Local cacher with many hides is now deceased...can we adopt his caches?

[Mag Magician]

Cobra? Are you there? Since you forgot to actually post, I can only hazard a guess as to whether you really wanted an answer.

My first thought would be...........NO! It's against the latest guidelines.

Edited October 25, 2008 by Mag Magician

[Keystone]

Let's give the OP a chance to post a reply with a full explanation (minus the cacher's name). Based on the facts, we can then advise on how to proceed.

 

I am sorry that the forum software has eaten yet another original post.

[+DavidMac]

I seem to remember this scenario being brought up during discussion over the current adoption guidelines.

 

Does somebody else have the password to the account (or access to the associated email address)? If so then somebody could log in to send adoption requests from the account.

[+Okiebryan]

If the group in your local area is as close knit as we are here, then this cacher was someone you consider to be a friend. I'd like to express my condolences for your loss.

 

I know if one of our local group here passed on, we'd definitely be feeling a loss.

[+Wacka]

Just after Labor Day, we had a very active local cacher that suddenly died from a heart attack. One of our local reviewers knew him well. The dead cacher's daughter also caches. They are all for people adopting his caches and the reviewer will facilitate this in the future. People in the area are doing maintenance as needed now. About 30 cachers showed up for his memorial service in a local state park that he loved to hike in.

 

About two years ago, we had a cacher that died in a motorcycle accident while out caching. Although they aren't adopted out, her caches are still being kept up by cachers in the area. She died about 5 days before an event she was planning. We still had the event and made it a memorial to her. An artistic cacher made a nice collage of pictures and comments that fellow cachers had put on our local site. A few non-caching friends of her's came and were really moved.

Edited October 25, 2008 by Wacka

[+erik88l-r]

My condolences.

 

We had an area geocacher pass away earlier this year too, and the question of adopting his caches also came up. We put those discussions on hold to allow a respectful period of time to pass, and in the meantime Groundspeak has modified the adoption procedures to formally acknowledge the fact that as a listing service Groundspeak can't give away something that doesn't belong to them. In the case of a death, the next of kin would have to give permission, as with any other property.

 

However, keep in mind that the deceased geocacher left a legacy of hidden caches on his or her profile page . If they were adopted out to someone else that history would disappear, and it would appear that he or she left no caches for us to enjoy.

 

It might be better for fellow geocachers to informally "adopt" a cache by continuing to maintain it on behalf of the deceased friend, rather than formally adopting it.

 

~erik~

 

edited to fix typer

Edited October 25, 2008 by erik88l-r

[big_bob]

It might be better for fellow geocachers to informally "adopt" a cache by continuing to maintain it on behalf of the deceased friend, rather than formally adopting it.

Sounds like an excellent solution. However would Groundspeak allow it? They require a cacher to be "active" and to log in from time to time in order to keep the caches listed.

[+hallycat]

It might be better for fellow geocachers to informally "adopt" a cache by continuing to maintain it on behalf of the deceased friend, rather than formally adopting it.

Sounds like an excellent solution. However would Groundspeak allow it? They require a cacher to be "active" and to log in from time to time in order to keep the caches listed.

 

This post brings up an interesting topic that will continue to occur for the life of the sport. There needs to be some way to allow adoption. I know in my area there are hiders with over 100 hides. What happens if they go unmaintained? They become trash. This is not the image we want to portray of caching.

[+trainlove]

Official 'Adoption' of caches previously owned be deceased people can and does happen.

I'm not sure how the transdimensional contact is initiated (halloween is right around the bend), but I knew several people we all miss.

Edited October 25, 2008 by trainlove

[+DArR]

Sorry for your loss.

This is an excellent topic and one that should be seriously addressed by Groundspeak.

Perhaps an addition to the account page, a living will so to speak would serve, then Groundspeak would have prior permission to addopt the caches out, or, you could specify who would inherit them. As for myself I will address this issue ASAP, as I've invested a lot of time placing caches and dread the thought of them becoming unavailable or even worse...trash. We have a close community of cachers in our area and I would prefer that they inherit the treasures and keep the spirit of them alive for future cachers.

Thanks for the topic.

Darr

[Keystone]

It might be better for fellow geocachers to informally "adopt" a cache by continuing to maintain it on behalf of the deceased friend, rather than formally adopting it.

Sounds like an excellent solution. However would Groundspeak allow it? They require a cacher to be "active" and to log in from time to time in order to keep the caches listed.

There is no such requirement for physical caches. We don't go around archiving listings JUST because the owner hasn't logged in for two years. We archive listings because the cache has gone missing, is falling apart, etc., and nobody is maintaining it. So, as erik88l-r said, the community can maintain the cache.

 

This post brings up an interesting topic that will continue to occur for the life of the sport. There needs to be some way to allow adoption. I know in my area there are hiders with over 100 hides. What happens if they go unmaintained? They become trash. This is not the image we want to portray of caching.

