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DancingDan

NGS benchmark recovered

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While geocaching I found a NGS disc with a description "E3" with a year of 1935. It is in very good condition cemented in rock under the branches of a mesquite bush. I tried finding it in the NGS datasheet records for Pima County Arizona but it doesn't seem to be recorded. What steps should I take from here to complete a recovery?

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What is the agency inscription on the survey disk?

 

I am guessing it says US Geological Survey?

Edited by Z15

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What is the agency inscription on the survey disk?

 

I am guessing it says US Geological Survey?

 

The inscription says" U.S. Coast & Geodetic survey reference mark"

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The inscription says" U.S. Coast & Geodetic survey reference mark"

Reference marks often don't have their own listings in the NGS database, but they're usually mentioned on the datasheet of the station they're referencing. Use the coordinates of the mark you found to look for nearby marks, and you'll very possibly find the main station.

 

Patty

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I searched the DB but cannot find anything that fits with E3. Are you sure that's all that was stamped on the disk or that the mark is in Pima County?

 

Usually a reference mark is stamped NO. 1, NO. 2, NO. 3 along with the main station stamped, for instance Z15 NO. 2

Edited by Z15

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I searched the DB but cannot find anything that fits with E3. Are you sure that's all that was stamped on the disk or that the mark is in Pima County?

 

Usually a reference mark is stamped NO. 1, NO. 2, NO. 3 along with the main station stamped, for instance Z15 NO. 2

 

I took a digital picture of the marker. It does have C.W.A. and E3 and below the E3 there is an arrow symbol and right below the arrow symbol there is an obscured stamp that ends with 0.1 so maybe that is the NO.1 mark you are referring to. The marker is definitly in Pima County.

Edited by DancingDan

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Can't find anything about that mark. The main station must be lost and only that mark remains because I can find only one other labeled C W A 2

 

That arrow is pointing to the main station. Typically they are within 100 ft of that Reference Mark.

 

 

here is CWA 2

 

 

 

 

 

The NGS Data Sheet

See file dsdata.txt for more information about the datasheet.

 

DATABASE = ,PROGRAM = datasheet, VERSION = 7.63

*** NOTE - This dataset contains Destroyed Marks Only.

 

1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = NOVEMBER 12, 2008

CZ0068 ***********************************************************************

CZ0068 DESIGNATION - CWA

CZ0068 PID - CZ0068

CZ0068 STATE/COUNTY- AZ/PIMA

CZ0068 USGS QUAD - TUCSON EAST (1992)

CZ0068

CZ0068 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL

CZ0068 ___________________________________________________________________

CZ0068* NAD 83(1986)- 32 08 01.99210(N) 110 51 29.40134(W) ADJUSTED

CZ0068* NAVD 88 - 841.34 (+/-2cm) 2760.3 (feet) VERTCON

CZ0068 ___________________________________________________________________

CZ0068 LAPLACE CORR- 4.46 (seconds) DEFLEC99

CZ0068 GEOID HEIGHT- -29.16 (meters) GEOID03

CZ0068 HORZ ORDER - SECOND

CZ0068 VERT ORDER - FIRST CLASS II (See Below)

CZ0068

CZ0068.The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods

CZ0068.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in July 1986.

CZ0068

CZ0068.The NAVD 88 height was computed by applying the VERTCON shift value to

CZ0068.the NGVD 29 height (displayed under SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL.)

CZ0068.The vertical order pertains to the NGVD 29 superseded value.

CZ0068

CZ0068.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC99 derived deflections.

CZ0068

CZ0068.The geoid height was determined by GEOID03.

CZ0068

CZ0068; North East Units Scale Factor Converg.

CZ0068;SPC AZ C - 126,202.672 313,227.837 MT 1.00002296 +0 33 47.0

CZ0068;SPC AZ C - 414,050.76 1,027,650.38 iFT 1.00002296 +0 33 47.0

CZ0068;UTM 12 - 3,555,284.987 513,377.383 MT 0.99960221 +0 04 31.6

CZ0068

CZ0068! - Elev Factor x Scale Factor = Combined Factor

CZ0068!SPC AZ C - 0.99987249 x 1.00002296 = 0.99989545

CZ0068!UTM 12 - 0.99987249 x 0.99960221 = 0.99947475

CZ0068

CZ0068 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL

CZ0068

CZ0068 NAD 27 - 32 08 01.71500(N) 110 51 27.08600(W) AD( ) 2

CZ0068 NGVD 29 (??/??/92) 840.70 (m) 2758.2 (f) COMPUTED 1 2

CZ0068

CZ0068.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control.

