Geocaching Etiquette and Attitude.

[diddypants]

[Written by a Northern California cacher. I don't mean to speak for any part of the international community. Also, I have posted this on the Northern California regional forum. I have added it here for the sake of discussion.]

 

I'm a newbie. I'll say it and I'll wear it.

 

I've gathered that there isn't too much action on this board, but I thought I might try to start a conversation based on something that I've noticed (a little) that is not so much mentioned or acknowledged.

 

I'm in the North Bay, and while I've got less than 40 caches found at this point, I have already started to notice trends in the logs and based on those, and a couple of the private messages I've received, I have decided that the number of d**ch*bags that cache (at least in my area) is higher than I would have expected.

 

Is this a taboo subject? I'm new to all this and forgive me if I am pointing at that elephant in the corner, but it seems as though there are three distinct groups of cachers, and the population is equally divided.

 

There are the old-timers (not necessarily OLD) that have a lot of finds (maybe 1000+) but are happy to spread their knowledge and help out newcomers. They enjoy the game and want others to as well.

 

Then, there are the folks that have been doing it for a little while, but not too long. Some have 1000 finds, and others less than 100. This is the silent group. They are polite in the logs, but don't seem to have many, if any relationships with other cachers.

 

Then... Then there are those "old-school" cachers who have seen it all, done it all, and found it all. They tell newbies to avoid micros, and go for those large caches in fields as opposed to those camo'd caches smaller than my pinky finger hidden in plain sight. Every log they post mentions how many they found in a certain day, and how easy it was to find the cache. Everything is quick or easy, and is X of Y caches in a day in some area.

 

Are we not all out to have fun and find things that most don't see? Is the point to win? Is it to be better or have more finds? If so, I misunderstood the premise and misunderstand the point. I'm all for people wanting to be the first to find a cache and those who write great stories about their finds, even if the story was in the journey not the find. What I am not for is the braggadocio, and empty pretension that seems to poke its ugly head up on the logs. Most is passive arrogance, but it's there. I've gathered a good idea (in my TWENTY DAYS of caching... don't come after me), who falls where... At least of those in my area that have... notoriety.

 

My point? There doesn't seem to be a lot of "calling out" in the geocaching community. Granted, cache logs aren't the place for dialogue, but... where is the place?

 

Again, I am new to this. I don't see a lot of traffic on this board and don't expect a deluge of responses, but I have to ask... Am I alone in feeling that the local community of geocaching is split between those who want to help and encourage and those who want to belittle others while singing their own praises?

 

And in the end... This is one GEEKY hobby. Nothing wrong with it at all, but seriously... Those of you that think you are better than other cachers because you have more finds, make your finds more quickly, or have cached in more places? Stop it. Tell someone you know who doesn't cache or know about geocaching how awesome you are and see if they care. They won't. They shouldn't.

 

Comments?

[+gravechaser]

I'm in the "silent" group. Honestly I have not run into an "old-timer" yet. Everyone that I have run across has been helpful, friendly, or at least quiet.

 

In all things, be it jobs, hobbies, or families, there will be personalities that naturally lend themselves to the three groups that you defined. For me? I try to concern myself only with how I am functioning. Am I helpful? Friendly? Cold? Rude? Snobby? I hope that I am at least helpful and friendly to people.

[+Kohavis]

I don't think geocaching is any different than any other activity where you have people from all over the spectrum participating.

 

You'll find inconsiderate types, rude types, cheaters, liars, manipulators, aggressive insecure types, egocentric buffoons, macho idiots, etc. They're the ones who are in your face all the time about their find count, that post false log entries, that are elitist about which caches they feel are worthy and slam others for being "lame", they feel they are better than most but still participate because it still amuses them to have a venue where they can belittle others, they remote-cache, they log their own caches as "finds", they tip off friends on FTFs before publication, basically a detriment to the sport.

 

But you also find some genuinely nice, pleasant, polite, knowledgeable, helpful, selfless, generous and kind folks who make geocaching one of the better experiences out there. They're the ones who answer questions constantly here in the forums from newbies who have asked the same question - without getting short-tempered, they replace the torn zip-lock bag in your cache if it needs it ...or a log book ...or even the container, they send you an e-mail - unsolicited - when you log a DNF on one of their caches, they don't think twice about taking a newbie out to "show him the ropes" if requested, they are always thoughtful and appreciative in their log entries, basically an asset to the sport.

 

Fortunately, the second group outnumbers the first group

[+nelson crew]

Yeah, there are some "cache snobs" but you'll find such people in any group.

 

As for the old-timers saying "don't go after micros", I disagree that they are always the snobs.

 

I'm relatively new to the sport myself, but lately have been spending a lot of time in the forums reading up on some history. I used to think it was arrogant and rude for some to complain about the micros, but I must admit that now I see their point. This game has become diluted from what it was when they started, and they are just up front about what it is that they like about caching. When it comes down to it, that what I like about caching, too. I'm just also ok with the micros, probably because that's what the game had become when I started.

 

So I say reserve judgment and read and absorb more. You might learn something. After getting some perspective, I will a) never plant a LPC, never plant a guardrail micro, and c) will now make a better effort on cache hides to ensure it's not so lame.

[+tozainamboku]

I'm relatively new to the sport myself, but lately have been spending a lot of time in the forums reading up on some history. I used to think it was arrogant and rude for some to complain about the micros, but I must admit that now I see their point. This game has become diluted from what it was when they started, and they are just up front about what it is that they like about caching. When it comes down to it, that what I like about caching, too. I'm just also ok with the micros, probably because that's what the game had become when I started.

