+Dnalsi Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 In my limited finds (39) of trackables, I've found some with items attached by cachers OTHER than the trackable's owner. Sometimes it is a cache sig card placed in the baggie holding/protecting the trackable item. Yesterday, I picked up a geocoin that originated in the Netherlands. This coin had 2 other items firmly attached directly to the coin, that differed from the coins release photo. One was a cache card zip tied to the coin from a cacher in MI claiming 9400 TB's that have travelled over 11 million miles. The other was a metal bear figurine attached onto the key ring. I emailed the coins owner, explaining what I found. The owner asked me to remove the extra items, which I did. I'm just wondering: 1) How common it is for cachers to attach items to trackables that do not belong to them? 2) Is this practice accepted by the geocaching community? I did try a search for this with no luck. I kept finding suggested ways to attach things to your own trackable. I'm guessing most cachers don't even notice. Quote Link to comment
ELTADA Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I haven't come across that myself to be honest. One TB tag, one object...that's it. If it was my geocoin, I would (I think) be a bit miffed about someone adding something. I give my coins missions that mean something to me and if another cacher altered it in some way, I don't think I would like it. ESPECIALLY if they defaced my coin to do it (was there already a hole in the coin? i would assume so). I think the biggest annoyance to me would be if these enthusiastic cachers (this is what they are, I'm sure...) didn't ASK me as the owner of the TB. (if the mission included adding an item, obviously this is a non-issue but again, I assume this wasn't the case otherwise you wouldn't have emailed the owner). My two cents... Quote Link to comment
+tadpole379 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have seen people add a laminated card of the traveler's name and mission, which I think is a good thing if the original mission sheet was missing or in need of repair. I have not seen any TBs or coins with other things attached to them unless it was the goal of the TB to pick up certain items while it travels. I don't think other people should attach their "calling card" or other items to a TB they find without the owner's permission because it doesn't belong to them. If that person wants to set something travelling they should buy their own TB tag. Quote Link to comment
+Dnalsi Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 In this case, the coin itself was not directly damaged to make the attachment. However, the metal bear figure that some cacher added and threaded onto the keyring has certainly contributed to the scratching and wear on the coin. Metal on metal wear. The coin's mission is simply to travel. Nothing stated about adding items. The owner wanted them removed. I believe the sig card (attached by the MI cacher) is trying to somehow claim credit for miles travelled on trackable items owned by others. I get the impression that he/she attaches (with a zip tie) these sig cards to every trackable they find, thus the claim of 9400 TB's with over 11 million miles. Quote Link to comment
ELTADA Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I get the impression that he/she attaches (with a zip tie) these sig cards to every trackable they find, thus the claim of 9400 TB's with over 11 million miles. Ok, I didn't read this correctly the first time...um, ya, if I was the owner I would NOT be happy! That's rude! IMO! Quote Link to comment
+Fiery Searcher Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have seen small, business-card-like things attached to TBs before. One in particular was attached because the TB had made it to a TB hotel and the owners of that cache (presumably) put their card verifying the TB's "stay" at the hotel. I have never thought to contact the owners of the TBs, because I have only seen paper attachments that don't appear to interfere with the TB's travels or quality. Also, I assumed that the owners were mainly happy that their bugs were still moving! I believe you did the honorable thing: when in doubt, contact the owner. This seems to be the message oft repeated here in the forums, both geocoin and TB. Which reminds me, I have two that are more than two weeks with me now! Off to send emails to the owners... Quote Link to comment
+Sparticus06 Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) I have seen two TBs that get added things as it travels. One was a keychain TB that as it traveled, more keychains got added to it. The second is my Pathtag TB in which it is traveling and as it does, I asked that more Pathtags be added to the chain. But those 2 travelers ASKED to have more added to it. So, to answer, no, it is not right to add to a coin or TB as it travels, unless it states to do so in its mission. Edited October 31, 2008 by Sparticus06 Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 In this case, the coin itself was not directly damaged to make the attachment. However, the metal bear figure that some cacher added and threaded onto the keyring has certainly contributed to the scratching and wear on the coin. Metal on metal wear. The coin's mission is simply to travel. Nothing stated about adding items. The owner wanted them removed. I believe the sig card (attached by the MI cacher) is trying to somehow claim credit for miles travelled on trackable items owned by others. I get the impression that he/she attaches (with a zip tie) these sig cards to every trackable they find, thus the claim of 9400 TB's with over 11 million miles. Why did the tag on someone else's coin/TB bother you so much you felt the need to raise a stink?? Not being rude here, but was it really a concern of yours? The cacher you speak of is the #1 TB/coin mover in the world. Their cards are placed on every TB/coin they move and usually it's accepted by the owners of the TB/coins because they are more or less a badge of honor for many to have MaxB's tag added. It's not anything more than a laminated tag put on the chain already furnished, or the tag is placed in the baggie. Many times, the tag is also accompanied by a laminated sheet with the mission, states/countries traveled etc, this is done caringly by MazB or even the Geopigs who also tag the TBs/coins they move! I see no harm in these, it's as much like adding your name to the log at a cache. Your views may differ. EVERY coin I released to be involved in my Todie's Wild Ride cointest will have the Geopigs' tag added, I pass every coin to them personally first! They are good friends of mine as are MaxB on the River! I would NOT want those tags removed even if you contact the owner (who is part of the cointest). If it's a Todie's Wild Ride coin, please leave any tags alone! These coins may also be passed to MaxB, so please leave the tags there on my contest coins! Look at the tags like this, they are nothing more than a "stamp in the passport of the traveler". They aren't intended to hurt the traveler and are put on more to be a friendly "hello" than anything else! The tags aren't harmful, but some owners do get upset, let them deal with the tags if they feel they must! Do I support the adding of tags??? Well, it wouldn't and hasn't ever bothered me