Caches in Busy Round-A-Bouts

[+Astro_D]

I did a cache with my family a few weeks ago, and as we approached the area, we realized it was located in the center of a busy round-a-bout. Well, I left the family in the car, and I went to get it. Afterwards, I realized what a hazard it was for me and for the traffic. While I did find it, I and my family realized it's not the type of cache placement we will bother seeking again. I'm curious of the genreal opinion of these types of cache placements: good, bad, indifferent?

Edited October 14, 2008 by AstroD-Team

[+DanOCan]

Caches in those sorts of locations tend to end up on my Ignore list.

[+Harry Dolphin]

No more bizarre that other places that I've found caches. Try an abandoned rest area on the Henry Hudson Parkway!

Ya don't like them, ignore them.

(PS. Only my Gupy thinks that there are roundabouts in New Jersey. We call them traffic circles.)

[+ShowStop]

Unless its illegal for a pedestrian to be in the round-a-bout circle, then it is your option as a cache seeker whether or not you want to go after it. Every cache page has a liability waiver on it stating that you assume all risk by searching for the cache. If crossing traffic and standing there near the road is outside your comfort level, then skip it. The next seeker can also decide for themselves if they want to attempt the cache.

 

Now...if the placement does require somebody to break the law the retrieve the cache (jaywalk) or if pedestrians are not allowed on the round-a-bout, then you might consider reporting the cache to the local reviewer.

[Mr.Yuck]

I did a cache with my family a few weeks ago, and as we approached the area, we realized it was located in the center of a busy round-a-bout. Well, I left the family in the car, and I went to get it. Afterwards, I realized what a hazard it was for me and for the traffic. While I did find it, I and my family realized it's not the type of cache placement we will bother seeking again. I'm curious of the genreal opinion of these types of cache placements: good, bad, indifferent?

 

Yeah, I looked for one once. It was a puzzle, my GPS had no mapping, and I was rather shocked where I ended up. I still went for it, seeing as it was a Sunday; it would be suicide most other times in my opinion. Generally I'd say bad idea, and I'd ignore it if I knew that it was a round-a-bout ahead of time. (or traffic circles, as we call them in NY also )

Edited October 14, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+briansnat]

I've not found probably close to a hundred caches where I arrived at the coordinates and just turned around for one reason or another and went on to the next cache. Most of the time they were in areas where I simply found to a waste of my time, as I have no interest in parking lots other than finding a place to park my car. I got away from the idea that every cache has to be found a long time ago. If I don't like the area, I move on.

[Clan Riffster]

I reckon it depends on the cache. Like Brian, there are gobs of caches that I've walked/driven away from simply because the final location failed to appeal to me. High traffic areas rate in the upper percentile of those caches. However, one of my all time favorites was in a large fountain in Jacksonville, Fl. surrounded by cars zooming by, with coffee shops and bistros packed with customers, across the streets. Needless to say, it was an extremely high visibility location. The Federation Must Pay!

[+TrailGators]

I've not found probably close to a hundred caches where I arrived at the coordinates and just turned around for one reason or another and went on to the next cache. Most of the time they were in areas where I simply found to a waste of my time, as I have no interest in parking lots other than finding a place to park my car. I got away from the idea that every cache has to be found a long time ago. If I don't like the area, I move on.

I'm the same way. Caching is a lot like fishing because there are always some that you have to throw back.

[+Rev Mike]

I would never do that for a cache but I have done it twice for benchmarks.

 

Seems like a bad idea for a cache placement and possibly illegal depending on where you are.

 

- Rev Mike

[Dj Storm]

I abandoned a hunt for such a cache, 2500+ km from my home, on which I could be FTF. It was 3:15 in the morning (I was going to the airport to return home), and stopped searching less than 2 minutes into the hunt, after the 4th car passed by; didn't want to explain to police what I was doing near the airport in a foreign country, especially as I had to go to that airport. I didn't like this kind of placement, I was only hunting because of the chance to score my first FTF at that time.

