Is this FTF for real?

[+Winnie_thePooh]

This person is reportedly the FTF King in Michigan and this is one of his reported FTF caches before it was placed……I read this and I Had to say to myself,(Is he for real or has he gone off of the deep end?)…..Gosh, I hope that I can be as clever as him and his never been hidden FTF. Ha-ha…Is he for real or just wants to seem superior to all other cachers? This is the log that I read….. Still laughing.

 

October 3 by

 

GC1GVHF - SOP - Hog Heaven

 

Rattrak (4613 found)

 

Moving through a bunch of end of the week tasks as the new caches were published. Not being of the caching mind this morning it took a kick to myself to get it together and grab co-ords.

Have you ever found a cache backwards? Well I can say I now have. Being the original cache was missing at the time of publication Brummelbear was going to move the cache. He offered to hide it as my back was turned so that I could go for the hunt. I said get me within 30 feet then I told him I had a better idea, I would just go and find it before it was placed. Once again I got Brummelbear to give me that look of "what are you nuts" as he just had told me it was not in place. I jumped out and went on the hunt, once I felt I had found the hiding spot he was going to use I reported back onto what I had seen. Sure enough I found the spot he was going to place the cache. With that I signed the cache and it was then put in place. Another odd way of finding a cache but I found the spot! TFTC

#4613

FTF

Edited October 5, 2008 by Winniethepooh

[+D@nim@l]

This person is reportedly the FTF King in Michigan and this is one of his reported FTF caches before it was placed……I read this and I Had to say to myself,(Is he for real or has he gone off of the deep end?)…..Gosh, I hope that I can be as clever as him and his never been hidden FTF. Ha-ha…Is he for real or just wants to seem superior to all other cachers? This is the log that I read….. Still laughing.

 

October 3 by

 

GC1GVHF - SOP - Hog Heaven

 

Rattrak (4613 found)

 

Moving through a bunch of end of the week tasks as the new caches were published. Not being of the caching mind this morning it took a kick to myself to get it together and grab co-ords.

Have you ever found a cache backwards? Well I can say I now have. Being the original cache was missing at the time of publication Brummelbear was going to move the cache. He offered to hide it as my back was turned so that I could go for the hunt. I said get me within 30 feet then I told him I had a better idea, I would just go and find it before it was placed. Once again I got Brummelbear to give me that look of "what are you nuts" as he just had told me it was not in place. I jumped out and went on the hunt, once I felt I had found the hiding spot he was going to use I reported back onto what I had seen. Sure enough I found the spot he was going to place the cache. With that I signed the cache and it was then put in place. Another odd way of finding a cache but I found the spot! TFTC

#4613

FTF

 

I think this calls for a certificate.

 

[+briansnat]

I would hope he is joking, but these days ya never know.

[+fizzymagic]

It's a find, but it's definitely not an FTF. Guy will probably claim it as one anyway. Me, I usually won't claim finds on caches if I was present at the hiding; sometimes, if the main difficulty is in getting there, I will claim them if I go back to the spot.

 

But, as Briansnat says, let's hope he was joking.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I think geocaching is gonna need a couple of new sites: velcro-caching (for those who hunt the remnant velcro attachments of missing caches), and now psychic caching (for those who hunt the place the cache is gonna be...).

 

I'd guess psychic caching has the larger growth potential. With velcro caching, you're limited to actual missing caches, but psychic caching! egads, the world and all its parts are opened to finds.

[+Rev Mike]

I think geocaching is gonna need a couple of new sites: velcro-caching (for those who hunt the remnant velcro attachments of missing caches), and now psychic caching (for those who hunt the place the cache is gonna be...).

 

I'd guess psychic caching has the larger growth potential. With velcro caching, you're limited to actual missing caches, but psychic caching! egads, the world and all its parts are opened to finds.

 

HA!

 

Let the record show I just found your next two caches.

I RULE!!!