The history is that very early on people began hiding what are sometimes called lame urban micros. I'm not sure when the first LPC or guardrail was hidden but it was probably in the first year. When virtuals were allowed, there was so much complaining about lame virtuals that the guidelines for virtuals were changed to have a "wow" rule. And there have been people into "numbers" from the start as well. The difference is the cache density is higher now. Its a lot easier to go and grab 70 to 80 caches in day now than it use to be. So the numbers people are happier and the non-numbers people complain there are too many lame caches.

 

Its amazing that newbies have this idealized vision of what geocaching used to be. I understand it from some of the old timers because it is true that originally people found out about geocaching because they had a GPS for hiking, hunting, or mountain biking. Now days people have GPS enabled cell phones or cross over units that they got primarily for car navigation. So it may be that we now have more "urban" cachers who play the game different from those who geocache to supplement another activity liking hiking or mountain biking. This inevitably has changed the ratio in the kinds of caches hidden.

 

What is true is that today there are many more caches to find then there used to be. Since no one is going to find all the caches, people are looking for ways to find those caches that they would more likely enjoy. There are many tools available that you can take advantage of. While there is no perfect method of eliminating all the caches you think are lame while not eliminating any cache you might enjoy you can do things to maximize your enjoyment. It is certainly not unreasonable to ask for more tools to make this process easier.

[+briansnat]

I have decided that the number of d**ch*bags that cache (at least in my area) is higher than I would have expected.

 

I've found quite the opposite. Geocaching is a sport that depends on the generosity, honesty and good will of others, so it tends to attract generous, honest and decent people. Of course as with any group of people there will be jerks, but my experience is that they are in the overwhelming minority.

 

What I am not for is the braggadocio, and empty pretension that seems to poke its ugly head up on the logs. Most is passive arrogance, but it's there.

 

Perhaps you are reading something that isn't there. When people mention things like "#17 out of 20 today", or

"it was an easy find", you might see it as bragging, where the logger just feels he is just logging a factual account of the hunt. I see logs like that all the time and I rarely consider them to be bragging.

[+hukilaulau]

I've been caching almost 4 years, have close to 2000 finds, cached in 28 states, and have more than 50 hides.

I've come across exactly ONE truly objectionable person, and fortunately he's not very active anymore.

The folks here in long island are all friendly, enthusiastic and helpful to new cachers. We have a few with several thousand finds and some with just a few. I've only met a few people in other states but they've always been friendly and unpretentious as well.

The forums, now, that's a different kettle of plastic! I have run into (virtually) some really mean, arrogant, and just plain WRONG individuals online! Or so I've thought. One of the people I've often disagreed with here in the forums points out that when he's actually MET some of his virtual sparring partners, they've gotten along fine. I suspect the same would be true for me.

But I guess the real point is, if you are having fun going out and finding stuff, don't worry about what others are doing...

[+wimseyguy]

When TAR posts he'll probably say something about the best and worst aspects of geocaching is that everyone can do it.

 

I've found the db:nice people to be much lower in geocaching than in almost any other aspect of life I have been involved with. Before I discovered this game I played a lot of golf. This is nothing compared to that group.

And if you think it gets heated up in the forums on occasion, try visiting a skiing, car enthusiast, or chef forum for comparisons sake.

[Mr.Yuck]

Then... Then there are those "old-school" cachers who have seen it all, done it all, and found it all. They tell newbies to avoid micros, and go for those large caches in fields as opposed to those camo'd caches smaller than my pinky finger hidden in plain sight. Every log they post mentions how many they found in a certain day, and how easy it was to find the cache. Everything is quick or easy, and is X of Y caches in a day in some area.

 

Sort of the same thing Snat said in the post above me, I think you're reading way too much into this (the paragraph I'm quoting).

 

It's not unusual to see "17 of 20" for the day, or whatever on cache logs. Never even thought about it as anything but 17 of 20.

 

As far as seeing "quick and easy" in every log, that's what people write when the cache is quick and easy. Not much to say about that film canister in the parking lot. It's as if people are expected to log these things with 10 words or less, and three of the words being quick and easy.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

I don't think geocaching is any different than any other activity where you have people from all over the spectrum participating.

 

You'll find inconsiderate types, rude types, cheaters, liars, manipulators, aggressive insecure types, egocentric buffoons, macho idiots, etc. They're the ones who are in your face all the time about their find count, that post false log entries, that are elitist about which caches they feel are worthy and slam others for being "lame", they feel they are better than most but still participate because it still amuses them to have a venue where they can belittle others, they remote-cache, they log their own caches as "finds", they tip off friends on FTFs before publication, basically a detriment to the sport.

 

But you also find some genuinely nice, pleasant, polite, knowledgeable, helpful, selfless, generous and kind folks who make geocaching one of the better experiences out there. They're the ones who answer questions constantly here in the forums from newbies who have asked the same question - without getting short-tempered, they replace the torn zip-lock bag in your cache if it needs it ...or a log book ...or even the container, they send you an e-mail - unsolicited - when you log a DNF on one of their caches, they don't think twice about taking a newbie out to "show him the ropes" if requested, they are always thoughtful and appreciative in their log entries, basically an asset to the sport.

 

Fortunately, the second group outnumbers the first group

 

I'm co-signing Kohavis on this one.

All we can do is continue to make that second group bigger!

 

- Elle

[+KBI]

Then... Then there are those "old-school" cachers who have seen it all, done it all, and found it all. They tell newbies to avoid micros, and go for those large caches in fields as opposed to those camo'd caches smaller than my pinky finger hidden in plain sight. Every log they post mentions how many they found in a certain day, and how easy it was to find the cache. Everything is quick or easy, and is X of Y caches in a day in some area.