CZ0068.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums.

CZ0068.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived.

CZ0068

CZ0068_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 12SWA1337755285(NAD 83)

CZ0068_MARKER: DS = TRIANGULATION STATION DISK

CZ0068_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT

CZ0068_SP_SET: SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT

CZ0068_STAMPING: C.W.A 1935

CZ0068_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO

CZ0068+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION

CZ0068

CZ0068 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

CZ0068 HISTORY - 1935 MONUMENTED AZHD

CZ0068 HISTORY - 1952 GOOD CGS

CZ0068 HISTORY - 1952 GOOD NGS

CZ0068 HISTORY - 1960 GOOD CGS

CZ0068 HISTORY - 1960 GOOD NGS

CZ0068 HISTORY - 1968 GOOD AMS

CZ0068 HISTORY - 1979 MARK NOT FOUND NGS

CZ0068 HISTORY - 1982 DESTROYED NGS

CZ0068

CZ0068 STATION DESCRIPTION

CZ0068

CZ0068'DESCRIBED BY ARIZONA HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT (NOW AZDT) 1935 (EBL)

CZ0068'ABOUT 10 MILES SOUTHEAST FROM THE CENTER OF TUCSON. TO

CZ0068'REACH FROM INTERSECTION OF U.S. HIGHWAY NO. 80 AND WILMOT

CZ0068'ROAD, TURN LEFT FROM THE HIGHWAY AND GO 1.0 MILE. CROSS

CZ0068'RAILROAD TRACKS AND CONTINUE 0.3 MILE TO STATION WHICH IS

CZ0068'40 FEET WEST OF CENTER OF ROAD. MARKED BY A STANDARD BRONZE

CZ0068'DISK. REFERENCE MARK NO. 1, A STANDARD

CZ0068'BRONZE REFERENCE DISK, 18.420 METERS (60.43

CZ0068'FEET) FROM STATION. REFERENCE

CZ0068'MARK NO. 2, A STANDARD BRONZE REFERENCE DISK,IS

CZ0068'17.295 METERS (56.74 FEET) FROM STATION.

CZ0068'AZIMUTH MARK, A STANDARD BRONZE DISK,

CZ0068'IS ON EAST SIDE OF ROAD 200 YARDS FROM STATION,

CZ0068

CZ0068 STATION RECOVERY (1952)

CZ0068

CZ0068'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1952 (JRP)

CZ0068'STATION AND REFERENCE MARKS RECOVERED AS DISCRIBED, IN GOOD

CZ0068'CONDITION. STATION CAN ALSO BE REACHED WITH THE FOLLOWING

CZ0068'DISCRIPTION. FOLLOW THE SOUTHERN PACIFIC RAILROAD 10.1

CZ0068'MILE SOUTHEAST FROM THE RAILROAD STATION AT TUCSON, THEN

CZ0068'TURN NORTH AND FOLLOW WILMOT ROAD 0.3 MILE TO THE SUMMIT

CZ0068'OF A SMALL GRADE, WINDMILL, AND A WATER TANK, THE STATION IS

CZ0068'A STANDARD U.S.C. AND G.S. AND S.S. STATION STAMPED C.W.A.

CZ0068'1935, AND SET IN THE TOP OF A CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 0.6

CZ0068'FOOT ABOVE THE GROUND, AND ABOUT LEVEL WITH THE ROAD. 114

CZ0068'FEET EAST OF THE WINDMILL, 100 FEET NORTHWEST OF THE CENTER

CZ0068'OF A WOODEN GATE AT A FENCE LINE, 57 FEET WEST OF THE

CZ0068'CENTER LINE OF THE ROAD, 2.4 FEET WEST OF A FENCE, 1.4 FEET

CZ0068'SOUTHEAST OF A WITNESS POST, REFERENCE MARK NO. 1 IS A

CZ0068'STANDARD U.S.C. AND G.S. REFERENCE MARK DISK STAMPED C.W.A.