and I have several travelers. I see it as a badge of honor that my traveler was moved by one of these prolific movers!! Your mileage may vary! The tag stating 9400 travelers moved and that mileage isn't a boast (and it's an older tag because that number is very low from the tally now), they truly have moved them that far and that many! These people pick up coins/TBs and caringly pamper them (giving them new baggies or even a baggie if the traveler hasn't one, giving them travel papers and making sure they go in the intended direction as per the mission). MaxB often goes out of their way to help a traveler reach a goal, I've seen them personally hand off coins/TBs to people that the mission stated it wanted to get to! MaxB and The Geopigs are very happy to help a traveler, I've seen both go through airports and such with bags and bags of travelers, helping move them in the right direction or simply moving them so the owners see them move, and they ALWAYS take pics and add them to the logs! If you happen to go to any of the MEGA events held near here (MI), you'll notice both the Geopigs and MaxB work the TB tables and also often give instructional talks on TB movement and ettiquette! Quote Link to comment
ELTADA Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Why did the tag on someone else's coin/TB bother you so much you felt the need to raise a stink?? Not being rude here, but was it really a concern of yours? I don't want to speak for Dnalsi but I think it was a post to determine what is and what isn't widely acceptable on this topic. I didn't perceive it as "stirring the pot". I think of my TB as an object I own that is out completing a specific task. Aside from the value, it's like a car. It's "mission" is to get me from A to B. If someone put a sticker on my car that said - Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I found your car in this parking lot and checked it to make sure it was safe and leave you directions on where you are going next (oh and by the way, I have found 4231 other cars just like yours!)...well, I wouldn't like it. No matter how helpful this person was trying to be or how impressive their statistic was. Ok, maybe that is a bit of a silly analogy but just because you are well regarded in the geocaching community doesn't mean you can alter people's bugs. I don't think you would be too happy if someone added stuff to any of the Wild Ride TB's without asking would you? These are out on very specific missions and to take away from that by adding a different message (no matter how simple) is just not right in my eyes. Obviously everyone has a different opinion and your perspective is a bit different. Perhaps if I knew GeoPigs and MaxB, I might have different thoughts as well. But I think the fact that you and I have a totally different opinion just gives validity to the OP's post. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Why did the tag on someone else's coin/TB bother you so much you felt the need to raise a stink?? Not being rude here, but was it really a concern of yours? I don't want to speak for Dnalsi but I think it was a post to determine what is and what isn't widely acceptable on this topic. I didn't perceive it as "stirring the pot". I think of my TB as an object I own that is out completing a specific task. Aside from the value, it's like a car. It's "mission" is to get me from A to B. If someone put a sticker on my car that said - Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I found your car in this parking lot and checked it to make sure it was safe and leave you directions on where you are going next (oh and by the way, I have found 4231 other cars just like yours!)...well, I wouldn't like it. No matter how helpful this person was trying to be or how impressive their statistic was. Ok, maybe that is a bit of a silly analogy but just because you are well regarded in the geocaching community doesn't mean you can alter people's bugs. I don't think you would be too happy if someone added stuff to any of the Wild Ride TB's without asking would you? These are out on very specific missions and to take away from that by adding a different message (no matter how simple) is just not right in my eyes. Obviously everyone has a different opinion and your perspective is a bit different. Perhaps if I knew GeoPigs and MaxB, I might have different thoughts as well. But I think the fact that you and I have a totally different opinion just gives validity to the OP's post. When you take your car in for maintenance, they often put a tag on the keyring, when changing the oil, there's often a sticker added to the window. It happens! When you travel by air, the airport adds tags to your luggage, when visiting foriegn countries, your passport is stamped...it happens! Can you tell me how adding a laminated tag alters the traveler in any way?? Adding tags to the Todie's Wild Ride is not only accepted by me, it's welcomed. If you had the time to pick up the coin and place a tag, you very likely read the mission, looked at the traveelr and are caring enough to move the traveler on instead of forgetting to or even keeping it! They hardly detract from the tb/coin's missions, they let people know that traveler is being watched (yes, MaxB and Geopigs usually put every traveler they move on their watchlists). Remember, they don't only add their tag, they also put in laminated cards with the mission, picture of traveler etc (just like the coin/TB's home page), they add a laminated card reflecting the places the traveler went to etc....it's a work of love more than anything else, these people are passionate about moving TBs! I'm confident that, if you are worried about it, you could contact MaxB or The Geopigs personally and ask that they not put in the oving care when moving your TB!! They are more than happy to do this or not as instructed! As I said, your mileage may vary! Quote Link to comment
+sweetlife Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 In this case, the coin itself was not directly damaged to make the attachment. However, the metal bear figure that some cacher added and threaded onto the keyring has certainly contributed to the scratching and wear on the coin. Metal on metal wear. The coin's mission is simply to travel. Nothing stated about adding items. The owner wanted them removed. I believe the sig card (attached by the MI cacher) is trying to somehow claim credit for miles travelled on trackable items owned by others. I get the impression that he/she attaches (with a zip tie) these sig cards to every trackable they find, thus the claim of 9400 TB's with over 11 million miles. Why did the tag on someone else's coin/TB bother you so much you felt the need to raise a stink?? Not being rude here, but was it really a concern of yours? The cacher you speak of is the #1 TB/coin mover in the world. Their cards are placed on every TB/coin they move and usually it's accepted by the owners of the TB/coins because they are more or less a badge of honor for many to have MaxB's tag added. It's not anything more than a laminated tag put on the chain already furnished, or the tag is placed in the baggie. Many times, the tag is also accompanied by a laminated sheet with the mission, states/countries traveled etc, this is done caringly by MazB or even the Geopigs who also tag the TBs/coins they move! I see no harm in these, it's