PN-40 Road Show NW

[+NeverSummer]

Bummer!

[+fairyhoney]

Amazon has the PN-40 for $289 with free shipping! That's over $100 off! I wanted the SE, but man , that price is hard to pass up. Is there any difference with the SE besides the extra internal memory?

 

It's just the extra internal memory, although through Christmas DeLorme is shipping them with a belt case/clip and Maine calendar

 

I've seen a few accounts of people mentioning they were quickly filling up the internal memory and it sounded like it was the SE version that were being used. But as the unit will take SDHC cards up to 32 gb, you could probably add on more than the 8 gb internal of the SE for much cheaper.

That's all it is. For me, I go with the maxim, by the most you can afford now so you don't have regrets later. I made a promise to my wife 6 years ago the MeriPlat would last me at least 4 years and I went above and beyond that level so she was OK with me to do this upgrade. The proviso is, this will have to last me at least 4 years again. By that time, I should be ready for another quantum leap in an upgrade.

 

Oh and the belt clip and calendar are being sent to the pre-order customers also

 

So, tell me true, Is there anything wrong with the one for $289? Every thing is the same as the $399 one as far as you can tell BUT something about the internal memory? I would really like to get a better GPSr and was hoping this could be the one. I would like to get the most for my bucks and just because it is cheaper priced, could it be misleading?

HOW does this one compare to the Garmin that everybody seems to like.

AND, Yes, I plan on getting a little more electronic savvy

THANK YOU - in advance

[+TotemLake]

Amazon has the PN-40 for $289 with free shipping! That's over $100 off! I wanted the SE, but man , that price is hard to pass up. Is there any difference with the SE besides the extra internal memory?

 

It's just the extra internal memory, although through Christmas DeLorme is shipping them with a belt case/clip and Maine calendar

 

I've seen a few accounts of people mentioning they were quickly filling up the internal memory and it sounded like it was the SE version that were being used. But as the unit will take SDHC cards up to 32 gb, you could probably add on more than the 8 gb internal of the SE for much cheaper.

That's all it is. For me, I go with the maxim, by the most you can afford now so you don't have regrets later. I made a promise to my wife 6 years ago the MeriPlat would last me at least 4 years and I went above and beyond that level so she was OK with me to do this upgrade. The proviso is, this will have to last me at least 4 years again. By that time, I should be ready for another quantum leap in an upgrade.

 

Oh and the belt clip and calendar are being sent to the pre-order customers also

 

So, tell me true, Is there anything wrong with the one for $289? Every thing is the same as the $399 one as far as you can tell BUT something about the internal memory? I would really like to get a better GPSr and was hoping this could be the one. I would like to get the most for my bucks and just because it is cheaper priced, could it be misleading?

HOW does this one compare to the Garmin that everybody seems to like.

AND, Yes, I plan on getting a little more electronic savvy

THANK YOU - in advance

8GB vs 1GB memory is the difference. The basemap and firmware has 500MB reserved on both. So the smaller internal memory is a usable 500MB. I'm not at home right now so I can't tell you how much square mileage aerial shots will fit, but I have most of Seattle, West Seattle, going across the lake to some of Bellevue loaded at around 250MB (I think). The precuts for the entire state (off the DVD set that preloads to the GPS) takes another big chunk, but I can't recall the size right now.

 

So, if you're going to buy the one with 1GB internal memory, be sure to augment it with an SDHC card of 2 or more GB so you have space to put your maps and downloads. I'm told the speed difference is so negligable you won't know the difference. But for all intents and purposes, your first downloads will probably be small enough to play with the internal memory.

[+intolerable]

So, tell me true, Is there anything wrong with the one for $289? Every thing is the same as the $399 one as far as you can tell BUT something about the internal memory? I would really like to get a better GPSr and was hoping this could be the one. I would like to get the most for my bucks and just because it is cheaper priced, could it be misleading?

HOW does this one compare to the Garmin that everybody seems to like.

