So confused! Are these logs misplaced?

[Sean's Mom]

I was using the Scaredy Cat map to find benchmarks from my home to my cabin. I've been pulling up the pages one-by-one to make sure they're in safe places for me to try and find, and one had a lot of log entries: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=GT0127

 

Now, Morro Rock is nowhere near lookout point. Lookout point is on the way to Mineral King in Sequpoia Nat'l Park. The park road is hardly used, and mainly used by cabin owners and hikers. There is a Visitors Center in Minerak King valley, but not at Lookout Point.

 

Are these just numerous mistaken logs?

[Wintertime]

Hi, "Sean's Mom."

 

Hmmm, you're right--Moro Rock is about eight miles north of GT0127. I think you're right that people have been logging the wrong mark. Although with all the marks along Mineral King Road, I don't know why they all landed on GT0127!

 

I checked on whether MORO RESET 1991 is in the current NGS database, but a search in a five-mile radius around Moro Rock didn't turn up anything.

 

Perhaps you can find the real benchmark at the Lookout Point ranger station and show people what GT0127 really looks like! Since you know the area, you could even post a note right now pointing out that GT0127 was monumented sometime before 1940, not in 1991, and is/was at the ranger station, not atop Moro Rock. You could even attempt to educate geocachers that many marks simply aren't in the NGS database and thus aren't listed on Geocaching.com. It's worth a try, anyway. :-)

 

Patty

[Sean's Mom]

Thanks Patty! For some reason, it doesn't seem 8 miles away. Hahaha. To get from the highway to Lookout Point takes about 30-45 minutes. So, from LP to the Rock would take quite a while.

 

I did post a note prior to seeing your comment, but good catch on the date difference. I knew that not all marks are in the GC database, and didn't even think to mention that.

[Difficult Run]

This looks like a real easy find, especially since it is only 20 feet sw of the ranger station.

You're going to be looking for a mark like these: (all two inch diameter disks)

4041 K NPS

 

USDI - NPS 38-847

 

USDI - NPS 38-500

 

Let us know what you find,

~ Mitch ~

[Sean's Mom]

Mitch -

 

Thanks for the pics. I'd only found one USDI - NPS disk so far, and that was completely by accident. I even have a picture of it, but didn't note the location. lol.

 

But, with this one, since LP is now clearly marked "Private Residence", I'm not sure if I'll be able to get to it. We'll see. Hopefully I can get out there tomorrow.

 

So, anyone know if anything should be done about the misplaced logs?

 

- Erin

[AZcachemeister]

 

So, anyone know if anything should be done about the misplaced logs?

 

- Erin

 

Since there is nobody (other than the log writer) to delete the incorrect logs, probably nothing that CAN be done.

You could try to contact those who wrote them, but most won't respond, and the rest will try to argue with you, or be insulted that you could insinuate that they might be mistaken.

SOMETIMES you will stumble upon a reasonable soul, and they will thank you for pointing out the error.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Hi Sean's Mom -

 

There's really nothing we can do about those incorrect logs. Writing a note like you did is really the best thing. Sometimes people read it and learn, as you can see below....

 

Check out MT WASH; 115 incorrect finds and counting....

[Wintertime]

Erin, I'm afraid that folks are correct when they say that you've probably done all you can to educate people about GT0127. As a Mineral King landowner, perhaps you know the rangers who live at the station--or at least would have good reason to introduce yourself!--and could ask to look for the actual mark.

 

When my blood pressure is low and I want to raise it, I check the Geocaching.com page for HT1627 to see how many more people have logged it found, even though the datasheet says it's in the no-longer-existent base of a no-longer-existent flagpole of a no-longer-existent high school. What they're logging is a reset in a sidewalk that isn't even where the high school was located. As you can see by the logs for that one and the one that BDT mentioned, people are happily ignoring the facts provided by more careful geocachers, and are logging whatever circular metal thingy they find. Although usually the wrong marks are closer than the 8-10 miles of your Moro Rock situation.

 

Patty

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Howdy Erin,

 

You might just ask a Ranger if it would be OK to look for the survey disk so you might get a picture and post on-line the condition of this particular mark.

 

We did just that for Angel that was "LOCATED AT U.S. NATIONAL PARK SERVICE NORTH RIM HEADQUARTERS, ABOUT 400 FT SE. OF HEADQUARTERS BLDG." Ranger Bob went with us to find the mark since he did not even know that a benchmark was there. He told us about the mark at "Bright Angel Point" that all of the tourists were taking pictures of (that is the one people were logging). He was really enjoying the hunt and then seeing the disk that John uncovered and the Triangle blaze that I spotted.

 

It actually seems to work when you include in your log about how the previous logs were of some other mark - we tried to be kind about it and did not e-mail anyone. And then include enough pictures for others to see. There has been just one other person to log the "Correct" mark since we logged and it is indeed the correct disk! No other logs this season and the snows will start soon, closing the North Rim of the Grand Canyon to tourists once again.