as much like adding your name to the log at a cache. Your views may differ. EVERY coin I released to be involved in my Todie's Wild Ride cointest will have the Geopigs' tag added, I pass every coin to them personally first! They are good friends of mine as are MaxB on the River! I would NOT want those tags removed even if you contact the owner (who is part of the cointest). If it's a Todie's Wild Ride coin, please leave any tags alone! These coins may also be passed to MaxB, so please leave the tags there on my contest coins! Look at the tags like this, they are nothing more than a "stamp in the passport of the traveler". They aren't intended to hurt the traveler and are put on more to be a friendly "hello" than anything else! The tags aren't harmful, but some owners do get upset, let them deal with the tags if they feel they must! Do I support the adding of tags??? Well, it wouldn't and hasn't ever bothered me and I have several travelers. I see it as a badge of honor that my traveler was moved by one of these prolific movers!! Your mileage may vary! The tag stating 9400 travelers moved and that mileage isn't a boast (and it's an older tag because that number is very low from the tally now), they truly have moved them that far and that many! These people pick up coins/TBs and caringly pamper them (giving them new baggies or even a baggie if the traveler hasn't one, giving them travel papers and making sure they go in the intended direction as per the mission). MaxB often goes out of their way to help a traveler reach a goal, I've seen them personally hand off coins/TBs to people that the mission stated it wanted to get to! MaxB and The Geopigs are very happy to help a traveler, I've seen both go through airports and such with bags and bags of travelers, helping move them in the right direction or simply moving them so the owners see them move, and they ALWAYS take pics and add them to the logs! If you happen to go to any of the MEGA events held near here (MI), you'll notice both the Geopigs and MaxB work the TB tables and also often give instructional talks on TB movement and ettiquette! Very Well said Roddy, these people you mentioned are wonderful people and they move peoples trackables in the direction that the goals state. They move travel bug/ geocoins many miles. They do a wondeful job, we be honored to have them move a trackable of our anyday. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I might add that most of the coins in the TWR cointest have been moved by Geopigs to MaxB to a specific goal or person. One person wanted their coin to go to Minnistoa, it was there after the second move, one wanted theirs to go to Europe, it'll be there shortly! Some coins have already hit the west coast just days after getting into circulation! These people move your travelers with care and love, they appreciate you putting them out! Sorry if I am a bit harsh with my posts... The Geopigs have also selected (randomly) a few of the contest coins to travel with them to Turkey, Crete etc when they go on their cruise next month...all those pictures, all that extra work....but the owners usually appreciate and enjoy the travels! Quote Link to comment
+ThirstyMick Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 In this case, the coin itself was not directly damaged to make the attachment. However, the metal bear figure that some cacher added and threaded onto the keyring has certainly contributed to the scratching and wear on the coin. Metal on metal wear. The coin's mission is simply to travel. Nothing stated about adding items. The owner wanted them removed. I believe the sig card (attached by the MI cacher) is trying to somehow claim credit for miles travelled on trackable items owned by others. I get the impression that he/she attaches (with a zip tie) these sig cards to every trackable they find, thus the claim of 9400 TB's with over 11 million miles. Why did the tag on someone else's coin/TB bother you so much you felt the need to raise a stink?? Not being rude here, but was it really a concern of yours? The cacher you speak of is the #1 TB/coin mover in the world. Their cards are placed on every TB/coin they move and usually it's accepted by the owners of the TB/coins because they are more or less a badge of honor for many to have MaxB's tag added. It's not anything more than a laminated tag put on the chain already furnished, or the tag is placed in the baggie. Many times, the tag is also accompanied by a laminated sheet with the mission, states/countries traveled etc, this is done caringly by MazB or even the Geopigs who also tag the TBs/coins they move! I see no harm in these, it's as much like adding your name to the log at a cache. Your views may differ. EVERY coin I released to be involved in my Todie's Wild Ride cointest will have the Geopigs' tag added, I pass every coin to them personally first! They are good friends of mine as are MaxB on the River! I would NOT want those tags removed even if you contact the owner (who is part of the cointest). If it's a Todie's Wild Ride coin, please leave any tags alone! These coins may also be passed to MaxB, so please leave the tags there on my contest coins! Look at the tags like this, they are nothing more than a "stamp in the passport of the traveler". They aren't intended to hurt the traveler and are put on more to be a friendly "hello" than anything else! The tags aren't harmful, but some owners do get upset, let them deal with the tags if they feel they must! Do I support the adding of tags??? Well, it wouldn't and hasn't ever bothered me and I have several travelers. I see it as a badge of honor that my traveler was moved by one of these prolific movers!! Your mileage may vary! The tag stating 9400 travelers moved and that mileage isn't a boast (and it's an older tag because that number is very low from the tally now), they truly have moved them that far and that many! These people pick up coins/TBs and caringly pamper them (giving them new baggies or even a baggie if the traveler hasn't one, giving them travel papers and making sure they go in the intended direction as per the mission). MaxB often goes out of their way to help a traveler reach a goal, I've seen them personally hand off coins/TBs to people that the mission stated it wanted to get to! MaxB and The Geopigs are very happy to help a traveler, I've seen both go through airports and such with bags and bags of travelers, helping move them in the right direction or simply moving them so the owners see them move, and they ALWAYS take pics and add them to the logs! If you happen to go to any of the MEGA events held near here (MI), you'll notice both the Geopigs and MaxB work the TB tables and also often give instructional talks on TB movement and ettiquette! Very Well said Roddy, these people you mentioned are wonderful people and they move peoples trackables in the direction that the goals state. They move travel bug/ geocoins many miles. They do a wondeful job, we be honored to have them move a trackable of our anyday. I agree, couldn't have said it better. They're wonderful people who go out of their way to treat bugs well and to bring them closer to their goals. Any bug of mine that travels with them would be proud to carry their tag I heard they started tagging all of the bugs they came across so they would know if they had picked up a particular bug before, having taken so many bugs on so many trips.. Their stat on the card is impressive, and true, but I don't think it's trying to be boastful in any way, just a little signature that they can easily identify if they see it in a cache, and know right away if they should leave it in the cache. Either way, I don't mind at all. Some may, it is your bug after all, and I'm sure if you email them and ask that they not tag any bugs of yours they'd be happy to comply with your wishes; they're really nice people. Quote Link to comment