AND, Yes, I plan on getting a little more electronic savvy

THANK YOU - in advance

 

Actually, the Amazon $289 price is for the $399 model listed at DeLorme. The 'SE' unit (which has the additional internal memory) is only sold at the DeLorme site and runs for $499.95 and $539.95, depending on the bundle. So, the $289 price is a considerable savings when looking at the list price. There's nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't have the extra internal memory and you'll likely want to buy additional memory in the form of a SD/SDHC card. You can buy yourself a 32 gb SDHC card and buy me a whole bunch of coffee for the difference between the $298 price PN-40 and the $500 PN-40 SE.

 

Whether this is the right unit for you or not really is up to you though and I can't recommend enough going down to a local REI/whatever and asking to play around with it. The aerial imagery is *awesome* and the recent screenshots of geocaching features (correct icons for different cache types and such ) just blow me away. But at the same time, the fonts seemed pretty small on the unit and if that's something that really bugs you, that might be a deal breaker. The screen is pretty small on the PN-40, compared to newer Garmin's, but if you can deal with that, what's on that screen might be more than worth the trade off. Also, if you use Garmin now, you'll have to learn some new stuff (example, no GSAK support for DeLorme). But it doesn't look too painful

 

As for how if performs accuracy wise... I've read nothing but very positive reviews.

 

Only you can really decide that for sort of stuff for yourself And honestly, I don't have one and only played with one in store for like an hour or something...

 

That said, I know that I would gladly give the right arm of a number of people other than myself to have one right now

[+coreynjoey]

Are there any other Oregon dates? I heard there was a Tualatin visit, but I've heard nothing about Hillsboro yet. I'd love to check out the new GPS!

I think the roadshow is over. It was a marketing blitz to get the word out and show commitment to the product line. I could be wrong.

 

 

When we saw Brian at the Cabelas in Lacey, he said he'd be back in a few weeks to do more training for the store employees. I don't know if they'll be doing another public 'Road Show' or not though.

[Moun10Bike]

I've posted my initial review of the DeLorme PN-40 in my blog:

 

First Impressions of the DeLorme PN-40

Edited December 12, 2008 by Moun10Bike

[+TotemLake]

That's about as balanced a review I could ask for. Nothing to add here except your site has a nice new look to it.

[+fairyhoney]

I've posted my initial review of the DeLorme PN-40 in my blog:

 

First Impressions of the DeLorme PN-40

 

So, it isn't as great as we all thought it was?

[+TotemLake]

I've posted my initial review of the DeLorme PN-40 in my blog:

 

First Impressions of the DeLorme PN-40

 

So, it isn't as great as we all thought it was?

It is by far better than I thought it was.

 

The problem, as M10B noted, is he is a Garmin man and used to the Garmin way. So you do have to read the review understanding that slant.

 

There is a big learning curve for the software. I think the software interface is somewhat lacking in conventional wisdom, but then again, they don't have to pay royalties for it either. Once you get used to it, it isn't that difficult to navigate.

 

As for disk space; with disk space so abundant and cheap, is this a really big issue? Probably not. It was just worth noting.

[+fairyhoney]

Thank you , TotemLake. I did go see the unit at the REI in Tacoma when the guy was there. I must say that I was impressed. I have tried my son's Magellan and don't like it. I have seen some using the Garmin60csx and That was nice. But here is my take . . . Since I have the Garmin yellow cheapie , I wanted to upgrade without going through all the middle stuff. You see, besides being electronic incompetent and illiterate, It seems the only way I totally learn how to do and operate things is to read but ALSO need to be shown. Anyways, What I've seen and read, This PN-40 sounds like the unit that would foot the bill since no matter what I get, I'd Still have to learn how to work it!

[+fairyhoney]

Thank you , TotemLake. I did go see the unit at the REI in Tacoma when the guy was there. I must say that I was impressed. I have tried my son's Magellan and don't like it. I have seen some using the Garmin60csx and That was nice. But here is my take . . . Since I have the Garmin yellow cheapie , I wanted to upgrade without going through all the middle stuff. You see, besides being electronic incompetent and illiterate, It seems the only way I totally learn how to do and operate things is to read but ALSO need to be shown. Anyways, What I've seen and read, This PN-40 sounds like the unit that would foot the bill since no matter what I get, I'd Still have to learn how to work it!

 

YES, I am open to anything.