 

- Rev Mike

[+D@nim@l]

I think geocaching is gonna need a couple of new sites: velcro-caching (for those who hunt the remnant velcro attachments of missing caches), and now psychic caching (for those who hunt the place the cache is gonna be...).

 

I'd guess psychic caching has the larger growth potential. With velcro caching, you're limited to actual missing caches, but psychic caching! egads, the world and all its parts are opened to finds.

 

HA!

 

Let the record show I just found your next two caches.

I RULE!!!

 

- Rev Mike

 

I know, but you forgot to log your pick up of the Black Jeep Travel Bug

[Mr.Yuck]

I think geocaching is gonna need a couple of new sites: velcro-caching (for those who hunt the remnant velcro attachments of missing caches), and now psychic caching (for those who hunt the place the cache is gonna be...).

 

I'd guess psychic caching has the larger growth potential. With velcro caching, you're limited to actual missing caches, but psychic caching! egads, the world and all its parts are opened to finds.

 

Velcro caching (or magnet caching in my area, because it's too cold for velcro to stick to anything, long term) is as beaten as a dead horse. I vote for psychic caching.

[+TazmanianDevils]

I would hope he is joking, but these days ya never know.

Ya know, I saw this and I wish he was joking, but its an actual log check it out.

By the way, could anyone who is about to publish a new cache please just send me the information so that I can claim the find on it right away. For suggestions on how/where to place a cache just send me the cache ID and I will claim the find and heck I might even place the cache for you.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I would hope he is joking, but these days ya never know.

Ya know, I saw this and I wish he was joking, but its an actual log check it out.

By the way, could anyone who is about to publish a new cache please just send me the information so that I can claim the find on it right away. For suggestions on how/where to place a cache just send me the cache ID and I will claim the find and heck I might even place the cache for you.

 

I'd like to point out that while this goes against common sense, there is not a person here going tee-hee-hee that can point to an official written guideline that says it is not a FTF.

[+fizzymagic]

I'd like to point out that while this goes against common sense, there is not a person here going tee-hee-hee that can point to an official written guideline that says it is not a FTF.

Sine there are no official written guidelines that say anything about this whole "FTF" thing, I guess this means I could claim that all my finds are FTFs!

[+Kohavis]

I'd like to point out that while this goes against common sense, there is not a person here going tee-hee-hee that can point to an official written guideline that says it is not a FTF.

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

The find didn't satisfy item #2 which requires the find be signed off or initialed in the cache's logbook to be a genuine "find".

Edited October 6, 2008 by Kohavis

[Clan Riffster]

The find didn't satisfy item #2 which requires the find be signed off or initialed in the cache's logbook to be a genuine "find".

According to the OP, he signed the cache. I'm assuming this was his way of saying he signed the log?

With that I signed the cache and it was then put in place.

Hopefully, when the all inclusive FTF rule book gets published, (Bantam Books has it editted down to only 548 pages!), this method will illegal.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I see that Winnie and Taz are not having fun stirring trouble in their own club and now feel they must sling mud publically in the GC forums? Is this the best you have?? Why didn't you post this in the MiGO forums...where people understand your reasoning for posting such dribble? What's funny, you guys jumped right onto the bandwagon letting the sensationalism of the title lead you to believe something underhanded was afoot here!

 

If you all read the log again and keep an open mind, you might understand that these guys are good friends and cache together often. Since the 'Bear was placing the cache and Rattrak was with him, why not allow him to go after it first? Ever hear of beta testers? YES, Rattrak is a HUGE FTF hound, he has a LOT!! He has traveled long distances to make FTF finds, he's even FTF'd a few of mine and I'm at least an hour+ from his home area!!

 

The fact that Rattrak was able to go out and find the location before the placement is amazing to me, show's just how much of friends these two are! Great minds think alike, and these are two of the greats! My guess, after Rattrak described the location, Brummel and he went out to the spot where Brummel showed Ratrak the coords...which were right where Rattrak described!