+Fiery Searcher Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Someone is taking the thread-initiator's question as a personal attack and not recognizing it for what it is: a relatively new person asking a legitimate question. And what to they receive in response for their query for information? An attack. Nice. The question is really asking about a zip-tied metal object that is scratching the geocoin it is attached to, thereby causing damage. I don't believe they are talking about the paper attachments which, IMHO, are just fun. Moreover, they are not the ones mentioning names and raising "a stink." Those of us with travellers DO appreciate any movement we get from whomever we get it. However, I do think it is a legitimate topic of debate - and for which there is no winner - as to the motivation to add these tags. Is it for the TB owner, or is it for the TB mover? Just asking for the opinion of whoever wants to weigh in and give their two cents - not for any other reason. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) Someone is taking the thread-initiator's question as a personal attack and not recognizing it for what it is: a relatively new person asking a legitimate question. And what to they receive in response for their query for information? An attack. Nice. The question is really asking about a zip-tied metal object that is scratching the geocoin it is attached to, thereby causing damage. I don't believe they are talking about the paper attachments which, IMHO, are just fun. Moreover, they are not the ones mentioning names and raising "a stink." Those of us with travellers DO appreciate any movement we get from whomever we get it. However, I do think it is a legitimate topic of debate - and for which there is no winner - as to the motivation to add these tags. Is it for the TB owner, or is it for the TB mover? Just asking for the opinion of whoever wants to weigh in and give their two cents - not for any other reason. I believe they mentioned the tag in their OP?? Seems to me they brought it up, and anyone who's seen one of these tags already knows who is being talked about! I also named MaxB so the OP can understand exactly who and what kind of people they are discussing! I am answering their question as best I can and if it's seen as an attack, so be it! The stink was brought up, I am sharing my experience with them. My question about why they saw the need to ask the owner and then bring it here was merely to find out their mentality. If they were just curious, fine. If they are asking to be the TB police..... Truly, a tag on someone else's traveler is the last thing that I'd have concern over and I'd hardly put forth effort to inquire into someone else's business! Again, if they are inquisitive, fine. Not a personal attack, they are basically calling out a practice of a friend. While they did mention the bear, they described the tag in detail leading me to believe it was a problem for them. That's why I asked why it was a concern! Sure, the metal bear is a bit much if it's scratching up the coin, but would it bother me enough to first email the owner and then carry it further to come here and ask?? A tag is hardly defacing a traveler, it's actually helping the traveler along! read my other comments if you need to know how I come to this belief! ETA...I was watching for the OP's response, even noticed they were responding (or at least posting a comment somewhere), must be they changed their mind? Either their question was answered or I was just to rude for them... My comments might come across as harsh, sorry. I have a little too much on my mind I suppose. I likely could have been nicer, but I stand by my words even if I should have been gentler! Edited October 31, 2008 by Rockin Roddy Quote Link to comment
+Dnalsi Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Sheese!!! EXCUSE ME Roddy for being a new person asking an honest question here. I found your responses quite rude considering I was trying to learn something. If anyone is making a stink out of this , you certainly are! "The tags aren't harmful, but some owners do get upset, let them deal with the tags if they feel they must!" Owner is in the Netherlands. Geocoin is in MN. I'm curious to know, does MaxB get permission to attach his cards to other cachers trackables, or does he just do it with out permission? Interesting how the owner of this one requested the add-ons be removed. What concern is it of mine? The same concern that has me replacing torn ziplock bags on logs, adding new logs to caches that have damaged or full logs. I hear how helpfull and friendly the Geocaching community is. I can't say I even begin to believe that with my brief experience here. Quote Link to comment
+Droo Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 What some cachers do and what is acceptable or even common behaviour are two different things. The guidelines are loose and the rules not enforceable so the point is to have fun with it and make the best of it. As for the TB tours tag I'm personally thrilled to have had one of my TBs and one of my coins join the tour and get tagged as such. And when a cacher decides to add a baggie and a printed mission statement from the coin/tb's travel page included I am honoured someone would take the time and have such care to see my game piece move along with the greatest of ease. I have also come across TB Dog Tags that had lost their traveler. After a quick email with a new pic to the owner the travel page was updated to show the new attached traveler. No harm no foul. Quote Link to comment
+Droo Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Sheese!!! EXCUSE ME Roddy for being a new person asking an honest question here. I found your responses quite rude considering I was trying to learn something. If anyone is making a stink out of this , you certainly are! "The tags aren't harmful, but some owners do get upset, let them deal with the tags if they feel they must!" Owner is in the Netherlands. Geocoin is in MN. I'm curious to know, does MaxB get permission to attach his cards to other cachers trackables, or does he just do it with out permission? Interesting how the owner of this one requested the add-ons be removed. What concern is it of mine? The same concern that has me replacing torn ziplock bags on logs, adding new logs to caches that have damaged or full logs. I hear how helpfull and friendly the Geocaching community is. I can't say I even begin to believe that with my brief experience here. On reading Roddy's comments I don't see what there is to get so steamed up about. But then I am familiar with him and I'm familiar with MaxB and the TB/GC tours so I don't see the big deal. As a noob you could learn more about established practises from the old timers instead of wanting to hack out a niche for yourself based on what you're familiar with so far. And I say that with kindness but will have my flame retardant suit nearby in case you choose not to take it that way. Quote Link to comment