 

Good luck on your endeavours and have tons of fun!

 

Shirley~

[+seventhings]

Sean's Mom -

 

There are a number of benchmarks out there that have been incorrectly found by a large number of people. Sometimes the wrong thing is found (as in the case you describe), and sometimes a mark that is unfindable by conventional methods (because it has been paved over, for example) is found because people get to the general vicinity and figure "Hey, that's good enough!". I don't think I've ever seen an eight-mile miss on a mark with adjusted horizontal coordinates, though. That's got to be a new record.

 

What can you do about it? For all intents and purposes, nothing beyond what you've already done. If you recognize an incorrect find as an isolated error by one of the benchmark hunting regulars, you should send him or her an e-mail. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, you'll get a prompt "thank you" and the error will be corrected in short order. I've sent a few such e-mails and gotten a few, as well.

 

However, if the error was made by a Geocache-centric benchmark hunter of opportunity, it's not likely that your efforts to correct the record will meet with any success. If I don't recognize the names of the people who logged the unrighteous find, I'll make an appropriate log, but I won't send an e-mail to the perps.

 

Will

[+Harry Dolphin]

I can think of a few that have been logged wrong many times. LY2611 with 70 wrong logs. The station, if it still exists, is under the parking lot. Several notes pointing out that the RM is not the benchmark. Doesn't stop anyone.

Only 32 finds on this one: KU3601. If the disk exists, it's under the flooring of the observation deck of the Empire State Building. Nope. That plaque is not the disk. Several notes stating this. (Yes. This has been discussed before.)

The fact is that most geocachers do not understand benchmarking well enough to understand what they are looking for, and, more to the point, they just do not care.

I can think of a lot of others, but not as egregious. Yes. That's a nice witness post, but it's not the disk. Nice photo of the guy wire anchor for the old telephone pole. But it is not the steel rod with disk. Sorry, but the RM is not the triangulation station. E-mailed that to a friend of my brother. Response was: Like I care?

Find the right one. Post a note. And don't worry about it. Most geocachers don't care.

Sorry. I'm cynical by nature. Your job is to find benchmarks, and log them. Or log DNFs. And have fun.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

I would just have to make a visit to see for myself.

Confusus When confused visit site.

 

It would be another great adventure if I lived closer.

If you ask like many have stated it is usually rather easy.

[Wintertime]

I can think of a few that have been logged wrong many times. LY2611 with 70 wrong logs. ...

Only 32 finds on this one: KU3601. ...

I can think of a lot of others, but not as egregious.

Try TU1337. More than 150 incorrect logs so far. Some people, judging by their photos, mistook a reference mark for the station. More people mistook a reset mark for it.

 

One person has done yeoman's work not only by repeatedly posting, "No, that isn't it" notes, but also by calling the state surveyor's office and having them determine whether the reset could be used as the original station. They submitted their analysis to the NGS. (Too recent to see on Geocaching.com.)

 

Patty

[+PFF]

I agree with everyone that there is not much to be gained in trying to correct the mistaken recoveries--especially when the benchmark is located near a cache or in a frequently-visited location. As was pointed out by seven things, these folks are logging as a curiosity. They are not benchmark hunters and they won't be submitting reports to NGS. (That would be a disaster!)

 

So, let them log away. Who knows? Some of them may become very interested in benchmarking as a result.

 

There was one case where I asked an individual to change a log. When the entire story tumbled out in a series of E-mail exchanges, it went like this: He had a friend visiting the United States. The friend found a new disk--not far from my office. He told the individual, who tried to look it up on geocaching.com, and who picked the closest one he could find. He then submitted an arm-chair recovery report from his home in Germany!

 

The disk found by the friend is too new to be in the database. The mark used for reporting is most likely destroyed. It has been looked for by GEOCAC and local surveyors on numerous occasions without success. So I was quite surprised when I noticed one day that it suddenly had been recovered! I asked the gentleman to archive (remove) his log, and he did.

 

For the most part, benchmarking operates with amazing smoothness. In the four years I've been finding and posting, I have seen only a couple of cases where someone had to be confronted--and in those cases, it was done in a very tactful manner. This group is unique, both on the Internet and in society, in general.

 

-Paul-

 

"Self-Government won't work without Self-Discipline."

 

---Paul Harvey, newscaster.

[+TheBeanTeam]

 

So, let them log away. Who knows? Some of them may become very interested in benchmarking as a result.

 

 

A note can help. This is exactly how I started researching benchmarks. A former regular here in the forums posted a note on a mark that I had logged indicating that I and all the others were logging the wrong mark. At first I was ticked off but then I looked deeper and saw that he was right and I was wrong. I changed my log to a note and started looking into the etiquette of benchmark logging a bit deeper. None of the others have changed there logs and others have logged incorrectly since but without that note I wouldn't have looked past the bright shiny disc to discover the pleasure of a real search, find and recovery effort.