[jholly]

Thank you , TotemLake. I did go see the unit at the REI in Tacoma when the guy was there. I must say that I was impressed. I have tried my son's Magellan and don't like it. I have seen some using the Garmin60csx and That was nice. But here is my take . . . Since I have the Garmin yellow cheapie , I wanted to upgrade without going through all the middle stuff. You see, besides being electronic incompetent and illiterate, It seems the only way I totally learn how to do and operate things is to read but ALSO need to be shown. Anyways, What I've seen and read, This PN-40 sounds like the unit that would foot the bill since no matter what I get, I'd Still have to learn how to work it!

 

YES, I am open to anything.

 

I have a garmin 76CSX, the marine brother of the 60CSx. Mostly because I like the button placement better than on the 60. This is probably less of a cultural shock than the PN-40. Pretty much what you do with the yellow one you do close to the same with the 60/76. And no middle stuff, pretty much how your doing it now, but with usb instead of serial.

 

As for Moun10Bikes review, I thought it was pretty good. I did not take it as a garmin slant, but rather DeLorme has not moved to a more industry standard interface (windows menus) but rather used a different interface and have complementary functions spread over several tabs. This can be confusing. It also sounds like loading maps is a bit more painful. For me the big deal breaker is that everything has to go through Topo 7 to get it on the unit. If DeLorme ever fixes it so I can download from a cache page, or more ideally from GSAK then I just might take a serous look because it sounds like a really nice unit.

 

Jim

[+TotemLake]

Thank you , TotemLake. I did go see the unit at the REI in Tacoma when the guy was there. I must say that I was impressed. I have tried my son's Magellan and don't like it. I have seen some using the Garmin60csx and That was nice. But here is my take . . . Since I have the Garmin yellow cheapie , I wanted to upgrade without going through all the middle stuff. You see, besides being electronic incompetent and illiterate, It seems the only way I totally learn how to do and operate things is to read but ALSO need to be shown. Anyways, What I've seen and read, This PN-40 sounds like the unit that would foot the bill since no matter what I get, I'd Still have to learn how to work it!

 

YES, I am open to anything.

 

I have a garmin 76CSX, the marine brother of the 60CSx. Mostly because I like the button placement better than on the 60. This is probably less of a cultural shock than the PN-40. Pretty much what you do with the yellow one you do close to the same with the 60/76. And no middle stuff, pretty much how your doing it now, but with usb instead of serial.

 

As for Moun10Bikes review, I thought it was pretty good. I did not take it as a garmin slant, but rather DeLorme has not moved to a more industry standard interface (windows menus) but rather used a different interface and have complementary functions spread over several tabs. This can be confusing. It also sounds like loading maps is a bit more painful. For me the big deal breaker is that everything has to go through Topo 7 to get it on the unit. If DeLorme ever fixes it so I can download from a cache page, or more ideally from GSAK then I just might take a serous look because it sounds like a really nice unit.

 

Jim

There are some things that can be improved upon to fit everybody's needs, desires or wants.

 

Let's pick this apart a little bit.

 

Tell me how you feel about the transition made from Office 2003 to 2007.

Did anybody use Lotus Notes then make the transition to MS Office?

 

I've seen these transitions and I've heard the same complaint that's put forth here.

It's confusing.

It isn't intuitive.

It isn't industry standard.

 

What it is, is about interface differences. So yes, after using Garmin for several years, the review has a Garmin slant. That's not being unfair to M10B, afterall, he did draw conclusions with comparisons.

 

For a second generation GPS, this gadget is outstanding.

 

Garmin still refuses to go to a tri-axial compass and I do have a message from them this past summer that confirms they had no plans back then for one. Delorme picked up on this complaint Garmin users have and picked upon the one advancement Magellan users enjoyed and built it in.

 

The backlight issue I noticed right away, and almost as quickly dismissed it as non-essential. How many of you still rely on your backlight to see the buttons? The layout is simple enough to have it memorized in a day. On my Magellan, I never noticed when it stopped working. On this GPS, it's simply a learning curve to get over it and how many of us are caching without a light at night anyway? I did get a chance to do a thin glove test and I'm a little disappointed in the spacing of the buttons... for now. The tactile feedback will probably help here.