 

Are we not all out to have fun and find things that most don't see? Is the point to win? Is it to be better or have more finds? If so, I misunderstood the premise and misunderstand the point. I'm all for people wanting to be the first to find a cache and those who write great stories about their finds, even if the story was in the journey not the find. What I am not for is the braggadocio, and empty pretension that seems to poke its ugly head up on the logs. Most is passive arrogance, but it's there. I've gathered a good idea (in my TWENTY DAYS of caching... don't come after me), who falls where... At least of those in my area that have... notoriety....

 

Comments?

There is no shortage of snobs who love to crow about their superior experience and to lecture about how their version of geocaching is really the only 'proper' way to participate, while simultaneously and condescendingly whining about not being adequately entertained by every cache hide that receives the privilege of their attention.

 

I believe such attitudes almost always spring from an abnormal level of insecurity on their part, but that's just my theory.

 

Geocaching attitudes tend to mirror the attitudes of the general population. Usually that’s a good thing, but sometimes it’s a bad thing. Nothing will change that – it is inherent human nature.

 

My advice is to completely ignore the arrogant, pretentious and condescending braggers and whiners, and to simply enjoy the game in ANY guideline-compliant way in which you find enjoyment -- as long as you respect the rights of landowners, fellow cachers, etc., which I'm sure you already do.

 

Those snobs are no better than you. (Whether they even deserve to be called your equal is debatable.) They are a loud and vocal minority, but the good news is the 'minority' part.

 

Don’t let 'em bother you.

[Mr.Yuck]

Yeah, there are some "cache snobs" but you'll find such people in any group.

 

As for the old-timers saying "don't go after micros", I disagree that they are always the snobs.

 

I'm relatively new to the sport myself, but lately have been spending a lot of time in the forums reading up on some history. I used to think it was arrogant and rude for some to complain about the micros, but I must admit that now I see their point. This game has become diluted from what it was when they started, and they are just up front about what it is that they like about caching. When it comes down to it, that what I like about caching, too. I'm just also ok with the micros, probably because that's what the game had become when I started.

 

So I say reserve judgment and read and absorb more. You might learn something. After getting some perspective, I will a) never plant a LPC, never plant a guardrail micro, and c) will now make a better effort on cache hides to ensure it's not so lame.

 

I've often wondered if I'd share your sentiments if I just stumbled on the game last year, and 12 of the first 20 caches when I enter my zip code are parking lot micros (which they are). To heck with that, of course I would.

 

Hey, in your last paragraph you got caught with the forum software turning the old b parenthesis bullet point into a smiley. I hate when that happens.

[+nelson crew]

I've often wondered if I'd share your sentiments if I just stumbled on the game last year, and 12 of the first 20 caches when I enter my zip code are parking lot micros (which they are). To heck with that, of course I would.

Wow, that sucks. Around my area the LPCs aren't nearly that bad. Probably because there are some of us who won't contribute

 

Hey, in your last paragraph you got caught with the forum software turning the old b parenthesis bullet point into a smiley. I hate when that happens.

 

Lucky for me you were able to figure it out

 

And I didn't mean, in my original post, to sound like I think of the games beginning as some sort of caching Eden. But frankly, I believe it has become diluted. I believe the quoted scenario of 12 of 20 hides being LPCs backs that up. I think the point I was trying (and failing) to drive home was that the OP could maybe read some of the history and be more cognizant about placing better hides.

[+Buggheart]

Then... Then there are those "old-school" cachers who have seen it all, done it all, and found it all. They tell newbies to avoid micros, and go for those large caches in fields as opposed to those camo'd caches smaller than my pinky finger hidden in plain sight. Every log they post mentions how many they found in a certain day, and how easy it was to find the cache. Everything is quick or easy, and is X of Y caches in a day in some area.

 

Are we not all out to have fun and find things that most don't see? Is the point to win? Is it to be better or have more finds? If so, I misunderstood the premise and misunderstand the point. I'm all for people wanting to be the first to find a cache and those who write great stories about their finds, even if the story was in the journey not the find. What I am not for is the braggadocio, and empty pretension that seems to poke its ugly head up on the logs. Most is passive arrogance, but it's there. I've gathered a good idea (in my TWENTY DAYS of caching... don't come after me), who falls where... At least of those in my area that have... notoriety....

 

Comments?

There is no shortage of snobs who love to crow about their superior experience and to lecture about how their version of geocaching is really the only 'proper' way to participate, while simultaneously and condescendingly whining about not being adequately entertained by every cache hide that receives the privilege of their attention.

 

I believe such attitudes almost always spring from an abnormal level of insecurity on their part, but that's just my theory.

 

Geocaching attitudes tend to mirror the attitudes of the general population. Usually that’s a good thing, but sometimes it’s a bad thing. Nothing will change that – it is inherent human nature.

 

My advice is to completely ignore the arrogant, pretentious and condescending braggers and whiners, and to simply enjoy the game in ANY guideline-compliant way in which you find enjoyment -- as long as you respect the rights of landowners, fellow cachers, etc., which I'm sure you already do.

 

Those snobs are no better than you. (Whether they even deserve to be called your equal is debatable.) They are a loud and vocal minority, but the good news is the 'minority' part.

 

Don’t let 'em bother you.

 

Yeah. What he said.

[Mushtang]

Then... Then there are those "old-school" cachers who have seen it all, done it all, and found it all. They tell newbies to avoid micros, and go for those large caches in fields as opposed to those camo'd caches smaller than my pinky finger hidden in plain sight. Every log they post mentions how many they found in a certain day, and how easy it was to find the cache. Everything is quick or easy, and is X of Y caches in a day in some area.