 

As I read it, Brummelbear already had the coords for the location, already knew where he was going to place it. They were going out caching AND to place a cache. Brummel was already going to allow Rattrak a chance to find the cache, so Rattrak wanted to make it a challenge and find the location before the placement...which, if I'm reading this correctly, happened! Since Rattrak had no prior knowledge other than being led close to the area (and it didn't sound like it was too close, but I could be mistaken), I'm of mind that it's a FTF...no one here has ever been given a guided tour of a cache placement before???

 

I guess now, as I'll likely be thrown mud at for guiding them out, I'll have to scrap my idea of leading a big group out for an FTF of my recently hidden night cache? I mean, I'll be with them and will be showing them the way (while letting them do as much work as I can possibly handle without dying laughing of course). As I see it, Rattrak did more of a find than what the group will as he went in alone and did as he suggested...to the satisfaction of the owner!

 

And Kohavis, my guess is that Rattrak did sign the logbook, I know these guys and will be happy to vouch for their honesty!

Edited October 6, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

[Clan Riffster]

I don't have a problem with this being posted here. It is discussing geocaching, and this is a geocaching forum.

 

Anywho... my take:

 

Putting my earlier snarky answer aside, it seems that Brummelbear and Rattrak are playing the game the way they want to play it, and doing so within the existing guidelines. As such, this behavior might seem quirky to me, as I don't claim FTF on beta tested caches, but it doesn't particularly bother me. If Brummelbear and/or Rattrak ever wake up one morning suddenly giving a hoot about the opinion of some ol' fat crippled guy wearing a smelly hat in Florida, and subsequently ask me what I thought, I'd be happy to tell them why I choose not to claim FTF honors on a cache I beta test. Till then, I reckon I'll cache and let cache, as their actions are hurting no one.

[+va griz]

I can beat that! I am the FTF on a cache that hasn't been thought of yet. I have predicted the exact location where it will be placed on Feb. 30th 2009, even though I don't know who is going to put it there. Unfortunetly I have no way of logging it yet, and I haven't found the TB I am going to drop in to it.

 

But seriously, I can see what the finder meant and respect his ability to get into his friends head, even if I wouldn't consider it a FTF for myself.

[Dinoprophet]

Like the last few posts, I don't see what the big deal is. Would it have been any different if he had scoped the area, then kept his guess secret and went straight to the cache two minutes later?

 

Or another comparison: you're hunting a cache, you find a likely spot, but it's not there. Just then, the cache owner shows up with the cache -- you hadn't realized the cache had gone missing, and he just happened to show up right then to replace it. Are you allowed to log the cache?

 

Whether it's a "valid FTF", I'll leave up to those who care about that.

 

Full disclosure: though I'm a Michigander, I don't know any of the cachers involved personally beyond probably posting in the same threads and attending the same events, and I'm not even certain of that.

 

ETA: Now I'm wondering if there's a way to incorporate this whole idea into a cache.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Dinoprophet

[+Rockin Roddy]

Reminds me of a cache we "placed" for our Lazy Hayes Days event. We had gone out and took coords for several locations, made plans and gathered up the containers. Time came to place these (we'd already had them reviewed and being held in queue for the day of the event) and I had to work! I entrusted my caching partners Tod and KAboom to finish up while I worked, but they forgot this one cache!

 

Well, we disabled it until later after the event. The day came to place the cache and we enabled it before heading out, no thought that someone might be wanting that FTF. When we arrived at GZ, we were met by another prolific FTF'r who had been searching strenuously (judging by the sweat and dirt on his clothes)..."Here's what you are looking for" Tod yelled out as we approached!

 

We just handed it to him and told him to hide it when done...and he did! Right where we had planned to place it! We all walked out together laughing about that one!

 

Cache name (I think) was "Get to the Point" if anyone wants to read the funny log, I'm too lazy this AM to look though...sorry!