 

Apparent duplicity in maps... They took two existing products and made a transition model to fit both needs instead of revamping the flagship software to fit a recreational gadget. How many times have we seen that happen? Third party products are out there doing translations right now for GPS users, this is just an extension of what is already accepted as a doable action. Disk space is cheap and abundant mainly because of other bloated software needs.

 

Geocaching functionality - being worked on

Customizing draw layers.... not sure what that's about and will need expansion to comment on.

 

Map transfers are time consuming. I used the precuts on the DVDs to get the entire state on. Aerial and satellite imagery is huge. Initially, this isn't going to be a spur of the moment transfer. It takes a day or two of advanced planning, downloading, cutting and transfering if you want to have this in place on the GPS for the area you're going to cache in.

 

The upside is, once it is in place, it's yours. The download is eliminated on subsequent cuts. Depending on your unit or memory card, the transfers are eliminated on subsequent jaunts. If you're going to be card based, do it by region. Once you download to the card, swap out the card if you have to. On the 8GB unit, all of my data is checked on so no matter where I drive, the imagery displays automatically as needed with no delays. I do subsequent cuts to adjacent areas to add to the maps. The imagery is as of 2006. So as it gets updated, this will be the only time I can see the need for updated downloads.

 

I hope this helps.

Edited December 13, 2008 by TotemLake

[jholly]

Far as the transition to Office 2007, it has not been a problem. I still use Office 2000.

 

The triaxial compass is very appealing.

 

Large map transfers on a garmin can be time consuming, best done overnight. But the M10B comment seemed like there were several steps involved while with garmin it is select the segments, hit the go button and go to bed.

 

Like I said the real deal breaker is the lack of transfers to the unit other than through Topo 7. Maps aside, once they get to where you can transfer to the unit via GPSbabel (i.e., GSAK, and others) then I think it will need some serious looking at. It will also probably help the market share. The Colorado and Oregon have not excited me, and until something better comes along I'll probably use the 76 for sometime.

 

Jim

[+intolerable]

What it is, is about interface differences. So yes, after using Garmin for several years, the review has a Garmin slant. That's not being unfair to M10B, afterall, he did draw conclusions with comparisons.

 

Honestly, for me, the issue is not related to having used Garmin for years, more having used Windows for years. It's not that the UI is not like Garmin's, but rather the UI is not like the vast majority of Windows programs. I feel one could just as easily compare the UI issues with Office, Photoshop or Firefox as one could with Mapsource.

 

Map transfers are time consuming. I used the precuts on the DVDs to get the entire state on. Aerial and satellite imagery is huge. Initially, this isn't going to be a spur of the moment transfer. It takes a day or two of advanced planning, downloading, cutting and transfering if you want to have this in place on the GPS for the area you're going to cache in.

 

When retrieving data, is there an expected ETA for when it will be available to download after requesting?

 

I'm just curious if it's reasonable under normal circumstances to be able to expect to download aerial/sat imagery for specific areas for short notice for outings or while traveling across country on a day to day basis and wondering, and would really appreciate hearing, what your experience has been so far in this regard.

 

Appreciate your views on this stuff

[+TotemLake]

When retrieving data, is there an expected ETA for when it will be available to download after requesting?

 

I'm just curious if it's reasonable under normal circumstances to be able to expect to download aerial/sat imagery for specific areas for short notice for outings or while traveling across country on a day to day basis and wondering, and would really appreciate hearing, what your experience has been so far in this regard.

 

Appreciate your views on this stuff

I'm not going to comment on some of the other points made after my post becasue they are in one sense valid and we could debate all night over the use of menus versus tabs or floating toolbars. It's an interface issue which was the point I drove across. Simple as it gets. Yes, there are several steps to setting up anything to the GPS. That is a pitfall for some. No debate there. This GPS is not for everybody. If you're looking for ease, look someplace else. Delorme isn't quite there yet.