 

Are we not all out to have fun and find things that most don't see? Is the point to win? Is it to be better or have more finds? If so, I misunderstood the premise and misunderstand the point. I'm all for people wanting to be the first to find a cache and those who write great stories about their finds, even if the story was in the journey not the find. What I am not for is the braggadocio, and empty pretension that seems to poke its ugly head up on the logs. Most is passive arrogance, but it's there. I've gathered a good idea (in my TWENTY DAYS of caching... don't come after me), who falls where... At least of those in my area that have... notoriety....

 

Comments?

There is no shortage of snobs who love to crow about their superior experience and to lecture about how their version of geocaching is really the only 'proper' way to participate, while simultaneously and condescendingly whining about not being adequately entertained by every cache hide that receives the privilege of their attention.

 

I believe such attitudes almost always spring from an abnormal level of insecurity on their part, but that's just my theory.

 

Geocaching attitudes tend to mirror the attitudes of the general population. Usually that’s a good thing, but sometimes it’s a bad thing. Nothing will change that – it is inherent human nature.

 

My advice is to completely ignore the arrogant, pretentious and condescending braggers and whiners, and to simply enjoy the game in ANY guideline-compliant way in which you find enjoyment -- as long as you respect the rights of landowners, fellow cachers, etc., which I'm sure you already do.

 

Those snobs are no better than you. (Whether they even deserve to be called your equal is debatable.) They are a loud and vocal minority, but the good news is the 'minority' part.

 

Don’t let 'em bother you.

Yeah. What he said.

Yeah. What she said.

[+Team GeoBlast]

There are some absolutely amazing people, Geocaches hunts, and incredible experiences that you will be exposed to through Geocaching. They are worth every bit of filtering effort you have to make. But understand that there will be filtering needed.

 

My advice is to do your best to accept that there are many ways to play the game and there are some that you may decide are not for you. Soon you will have a pretty good idea how you like to play and do your best to focus your energy on enjoying it to the fullest in that way.

 

Accept that this is your own personal taste and that it unique to you. Excluding the observation of best practices, pay as little attention as possible to the way others choose to play unless it effects you personally and you will enjoy Geocaching for a long time.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team GeoBlast]

But mostly forgive those who double post.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Team GeoBlast

[+TrailGators]

There are some absolutely amazing people, Geocaches hunts, and incredible experiences that you will be exposed to through Geocaching. They are worth every bit of filtering effort you have to make. But understand that there will be filtering needed.

 

My advice is to do your best to accept that there are many ways to play the game and there are some that you may decide are not for you. Soon you will have a pretty good idea how you like to play and do your best to focus your energy on enjoying it to the fullest in that way.

 

Accept that this is your own personal taste and that it unique to you. Excluding the observation of best practices, pay as little attention as possible to the way others choose to play unless it effects you personally and you will enjoy Geocaching for a long time.

Nice response TGB! The game is about finding what you enjoy. As you said that starts with research and filtering. If you can get recommendations then you can probably skip the filtering on those. I have very rarely run across recommendations that I have not enjoyed. Unlike some posters in this thread, I don't feel the need to make derogatory comments about anybody. 99% of the people I have met in this game are very cool! The other 1%, I am filtering out...

[Skippermark]

I'm in the North Bay, and while I've got less than 40 caches found at this point, I have already started to notice trends in the logs and based on those, and a couple of the private messages I've received, I have decided that the number of d**ch*bags that cache (at least in my area) is higher than I would have expected.

I met several cachers from your area while attending GeoWoodstock 6 and found everyone to be friendly and outgoing, willing to help out and make caching more fun for everyone. With the occasional rare exception, I find the caching community to be one of the most open and friendly group of folks out there.

 

I've asked people I've never met before about certain caches while planning vacation trips, and folks have given me their phone number (having never talked to me before) and said to call them when I'm in the area and maybe we can do some caches together. We wanted to do a night cache in another state that hadn't been found in over a year, so we posted a note to the cache page saying we were planning on doing it on a certain date and time and would be at the trailhead if anyone wanted to join us. 25 people showed up and we had an awesome time and went out and did a bunch of others afterward. I don't know many hobbies where people are that friendly.

 

Then... Then there are those "old-school" cachers who have seen it all, done it all, and found it all. They tell newbies to avoid micros, and go for those large caches in fields as opposed to those camo'd caches smaller than my pinky finger hidden in plain sight. Every log they post mentions how many they found in a certain day, and how easy it was to find the cache. Everything is quick or easy, and is X of Y caches in a day in some area.

I think you'll find the majority of people don't care what type of caches other people find. No matter what it is (work, a hobby, living in a condo association), there's always a small vocal group who likes to speak loud and spread their opinion around. I pretty much ignore what people say (either way in the micro argument) and cache the way I want and find what I enjoy. I'm caching for myself (and my family) and not to worry about what others think.

 

Many people say how many they did during the day. One fellow I know lists which overall find number it was and then which find number it was for that individual state. Not to brag but to keep track of them.

 

A lot of finds doesn't mean someone is a good cacher, but it's only natural that they may have an easier time because they've seen a lot of different things. If someone has seen a certain style of hide a lot, they will look for that style when they are in certain areas, whereas someone who has never seen one like it may not see it right away. If they truly found the cache quickly, I don't think they should lie and say they spent a lot of time looking.

 

Are we not all out to have fun and find things that most don't see? Is the point to win? Is it to be better or have more finds?

I'm not what you mean when you say to win. There's nothing to win. For some people, it's about the number of finds they have, which is perfectly okay. There's nothing wrong with that. Caching is whatever each individual wants to make it. For some it's about numbers. For others, it's about making friendships and for others it's about hiking and getting exercise...

 

My point? There doesn't seem to be a lot of "calling out" in the geocaching community. Granted, cache logs aren't the place for dialogue, but... where is the place?