I also hate the difficulty 5 hides where the difficulty is caused by muggles; the kind where the cache is a camoed nano hidden in a plaza with 24/7 human presence (went near one of these, and continued walking).

[+WRASTRO]

I abandoned a hunt for such a cache, 2500+ km from my home, on which I could be FTF. It was 3:15 in the morning (I was going to the airport to return home), and stopped searching less than 2 minutes into the hunt, after the 4th car passed by; didn't want to explain to police what I was doing near the airport in a foreign country, especially as I had to go to that airport. I didn't like this kind of placement, I was only hunting because of the chance to score my first FTF at that time.

I also hate the difficulty 5 hides where the difficulty is caused by muggles; the kind where the cache is a camoed nano hidden in a plaza with 24/7 human presence (went near one of these, and continued walking).

I decided a while back that if the hider was going to place a cache where there was always muggle presence that I would "try" to avoid being noticed but that I really wouldn't worry about it too much. I either decide to walk away or I go for the find. If I get noticed and the cache gets muggled I am not going to feel too sorry for the hider who chose to place the cache in such a location. As far as I know I have never been the cause of a cache being muggled but it could happen.

[+whistler & co.]

We do not like caches like that! Not only do they pose a hazard for the cache seeker, but they also pose a hazard to the general public. Imagine the negative publicity for geocaching if someone were to get hit and killed by a car while crossing the road in a highly hazardous, probably illegal to pedestrians place. I suspect that if someone were to (heaven forbid!) die in the course of finding a hydrocache or a cache on a cliff face, the incident would be perceived by the general public similar to other "adventurer's" deaths (i.e. mountain climbers, kayakers, skydivers, etc.), and thus would be little more than a local news item. But imagine if a schoolbus full of children were to hit a cacher who was navigating a three or four lane traffic circle on foot! Yikes! I have said it before and I'll say it again: common sense should keep cache placements out of areas where the act of seeking the cache poses a threat to the general public.

[+Astro_D]

Thanks for all the comments so far. Thankfully this is the first of its kind that I encountered. Any more of this type and they will be on my ignore list. There are other, far nicer caches out there to be found.

[+SUp3rFM & Cruella]

Location, Location, Location... right?

 

I honestly believe that there is room for everything. Caches in round-a-bouts, urban settings, woods, etc. If they're compliant to the posted guidelines, they're ok to be published. Does that mean that I have to go after it?

 

No. And that's the beauty of the thing (besides all the positive aspects of geocaching).

 

I can filter some caches out of my way by reading its page, logs, photos and even in loco observation. If I'm not pleased, I'll skip that one and move onto the next.

 

Can a cache in a busy round-a-bout be interesting? Well, maybe.

 

Maybe I'll grab that cache with a bunch of my usual friends and we'll have a blast with our non-sense jokes... at 4am after some jars of sangria. Probably, the hunt would be one to remember.

 

You're not obligated to get it. Move on.

 

edit: spelling.

Edited October 14, 2008 by SUp3rFM & Cruella

[+sbell111]

I did a cache with my family a few weeks ago, and as we approached the area, we realized it was located in the center of a busy round-a-bout. Well, I left the family in the car, and I went to get it. Afterwards, I realized what a hazard it was for me and for the traffic. While I did find it, I and my family realized it's not the type of cache placement we will bother seeking again. I'm curious of the genreal opinion of these types of cache placements: good, bad, indifferent?

Indifferent.

 

The example cache is no different from every other cache. If you arrive at the scene and find that it would be too dangerous for you to make the find, abandon the hunt and move on to something that you would be more comfortable with.

[Mr.Yuck]

I would never do that for a cache but I have done it twice for benchmarks.

 

Seems like a bad idea for a cache placement and possibly illegal depending on where you are.

 

 

Yeah, the more I think about it, I'd say for most of the roundabouts in my region, it's not even legal for the public to be there (jaywalking), on top of the danger factor. But I can think of some lower traffic ones that have sidewalks and even benches.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I have a whole series devoted to these "Urban Crop Circles". I thought there were only a few of them on one end of town, but other cachers who have enjoyed these interesting locations have let me know about more.