 

As far as downloads are concerned; Within 10 minutes of setting up 4 maximum (100 tiles each) regions (encompassing Seattle metropolitan including from some of West Seattle to just east of 405 in Bellevue some of Bellevue, Seattle from from north of Newport, to the north end of Lake Washington and across again to Kirkland/Juanita) of aerial imagery, The downloads were noted as ready in the software. Another 5 minutes and I had an email confirmation, but I was already downloading. Download speeds were comparitively slow due to at least one condition: Lots of new users. I expect this slowdown again at Christmas time. I had read there was an apparent issue in their server farm earlier in the year but this looks like it was resolved. Be aware, the email confirmations may end up in your spam folder.

 

The time to download one maximum sized imagery region can take 20 minutes or longer. After the download, you have to cut this to exchange to your GPS. Add another 10-20 minutes. Then transfer it to the GPS. Add another 10-90 minutes dependant upon the size and on the method you choose to transfer. Again, this is not a spur of the moment thing.

 

If you just want to use the maps, use the DVDs for the GPS itself and do a direct transfer to the GPS. Washington state is divided into 3 regions and it took 15 minutes to transfer all of them.

 

My chief complaint on the software is the use of RAM. Almost 1GB.

 

I think I just found a bug where if a USGS topo map is downloaded to Topo7, I can no longer view the aerial imagery on the map. I'm going to do a little research on it.

 

=-=-Crossed out a comment I made cuz I misread a post and I did comment on the points.-=-=

Edited December 13, 2008 by TotemLake

[Moun10Bike]

I'm sure that my review has a slant toward Garmin simply due to the fact that I've been using Garmin for so long. However, I will argue against the assertion that my comments about the ease of use/interface are because of that bias. I have felt that way about DeLorme's products for years, long before there was much functionality to Mapsource (i.e. no maps on GPS, and other programs used for upload/download).

 

Also, let me emphasize that I'm talking about the Topo 7 interface here, not the PN-40. So far, the GPS has seemed quite intuitive to me. DeLorme has so broken with standard Windows conventions on their software that it is going to take some getting used to for anyone.

[+Maingray]

Exactly same as you Moun10Bike. Very "normal" GPS interface. Topo7 is a bear to use. This machne will fall down for a lot of people with any reliance on topo7. I disagree on one point..ruggedness. It felt definitely toy-like to me. I recommended the PN-20 unit for stability before, but can't recommend this one so far...PN-40 forums have had 3 people with "dead on arrival" units over last two days, units suddenly dying and multitudes of USB connection issues...but the delorme tech support will sort them out quickly, I'm sure...top notch marks for the tech support. Out of me and 4 caching buddies who bought the unit, three have returned and two have kept.

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16566

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16548

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16516

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16554

 

My review here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...027&st=150#

 

I'm back to a Garmin, until I get a job with more time off to download maps. I'll re-look at the unit after the geocaching mode is more mature

Edited December 13, 2008 by Maingray

[+TotemLake]

I'm sure that my review has a slant toward Garmin simply due to the fact that I've been using Garmin for so long. However, I will argue against the assertion that my comments about the ease of use/interface are because of that bias. I have felt that way about DeLorme's products for years, long before there was much functionality to Mapsource (i.e. no maps on GPS, and other programs used for upload/download).

 

Also, let me emphasize that I'm talking about the Topo 7 interface here, not the PN-40. So far, the GPS has seemed quite intuitive to me. DeLorme has so broken with standard Windows conventions on their software that it is going to take some getting used to for anyone.

I'll go along with that. I think the interface is outdated as it has been their standard since at least V2 on Topo USA. I never argued or asserted it isn't difficult to learn. I have stated once you have it figured out, it's easy to navigate. Lotus Notes is the same way. Offcie 2007 is the same way. This is the intended context of my statement.

 

That being said, I found how to turn the aerial imagery back on. When it happens, go to the Map Files expand the list and double click on the one of interest.

[Moun10Bike]

Garmin still refuses to go to a tri-axial compass and I do have a message from them this past summer that confirms they had no plans back then for one. Delorme picked up on this complaint Garmin users have and picked upon the one advancement Magellan users enjoyed and built it in.

 

I completely agree and I really don't understand Garmin's stance on this. I should have mentioned this in my blog post, but as I emphasized that was initial impressions without much time with the unit out in the wild.