I'm not sure you mean by "calling out." Are you wanting to point out people who play the game a certain way? Wouldn't it be better to embrace everyone, and see all the different reasons why people participate since there's no right or wrong way to play?

 

Again, I am new to this. I don't see a lot of traffic on this board and don't expect a deluge of responses, but I have to ask... Am I alone in feeling that the local community of geocaching is split between those who want to help and encourage and those who want to belittle others while singing their own praises?

I can only speak from personal experience, and I don't see this. If there are any "bad" folks like that, they don't choose to participate in any of our local events or other activities in our caching community.

 

Those of you that think you are better than other cachers because you have more finds, make your finds more quickly, or have cached in more places? Stop it. Tell someone you know who doesn't cache or know about geocaching how awesome you are and see if they care. They won't. They shouldn't.

I'm guessing that someone who doesn't cache really doesn't care what any of us do, just as a non-football lover probably doesn't want to hear anything about what happened with football over the weekend.

 

Personally, I enjoy seeing where people have cached and how many finds they have. That's part of the whole history of the cache. I enjoy knowing how long it took someone to find it. There are some hard caches (and some easy ones too) where I've spent a lot of time at and had to go back several times before I found it, and then I'll be tagging along with someone who's looking for it for the first time, and they walk right up to it. I like knowing stuff like that. It's cool to see how others are doing. Plus, I'd like to tag along with someone like to watch them and see how they go about finding caches so that I could learn from them and maybe get better.

 

Edited for typos

Edited October 27, 2008 by Skippermark

[+JerseyGirl & Bruno]

Re-reading your post I'm guessing that you've never actually met other cachers, and that you're basing your opinions solely on what you've read in logs.

 

If that's true, let me encourage you to head out to the nearest event that's being held in your area. That's where you'll be able to meet other cachers, swap stories and make friends.

 

I spent last weekend at a 4-day series of events in the Osceola National Forest. I got to see old friends and make new ones. There were cachers there with over 16,000 finds, and brand new cachers with only a few. People came from all around the state and we had guests from Michigan, and even Alaska.

 

Don't let the forums become your only interaction with the geocaching community - and it is a community. Events are all about the 3 F's: Food, Fellowship & Finds. Events are the reason geocaching the hobby turns into geocaching the addiction.

[Clan Riffster]

I will a ) never plant a LPC, B ) never plant a guardrail micro, and c ) will now make a better effort on cache hides to ensure it's not so lame.

I thank you and Spokane thanks you!

 

Geocaching is a sport that depends on the generosity, honesty and good will of others, so it tends to attract generous, honest and decent people.

I'll have to side with BrianSnat on this one. I've met a few hundred cachers in person, and to date, I haven't met a single one that I didn't like. I'm sure there are a few goobers hidden amongst the masses, but my experience tells me the percentage is abnormally low, as compared to the overall population.

[BlueDamsel]

I've said it before, I'll say it again... I think life is what you make it. The whiners and complainers will always find something to whine and complain about, because that's their style, while those of us who choose to see the positives, will always see them, no matter what cache type we're hunting.

 

I cache for me and me alone, and since I'm the only one I have to satisfy, I do pretty good at it because I try to see the fun in every cache... EVEN the "it's-so-beneath-me" lamp post cache. Heck, half those LPCs have been around a coffee shop or store I didn't know existed, that I thought might come in handy next time I need the particular product they're selling. Plus, if you're into people-watching, muggle avoidance in a crowded parking lot will give you a lot of it...highly entertaining! And some of my most challenging finds have been LPCs that I had to fiddle and finagle for quite a good long time to avoid being seen by a muggle.

 

Geez, people, try to look at the positives! Are you in this for fun, or not?

 

I like it all... lamp post micros, camo-painted ammo cans, tupperware in a tree, film canisters, lip balm containers, pine cone seed caches, fake rocks, birdhouses, electrical boxes, you name it. Bring it on. Hey, at least it gets me out of doors and away from the boob tube, and that in itself is worth the journey to find whatever it is.

 

Another two cents brought to you by -

BlueDamsel

Edited October 27, 2008 by BlueDamsel

[+DanOCan]

I have met lots of people who fall into group number 1 (old timers) and group 2 (silent). Fortunately, I have only met a few people who fall into Group 3. The attitude seems to be "Look at my numbers, I am such a great cacher, bow before me." I don't waste my time on such attitudes because, as it says under my avatar -- "The only numbers that matter to me are my own."

[diddypants]

Thanks for all the responses folks! I just wanted to add a few things to my original post.

 

I most definitely think that it is what you make it, and the number of emails I've gotten have been overwhelmingly positive.

 

Also, I didn't mean to knock those who care about numbers. That's what the game is for them. I think the clash is in those who could care less about numbers, and those that seem to... care a lot.

 

Like I said, I'm new here. The cachers I have met (in person) have been wonderful. I think I just wanted to explore the ideas of how we all look at geocaching, and the best way for me to enter that conversation was to criticize a part of it to evoke dialogue.

 

So... that's that. Thanks all!

 

And reading this has been quite educational so... carry on please!

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'm a newbie. I'll say it and I'll wear it.

 

I've gathered that there isn't too much action on this board, but I thought I might try to start a conversation based on something that I've noticed (a little) that is not so much mentioned or acknowledged.

 

I'm in the North Bay, and while I've got less than 40 caches found at this point, I have already started to notice trends in the logs and based on those, and a couple of the private messages I've received, I have decided that the number of d**ch*bags that cache (at least in my area) is higher than I would have expected.

Comments?

 

While I might think unkindly things about certain cachers, I would certainly not call them THAT in a family friendly forum. Certainly not a good starting point, and shows an unfriendly attitude.