 

Some of theses circles I have deemed "too busy" and have either not placed a cache there or placed it outside of the circle so cachers don't interfere with traffic. Most of the traffic circles I've used are on lesser-used roads so there is no danger to cachers or traffic.

 

Most of them, also, have lots of trees so cachers have much more cover to retrieve the cache than your standard urban lamppost cache.

[+supertbone]

I did a cache with my family a few weeks ago, and as we approached the area, we realized it was located in the center of a busy round-a-bout. Well, I left the family in the car, and I went to get it. Afterwards, I realized what a hazard it was for me and for the traffic. While I did find it, I and my family realized it's not the type of cache placement we will bother seeking again. I'm curious of the genreal opinion of these types of cache placements: good, bad, indifferent?

 

I have been to several caches hidden in roudabouts. Most of them I hated because they where in high traffic area where the risk of being hit is high.

[+Glenn]

I was recently hunting caches in a park near me. The park has a number of parking lots. When I realized that one of the caches on my list was leading me to one of these parking lots and that this cache was going to somewhere in the parking lot and that the parking lot has no unique features I abandoned the hunt and went off to find other caches.

 

If at any time that you don't feel a cache is in a location that you don't like or feel is safe you are not obligated to attempt to find the cache. By finding or attempting to find caches that you feel are in questionable locations you are encouraging the placement of more caches places similar to the one you find questionable. If you and other decide not to even hunt for those kind of caches then poorly placed cache will get a lot less visits that other caches and they will naturally weed themselves from the list as the owners archive the listings and find better locations to hide caches.

[+StarBrand]

I've seen roundabouts that were no more than 30 foot in diameter across the center. Others that were a few hundred feet with a nice forested center.

 

I would skip the small busy ones but would not hesitate to find a safe way to get to the larger ones.

 

Walk away when they make you uncomfortable - for whatever reason.

[+infiniteMPG]

Thanks for all the comments so far. Thankfully this is the first of its kind that I encountered. Any more of this type and they will be on my ignore list. There are other, far nicer caches out there to be found.

I think each hide can be judged on it's own merits but sometimes lumping caches into a group and blanket ignoring them can cause you to miss a potentially good hide. While I do the same thing with lamp post hides and bus stop hides (which are very prevalent around here) I have also hidden a traffic circle hide. The county was "planning" a large community in one area near the beach which because of the economic climate has been abandoned. They put in a massively chaotic traffic circle with lanes shooting all around, merges going to no where, bike lanes that disappear and reappear in weird locations, ramp sidewalk entrances that have sign posts in the middle of the ramp, just a ton of very odd designs. But in the middle a neat round-about with palm trees, a sidewalk and a neat garden area. So yeah, it got a hide. So hate to think people see "traffic circle" and go "ignore" and miss being brought to a pretty unique location.

 

Not saying to not ignore things, but just to be cautious how the lumping is done

[+DavidMac]

Caches in those sorts of locations tend to end up on my Ignore list.

 

Ditto. There is a similar cache near where I live that is on my ignore list primarily because of the safety concern. If I'm going to put myself in danger for a smiley, I want it to be for a cache that's worth it.

[+ShowStop]

I'll add that I own a cache at a round-a-bout. The circle is almost 200ft across, but mostly grass and a few trees. Not much place to hide a cache there. There are no crosswalks and lots of traffic at all times. I placed the cache on the outside of the circle in close proximity to parking. It is my 2nd most found cache with over 250 finds to date.

[+Prime Suspect]

(PS. Only my Gupy thinks that there are roundabouts in New Jersey. We call them traffic circles.)

Roundabouts and traffic circles are not the same thing.

 

The main difference is that traffic entering a roundabout has to yield to traffic already in the roundabout. In a traffic circle, the opposite is true. Also, pedestrians are usually not allowed in the central island of a roundabout.