[+Clarkbowman]

I think geocaching is gonna need a couple of new sites: velcro-caching (for those who hunt the remnant velcro attachments of missing caches), and now psychic caching (for those who hunt the place the cache is gonna be...).

 

I'd guess psychic caching has the larger growth potential. With velcro caching, you're limited to actual missing caches, but psychic caching! egads, the world and all its parts are opened to finds.

 

 

Ibelieve I know where the next 10 in this area are going to be placed, So can I claim them now before they are even created

 

psychic caching can be fun,

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

I'm of mind that it's a FTF...no one here has ever been given a guided tour of a cache placement before???

 

No, I've never been given a guided tour of a cache placement, at least not one that I'd ever even consider claiming an FTF on.

 

I would also never log a find on a cache that I didn't actually find the container/logbook.

 

I think the above situation is interesting and warrants a note, but not a Find/FTF. However, these are the guidelines I play by, and others are free to play by their own guidelines.

[+Guinness70]

whats next... dropping logbooks as swag with the first find is already filled in with yer name...

 

-//- Ever hear of beta testers?-//-

beta testers check out/find the "container" (notice i dont use the term cache here yet ) BEFORE it is published.

 

its like a journalist doing a testrun/demonstration run on a race track just before the race, he doesnt claim he won the race does he.

 

overhere in Belgium the beta tester will log online well AFTER the podium, as 4th at the earliest.

[Mushtang]

Another example of something that I wouldn't do if I was a finder, nor would I allow if I was a hider, but it's definitely not something I'll care about others doing and I can't understand why anyone else would be bothered by it either.

 

But you're allowed to be bothered if you want.

[+Rockin Roddy]

whats next... dropping logbooks as swag with the first find is already filled in with yer name...

 

-//- Ever hear of beta testers?-//-

beta testers check out/find the "container" (notice i dont use the term cache here yet ) BEFORE it is published.

 

its like a journalist doing a testrun/demonstration run on a race track just before the race, he doesnt claim he won the race does he.

 

overhere in Belgium the beta tester will log online well AFTER the podium, as 4th at the earliest.

 

hmmm...cache was found by someone...they were FTF regardless of where they sign the logbook! That's what has been said time after time by many of the same people who are posting here. Whether they want to claim an FTF or not, the testers ARE FTF. Whether we agree that Rattrak did or didn't find the cache first has nothing to do with the truth, he did find the cache and he was first. Logging online first has nothing to do with the FTF by the way. Also, was it said this wasn't published when Rattrak and Brummel went out?? I might have missed that part.

 

As for the comment from CGS...Rattrak OBVIOUSLY found the container, he was WITH the owner when it was placed. He also signed the logbook, so you're a little off with that. Would you have rathered he simply closed his eyes while the owner hid it as the owner first proposed?? I liked the approach taken.

 

I HIGHLY doubt Rattrak took any FTF prize Brummel was offering, so did it hurt anyone save those that are also FTF seekers?? If you're a true FTF seeker, you'd KNOW you wouldn't be claiming an FTF as someone else OBVIOUSLY already found it! I believe this has been pointed out many times in threads much like this.

 

Since this was a fun trip between friends and I doubt this happens very often, it's not like it's the doom of FTFing...is it?

 

And Guiness, you'd be surprised at some of the things I've seen....to each their own! Life is just too short to be worried about this!

[+steve p]

I can beat that! I am the FTF on a cache that hasn't been thought of yet. I have predicted the exact location where it will be placed on Feb. 30th 2009, even though I don't know who is going to put it there. Unfortunetly I have no way of logging it yet, and I haven't found the TB I am going to drop in to it.

"Feb. 30"

Good one!

[+Team GeoBlast]

I see that Winnie and Taz are not having fun stirring trouble in their own club and now feel they must sling mud publically in the GC forums? Is this the best you have?? Why didn't you post this in the MiGO forums...where people understand your reasoning for posting such dribble? What's funny, you guys jumped right onto the bandwagon letting the sensationalism of the title lead you to believe something underhanded was afoot here!

