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Is there shame in a DNF?


GrateBear

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This is a light-hearted question about DNFs. I started my caching "career" in Chicago, and always saw many DNFs for caches there. Now, I'm living in Boise and the lack of DNFs is remarkable. I've had people e-mail me for clues because they couldn't find a cache I placed (but no DNF logged) and others who ask me for hints for those I have found (and again, no DNF logged). I have no problem giving them clues, and will continue to do so, even though I find DNFs useful.

Is this common in your area?

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I love to go back and read my DNF logs. They are some of the most interesting reading.

 

There are a few folks in my area that seem to think they could never go to look for a cache and not find it unless it was missing. Or at least, that their story and they are sticking to it.

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Generally I post my DNF's. There is no shame. Some times I log a DNF, as got to the location and ran out of time, I will be back. I know if it's a puzzle or a higher rated cache, the owners enjoy seeing the folks try and be thawarted by the difficulty.

 

Also I like to look at logs as DNF's are a good indication of a missing cache.

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I see no shame in it. You cannot find all of them. Admit it to yourself, you are not in competition with anyone. Some are very cleverly hidden and some are missing. Quite often after 3 or 4 DNFs in a row the cache owner will check to see if the cache is still there. If it is then go back and find it, amazingly, knowing it is there will actually help you to find it.

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As a cache owner, I use DNFs to gauge when I need to temporarily disable a cache and check on it. I also use it to estimate traffic to a given cache to try to learn to place them better. Conversely, I will always log a DNF if I have had a chance to search. It not only helps the CO keep on top of what's happening, it also gives them a chance to cackle at my caching ineptness.

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Hi!

I'm caching in Germany near the Bonn/Cologne area since 2006.

And yes... I see that most cachers do not log DNF.

 

Maybe because their GC friends should not see that they "not as good" :-/

I do not have any problems logging a DNF - I also think that it's (esp. for the owners)

a interesting information that maybe the cache is gone or a information was hidden

to well or the cache is not as easy as aspected.

 

Reg

Martin

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I used to feel that cachers whose logs read something like, "found it on the third try", and you'd look and there'd be no DNF logs to go with those first two tries should be ashamed. The shame being in NOT logging the DNF, not in logging it. But I got over that.

 

Logging online is a chore for some, and they're going to log to report victory, but not defeat. It can be annoying, in that information is being withheld that may be useful to other cachers, but there's no obligation to log online at all. I figure it's akin to the way caches start with decent swag and mostly end up with junk - just an expression of self interest on the part of the human race.

 

As an aside, I generally don't give hints where no DNF has been logged (my own caches). And unless I'm physically present, I don't give hints on caches I don't own.

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There's no shame in logging a DNF at all, it gives valuable information to the cache owner to let them know that the cache may not be there or maybe that the difficulty/terrain ratings or something in the cache description should be altered.

 

If there is a problem with a cache and nobody reports it because they are ashamed of logging a DNF then nobody will know there is something wrong, and people will be searching for caches that may not be there.

 

It's not about logging your failures, it's about alerting the cache owner and other potential seekers of that cache that there may be something wrong.

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I always log DNFs religiously, and with tender loving care, at least as much as I would put into a find log. For me, there is no shame in a DNF, and rather only joy and fun in logging a DNF. I should point out that I tend to be very picky about the caches that I will hunt, and it often happens that I will get onsite -- that is, near the hide site -- particularly for urban caches in distant cities in which I may be traveling, and that once I see the hide area I will decide instantly to abort the cache hunt, often due to strong concerns about trespassing. In those cases, I do not usually bother to file a DNF, since I never even bothered to look for the cache once I checked out the hide site.

 

Now, my wife Sue seems to be slightly aversive to logging DNFs, but that seems to change over time and across situations/types of caches. And, it is my impression that DNFs are grossly under-reported in the MD/DC/VA region.

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Sure is! Very common.

 

I used to shy away from posting DNF's until I got a little experience under my belt. Now however, if I truely believe that I gave the hunt enough effort yet did not find, I'll post a DNF. These days though, I find myself posting DNLook or DNAttempt logs. It's amazing where some people will place a cache. What were they thinking??

 

Anyway, my best DNF streak to date was 10 DNF's out of 20 tries in Martinez, CA. USA.

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I'm ashamed to admit that I'll only log one DNF on a cache, not wanting to embarrass myself with a string of half a dozen on the same cache. When I do eventually find it I will admit in my find it log that it was found on the seventh try, though. :)

 

~erik~

 

Don't you just hate that??? I was stumpped by a cache a buddy placed to taunt me.. Yes, he admits it. Anyway, I went back no less than 4 times. Heck, I even broke out a metal detector and had a deputy join in on the search with his spot light! Only to later spot the buger in plain site, visible from 100 feet away at the right angle. :santa: Ugh...