Most geocachers are great people! Some aren't. Some are braggadicios. Most aren't. You are certainly free to ignore anyone that you do not like. But watch the language!

[+J-Way]

I like to think I'm a pleasant person, and I get along with most people I meet. I'm always polite in person.

 

There are a few local cache hiders whose caches I generally avoid. The easy ones are typically leaky micros - GRCs or LPCs; the hard ones are leaky micros placed in crowded areas to raise the difficulty level. I made a few snarky comments in online logs when I was just starting off. At the time I thought all caches should be ammo cans or lock-n-locks in the woods down a nice trail, and I expressed these opinions.

 

I like to think I've grown a bit since then. I still definitely prefer the ammo can hides, but I occcasionally hunt micros and smalls in urban area.

 

I met some of these cachers in person at events and CITOs, and they were all great people. One of my snarky logs was on the first cache hidden by a 10-year-old girl (I didn't know this at the time I wrote the log); she was quite proud of this cache, and even asked me if I'd found it when I met her at an event. I told her I had, and I felt like a s**t when I remembered what I'd written.

 

I went back and editied the snarkyness out of ALL my old logs. I still usually do not hunt caches hidden by certain locals because I've seen the underside of enough lamp post skirts and the back side of enough guard rails. But other people enjoy those hides, so they're welcome to them. Snarkiness is not in my true personallity, and I try to keep it out of my online personality (not always successfully)

 

Lesson here? Ignore the rude comments and go meet people in person.

[BlueDamsel]

I like to think I'm a pleasant person, and I get along with most people I meet. I'm always polite in person.

 

There are a few local cache hiders whose caches I generally avoid. The easy ones are typically leaky micros - GRCs or LPCs; the hard ones are leaky micros placed in crowded areas to raise the difficulty level. I made a few snarky comments in online logs when I was just starting off. At the time I thought all caches should be ammo cans or lock-n-locks in the woods down a nice trail, and I expressed these opinions.

 

I like to think I've grown a bit since then. I still definitely prefer the ammo can hides, but I occcasionally hunt micros and smalls in urban area.

 

I met some of these cachers in person at events and CITOs, and they were all great people. One of my snarky logs was on the first cache hidden by a 10-year-old girl (I didn't know this at the time I wrote the log); she was quite proud of this cache, and even asked me if I'd found it when I met her at an event. I told her I had, and I felt like a s**t when I remembered what I'd written.

 

I went back and editied the snarkyness out of ALL my old logs. I still usually do not hunt caches hidden by certain locals because I've seen the underside of enough lamp post skirts and the back side of enough guard rails. But other people enjoy those hides, so they're welcome to them. Snarkiness is not in my true personallity, and I try to keep it out of my online personality (not always successfully)

 

Lesson here? Ignore the rude comments and go meet people in person.

 

I agree with this post! And I try to avoid snarkiness in my logs just for the reasons you mention here. We don't ever know who put the cache out, and for what reason. Maybe it's laziness on a bad cache, but, then, maybe it's someone just getting their caching wings who thought it was pretty clever! And I'd never want to rip someone like that down... ever.

 

Sucking other people's enjoyment out of something they might find perfectly fun is not my style. But then, I already said that I like pretty much every cache I go after, for different reasons, so there's almost never a good reason to be snarky.

 

And even if I hated the cache, I'd probably email the cache owner privately about it, with some helpful comments, without complaining.

 

BlueDamsel

Edited October 27, 2008 by BlueDamsel

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

When TAR posts he'll probably say something about the best and worst aspects of geocaching is that everyone can do it.

 

I guess I am pretty predictable! Yes, TAR's Mantra does apply here.

 

I have been watching this thread since it posted this morning and told myself I wouldn't respond.

 

Fortunately, the vast majority of responses said what I would have!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh what the heck: The best part about geocaching is that it is open to everyone. The worst part about geocaching is... that it's open to everyone!

[+Don_J]

We wanted to do a night cache in another state that hadn't been found in over a year, so we posted a note to the cache page saying we were planning on doing it on a certain date and time and would be at the trailhead if anyone wanted to join us. 25 people showed up and we had an awesome time and went out and did a bunch of others afterward. I don't know many hobbies where people are that friendly.

 

 

That is a GREAT story. I wonder, out of the 25, how many had already found the cache, yet showed up to have a good time and be helpful?

 

I seem to be that type of cacher, and I always seem to end in a group of like minded cachers.

[rogheff]

Three categories huh? I wonder into which I fall. I have somewhere around 1000 finds, about 300 hides, and have enjoyed each and every one. I can't find a container sitting right in front of my face half the time and need to bring in reinforcements on a regular basis.

 

I have a big group of geofriends who have brought much joy into my life and I have the privelage of meeting with them on a weekly basis. I love meeting geocachers on the trails - it's exciting to play the muggle role.

 

I'm wondering if I've ever posted the cache number per day in my logs. Probably, if I was going on a large cache run. I haven't done that many times, and now prefer to find one or two and simply post a nice log.

 

I like to hide them more than I like to find them.

[Skippermark]

We wanted to do a night cache in another state that hadn't been found in over a year, so we posted a note to the cache page saying we were planning on doing it on a certain date and time and would be at the trailhead if anyone wanted to join us. 25 people showed up and we had an awesome time and went out and did a bunch of others afterward. I don't know many hobbies where people are that friendly.

 

 

That is a GREAT story. I wonder, out of the 25, how many had already found the cache, yet showed up to have a good time and be helpful?

 

I seem to be that type of cacher, and I always seem to end in a group of like minded cachers.