 

If you all read the log again and keep an open mind, you might understand that these guys are good friends and cache together often. Since the 'Bear was placing the cache and Rattrak was with him, why not allow him to go after it first? Ever hear of beta testers? YES, Rattrak is a HUGE FTF hound, he has a LOT!! He has traveled long distances to make FTF finds, he's even FTF'd a few of mine and I'm at least an hour+ from his home area!!

 

The fact that Rattrak was able to go out and find the location before the placement is amazing to me, show's just how much of friends these two are! Great minds think alike, and these are two of the greats! My guess, after Rattrak described the location, Brummel and he went out to the spot where Brummel showed Ratrak the coords...which were right where Rattrak described!

 

As I read it, Brummelbear already had the coords for the location, already knew where he was going to place it. They were going out caching AND to place a cache. Brummel was already going to allow Rattrak a chance to find the cache, so Rattrak wanted to make it a challenge and find the location before the placement...which, if I'm reading this correctly, happened! Since Rattrak had no prior knowledge other than being led close to the area (and it didn't sound like it was too close, but I could be mistaken), I'm of mind that it's a FTF...no one here has ever been given a guided tour of a cache placement before???

 

I guess now, as I'll likely be thrown mud at for guiding them out, I'll have to scrap my idea of leading a big group out for an FTF of my recently hidden night cache? I mean, I'll be with them and will be showing them the way (while letting them do as much work as I can possibly handle without dying laughing of course). As I see it, Rattrak did more of a find than what the group will as he went in alone and did as he suggested...to the satisfaction of the owner!

 

And Kohavis, my guess is that Rattrak did sign the logbook, I know these guys and will be happy to vouch for their honesty!

 

This is pretty much what I was alluding to. Was it really necessary to call this person out in the national forums for violating some non-existent FTF law?

 

A few others have also rightly pointed out that for the whole FTF game is nothing but an annoyance to many cachers. I personally don't care one way or the other until I see posts like this where this badge of honor is important to some person that it is deemed necessary to hang another cacher out to dry in a national forum.

[+Buggheart]

Another example of something that I wouldn't do if I was a finder, nor would I allow if I was a hider, but it's definitely not something I'll care about others doing and I can't understand why anyone else would be bothered by it either.

 

But you're allowed to be bothered if you want.

 

It's not something that bothers me either, but I agree with Mushtang that it's not something I'd allow if I was a hider. I cache with my mom and while it would be tempting to take her along while I hide a cache I would likely not even tell her about it until after it was hidden. And knowing her she would not want to have any sort of advance knowledge or upper hand. When we cache together and one of us has previously found the cache our rule is that the other person keep their mouth shut unless the other person asks for a hint.

 

Rattrak and the others mentioned in this thread are geocaching legends in this area. They've found darn near everything locally as well as around the state so when a new cache is published one can pretty much rest assured that Rattrak or a handful of other cachers will be FTF. Being FTF in our area is a really big thing and has become extremely competitive. They frequently all converge on the new cache at once and I can imagine them tripping each other trying to be FTF. I had the honor and pleasure of meeting and caching with Rattrak and some of these local heavy hitters at a party on Saturday and had a great time getting inside their minds and talking about geocaching. I don't think it has a thing to do with feeling superior than others. They were the nicest guys I've ever met and it bothers me somewhat to see him being specifically mentioned here. They are also very competitive and intense about this activity that they all love so much so if they want to drop everything and run out for a FTF and knock each other over trying to get to it, I say go for it. I would have no doubt that Rattrak would be the FTF even if they were not there at the time of placement. I had my 1st FTF a few weeks ago and, although it was not in Rattrak's general area, I fully expected to find that he beat me to the FTF when I got there.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Buggheart

[+wimseyguy]

Sounds like a harmless case of fun with two geopals playing out in the woods. Interesting that the OP hasn't returned to stir the pot some more since they started the thread.