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There's no shame in posting a DNF. In fact I've posted one myself today.

 

Caches sometimes go missing. If you attempt a cache but fail to find it, a DNF can tip off the owner that the cache may have disappeared, or been put back in the wrong place, or simply be a trickier find than they had expected. As a cacher, if a cache has a string of DNFs followed by a maintenance log from the owner saying that it IS there but tricky to find, I'll be encouraged to not give up too easily. (I had one of those a couple of weeks ago - which I did EVENTUALLY find).

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I'm ashamed to admit that I'll only log one DNF on a cache, not wanting to embarrass myself with a string of half a dozen on the same cache. When I do eventually find it I will admit in my find it log that it was found on the seventh try, though. :)

 

~erik~

 

That's pretty much what I do but not because I don't want to embarass myself. I'd just rather not post a bunch of logs that all say "hey I looked for it but just didn't find it" so I'll post one DNF then when I do find it I'll say how many times I was there.

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I think most new folks think of DNFs as a "Bad Mark"

 

I log every DNF. If I looked for a cache, and did not find it as intended, it's a DNF.

 

As a cache owner, I appreciate DNFs. If I notice a DNF on a cache I know wasn't too difficult, I go and check on it, or if I see many DNFs, I know there is a problem.

 

When I log DNF, I make sure I'm clear as to why, for example, a bunch of muggles comes around, i not that, so the owner doesn't get up and run out to check it, since I just walked away.

 

But if I've been seaching for that 1.5/1.5 for 30 minutes, I log that I've looked all over, etc. Hopefully if a pattern starts, they would see there is an issue and take care of it.

 

DNFs are not bad. They don't take smileys away, and can be very helpful to the owners, or people finding it after you searched and couldn't find it.

 

Just my 2 cents ( Only worth 1 cent )

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I certainly hope not. Otherwise I would have been ashamed of my caching deficiencies 526 times in the past 5+ years. :)

 

And if you avoid posting them out of shame, guilt, abashment, bad conscience, blot, chagrin, compunction, confusion, contempt, contrition, degradation, derision, discomposure, discredit, disesteem, dishonor, disrepute, guilt, humiliation, ignominy, ill repute, infamy, irritation, loss of face, mortification, obloquy, odium, opprobrium, pang, pudency, remorse, reproach, scandal, self-disgust, self-reproach, self-reproof, shamefacedness, skeleton in the cupboard, smear, stigma, stupefaction, treachery or any other emotion, then you cannot log a find on A Century of DNF's. Which it seems was shamelessly copied from another cache. :santa:

 

The only time I was ashamed, and actually embarrassed is a better term, was when I phoned someone for a hint on a cache and was told that it had been archived a month earlier. So I was caught caching with stale data. But that is a discussion for another thread. :santa:

Edited by wimseyguy
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This is a light-hearted question about DNFs. I started my caching "career" in Chicago, and always saw many DNFs for caches there. Now, I'm living in Boise and the lack of DNFs is remarkable. I've had people e-mail me for clues because they couldn't find a cache I placed (but no DNF logged) and others who ask me for hints for those I have found (and again, no DNF logged). I have no problem giving them clues, and will continue to do so, even though I find DNFs useful.

Is this common in your area?

 

I've had folks email for clues. I ask them to log their DNF first. Normally they don't, and I don't send them a clue. Some folks feel undomfortable logging a DNF. I don't know why. It's not like they aren't already not finding them.

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85 found 22 not found. 4 of those DNFs were turned into finds. That's almost 20%. I can accept that I suck. I STILL haven't found a benchmark that wasn't a watertower or huge cable tower. I found the arrow to a benchmark but couldn't find the benchmark. And those are, like, in the ground. So... hey. The only thing I don't do is write a million DNFs if I continue to look after the first time and people are finding it before and after my undocumented DNFs.

 

But I think DNFs are very helpful. Not only do they cue me to look at my cache and recheck coords (whatever's most applicable), but there are owners who'll message a DNF'r immediately with questions and clues. I think it helps to build a better game by facilitating communication.

 

My two cents. :)

 

- Elle

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One very common occurence around here is not logging dnf's on brand new caches... Personally I love being the first to dnf and logging so.

 

I think there are many out there who think: "Depends on the cache, depends on the owner, depends on the day, depends on number of prior dnf's on the cache, depends on number of prior personal find attempts, depends on time spent, depends on number of eyes looking, depends on if they plan to come back later in the day, depends on if there is a story to tell, etc..." They make a personal decision based on many factors on whether to log the dnf or not.