CZ0068'NO. 1 1935, AND SET IN THE TOP OF A CONCRETE POST

CZ0068'PROJECTING 0.3 FOOT ABOVE THE GROUND, AND ABOUT LEVEL WITH

CZ0068'THE STATION, 60.43 FEET SOUTH OF THE STATION, 45 FEET

CZ0068'WEST OF THE CENTER LINE OF THE ROAD, 40 FEET NORTH OF THE

CZ0068'CENTER OF THE WOODEN GATE, 7 FEET WEST OF THE FENCE.

CZ0068'REFERENCE MARK NO. 2 IS A STANDARD U.S.C. AND G.S.

CZ0068'REFERENCE MARK DISK STAMPED C.W.A. NO 2 1935, AND SET

CZ0068'IN THE TOP OF A CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 0.3 FOOT ABOVE

CZ0068'THE GROUND, AND ABOUT LEVEL WITH THE STATION, 68 FEET

CZ0068'SOUTHEAST OF THE WINDMILL, 56.74 FEET WEST OF THE

CZ0068'STATION, THE AZIMUTH MARK IS A STANDARD U.S.C. AND G.S. REFERENCE

CZ0068'MARK DISK STAMPED C.W.A. NO. 3 1935, 0.2 MILE SOUTH OF THE

CZ0068'STATION, 30 FEET EAST OF THE CENTER LINE OF THE WILMOT

CZ0068'ROAD, 2.4 FEET WEST OF A WITNESS POST, 0.6 FOOT EAST OF A

CZ0068'FENCE LINE.

CZ0068

CZ0068 STATION RECOVERY (1952)

CZ0068

CZ0068'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1952

CZ0068'10.4 MI SE FROM TUCSON.

CZ0068'10.1 MILES SOUTHEAST ALONG THE SOUTHERN PACIFIC COMPANY RAILROAD FROM

CZ0068'THE STATION AT TUCSON, THENCE 0.3 MILES NORTH ALONG THE WILMOT ROAD,

CZ0068'AT ABOUT THE SUMMIT OF A SMALL GRADE, IN A SMALL FENCE ENCLOSURE FOR A

CZ0068'WINDMILL AND A WATER TANK, 114 FEET EAST OF THE WINDMILL, 100 FEET

CZ0068'NORTHWEST OF THE CENTER OF A WOODEN GATE, 57 FEET WEST OF THE CENTER

CZ0068'LINE OF THE ROAD, 2.4 FEET WEST OF A FENCE, 1.4 FEET SOUTHEAST OF A

CZ0068'WITNESS POST, ABOUT LEVEL WITH THE ROAD, AND SET IN THE TOP OF A

CZ0068'CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 0.6 FOOT ABOVE THE GROUND.

CZ0068

CZ0068 STATION RECOVERY (1960)

CZ0068

CZ0068'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1960 (WWH)

CZ0068'THE STATION, REFERENCE AND THE AZIMUTH MARK WERE RECOVERED

CZ0068'AND FOUND TO BE IN GOOD CONDITION.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'A COMPLETE DESCRIPTION FOLLOWS.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'THE STATION IS ABOUT 8 MILES SOUTHEAST OF THE CENTER OF TUCSON,

CZ0068'0.3 MILE NORTH OF A RAILROAD GRADE CROSSING AND IN A FLAT BRUSH

CZ0068'COVERED AREA.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'TO REACH FROM THE JUNCTION OF U.S. HIGHWAY 80 AND U.S. HIGHWAY

CZ0068'89 AT TUCSON GO SOUTHEAST ON U.S. HIGHWAY 80 FOR 7.6 MILES

CZ0068'TO THE EXIT ROAD FOR WILMOT ROAD. BEAR TO THE RIGHT ON THE

CZ0068'EXIT ROAD AND GO 0.5 MILE TO WILMOT ROAD. TURN LEFT, NORTH,

CZ0068'AND GO 1.1 MILE ON GRAVEL ROAD TO A RAILROAD GRADE CROSSING.