 

Even though I am far from a FTF'r, (perhaps .05% of my finds meet the official criteria ), I had a similar experience once. Before an event, series of micros were placed all over town with one digit of the final bonus cache's coords. Our team finished the tour and were searching all the likely hidey holes for the cache when the owner appeared at the top of the hill carrying the ammo can! There were several likely spots that it could have been placed in, and I'm quite sure we looked at all of them as we beat him to the spot by 15 minutes.

[+J-Way]

Another example of something that I wouldn't do if I was a finder, nor would I allow if I was a hider, but it's definitely not something I'll care about others doing and I can't understand why anyone else would be bothered by it either.

 

But you're allowed to be bothered if you want.

That's pretty much what I was going to say. I'll also add that I thought it was an interesting story, and a excellent log (much better than "FTF!!! TNLNSL, TFTC!"

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I'd like to point out that while this goes against common sense, there is not a person here going tee-hee-hee that can point to an official written guideline that says it is not a FTF.

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

The find didn't satisfy item #2 which requires the find be signed off or initialed in the cache's logbook to be a genuine "find".

Not true. The finder clearly stated in his online find log that he signed the logbook, and other elements of the tale back up that assertion. I am not sure why you have decided, after the fact, that the finder did not sign the logbook. Looks like you did not read the log entry closely.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I think geocaching is gonna need a couple of new sites: velcro-caching (for those who hunt the remnant velcro attachments of missing caches), and now psychic caching (for those who hunt the place the cache is gonna be...).

 

I'd guess psychic caching has the larger growth potential. With velcro caching, you're limited to actual missing caches, but psychic caching! egads, the world and all its parts are opened to finds.

 

 

Ibelieve I know where the next 10 in this area are going to be placed, So can I claim them now before they are even created

 

psychic caching can be fun,

Well, on the topic of psychic caching, I have a tale for you that comes close, although it was not technically about the type of pure psychic caching that you meant... There actually was a cacher who claimed to do his cache finds by psychic means who was active on geocaching.com, and a frequent topic in the forum, a few years ago. He went by the name "HarryKrishna", and he logged all his finds as finds accomplished via "astral projection". He and his astral projection find antics were discussed quite widely at the time on the Groundspeak forum and on some local forums across the country, and he became a bit of a mini-celebrity.

 

In the latter half of 2005, in the wake of my having had some (friendly) discussions with him on the forum and via PM and email, he logged a find on one of our caches, hidden in a wilderness forest, named Sitting and Waiting. Here is my log note, dated September 30, 2005, about his find, which had been filed earlier that day:

Let the record show that on September 30, 2005, the famed "astral travel" cacher HarryKrishna (reportedly a professor of religious studies in California real life) logged a find via "astral projection" on this cache after a (pleasant) online dialogue with me via the Groundspeak forums, PM and email. Unfortunately, once I read the actual online find log, I was forced to delete it, not because of the astral travel nature of the find, but because the account holder, who seems to be having an ongoing "war of words" with another cacher in his area, left a note in his find log, along with an image attached to the log -- both aimed at his online geo-foe -- that could easily have been interpreted as being derogatory and racist. Thus, I deleted the offensive find log entry, but I contacted HarryKrishna via email and invited him to re-file his find if he would simply leave out the questionable invectives and image aimed at his online foe.

 

Late update notes: It appears, as of mid-2008, that HarryKrishna has never chosen to re-log his astral projection find. Further, it appears that he apparently disabled his Groundspeak account sometime in mid or late 2006.

Unfortunately, the last few times that I have attempted to access HarryKrishna's account via the "Find Another Player/Enter a Username to Look Up" feature on the geoaching.com site, I receive simply the message that he invalidated the account, rendering it inaccessible. There is, of course, as I have detailed in past posts, a back-door way to access such "invalidated" accounts, but I do not have the interest, the time or the energy to try that method! Shame! I would have loved to have taken a peek to see how many finds he ultimately logged, and to find out when he became inactive.