 

I try to log all of my dnf's but on occasion I admit that I sometimes choose not to. For me it's really a personal decision and shame is never a factor.

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I'm kind of up and down with logging DNFs. I have a personal rule set for this, which I wouldn't expect others to follow, but it seems to work for me and also enough to help cache owners if a cache has truly gone missing. Of course, this changes somewhat if I have a ton of logs to do. I'm more conscientious about logging DNFs if I'm not swamped with other logs, since with a find, you're done, whereas with a DNF there is always the chance to go back and give the DNF cache another try.

 

My rule 1: I'm often blind. Therefore, if I'm not in the mood for logging, I sometimes don't log a DNF if I go back to the cache page and see that it's been recently logged by other folks. In this case, I chalk the non-find up to my stupidity and I usually search again a few days later. If I still can't find it after another try, I then log the DNF and mention the previous DNF at the same time. You'd be surprised at how many caches I walked right up to the first time, and even though they were staring at me with a neon sign turned on full blast, I still didn't see them. Yet I find them quite handily the second time, go figure.

 

My rule 2: If I walk up to a cache site, and decide I don't want to climb a tree, traverse a steep slope, wade a bog or other similar physical challenge, or there are too many muggles about to find a cache, or I don't have time to properly look for the cache, I don't log a DNF since I really didn't give it the same effort I usually give to a cache I actually searched for. Sometimes I'll leave a note about not wanting to cross a snake infested bog.

 

My rule 3: If I've given it my all, searched for quite a while and simply cannot find it, I ALWAYS log a DNF, because at this point, I suspect that a cache is missing and the owner probably should know about it. About 2/3 of the time, the cache really is missing. The other third, my lightbulb still hasn't gone on, and usually someone throws a clue my way or I ask for one. Sometimes even with the clue I can't find it. I've still got caches with logged DNFs that I've never ever found.

 

My rule 4: If I see the cache box and am pretty certain it's the real box, but can't sign the log because I don't want to climb the tree to get the log book (I have an allergy to broken bones), I log a note. This way, the owner is aware the box is still there and OK and doesn't have to worry about checking on it, but this allows me to report on it without claiming it as a find.

 

Another two cents, courtesy of

BlueDamsel

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Its interesting that nearly everyone that posted in this thread says there's no shame in the DNF log and they log all of their DNFs. That sure doesn't seem to jibe with the general populace, but the forums never really so, do they? :)

 

Two of my caching friends never log DNFs. I have no idea why they don't, but they don't. Sometimes when they find a cache they'll say "this is the 4th time I've looked for the cache" in the found log.

 

As a cache owner I like the DNFs because they alert me to a possible missing cache.

 

As a cache finder DNF logs alert me to a possible missing cache, or maybe a very difficult cache.

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Its interesting that nearly everyone that posted in this thread says there's no shame in the DNF log and they log all of their DNFs. That sure doesn't seem to jibe with the general populace, but the forums never really so, do they? :)

To quote the venerable wimseyguy, "You're apparently confusing the forums with the geocaching community. That's kind of like confusing society with talk radio and editorial pages."

 

There are few issues where the majority of forumites overwhelmingly agree. The fact that you SHOULD log DNFs is one of them. But most cachers don't participate in the worldwide forums (some participate in local forums, the rest don't participate at all).

 

My guess is that about 1/4 to 1/2 of all actual DNFs are logged online. In other words, for every logged DNF there are 1 to 3 that are not logged.

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Its interesting that nearly everyone that posted in this thread says there's no shame in the DNF log and they log all of their DNFs. That sure doesn't seem to jibe with the general populace, but the forums never really so, do they? :santa:

 

Yeah. It gets pretty deep in here when the minister preaches to the choir. I need to roll up my pant legs...

 

As a cache finder DNF logs alert me to a possible missing cache, or maybe a very difficult cache.

 

Okay. I've logged 212 DNFs. (That's one for ever twelve finds.) 39 of them were missing. That's not a high ratio. There have been other caches that I have not found, and decided not to log a DNF on. My prerogative. Sing Hallelujah all you want, but the sinner isn't in the choir. :) Nope. Didn't log the DNF for the one 14 feet up the tree, with the Arts Fair tent under the tree. I could see it. It's still there. I'm just not that agile, and didn't want to fall into someone's tent. (Though it might have broken the fall...) Nope. I don't inflate the ego of nasty cache hiders either. Evil, perhaps. Nasty? No way.

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I have to agree with BlueDamsel.

 

Sometimes, I look for a cache twice before recording the DNF, simply to make sure I have not just over looked it. If I have looked for the cache with much effort (either the 1st or 2nd time) and don't find it, I record it. The cache owner needs to know. I have found that many of the owners automatically email with a hint or words of encouragement. Since, I am new to GC that is always nice.