+Dnalsi Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 If attaching personal stuff to other cahcers trackables is the accepted thing to do, great! I personally could care less, since I have no trackables out there. I wanted to know for future reference. No need to jump all over me about it. A simple "yes it is allowed" or "no don't do that" would suffice. Quote Link to comment
+Dnalsi Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 "As a noob you could learn more about established practises from the old timers instead of wanting to hack out a niche for yourself based on what you're familiar with so far." I guess I thought that is what I was doing by asking a question here. Never thought I would get jumped on for it. Quote Link to comment
+Fiery Searcher Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Why can't Dnalsi, or anyone for that matter, ask a question about a PRACTICE without it being perceived as an attack on a PERSON/TEAM? There is no doubt in my mind that everyone in this thread has the best of intentions and is a "good person," but the question asked was not: "Are cachers who attach tags bad people?" No need for a flame retardant suit of any kind, but it seems to me the forums should be a place where questions can be asked and received as looking for information, at least at first. I'd hate to think we have turned someone away because of a misperception. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Sheese!!! EXCUSE ME Roddy for being a new person asking an honest question here. I found your responses quite rude considering I was trying to learn something. If anyone is making a stink out of this , you certainly are! "The tags aren't harmful, but some owners do get upset, let them deal with the tags if they feel they must!" Owner is in the Netherlands. Geocoin is in MN. I'm curious to know, does MaxB get permission to attach his cards to other cachers trackables, or does he just do it with out permission? Interesting how the owner of this one requested the add-ons be removed. What concern is it of mine? The same concern that has me replacing torn ziplock bags on logs, adding new logs to caches that have damaged or full logs. I hear how helpfull and friendly the Geocaching community is. I can't say I even begin to believe that with my brief experience here. You're excused Maybe if I use enough smilies, you'll see I'm not really trying to be as rude as you think! I believe you asked after you took the time to email the owner? Seems to me it must have really bugged YOU! I look at it like this, life is just too darned short! My only reason to even respond here is because you're calling out a practice of a friend. I can see you asking the owner IF it really bothered you (the non-owner), but then to start a topic and all but naming the person?? Swell, the owner of that particular TB asked for the tag to be removed....one out of...how many was on that tag again?? Unless I'm truly reading too much into this, you were so moved by this, that you felt the need to also bring it to the forums?? I question this type of action, it worries me that my TBs/coins might meet up with someone who is too worried about my stuff! I let my items loose with full knowledge they might come up missing or get broken etc...having someone CARE for my item is a godsend! Knowing who moved my items is an honor! Now, I'm a bad old man with no heart, so you'll have to excuse my harshness...I'm a mean old man! On the other hand, if you'd read the entire posts and not get offended, you might realize I answered your questions! Oh...and welcome to the geocoin forums!! Quote Link to comment
+Fiery Searcher Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Now, I'm a bad old man with no heart, so you'll have to excuse my harshness...I'm a mean old man! Not mean - just passionate! Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) If attaching personal stuff to other cahcers trackables is the accepted thing to do, great! I personally could care less, since I have no trackables out there. I wanted to know for future reference. No need to jump all over me about it. A simple "yes it is allowed" or "no don't do that" would suffice. Would a "yes..." have answered your question fully? Sorry if I offered up the reasoning behind the practice! It concerns me that you, someone with no items traveling could get so worked up over this practice, so let me offer you this: I'll send out a traveler in your name (I'll give you the tracking number, you activate it, I'll release it). This will help YOU in a few ways...first, you'll learn how to activate an item. Second, you'll learn the joy of watching your traveler move and lastly, you'll get first-hand experience in the tag thing since I'll give the coin to my friends the Geopigs...and they'll tag it! Game? I would add that I have stipulations to this offer...first, it MUST be given Todie's Wild Ride as the beginning of the name, second, it WILL be tagged! Lastly, it must be given a mission to spread bike awareness. Still, GAME??? Edited October 31, 2008 by Rockin Roddy Quote Link to comment
+Dnalsi Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 I gather that MaxB does a very positive service to the trackables he finds. That's GREAT! A simple explaination of who and what he does would have sufficed. So....is it generally considered OK by the geocaching community to attach "things" to trackables you don't own but find in caches??? Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 (edited) I gather that MaxB does a very positive service to the trackables he finds. That's GREAT! A simple explaination of who and what he does would have sufficed. So....is it generally considered OK by the geocaching community to attach "things" to trackables you don't own but find in caches??? I'd say that all depends on the owner... I think you've seen a fair amount of answers already, but I'm sure you know my thoughts! MaxB is a woman, her husband is also in the team. They travel all over the world moving TBs and helping them with their missions while assuring they stay safe and protected! Edited October 31, 2008 by Rockin Roddy Quote Link to comment
avroair Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 1) How common it is for cachers to attach items to trackables that do not belong to them? 2) Is this practice accepted by the geocaching community? YES and YES I sometimes add tags to help distinguish a coin as being a traveler. If it helps to move it along then it's great! Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 No and No. Never add to or alter another person's traveler without permission. Quote Link to comment
+The Moop Along Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'm just wondering: 1) How common it is for cachers to attach items to trackables that do not belong to them? 2) Is this practice accepted by the geocaching community? 1) Very Common 2) I hate it. Specifically for me, I release geocoins in the plastic PVC flips, with mission cards. People who add stuff put them in baggies (yuck) or punch/staple/add things to the flips. It damages and tears the flips faster than they normally would, and detracts from my pretty coins. TMA Quote Link to comment