[GPS-Hermit]

I guess in order to improve the game we need to be occasionally vocal about it and promote the game away from those caches that we think are really bad judgement. This one certainly does fit the bad judgement bill. I recommend a comment in the log and an email to the owner. It should be done in a way that doesn't blast anyone but lets them known you did not think well of it. It is just like taking junk out of a cache - we need to police ourselves on a few bad caches rather than have the game get worse due to not wanting to hurt the feeling of someone. I think it is O.K. to say - I believe it would be a good idea to for you to rethink the location of your cache and here is why. I realize that risk is up to the individual and I support that 100%. Having said that I personally don't want anyone taking risk of being harmed getting my cache. I also don't want to bore them into a state of depression leaving them to wonder why anyone would put a cache here.

Each person should place a cache as if they are interested in the game.

Edited October 14, 2008 by GPS-Hermit

[+-cheeto-]

One other thing to mention is that in my area these "Roundabouts" or traffic circles or whatever you call them are relatively new. Many cars navigating these are honestly not sure how to navigate them. Then add in teenage drivers, inattentive driving, etc. along with extra traffic because many of these are going in on new roads, better paved roads, etc and you really do have a recipe for car + person = injury.

 

A thing to note about these roundabouts is that the Wisconsin DOT (Dept of Transportation) has been "touting" these as much safer than traditional 4 way intersections with traffic lights. Safer for pedestrians and cars alike. However, if we (geocachers) are inviting pedestrians to linger around in the middle and search around (sometimes the perimeter) of the middle of these intersections are we not defeating one of the main reasons for putting in intersections like this???

 

The only one I've hunted which was right down the street from my house should have gone on an "ignore list" for sure....

[Mr.Yuck]

(PS. Only my Gupy thinks that there are roundabouts in New Jersey. We call them traffic circles.)

Roundabouts and traffic circles are not the same thing.

 

The main difference is that traffic entering a roundabout has to yield to traffic already in the roundabout. In a traffic circle, the opposite is true. Also, pedestrians are usually not allowed in the central island of a roundabout.

 

This is news to me! You didn't quote me, but I agreed with the Dolphin saying we call them traffic circles in New York (State that is, I'm 400 miles from NYC). I don't know of any of these things in New York or Southern Ontario where you don't yield to people already in it. Except for the rare one that has traffic lights.

 

Anyways, I believe the key word in the OP of this post is "busy". I trust the people who have said in this thread that they own such a cache (IMPG and the smurf come to mind) that they wouldn't put people in danger, or place a cache in one that is not legal for pedestrians to be in. Inexperienced hiders who think it would be a cool place to put a cache, that's another thing.

[+infiniteMPG]

Anyways, I believe the key word in the OP of this post is "busy". I trust the people who have said in this thread that they own such a cache (IMPG and the smurf come to mind) that they wouldn't put people in danger, or place a cache in one that is not legal for pedestrians to be in. Inexperienced hiders who think it would be a cool place to put a cache, that's another thing.

Good summation there, if the traffic circle (round about, whatever) is designed and constructed in a way that is pedestrians friendly then go for it. If not then it would be like placing the cache in the median strip down I-75 a mile from any exit

[+sbell111]

Anyways, I believe the key word in the OP of this post is "busy". I trust the people who have said in this thread that they own such a cache (IMPG and the smurf come to mind) that they wouldn't put people in danger, or place a cache in one that is not legal for pedestrians to be in. Inexperienced hiders who think it would be a cool place to put a cache, that's another thing.

Good summation there, if the traffic circle (round about, whatever) is designed and constructed in a way that is pedestrians friendly then go for it. If not then it would be like placing the cache in the median strip down I-75 a mile from any exit

We can make it even simpler. If it was legal for the cache owner to go there to place the cache, then it's fine. We can all make the decision as to whether a location is too dangerous, but we ought not be led to a location that is illegal to access.

Edited October 16, 2008 by sbell111