There was 7 or 8 that showed up had already found it. What was neat was that a lot of the local cachers said they had been wanting to do it but were nervous because it hadn't been found in so long. They didn't want to make the trek and find it missing, but with a group, they thought it sounded fun. It ended up being an easy going, chat and have fun type of cache experience. There was no race to find it first or anything, just walk along, talking about different things, mostly caching related. What was funny was that one family of cachers actually lived about 15 miles from us and had recently moved away. They weren't cachers when they lived nearby. We still stay in contact with some of the cachers we met that night.

 

Like you, I think it's fun to tag along if you've done a cache as others find it. A group is going out to do another night cache this weekend (it's a scary Halloween type cache), and some who've already found it are tagging along just for the fun of it.

[+tpatjones841]

You're right - there are all kinds...And by reading the replies to your topic - it is plain to see that...I will say that the easiest way to weed out the cachers within your area with which you may not have all that much in common, is to attend a caching event...I went to one earlier this year and found many friendly cachers (old and new)! However, this caveat... I also found (although some DID ring true) that most of my preconceived ideas of what some cachers were like - were actually 180 degrees off.

There is a great deal about caching that I like and enjoy - and like everything else in life - some aspects that I do not care for...Some Hiders seem to find some sort of revenge for prior disappointments or challenges by hiding things that are at best impossible to find. I've found that there are some hider's caches that I automatically discount while I seek others out because of their inherent fairness to the game.

I like to challenge myself to reach certain goals - whether it be for finds in one go - or my personal goal to reach #365 by the first anniversary of my first find. But I can't be caught up in competing with others whom I do not know - that just cheapens the game for me...

Good luck and Happy Caching!

[diddypants]

First. If my language was offensive? Apologies. I didn't think about the fact that young folk might be on this board.

 

Second. I mentioned this before, but I think I sounded like a bitter new kid in my initial post. In posting my take, I wanted to... in a round about way... encourage all the positive parts of geocaching, while acknowledging what I (as a newbie) saw as possibly being... off-putting to new people like myself.

 

So. I've found this community to be EXTREMELY helpful and kind, and I didn't mean to be that guy who walks into a bar full of regulars and tell them why their bar sucks. Not the best example, I know.

 

What I WANTED to do, was point out some interesting things I had noticed about the nature of those who geocache, how differently people can and do approach it, and... some of my first impressions as someone new to this.

 

Maybe I wanted to stir a pot. I didn't mean any harm.

Edited October 29, 2008 by diddypants

[Mr.Yuck]

First. If my language was offensive? Apologies. I didn't think about the fact that young folk might be on this board.

 

Second. I mentioned this before, but I think I sounded like a bitter new kid in my initial post. In posting my take, I wanted to... in a round about way... encourage all the positive parts of geocaching, while acknowledging what I (as a newbie) saw as possibly being... off-putting to new people like myself.

 

So. I've found this community to be EXTREMELY helpful and kind, and I didn't mean to be that guy who walks into a bar full of regulars and tell them why their bar sucks. Not the best example, I know.

 

What I WANTED to do, was point out some interesting things I had noticed about the nature of those who geocache, how differently people can and do approach it, and... some of my first impressions as someone new to this.

 

Maybe I wanted to stir a pot. I didn't mean any harm.

 

Yeah, but you didn't even walk into the bar (meet any of these people)! You're talking about all words you've seen on a computer screen. Sounds kind of sit at home and gossipy to me, to be honest.

 

That's OK, your post certainly brought out the best in KBI, and convinced me there's no sense in having a "debate" with him anymore.

[+Mudfrog]

Then... Then there are those "old-school" cachers who have seen it all, done it all, and found it all. They tell newbies to avoid micros, and go for those large caches in fields as opposed to those camo'd caches smaller than my pinky finger hidden in plain sight. Every log they post mentions how many they found in a certain day, and how easy it was to find the cache. Everything is quick or easy, and is X of Y caches in a day in some area.

 

Are we not all out to have fun and find things that most don't see? Is the point to win? Is it to be better or have more finds? If so, I misunderstood the premise and misunderstand the point. I'm all for people wanting to be the first to find a cache and those who write great stories about their finds, even if the story was in the journey not the find. What I am not for is the braggadocio, and empty pretension that seems to poke its ugly head up on the logs. Most is passive arrogance, but it's there. I've gathered a good idea (in my TWENTY DAYS of caching... don't come after me), who falls where... At least of those in my area that have... notoriety....

 

Comments?

There is no shortage of snobs who love to crow about their superior experience and to lecture about how their version of geocaching is really the only 'proper' way to participate, while simultaneously and condescendingly whining about not being adequately entertained by every cache hide that receives the privilege of their attention.

 

I believe such attitudes almost always spring from an abnormal level of insecurity on their part, but that's just my theory.

 

Geocaching attitudes tend to mirror the attitudes of the general population. Usually that’s a good thing, but sometimes it’s a bad thing. Nothing will change that – it is inherent human nature.

 

My advice is to completely ignore the arrogant, pretentious and condescending braggers and whiners, and to simply enjoy the game in ANY guideline-compliant way in which you find enjoyment -- as long as you respect the rights of landowners, fellow cachers, etc., which I'm sure you already do.

 

Those snobs are no better than you. (Whether they even deserve to be called your equal is debatable.) They are a loud and vocal minority, but the good news is the 'minority' part.

 

Don’t let 'em bother you.

 

Good post KBI, except i have to disagree with that very first line. Maybe it is a regional thing but from what i've seen in my 6+ years of caching around Texas and Louisiana, thankfully there IS a shortage of snobs and braggerts.

 

To the OP, there may be some bragging going on but i have to agree with others that you may be just reading more into people's logs (talking about cache logs) than there really is. None of the examples you posted sound like bragging to me. Of course, there will be a few times when we all come across something that bugs us and for the most part, it's best to just get on by it and head towards what we find to be fun for ourselves.