+Kealia Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 So....is it generally considered OK by the geocaching community to attach "things" to trackables you don't own but find in caches??? No, it's not. There are really few people who do this. No and No. Never add to or alter another person's traveler without permission. Agreed - you should always ask. I have to disagree with you on this one Roddy. Just because they people that are giving TLC to the travelers are good people and friends, it doesn't mean that it's OK to do this. What if the people in question were not generally thought of by the community as "good people" - would we think differently? There is a local here who does the same thing - provides clean-up services for travelers, new tags, bags, etc. but I *think* they ask before doing it or attaching their item to the traveler. I wouldn't expect people to think it's ok to alter a cache in any way, and the same thing should apply to TBs/coins. Move it, feel free to clean it up (add a fresh baggie, mission sheet, etc.), or don't. But altering or adding something to it without the owner's OK shouldn't even be a question. There are many of us out there who take care of travelers, clean up caches, upgrade swag, etc. and don't look for praise or acknowledgment for doing so. I don't see any reason for this practice. I know that this seems to be a discussion now about a singular person, but let's keep this focused on the general practice itself. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'm just wondering: 1) How common it is for cachers to attach items to trackables that do not belong to them? 2) Is this practice accepted by the geocaching community? 1) Very Common 2) I hate it. Specifically for me, I release geocoins in the plastic PVC flips, with mission cards. People who add stuff put them in baggies (yuck) or punch/staple/add things to the flips. It damages and tears the flips faster than they normally would, and detracts from my pretty coins. TMA I understand you're not wanting someone to staple or affix in any way something to your filps, that's not good. BUT, not putting the coin in a baggie isn't the very best way to send a coin out IMHO. If someone comes across it and doesn't read the little card, they might consider it swag and keep it for a long time before realizing their mistake (if ever). A coin in a flip with a tag...that's how the unactivated coins come from the mint! Placing the coin in a baggie with a nice laminated mission statement and info helps protect your coin , but that is just my humble opinion!!! I never drill my coins, I see that as ruining the poor beautiful traveler. If someone wants my coin bad enough, they'll take them (and some here have wanted them bad enough to take them ). Quote Link to comment
+Dnalsi Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 "I believe you asked after you took the time to email the owner? Seems to me it must have really bugged YOU! " Not bugged, like I said, I have no trackables out there, so I personally could care less. I am curious as to what is considered proper etiquette, thus the questions on this forum. I found the coin in question yesterday. Went to log that I picked it up, and saw the added items. I emailed the owner asking if they were supposed to be attached, and if not, asking if they should be removed. Owner responded by asking me to remove the 2 items, and thanked me for helping her. I then became curious if this was common practice so I went to this forum. I understand there is no hard or fast rule regarding attaching your "stuff" to another cachers trackables. I wanted to find out what the general geocacher community consensus would be. I appreciate your offer to set me up with a trackable of my own. Thank You for that. I understand your friend MaxB performs a great service to the geo trackables community. I will respectfully decline your offer. No offense intended. I'm sure I will have more questions in the future. My goal is to geocache in a responsible way, thus the questions Quote Link to comment
+Kealia Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 You did the right thing twice: 1) You emailed the owner to ask and clarify 2) You came and asked the community for their thoughts Kudos to you for both actions. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I understand there is no hard or fast rule regarding attaching your "stuff" to another cachers trackables. Plenty of information here: HOW TO LOG A TRAVEL BUG OR GEOCOIN, Instructions on logging. (Note: TBs are not trade items.) You cannot attach anything to a TB without getting the owner's permission first, this includes a ziplock baggie and a laminated card or sheet. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 So....is it generally considered OK by the geocaching community to attach "things" to trackables you don't own but find in caches??? No, it's not. There are really few people who do this. No and No. Never add to or alter another person's traveler without permission. Agreed - you should always ask. I have to disagree with you on this one Roddy. Just because they people that are giving TLC to the travelers are good people and friends, it doesn't mean that it's OK to do this. What if the people in question were not generally thought of by the community as "good people" - would we think differently? There is a local here who does the same thing - provides clean-up services for travelers, new tags, bags, etc. but I *think* they ask before doing it or attaching their item to the traveler. I wouldn't expect people to think it's ok to alter a cache in any way, and the same thing should apply to TBs/coins. Move it, feel free to clean it up (add a fresh baggie, mission sheet, etc.), or don't. But altering or adding something to it without the owner's OK shouldn't even be a question. There are many of us out there who take care of travelers, clean up caches, upgrade swag, etc. and don't look for praise or acknowledgment for doing so. I don't see any reason for this practice. I know that this seems to be a discussion now about a singular person, but let's keep this focused on the general practice itself. People leave their cards in caches all the time, is this any different? I don't think so, but that's my view! They aren't looking for praise, they have reasons for their tags. It let's them know from a glance which travelers they've moved (much like a card in a cache allows one to know from a glance they had been there...think it can't happen?? I've found at least one cache that I had found before and forgotten about). Sure, you might call them lazy for not going to the computer and checking first, TBs change in a cache often, sometimes in mid-day and just before you get to the cache...the computer can't tell you this in most cases! Quote Link to comment