Please see erik88l-r's post. Caches can be adopted at the instruction of a surviving family member. Authorization can be forwarded to Groundspeak. As Erik noted, the timing of this is an issue that ought to be approached with great sensitivity.

 

Sorry for your loss.

This is an excellent topic and one that should be seriously addressed by Groundspeak.

Perhaps an addition to the account page, a living will so to speak would serve, then Groundspeak would have prior permission to addopt the caches out, or, you could specify who would inherit them.

Rather than building an elaborate system (do other websites do this?), why not just tell a few family members what you wish to have done with your geocaches? Tell a few other geocachers too, and make sure that both geocachers and family members know how to contact each other.

[+firennice]

Wow i can only think

 

One of our big players

Ad0or has 1100 hides spread out among numerous states. (the joy of traveling for his work).

I can only imagine what would happen if he was incapacitated, dead, or just walked away from it. (Not very likely)

[+hallycat]

I like Darr's idea. Not everyone has close family that will even care what happens to their caches or it might not seem important to them to deal with it.

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

It certainly can, and does happen. We had a cacher in our state pass away a couple of months ago. His caches have been formally adopted by another cacher from his area. I dont know the proceedure, just that is did happen.

[+erik88l-r]

Perhaps an addition to the account page, a living will so to speak would serve, then Groundspeak would have prior permission to addopt the caches out, or, you could specify who would inherit them

 

My drivers license says "organ donor" on it. Perhaps I should put something similar on my GPS or geocaching PDA authorizing transfer of my caches after my death. Oh wait, I have a wife. She makes all my decisions for me, dead or alive.

 

Seriously, I guess one's profile page would be the place to post wishes of that sort, but I think I'll pass. Perhaps if I had an incurable disease I'd feel differently.

 

~erik~

[+wimseyguy]

I've already discussed my desire for the adoption of my caches with my wife.

She'll also handle the disposition of my more important assets when the time comes, assuming I go first.

 

That arrangement should work fine for most of us, and doesn't require the involvement of any website or outside authority until the appropriate time comes. If you don't have close family that will take care of your assets, you should make arrangements for them before worrying about your geocaches, and include them in those plans.

[+JBnW]

 

However, keep in mind that the deceased geocacher left a legacy of hidden caches on his or her profile page . If they were adopted out to someone else that history would disappear, and it would appear that he or she left no caches for us to enjoy.

 

 

An excellent point. Why not, after the appropriate archiving / adopting steps have been taken, modify the cache page to note that the cache is being maintained as the legacy and history that it is, and as a continuing gift to the departed and the community?

[+Don_J]

My condolences.

 

It might be better for fellow geocachers to informally "adopt" a cache by continuing to maintain it on behalf of the deceased friend, rather than formally adopting it.

 

~Erik~

 

edited to fix typer

 

Here is a real situation that came up with our local hiking group a few months ago. It involves an inactive cacher, not a deceased cacher.

 

They had placed a cache up on a mountain peak in 2002. The cache burned up in a fire in 2007. Our group hiked up and replaced it in 2008. When the cache was published, you could drive six miles up a good dirt forest road. After the fire, the USS installed a gate that stays locked to all except utility workers. The cache description specifically states that you can drive to the cache and it has a terrain rating of 1.5. Now, six years after it is published, it is a six mile hike with a 2000' elevation gain. Cachers are driving 50-100 miles to go get the cache, thinking that they can drive to it. They are not prepared to hike. If we simply maintain the cache for the inactive user, that is all we can maintain. Unless we own the cache, we cannot maintain the cache page. We can not update the cache description, the terrain rating, the new container size, nor can we temp disable it if it comes up missing. Meanwhile, some guy that can't find it can come along and place that dreaded "Needs Maintenance" cross on the page, and we can't get rid of it. Because of the new adoption policy, our only choice was to ask for the old cache to be archived and then create a new listing, which is what we did.

 

I see no problem with trying to keep a deceased cacher's legacy alive through their caches, but if someone doesn't have the password to the account, it can get quite messy.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Don_J

[+Rockin Roddy]

My condolences.

 

It might be better for fellow geocachers to informally "adopt" a cache by continuing to maintain it on behalf of the deceased friend, rather than formally adopting it.

 

~Erik~

 

edited to fix typer

 

Here is a real situation that came up with our local hiking group a few months ago. It involves an inactive cacher, not a deceased cacher.