[+Renegade Knight]

This guy is a rank amateur. I found the next 3000 caches before the owners even bought the container, never mind where they were going to place it. That’s right. My FTF log is in each ammo can at the surplus store.

[+maldar]

I don't really know how I fell about the log. On one hand it is a beta-test, but on the other we all know that the GPSr only gets you within 20-30 feet most of the time and then you still need to find the cache. He found the spot that it was to be place and then it was placed. Same basic thing, just a bit different.

 

maldar

[knowschad]

It's a GAME, people. If these guys were doing this as a regular practice, we might have something to comlain about, but from everything that I can see, it was a one-time fun thing... really just a prank. Let it go for Pete's sake!

 

[comfortablynumb63]

The sad truth is in an area north of Kansas City, it seems that one group of cachers always has "inside" info on the new placements, and have claimed most of the FTFs for the caches hidden near our home.

 

One particular cache comes to mind. The cache literally was posted on a Friday evening at 8:47PM. in an area that is closed to the public at dark (it was in the winter). We decided to hike to the cache since it was literally in our back yard (and we have access by property rights. at 9:15PM, we were on the cache, which not only had been signed by this group (how they traveled 9 miles down a busy county road, and hiked into the woods at least 1/2 mile in the dark), but another cacher who frequently accompanies them.

 

After that, we canceled our "premium" membership and notifications. We gave up on FTF's because of this obvious advantage that some cachers seem to have the FTFs.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

The sad truth is in an area north of Kansas City, it seems that one group of cachers always has "inside" info on the new placements, and have claimed most of the FTFs for the caches hidden near our home.

 

One particular cache comes to mind. The cache literally was posted on a Friday evening at 8:47PM. in an area that is closed to the public at dark (it was in the winter). We decided to hike to the cache since it was literally in our back yard (and we have access by property rights. at 9:15PM, we were on the cache, which not only had been signed by this group (how they traveled 9 miles down a busy county road, and hiked into the woods at least 1/2 mile in the dark), but another cacher who frequently accompanies them.

 

After that, we canceled our "premium" membership and notifications. We gave up on FTF's because of this obvious advantage that some cachers seem to have the FTFs.

Unless ALL of the new caches in your area are placed by a small "insider" group of geo-friends who share the coordinates for EACH and EVERY such cache pre-publication among themselves, or unless ALL of the cache hiders in your area are announcing the cache waypoint coordinates, pre-publication, on the forum of a local geocaching society (in which case, you could go take a peek as well, if you wished) I find it incredibly hard to believe that there is any veracity to your statement to the effect that

The sad truth is in an area north of Kansas City, it seems that one group of cachers always has "inside" info on the new placements, and have claimed most of the FTFs for the caches hidden near our home.

And, as for your example of the hide in the park adjoining your home, that is only one example, and it falls into the first category which I noted above, and I am sure that such things happen occasionally with new caches all across the world at times, but they are more the exception than the rule. And, I should also note, such actions do not break any rules.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I think geocaching is gonna need a couple of new sites: velcro-caching (for those who hunt the remnant velcro attachments of missing caches), and now psychic caching (for those who hunt the place the cache is gonna be...).

 

I'd guess psychic caching has the larger growth potential. With velcro caching, you're limited to actual missing caches, but psychic caching! egads, the world and all its parts are opened to finds.

 

Velcro caching (or magnet caching in my area, because it's too cold for velcro to stick to anything, long term) is as beaten as a dead horse. I vote for psychic caching.

 

And Why not? We've already got psycho caching (wave to Vinnie & Sue)

 

Normally the whole FTF race doesn't bother me but there was a cache placed a month or so ago that not only required a boat to get to the location, but was hidden underwater. The cache owners daughter found it the next day. She mentioned in her log that she helped place the cache and came back the next day to "find it" and logged a FTF. Good boat only accessible caches are not that frequent and caches underwater even less so. For a cache such as this, FTF actually means something as there will likely be very few people that ever find it at all.