ELTADA Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 When you take your car in for maintenance, they often put a tag on the keyring, when changing the oil, there's often a sticker added to the window. It happens! When you travel by air, the airport adds tags to your luggage, when visiting foriegn countries, your passport is stamped...it happens! ... ... I'm confident that, if you are worried about it, you could contact MaxB or The Geopigs personally and ask that they not put in the oving care when moving your TB!! They are more than happy to do this or not as instructed! Well, the examples above require me to give consent (in some way or another even if it is specifically talked about)...my mechanic certainly doesn't organize my trunk for me. They do wash my truck but they never forget to ask my permission first. And no, I am not worried about MaxB or The Geopigs putting "loving care" into moving my TB. It sounds like they are very thoughtful caching teams that care a lot about TBs. I was never disputing that or suggesting that they stop caring about TBs. I am sure there are TONS of geocachers that make extra effort to help TBs, replace logbooks, add pencils to caches, perform CITO, etc. The question raised was about attaching things to a TB without the owner's permission. Quote Link to comment
ELTADA Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 "I believe you asked after you took the time to email the owner? Seems to me it must have really bugged YOU! " Not bugged, like I said, I have no trackables out there, so I personally could care less. I am curious as to what is considered proper etiquette, thus the questions on this forum. I found the coin in question yesterday. Went to log that I picked it up, and saw the added items. I emailed the owner asking if they were supposed to be attached, and if not, asking if they should be removed. Owner responded by asking me to remove the 2 items, and thanked me for helping her. I then became curious if this was common practice so I went to this forum. I understand there is no hard or fast rule regarding attaching your "stuff" to another cachers trackables. I wanted to find out what the general geocacher community consensus would be. I appreciate your offer to set me up with a trackable of my own. Thank You for that. I understand your friend MaxB performs a great service to the geo trackables community. I will respectfully decline your offer. No offense intended. I'm sure I will have more questions in the future. My goal is to geocache in a responsible way, thus the questions I have always been a fan of questions! I ask a few zillion of my own on a regular basis... Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 "I believe you asked after you took the time to email the owner? Seems to me it must have really bugged YOU! " Not bugged, like I said, I have no trackables out there, so I personally could care less. I am curious as to what is considered proper etiquette, thus the questions on this forum. I found the coin in question yesterday. Went to log that I picked it up, and saw the added items. I emailed the owner asking if they were supposed to be attached, and if not, asking if they should be removed. Owner responded by asking me to remove the 2 items, and thanked me for helping her. I then became curious if this was common practice so I went to this forum. I understand there is no hard or fast rule regarding attaching your "stuff" to another cachers trackables. I wanted to find out what the general geocacher community consensus would be. I appreciate your offer to set me up with a trackable of my own. Thank You for that. I understand your friend MaxB performs a great service to the geo trackables community. I will respectfully decline your offer. No offense intended. I'm sure I will have more questions in the future. My goal is to geocache in a responsible way, thus the questions Your choice, and I respect that! Sorry to have "jumped" all over you as I migt have. If you want to see how a trackable moves, place any one of the listed coins in the Todie's Wild Ride thread on watch and you'll receive emails each time it is picked up and dropped...good fun! BD....do you truly see it bad to have someone replace a baggie? Or add a baggie when one is obvioulsy needed? And would adding a tag in the baggie be a bad thing? I don't do any of these (too darned lazy truthfully), but would welcome any! I do, however dislike the practice of actually adding the tag to the chain (but wouldn't want the tag removed if placed there). It does give the impression that anything goes and someone might add that little metal bear which could do damage! A card in the baggie is more welcomed, but a laminated tag is allowed...for me! And no, I suppose asking permission wouldn't be a bad thing..... Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 So....is it generally considered OK by the geocaching community to attach "things" to trackables you don't own but find in caches??? No, it's not. There are really few people who do this. No and No. Never add to or alter another person's traveler without permission. Agreed - you should always ask. I have to disagree with you on this one Roddy. Just because they people that are giving TLC to the travelers are good people and friends, it doesn't mean that it's OK to do this. What if the people in question were not generally thought of by the community as "good people" - would we think differently? I couldn't see someone who wasn't good in the community to even bother. If someone, even someone I had issues with, wanted to care for my TB, I'd not begrudge them a tag! Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 BD....do you truly see it bad to have someone replace a baggie? Or add a baggie when one is obviously needed? And would adding a tag in the baggie be a bad thing? I don't do any of these (too darned lazy truthfully), but would welcome any! Adding a baggie when one is obviously needed? Still ask first. You might be helping that cacher understand why it should have been released with one in the first place. Replacing a worn baggie? When the subject comes up in the forum, the rule is as stated - Never add to or alter another person's traveler without permission. Quote Link to comment
+PastorDIC Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 1) How common it is for cachers to attach items to trackables that do not belong to them? 2) Is this practice accepted by the geocaching community? 1) I'm surprised by the comments so far. I have almost 1000 finds and I don't remember a single time that there were attachments to TBs or geocoins unless that was stated on the mission. 2)Don't know. Regardless of whether others think it is ok or not, if the attachment is defacing the geocoin or TB, I would definitely be upset. I've never added anything to the TB or coin except a new ziplock bag, and if it has a special mission to go somewhere I try to both take it in that direction and comment in the log and online where it is heading. Some people take TBs and then find later that they took it in the wrong direction, so the comment in the log helps them know. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Some people take TBs and then find later that they took it in the wrong direction, so the comment in the log helps them know. So would a mission card added to the travelers' baggie. Finding a trackable in the wild without a mission card means there's no way to know where it wants to go. And as I said, checking online beforehand isn't always helpful as TBs/coins change locations fast sometimes. Quote Link to comment