CZ0068'CROSS RAILROAD TRACKS AND CONTINUE NORTH FOR 0.1 MILE TO THE

CZ0068'AZIMUTH MARK ON THE RIGHT. CONTINUE NORTH FOR 0.2 MILE TO THE

CZ0068'STATION ON THE LEFT.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'THE STATION MARK, STAMPED C.W.A. 1935, IS A COAST AND GEODETIC

CZ0068'SURVEY AND STATE SURVEY BRONZE DISK SET IN THE TOP OF A 6

CZ0068'INCH SQUARE PRECAST CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 0.8 FOOT, 95

CZ0068'1/2 FEET SOUTHWEST OF A POWER POLE, 58 FEET WEST OF THE

CZ0068'CENTERLINE OF THE GRAVEL ROAD AND 3.4 FEET SOUTHEAST OF

CZ0068'A WOODEN WITNESS POST.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'REFERENCE MARK NO. 1, STAMPED C.W.A. NO 1 1935, IS A STANDARD

CZ0068'DISK SET IN A SQUARE CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 3 INCHES, 44

CZ0068'1/2 FEET WEST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE ROAD AND ABOUT THE

CZ0068'SAME ELEVATION AS THE STATION.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'REFERENCE MARK NO. 2, STAMPED C.W.A. NO 2 1935, IS A STANDARD

CZ0068'DISK SET IN A SQUARE CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 3 INCHES, 114

CZ0068'FEET WEST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE ROAD AND ABOUT THE SAME

CZ0068'ELEVATION AS THE STATION.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'THE AZIMUTH MARK, STAMPED C.W.A. NO 3 1935, IS A STANDARD

CZ0068'REFERENCE DISK SET IN A SQUARE CONCRETE POST PROJECTING

CZ0068'3 INCHES, 27-1/2 FEET EAST OF THE CENTER OF THE GRAVEL ROAD,

CZ0068'2.1 FEET WEST OF A WOODEN WITNESS POST AND 0.5 FOOT EAST

CZ0068'OF A NORTH-SOUTH FENCE LINE.

CZ0068

CZ0068 STATION RECOVERY (1960)

CZ0068

CZ0068'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1960

CZ0068'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.

CZ0068

CZ0068 STATION RECOVERY (1968)

CZ0068

CZ0068'RECOVERY NOTE BY US ARMY MAP SERVICE (NOW DMA) 1968

CZ0068'MARK IS LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 35.0 AIRMILES (WNW) OF BENSON,

CZ0068'ARIZONA. 7.0 AIRMILES (ESE) OF INTERSECTION OF ROUTES 80

CZ0068'AND 89 IN SOUTH TUCSON, ARIZONA.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'TO REACH MARK FROM INTERSECTION OF U.S. HWY 80 AND U.S. HWY

CZ0068'89 IN SOUTH TUCSON, ARIZONA. GO (SE) FOR 7.6 MILES ON U.S.

CZ0068'HWY 80 TO EXIT RAMP FOR WILMOT ROAD. TURN RIGHT (SE) AND

CZ0068'GO 0.4 MILE TO WILMOT ROAD. TURN LEFT (N) AND GO 1.1 MILES

CZ0068'TO A RAILROAD CROSSING, CONTINUE FOR 0.2 MILE TO AZIMUTH

CZ0068'MARK ON RIGHT, CONTINUE 0.1 MILE TO END OF TRUCK TRAVEL

CZ0068'AND STATION SITE.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'MARK IS LOCATED 17.7 N (W) OF CENTERLINE WILMOT ROAD. 10.0

CZ0068'M (SE) OF A WHITE WITNESS POST 29.0 M (SW) OF A POWER POLE.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'STATION IS MARKED BY A USC AND GS AND STATE SURVEY BRONZE

CZ0068'DISK SET IN A 0.15 M X 0.15 M CONCRETE MONUMENT PROTRUDING

CZ0068'0.17 M. STAMPED CWA 1935.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'R.M. 1 IS A USC AND GS BRONZE DISK CEMENTED IN A 0.33 M X 0.33 M

CZ0068'CONCRETE MONUMENT PROTRUDING 0.1 M. STAMPED CWA NO 1 1935.

