are private or public (the laws are often different)? To search the entire perimeter for posted hours? In some places they don't have to post hours, the hours are ____ to _____ (fill in the local rules--usually dawn to dusk).

*Question: What time is dawn? dusk? Answer:Whatever time the person with the badge, the flashlight, and the gun says is dawn or dusk.)

*Vandals tend to visits cemeteries at night. You do not want to be confused with a vandal.

*It is too easy to trip over unseen items in a cemetery at night and hurt yourself or damage something in the cemetery. Along with headstones, there are foot stones some places, urns, flags, decorative baskets etc--any of which can be sitting almost anywhere on the grounds.

*In older cemeteries, there may be coffins that have collapsed. Many of these are unmarked graves, so you have little or no warning you are even near a grave. This causes uneven footing, and again, it may led to you hurting yourself.

 

Skip the cemeteries at night. Save them for the rare day caching you do.

It will make them seem more special to you.

[+truckdweller]

Besides all of the above....

 

R..E..S..P..E..C..T! <Sing it Aretha>

[+ladyleo191]

[ I was wondering what the rationale behind cache owners setting arbitrary "rules" that restrict finding their caches to during the day. Is there any rationale behind this... because I see nothing wrong at all with caching at night, day, whenever, as long as we are following the rules of geocaching... CITO and leave no trace.]

 

There doesn't need to be a rationale for the rule. The cache owners decide under what circumstances their cache is hunted. It's after all, their cache. I'm sure you feel the same way about your property.

 

Whether you see anything wrong with it or not is beside the point. It's not your property and you aren't entitled to do as you please.

[+ladyleo191]

Edited for double post due to fatal error.

Edited November 14, 2008 by ladyleo191

[+TazDevil091102]

All local laws apply.

 

 

 

This says it all. Not all place outlaw going into cemeteries at night. I've played tackle football in an old cemetery at night before.

[+crleap]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I think I see the consensus is that it's mainly about appearances. I certainly didn't mean to imply that I am intentionally breaking the laws, as there are no hours stated that I could find in the Indiana codes. City cemeteries where I live do have signs stating the hours they are open, but as my question stated I am not condoning breaking cemetery-set rules, and the cemeteries I am speaking about are generally the little rural ones in the middle of fields as my post said. These little ones are easy to survey in one glance to see if there are any signs posted that might state hours or rules, and I never climb over fences or closed gates. So please don't think me a troublemaker who is looking to circumvent laws or cemetery rules, as I felt this was the tone of some of the replies.... this is certainly not the case at all. I do use extreme care when in the cemeteries, I will not be tripping over anything or walking directly over the burial earth, I use a huge flashlight and keep a distance from the stones themselves.

 

I do see the importance of protecting this activity in terms of legislation, I was not aware of the legal issues raised in NC, which I have now read about. Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions and experience

[+WRASTRO]

I am new to caching, and I find that I MUCH prefer caching at night than during the day for several reasons... I have the areas to myself, I like nighttime, and it makes it more challenging to only be able to search within the confines of a flashlight beam. I do have a question however, about tact and the reasoning behind some cemetery cache owners' descriptions.

 

I have seen several cemetery caches that instruct us not to hunt at night, and some even go so far as to warn that they will remove logs that indicate night hunting. I understand this would be obvious if the cemetery has posted hours, etc. But many times these are old rural cemeteries, open air, with minimal fencing, if any, surrounded by fields. I enjoy cemetery caches, they all tell a story, and generally look at all the headstones (within reason). I pick up trash, upright any knocked over headstones, etc. I was wondering what the rationale behind cache owners setting arbitrary "rules" that restrict finding their caches to during the day. Is there any rationale behind this... because I see nothing wrong at all with caching at night, day, whenever, as long as we are following the rules of geocaching... CITO and leave no trace.

 

Any input as to why this is frowned upon by some cache owners, and if there is a generally held opinion on the acceptability of visiting the cemeteries at night? I, for one, see nothing at all wrong with it as long as there's no cemetery-originated rules that forbid it.

If you are going to play the game and respect the game then you should be respecting the "rules" that hiders place on their caches. If you just decide to do whatever you feel like then you will very likely contribute to caches being archived due to finders not following the rules for the particular cache. You need to adopt a view of Geocaching that considers the whole and not just you and your current experience.

 

Please don't assume that you know better than the cache hider/owner when it comes to the available times to hunt a cache.

[Neos2]

IC 23-14-32-1

Curfews to memorialize the dead

Sec. 1. A county, city, or town may impose a curfew specific to cemeteries or other facilities used to memorialize the dead under IC 31-37-3-5.

As added by P.L.103-1996, SEC.3. Amended by P.L.1-1997, SEC.108.

 

IC 23-14-65-27

Management and control of cemetery

Sec. 27. A cemetery board has exclusive management and control of a cemetery or cemeteries transferred to or acquired by the cemetery board, including:

(1) all of the property, whether real, personal, or mixed, acquired by the cemetery board for cemetery purposes; and

(2) the part of a public road or street that passes through the cemetery.

As added by P.L.52-1997, SEC.39.

 

IC 23-14-65-28

Rules; enforcement

Sec. 28. (a) A cemetery board may do the following:

(1) Make reasonable rules and regulations for the management, control, direction, care, and maintenance of the property under the control of the cemetery board.

(2) Make and enforce reasonable regulations respecting the placement and erection of markers, monuments, tombstones, and mausoleums that any person desires to place or erect in the cemetery.