+Landsharkz Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 We would refresh what we found but keep the contents the same as what it states on the TB page. I have sent notes to the TB's owner to clarify what they want done if I'm not sure. If the bag was torn or the mission sheet was disintegrating we'd replace them for sure without asking and we'd hope the same would hold true for our travellers. I keep wishing for a laminator so I can replace a ratty mission sheet with a more durable laminated one... if anyone sees one on EBay, do send me a note It's those PVC coin flips that get torn or dirty that we seem to replace mostly. Thankfully we have a pile of them here so that's an easy fix . A lot of the coins that pass through our hands get a new coin flip and we never attach anything saying that we did this. Quote Link to comment
+Landsharkz Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Some people take TBs and then find later that they took it in the wrong direction, so the comment in the log helps them know. So would a mission card added to the travelers' baggie. Finding a trackable in the wild without a mission card means there's no way to know where it wants to go. And as I said, checking online beforehand isn't always helpful as TBs/coins change locations fast sometimes. If we find a coin that has a specific mission that isn't apparent, then we DO add a card of some sort stating this mission. We were able to help some coins and TB's get from Rendez-vous Quebec to Colorado, Utah, NV and BC this past summer because it was required that all TB's and Coins have their mission written clearly on a card before you were allowed to drop them off. Quote Link to comment
+The Moop Along Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'm just wondering: 1) How common it is for cachers to attach items to trackables that do not belong to them? 2) Is this practice accepted by the geocaching community? 1) Very Common 2) I hate it. Specifically for me, I release geocoins in the plastic PVC flips, with mission cards. People who add stuff put them in baggies (yuck) or punch/staple/add things to the flips. It damages and tears the flips faster than they normally would, and detracts from my pretty coins. TMA I understand you're not wanting someone to staple or affix in any way something to your filps, that's not good. BUT, not putting the coin in a baggie isn't the very best way to send a coin out IMHO. If someone comes across it and doesn't read the little card, they might consider it swag and keep it for a long time before realizing their mistake (if ever). A coin in a flip with a tag...that's how the unactivated coins come from the mint! Placing the coin in a baggie with a nice laminated mission statement and info helps protect your coin , but that is just my humble opinion!!! I never drill my coins, I see that as ruining the poor beautiful traveler. If someone wants my coin bad enough, they'll take them (and some here have wanted them bad enough to take them ). That's the beauty of it I spent the money to buy the coin, make a laminated goal card, and send it out that way. If it makes it one hop, or fifty, I want the coin to gleam in its flip. No other junk. My way isn't right, and it isn't wrong. It's just my way. The OP asked for an opinion, and that's what they got TMA Quote Link to comment
+Butterfly_lady Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Simple - If I find a coin totally alone, I am happy to pop it into a sleeve for protection. If it has a mission that it is not adhering to, then I will print it's mission and pop it into the other side of the flip sleeve. My rule is that I NEVER alter the trackable. A TB that needs a stitch or a spot of glue is welcomed to rest and recover. If making a major change, then it is only courtesy to email the owner. If no response, then the owner is no longer caching. Some TBs invite you to add to them. I picked up a postcard one, and have experienced those very heavy and getting too big keyrings often. Welcome Dnalsi - It's good to have responsible cachers out there. Quote Link to comment
danoshimano Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I can't tell if a mission or something has been added to a TB or coin, because I didn't see it when it started out. Therefore, how common it is would be is impossible for me to say. In my early years, I found a Scout badge TB in Rochester NY. It had come from the Netherlands with the goal to reach the Monument to Heroes in Morden, Manitoba. It was languishing around the US for quite awhile. My son and I brought it back to Barrie. We photographed Jakob in his cub uniform with the TB, and added that picture to a mission sheet. The mission sheet was obviously added by me (if you read it) and not by the originator. (Who knows what it started with?) After that, the TB made steady progress up to north Ontario, then across the top of the lakes and eventually to its final destination. Then, it made it all the way back to its starting point and the scouting troop in the Netherlands. I was pretty happy about that, but I didn't ask for permission to add that sheet and put it in a heavy-duty ziplock freezer bag (the only kind worth using). Quote Link to comment
+Cheesy pigs Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I sometimes find geocoins that are just loose in a cache, with no identifiers on them. I email the owner and ask if they would like me to add a plastic sleeve and the mission for it. I have never had a cacher refuse! They generally dont realise just how wrecked a coin can get from travelling unprotected, and that loose coins can sometimes mean 'swag' to be kept. As for MaxB - they are the most brilliant people. They travelled with me around Tasmania, and the only things (apart from their luggage) they brought with them or took away were the TB's. Like Rocking Roddy I'd be thrilled if they got hold of one of my Geocoins. They take them from state to state, country to country, helping to fulfill the mission for each coin and TB. They aways check the goal of the coin before they move it, and always take great photos and write stories for the coins they move. It was so exciting to find coins that had MaxB's little card in the baggie. I took them to our main geocoin exchange cache, and they foun a TB they had moved ages ago, and remembered the story of it. So they left that one here for others to move. I love the fact that they care so much about other people that they do their best to help geocoins along their way. They have also made lots of new friends through moving coins, taking photos and putting great stories on the coin listing Quote Link to comment
+Kealia Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 With all due respect, that's a nice story but this thread isn't about them. It's about the practice of attaching things to other people's travelers. Now, if my coin were in a baggie, I wouldn't be upset if somebody dropped a card in that bag (although I really wouldn't like it). But if somebody attached a card to my coin, regardless of whether they moved it 5 miles or 5,000 miles, it wouldn't be right. Quote Link to comment
+Kealia Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 With all due respect, that's a nice story but this thread isn't about them. It's about the practice of attaching things to other people's travelers. Now, if my coin were in a baggie, I wouldn't be upset if somebody dropped a card in that bag (although I really wouldn't like it). But if somebody attached a card to my coin, regardless of whether they moved it 5 miles or 5,000 miles, it wouldn't be right. Quote Link to comment
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