CZ0068'IT IS LOCATED 18.43 M (SSE) OF MARK

CZ0068'AND A DE OF -0.06 M.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'R.M. 2 IS A USC AND GS BRONZE DISK CEMENTED IN A 0.33 X 0.33 M

CZ0068'CONCRETE MONUMENT PROTRUDING 0.1 M. STAMPED CWA NO 2 1935.

CZ0068'IT IS LOCATED 17.29 M (W) OF MARK

CZ0068'AND A DE OF -0.24 M.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'AZIMUTH MARK IS A USC AND GS BRONZE DISK SET IN A 0.33 X

CZ0068'0.33 M CONCRETE POST PROTRUDING 0.1 M. STAMPED CWA NO 3

CZ0068'1935. IT IS LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 0.2 MILE (S) OF MARK.

CZ0068'IT IS 7.3 M (E) OF CENTERLINE WILMOT

CZ0068'ROAD. 0.64 M (W) OF A WHITE WITNESS POST. DIRECTLY BENEATH

CZ0068'A BARB-WIRE FENCE.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'CONDITION OF ALL MARKS IS EXCELLENT. VIEW IS EXCELLENT

CZ0068'IN ALL DIRECTIONS.

CZ0068

CZ0068 STATION RECOVERY (1979)

CZ0068

CZ0068'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1979

CZ0068'SURFACE MARK DESTROYED, TOP PART OF THE POST WAS FOUND BROKEN OFF.

CZ0068'THE DISK WAS NOT RECOVERED.

CZ0068

CZ0068 STATION RECOVERY (1982)

CZ0068

CZ0068'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1982 (CLN)

CZ0068'THE SURFACE STATION MARK WAS RECOVERED WITH THE DISK REMOVED. A NEW

CZ0068'DISK WAS SET IN THE REMAINDER OF THE MARK HOLE IN THE ORIGINAL

CZ0068'POSITION. THE DISTANCES AND ANGLES TO THE REFERENCE MARKS CHECK.

CZ0068'THE AZIMUTH MARK IS OBSTRUCTED BY BRUSH ALONG THE ROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY.

CZ0068'

CZ0068'THE REFERENCE MARKS WERE RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED IN GOOD CONDITION.

CZ0068'THE ROUTE TO THE STATION REMAINS UNCHANGED.

 

*** retrieval complete.

Elapsed Time = 00:00:00

 

 

 

Edited by Z15

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Interesting! The station recovery notes above are actually on the SE side of down town Tucson whereas the disc I have discovered is on the SW side of Tucson which is many miiles away. The arrow actually points in the direction of the station? I will try and find the station in that direction. There is nothing recorded as a station in the vicinity

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Here is another possibility farther west:

 

National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = DECEMBER 2, 2008

CZ1849 ***********************************************************************

CZ1849 DESIGNATION - CWA 2

CZ1849 PID - CZ1849

CZ1849 STATE/COUNTY- AZ/PIMA

CZ1849 USGS QUAD - TUCSON (1992)

CZ1849

CZ1849 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL

CZ1849 ___________________________________________________________________

CZ1849* NAD 83(1992)- 32 08 41.14430(N) 110 57 09.48957(W) ADJUSTED

CZ1849* NAVD 88 - 776. (meters) 2546. (feet) SCALED

CZ1849 ___________________________________________________________________

CZ1849 LAPLACE CORR- 2.26 (seconds) DEFLEC99

CZ1849 GEOID HEIGHT- -29.36 (meters) GEOID03

CZ1849 HORZ ORDER - SECOND

 

Note that RM 3 is quite a ways away from the station. Based on a quick computation from the above station, the Azimuth mark which they are also calling RM3 seems to fall in a park between a couple of baseball or softball fields.

 

Does any of that fit? If not, it helps others help you if you give the position where you found the thing and the picture, etc. Also the whole discussion should probably move over to the benchmarking topic.

 

- jlw

Edited by jwahl

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