 

They had placed a cache up on a mountain peak in 2002. The cache burned up in a fire in 2007. Our group hiked up and replaced it in 2008. When the cache was published, you could drive six miles up a good dirt forest road. After the fire, the USS installed a gate that stays locked to all except utility workers. The cache description specifically states that you can drive to the cache and it has a terrain rating of 1.5. Now, six years after it is published, it is a six mile hike with a 2000' elevation gain. Cachers are driving 50-100 miles to go get the cache, thinking that they can drive to it. They are not prepared to hike. If we simply maintain the cache for the inactive user, that is all we can maintain. Unless we own the cache, we cannot maintain the cache page. We can not update the cache description, the terrain rating, the new container size, nor can we temp disable it if it comes up missing. Meanwhile, some guy that can't find it can come along and place that dreaded "Needs Maintenance" cross on the page, and we can't get rid of it. Because of the new adoption policy, our only choice was to ask for the old cache to be archived and then create a new listing, which is what we did.

 

I see no problem with trying to keep a deceased cacher's legacy alive through their caches, but if someone doesn't have the password to the account, it can get quite messy.

 

Maybe posting a note every time the last note falls off the page would help, but I agree.

 

Caches need archived or adopted, helping out is commendable, but impractical in many cases. If the previous owner goes MIA (dies, quits etc) and no one knows the password or has made arrangements with the owner, archive and place a tribute cache in the previous owner's honor.

[+erik88l-r]

I see no problem with trying to keep a deceased cacher's legacy alive through their caches, but if someone doesn't have the password to the account, it can get quite messy.

 

You could ask your local reviewer to edit the cache page. I've done that, when requested, if a geocacher is obviously inactive. Examples include caches placed on vacation with maintenance agreed to by a local resident. Cache owner drops out and local "cache guardian" wants to have a note added to the cache page about a change to the cache, or to have the coords updated after the cache is moved slightly. I don't mind doing it for caches in my review territory as long as I can maintain a record of the requests and actions. I treat it a bit like a "should be archived" request - acting as requested only if there is no alternative. It's not my cache, so I have to be judicious.

 

~erik~

[+Rockin Roddy]

I see no problem with trying to keep a deceased cacher's legacy alive through their caches, but if someone doesn't have the password to the account, it can get quite messy.

 

You could ask your local reviewer to edit the cache page. I've done that, when requested, if a geocacher is obviously inactive. Examples include caches placed on vacation with maintenance agreed to by a local resident. Cache owner drops out and local "cache guardian" wants to have a note added to the cache page about a change to the cache, or to have the coords updated after the cache is moved slightly. I don't mind doing it for caches in my review territory as long as I can maintain a record of the requests and actions. I treat it a bit like a "should be archived" request - acting as requested only if there is no alternative. It's not my cache, so I have to be judicious.

 

~erik~

 

I'd be all for this if it were the norm among all reviewers. There should be verification though!

 

While I'd be somewhat proud others would want to keep my memory alive, I'd think archiving and then maybe placing a tribute cache would be the better option for me at least. It would give the ones who already found the cache a chance to find another while also giving them a chance to pay respects, it would bring new caches into the area and still honor the loved ones! After all, what are we going to do? Keep the caches alive forever?

[+The Cooker]

My condolences...

 

Maybe "Caching Wills" are in order... You could give direction to the reviewers on what to do if you quit the game or pass on. A checkbox option in the profile could be:

 

1. Archive my caches

2. Transfer ownership to <Cacher Name>

3. Allow adoption by anyone

4. Informal adoption (keep in my name, and let the community keep them up as long as possible)

5. Other: Please explain

 

The Cooker

[+trainlove]

1. Archive my caches

2. Transfer ownership to <Cacher Name>

...

I do believe that once a cache is archived, it's done. You can't unarchive it, you can't adopt it out, you just can't.

But if you mean to temporarily archive it (i.e. Disable it) then your steps work.

But there is no need for #1 in the first place.

[+Moose Mob]

1. Archive my caches

2. Transfer ownership to <Cacher Name>

...

I do believe that once a cache is archived, it's done. You can't unarchive it, you can't adopt it out, you just can't.

But if you mean to temporarily archive it (i.e. Disable it) then your steps work.

But there is no need for #1 in the first place.

Sure there is. Archival is a very viable option, especialy when they were to elabotrate with "please recover the containers and give them out as a raffle" or "please replace the log book and submit it as a new cache listing"

[+Rockin Roddy]

1. Archive my caches

2. Transfer ownership to <Cacher Name>

...

I do believe that once a cache is archived, it's done. You can't unarchive it, you can't adopt it out, you just can't.

But if you mean to temporarily archive it (i.e. Disable it) then your steps work.

But there is no need for #1 in the first place.

 

They aren't steps, their choices. Note where the poster say's "a checkbox option...".

[+Driver Carries Cache]

Rather than building an elaborate system (do other websites do this?), why not just tell a few family members what you wish to have done with your geocaches? Tell a few other geocachers too, and make sure that both geocachers and family members know how to contact each other.

 

I think that's the best idea. Let your Geocaching pals know your preference, and make sure someone reliable has access to your ID (which I know is probably against the rules).

 

DCC