[+briansnat]

Yeah, but you didn't even walk into the bar (meet any of these people)! You're talking about all words you've seen on a computer screen.

 

Words on a screen can be very misleading. What appears to be bragging or whining might simply be a candid account of the hunt. What may seem snarky might be someone's attempt at humor. What was meant to be helpful, might be taken as an insult.

 

Words on a screen often don't show the author's personality, frame of mind or intent. You don't see the smile on his face, or twinkle in his eye as he types something meant to be taken as humorous. You don't hear the tone of his voice as he earnestly tries to be helpful.

 

Some readers automatically assume the best and other automatically assume the worst. It all depends on how their brain filters what is read.

[+TrailGators]

Yeah, but you didn't even walk into the bar (meet any of these people)! You're talking about all words you've seen on a computer screen.

 

Words on a screen can be very misleading. What appears to be bragging or whining might simply be a candid account of the hunt. What may seem snarky might be someone's attempt at humor. What was meant to be helpful, might be taken as an insult.

 

Words on a screen often don't show the author's personality, frame of mind or intent. You don't see the smile on his face, or twinkle in his eye as he types something meant to be taken as humorous. You don't hear the tone of his voice as he earnestly tries to be helpful.

 

Some readers automatically assume the best and other automatically assume the worst. It all depends on how their brain filters what is read.

 

 

This is exactly right. The more you post in here the more that you will realize this.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Good post KBI, except i have to disagree with that very first line. Maybe it is a regional thing but from what i've seen in my 6+ years of caching around Texas and Louisiana, thankfully there IS a shortage of snobs and braggerts.

 

To the OP, there may be some bragging going on but i have to agree with others that you may be just reading more into people's logs (talking about cache logs) than there really is. None of the examples you posted sound like bragging to me. Of course, there will be a few times when we all come across something that bugs us and for the most part, it's best to just get on by it and head towards what we find to be fun for ourselves.

Ditto.

 

In 6+ years I have cached in 28 states, attended 224 events and hosted maybe 25.

 

Here are some numbers that are the most important to me:

 

I have met literally thousands of cachers in person and made friends over the years with well over 100, and have yet to meet anyone who could be described as a snob.

 

I know none who cache for the numbers. I do know some who fashion their cache hunts to get as many as is possible, but that's not why they cache. There's a huge difference. I once spent 24 hours in a van with 7 others trying to set a world record find count, but for the next week we hunted interesting caches at a leisurely pace. It can be about the numbers one day and quality time the next, but having fun is always the driving motivation. Since there is no recognized thing as a world record we did it for the fun of it, not the numbers... in fact I didn't log a single one of the record run attempt caches and I don't think that my teammates did either. Another team topped our find count the next year, but you won't hear them bragging about it or claiming that it makes them the 'best' cachers!

 

I know many of the most recognizable names in the game and have cached with some of the world's top 'numbers' cachers, and with cachers who have been in the game for years who have not yet found 100 caches. Unless you look up their stats online you usually cannot tell the difference. At events I have often cached with folks with thousands of finds and absolute newbies in the same car and have never heard anyone convey in any way that 3000 makes anyone any more of a geocacher than 30. The more recognizable names and highest finders do tend to draw an entourage, but it's not something that they seek... some folks just want to be seen with the 'famous'. Jeremy, Brian, Hydee, CCCooper, Mtn-Man, Moun10Bike, Lep and the other 'names' that everyone knows just want to enjoy geocaching and leave the game better than they found it. Despite being amongst the high-profile cachers if you ever meet them on the trail you can't distinguish them from any other cacher... bragging and ego are just not a large part of the game.

 

I have met a very few cachers to whom I would apply other not-so-flattering names, but none whom I would call a braggart!

 

In over half a decade I have belonged to quite a number of groups of one nature or another... Christian, Scouts, Military, Professional associations, Ham radio clubs, Freemasonry, Charitable foundations and Disaster Relief organizations to name but a few, and am constantly amazed at the fact that geocachers overall are better behaved, more accepting, less territorial and less socially political than all of the others! That's a strong statement, but in my experience not an exaggeration. In person, anyway... the forums are a different story! Even then the most acerbic and critical of forum posters usually turn out to be decent people once you get to know them!

 

Some folks have said that we geocachers as a whole reflect the makeup of society, with the same ratio of good to bad actors. I do not believe that. My experience is that geocaching, for whatever reason, draws a much higher ratio of good than bad actors. I enjoy and support the other groups that I belong to, but recognize that several of the ones I listed above are overwhelmingly among the most racist, elitist and exclusionary groups in the world. I see very little of that behavior in geocachers.

 

Your mileage may vary locally, but I seriously doubt that it will in the big picture.

 

This is not to say that all of geocaching is sweetness and light, but overall it's a very comfortable environment for me.

[+Sford13]

I am a fairly new cacher myself. I would have to agree with alot of what has been said. When I started out I would put which number that cache was out of my total. Have stopped the practice since I got to thinking that it really serves no purpose. There was a day that I did 6 caches at a Wildlife Park and did put 1 out of 6 and so on. Not so much to brag about the fact that I got six but to leave a log of the trail(order) that I got them in.

 

Then because my area does not have alot of caches I have found that the game has turned from a seeking to a hiding game for me. And I have found that the logs to my caches seem to alot of times reflect the amount of effort I put into hiding them. Some of them are what I would call easy PnG's and usually have shorter logs on them. Then there are the larger more remote caches that seem to get the longer and more descriptive logs posted to them. So I think that it is not always the attitude of the logger as much as the effort of the hide that comes thru on some of the post.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Sford13