 

The backlight issue I noticed right away, and almost as quickly dismissed it as non-essential. How many of you still rely on your backlight to see the buttons? The layout is simple enough to have it memorized in a day. On my Magellan, I never noticed when it stopped working. On this GPS, it's simply a learning curve to get over it and how many of us are caching without a light at night anyway?

 

I made the comment I did because I was driving home from work in the dark with an unfamiliar unit and had difficulty determining what button I needed. But of course, things like this are miniscule and become nonfactors as we learn a piece of equipment.

 

Apparent duplicity in maps... They took two existing products and made a transition model to fit both needs instead of revamping the flagship software to fit a recreational gadget. How many times have we seen that happen?

 

On the other hand, Garmin has used an application (Mapsource) designed specifically for upload/download to the GPS. It thus seems to handle this functionality in a better, or at least more streamlined manner, than DeLorme's product(s). I think that's a big win in the long run when talking about consumer electronics.

 

Customizing draw layers.... not sure what that's about and will need expansion to comment on.

 

To illustrate, try importing a batch of track files. Oops, you forgot to change your line drawing style to, say, red dotted lines and so they import as blue solid lines. Okay, just select and change the formatting, right? Nope, can't do it. You can't even do one at a time. Not even if you copy them to another layer and/or layer type.

 

This is a big issue for me since I am trying to get Northwest Trails converted to use with DeLorme, and I'm running into issues that it appears will be difficult (or at least time-consuming) to overcome.

[+TotemLake]

Garmin still refuses to go to a tri-axial compass and I do have a message from them this past summer that confirms they had no plans back then for one. Delorme picked up on this complaint Garmin users have and picked upon the one advancement Magellan users enjoyed and built it in.

 

I completely agree and I really don't understand Garmin's stance on this. I should have mentioned this in my blog post, but as I emphasized that was initial impressions without much time with the unit out in the wild.

 

The backlight issue I noticed right away, and almost as quickly dismissed it as non-essential. How many of you still rely on your backlight to see the buttons? The layout is simple enough to have it memorized in a day. On my Magellan, I never noticed when it stopped working. On this GPS, it's simply a learning curve to get over it and how many of us are caching without a light at night anyway?

 

I made the comment I did because I was driving home from work in the dark with an unfamiliar unit and had difficulty determining what button I needed. But of course, things like this are miniscule and become nonfactors as we learn a piece of equipment.

 

Apparent duplicity in maps... They took two existing products and made a transition model to fit both needs instead of revamping the flagship software to fit a recreational gadget. How many times have we seen that happen?

 

On the other hand, Garmin has used an application (Mapsource) designed specifically for upload/download to the GPS. It thus seems to handle this functionality in a better, or at least more streamlined manner, than DeLorme's product(s). I think that's a big win in the long run when talking about consumer electronics.

 

Customizing draw layers.... not sure what that's about and will need expansion to comment on.

 

To illustrate, try importing a batch of track files. Oops, you forgot to change your line drawing style to, say, red dotted lines and so they import as blue solid lines. Okay, just select and change the formatting, right? Nope, can't do it. You can't even do one at a time. Not even if you copy them to another layer and/or layer type.

 

This is a big issue for me since I am trying to get Northwest Trails converted to use with DeLorme, and I'm running into issues that it appears will be difficult (or at least time-consuming) to overcome.

I completely agree with Garmin's streamlined process. I'm stressing the last part only because this was my world a couple of short weeks ago when importing/exporting the trails.

 

Adding here: I got to thinking about the selective editing of trails. This is another not so intuitive step. You need to be sure your layer is selected and I would go as far to say as having the Active radial button selected. Then you can use the draw arrow to select the individual track and change it. That's not satisfactory when there are a lot of trails to change.

Edited December 13, 2008 by TotemLake

[Moun10Bike]

One aspect of DeLorme that I have to stress as a huge positive factor is their awesome customer service! Garmin's service has always been top-notch for me, but Chip from DeLorme has already made contact with me regarding the issues I raised in my blog post!

[+TotemLake]

One aspect of DeLorme that I have to stress as a huge positive factor is their awesome customer service! Garmin's service has always been top-notch for me, but Chip from DeLorme has already made contact with me regarding the issues I raised in my blog post!

Very cool.