(3) Seize and impound animals running at large in the cemetery and establish a suitable place for impounding them, assessing the reasonable costs to the owner.

(4) Vacate streets, alleys, roads, or highways, or parts of them, lying within lands under the control of the cemetery board in the same manner as is prescribed under the powers of street improvement authority of the municipality.

(5) Provide proper facilities for furnishing electric lighting, water, and sewer facilities in the cemetery, ordering a public utility to construct and install equipment that is necessary for these purposes.

( For the purposes of making rules and regulations for the management and control of property under subsection (a)(1), a cemetery board may request from the police authority of the municipality the manpower necessary to carry out and enforce the rules and regulations of the cemetery board. The police authority shall comply with the request to the extent that it is able to comply at the time the request is made, considering all other obligations and duties of the police authority. If the cemetery board and the police authority disagree over these matters, the controversy shall be settled by an order of the executive of the municipality.

As added by P.L.52-1997, SEC.39.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Neos2

[+jtbrady01]

I was going to even add in that some of the smallest cemetery's I've been to have had signs posted that they close at sundown. Which is why the most of the cemetery caches indicate no night caching.

[+crleap]

Thanks for pointing out that section of the IC, I didn't turn that up somehow when I did a search online. However it really doesnt tell me much except that counties can set laws about cemeteries, which is pretty much common sense. This does however point to the possibility of a blanket curfew on rural cemeteries with unposted hours. I'll check into the county law in my county to find out if one is set.

 

On a side note, I'd appreciate if everyone would read my posts before they add their own, because I'm a bit irked by the tone of several of them that seem like they were simply made to scold me or tell me I shouldn't do something that I already stated I don't do... I wasn't looking to get scolded, I was looking for a general opinion on the subject, which some have provided. There continue to be posts about possible signs stating closing times, and I already said I don't violate those terms and I am able to and do check for them beforehand. I also never said I violate the terms of the cache that the owner posts, such as the Spirit Quest ones... but several posts seem to want to slap my hands and say bad bad, when I never once stated I went to those caches at night anyway... I don't. I just wanted to find out some opinions on WHY those were set that way to begin with. I think the first reply cleared up most of my questions. The posts that go from there implying that I am willingly breaking the rules and taking on an air of parental correction were unnecessary. If I wanted to get scolded I'd go back and live with my parents again. I was just looking for a flow of ideas from the more experienced cachers as I get into this hobby. Thanks to those that offered them without a condescending tone.

[Mr.Yuck]

Thanks for pointing out that section of the IC, I didn't turn that up somehow when I did a search online. However it really doesnt tell me much except that counties can set laws about cemeteries, which is pretty much common sense. This does however point to the possibility of a blanket curfew on rural cemeteries with unposted hours. I'll check into the county law in my county to find out if one is set.

 

On a side note, I'd appreciate if everyone would read my posts before they add their own, because I'm a bit irked by the tone of several of them that seem like they were simply made to scold me or tell me I shouldn't do something that I already stated I don't do... I wasn't looking to get scolded, I was looking for a general opinion on the subject, which some have provided. There continue to be posts about possible signs stating closing times, and I already said I don't violate those terms and I am able to and do check for them beforehand. I also never said I violate the terms of the cache that the owner posts, such as the Spirit Quest ones... but several posts seem to want to slap my hands and say bad bad, when I never once stated I went to those caches at night anyway... I don't. I just wanted to find out some opinions on WHY those were set that way to begin with. I think the first reply cleared up most of my questions. The posts that go from there implying that I am willingly breaking the rules and taking on an air of parental correction were unnecessary. If I wanted to get scolded I'd go back and live with my parents again. I was just looking for a flow of ideas from the more experienced cachers as I get into this hobby. Thanks to those that offered them without a condescending tone.

 

What, you didn't put on your asbestos underwear before posting here? Eh, don't worry about it, I see what you're saying; very rural semi-maintained, even or non-maintained cemeteries with no fencing, no posted hours. I've been to several over the course of my caching career. If they're part of the Spirit Quest series, I'd say it's pretty clear the cache owner doesn't want night caching.

[+ladyleo191]

The attitude you notice may have something to do with your use of phrases like "arbitrary rules"by the cache owner and the fact that you see nothing wrong with it as long as there are any "cemetery-originated" rules against night hunts.

 

It came across to me, and possibly to others, as an indication that you don't think rules should be obeyed unless you think they have a reason that applies to you. It almost appeared to me that you felt cache owners were restricting you beyond what you feel entitled to as a finder and their rules weren't important.

 

If I misinterpreted your post, I apologize, but that was how I read your OP.

[+jtbrady01]

I grew up in Kokomo and have cached in many of the cemetery's in Howard Co. If I'm not mistaken all of the caches are marked no night caching. Not too many of them are in the ISQ series. I have three cemetery caches myself. One is an ISQ and two aren't. I don't want anyone to cache in the cemetery at night because to much mischief goes on at night with vandalism and I don't want it to be possibly linked to a Geocacher. Not that any one of use would ever do anything like that. Also, like I've stated before most are all posted with regulated hours for visiting. It's just a common courtesy to respect the wishes of a cache owner. If a cache was placed near a business and the request of the business owner was to not have anyone hunt for the cache during business hours. Would my request on the cache page to limit caching between the hours of 8am-6pm be out of the question and left up to the cache hunter to arbitrarily violate? I don't think anyone here was implying that you were violating any rules or laws. Just trying to help clarify things a bit.