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The only time I don't log DNFs is when I forget I tried a cache (Wasn't using the "didn't find" on the Colorado lest it remove it from the map and not let me look again). I always fess up to it on the find log though noting how many tries/hours it took me.

I've noticed that not too many people post them around here though. I'm pretty sure based on the find logs and talking to some of the local cachers that all of my hides aren't super easy but there are only finds logged on all of them (1 DNF and I have mentioned that they emailed a correct guess). Almost stumped a local heavy hitter on one but ended up showing it to him since he'd been there quite a while. He said he'd seen 2 other people there looking but they gave up...didn't log a DNF. Have to admit, I placed one where I can just about see it from where I'm sitting. I've seen many more people looking than have logged finds, and that cache has no logged DNFs. The cacher I talked to even said to me that not too many locals will log a DNF. I didn't ask him why.

 

 

I should probably make a new thread for this...but I actually came here tonight to post something similar but completely different.

Since I started hiding caches, I've noticed lots of people find them but never log a find. Some sign the physical log, some don't. Although my evidence of moved caches could be chalked up to muggles (I highly highly doubt it though due to the nature of the hides and how often I check on them)...today I noticed something that is concrete proof. There was a TB placed in my first multi by the FTF. I noticed tonight that the icon was no longer on the listing. I looked at the TB page and saw that someone logged it out of the cache...but they never logged a find on the cache they grabbed it from.

:)

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I'm pretty good about logging my DNFs. For one thing, I want to keep track myself and will usually go back at a later time to look again. I believe DNFs are important to log because it is the first indication sometimes that the cache has in fact gone missing. If you're the only one who missed after a string of others found the cache and then more find it after you, then you just missed - it happens. But if you log a DNF and then several others after you do the same, it will give notice to the owner to check out the cache.

 

There have been many times when I've gotten lucky and found a deviously hidden cache because I happened to be looking at exactly the right angle, and others that I haven't found because I overlooked something quite obvious - it's all part of the game. For me, the game challenges your honesty. You are expected to trade fairly and log your DNFs if you did in fact look for the cache and missed. Heck, if you didn't want to be honest in playing, you could just sign off on every cache in you area (online) and realistically, you'ld probably never get caught unless someone bounced your "finds" against the physical log books.

 

I see many, many DNFs in my area, but am sure that many more don't get recorded - its all up to the individual players about how they want to play. I don't know if its a geographical thing for some parts of the country to log DNFs and other places not to. Perhaps urban caches (which tend to be smaller and harder to spot than say, an ammo can) get more DNFs.

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I have no shame. That being said, I have no problem with posting DNFs.

If a cacher can not find one of my caches, I really appreciate them logging a DNF...The DNF alerts me if I may be having a problem with that container hide...muggled, etc....I had a DNF on a great hide by the lake in a large dead log....Some one ripped the log apart to find the cache container and then took it with them or threw the container in the lake... Well, I'm hard headed, so I placed an other smaller container in the log and now waiting to see what happens. Happy Caching

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If I were EVER to log a DNF....I would be "thinking" that the cachers that read my DNF would be "thinking"..............."LOSER!! What a LOSER!! Right in front of his eyes and he bumbles around and can't find it! What a LOSER!! What a DWEEB this guy must be! I found it in a nano second and this POOR SLOB stumbles all over the area and doesn't have a CLUE! What a .......LOSER!!"

 

Of course....I might be just a tad paranoid! :santa::):santa:

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Well, I must admit that when I first started geocaching I did not log any DNF's unless I was pretty sure they were missing (very few actually were missing). Yes, I looked at it as a "shame thing". Then once I became a cache owner I realized how important logging DNF's are. After I hit the 100 finds mark, it did not seem so shameful to not find a cache anymore. Maybe because it had happened so often, or maybe because I realized that the adventure was the same, only the outcome was different. I figured that the cache owner deserved the log even if I was not worthy to find the hide. Now I log every DNF. I have some DNF logs that are 4 or 5 repeats. I combine them all into one running log so it does not mess up the paperless cachers (of which I am one) which typically only get to read the last 5 logs while in the field. When I finally do find the bugger, the :anicute: feels even better after all those previous :santa: ( I wish TPTB would replace that :santa: (with a :))!

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I'm not ashamed to log my DNFs. I'm up to 383 of them now. Some of my friends don't log their DNFs, so if I'm caching with those that don't, I like to mention their names in my DNF log, so the owner knows that 3 or 4 people couldn't find it. If 4 people can't find a cache, it may mean there's a problem whereas if just one person logs a DNF, they may think the one person just missed it.

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