[+Rattrak]

Heeheehee!

I love that the one who posted this thread has once again put me in the spotlight. Not just here in Michigan this time, cool! Being a bit flamboyant in my own way this thread is nothing more than sending attention my way, weather in a good light or a bad, I love it! Thank you for the free publicity.

 

I like the statement from Clan Riffster “If Brummelbear and/or Rattrak ever wake up one morning suddenly giving a hoot about the opinion of some ol' fat crippled guy wearing a smelly hat in Florida”. Yep, a bit out of context but I love this statement as I feel like that same guy up here in Michigan some days. Just like him I don’t give a hoot about what some others think of me, especially those that do not know me.

 

Thank you to the MiGO (Michigan Geocaching Organization for bring this thread to my attention as I never just go look at the GC fourms, to busy finding caches (FTF’s of course, LOL!!!), placing caches (yes, check the stats, 209 caches and events!) and finding other ways to contribute to this sport that I love so much!

 

Not being big on defending myself (as I would rather watch the fireworks from the sidelines, okay, and starting some as well, LOL), I would like to set a few things out there that may help to understand the way it went down. As for checking back on this thread to see response, probably won’t happen as I have much else to do. If anyone wants me to see something (not saying this ol’ fat guy will give a hoot, LOL) just e-mail me and when I get the time I do read each and every one that comes in, response time is not always good though (too many FTF’s to chase you know).

 

To clear up a few things about this cache in question. This was not a beta, the cache had already been published. The problem was it was muggled before it was found. Brummelbear had another location nearby that he had the co-ords for and decided to move the cache rather than have another go missing from the original spot. He offered to have me say back as it was placed and then I could go looking for it as I was the first to show up there. I wanted to have fun with it, hence my actions, haha, what a concept, having fun with friends while geocaching! LOL!

 

This may sound like a defense so I apologize in advance. The truth is Brummelbear and I spend a lot of time caching together. I never go for the FTF on one of his caches that I know is on the horizon; it would not be fair to do so. I had no idea of the 5 new ones that were published that morning. I also still do not get anything more than an e-mail alert to my computer (yep, only the computer, not that cool cell phone alert like all the fancy cachers do!). That morning I happened to be doing work on the computer when all of these were published. I had found a couple before calling Brummelbear as he lives within a mile of the placements.

 

I have seen a lot of things in this game including, as has been stated, where a cacher is searching out a FTF cache and the placer shows up with it in their hand. It is still a find either way as they would have found it anyhow; the hunt is what the game is. It also is amusing to me how others can jump into a forum like this and slam others, must be their means of “Fun Geocaching”! I say, have fun then!

 

I will leave now with a cute little inside story for the wife and husband that post this thread. Remember that time you did not want me to get the FTF on one of your caches? I still have the log photo and the cache page you gave to the 2 cachers (who were your friends at the time) that signed the cache (while I was at that park at the time) the day before it was published. They offered it to me but I waited until the cache was published before hunting it out though I was at the park and could have found it then. Well that is an old story (what a year and a half) so it does not count for me to “call the kettle black”.

Oh how I love this game.

 

Thanks for the read, again I can be contacted through e-mail, sorry am not a forum guy.

Enjoy and Happy Caching!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Heeheehee!

I love that the one who posted this thread has once again put me in the spotlight. Not just here in Michigan this time, cool! Being a bit flamboyant in my own way this thread is nothing more than sending attention my way, weather in a good light or a bad, I love it! Thank you for the free publicity.

 

I like the statement from Clan Riffster “If Brummelbear and/or Rattrak ever wake up one morning suddenly giving a hoot about the opinion of some ol' fat crippled guy wearing a smelly hat in Florida”. Yep, a bit out of context but I love this statement as I feel like that same guy up here in Michigan some days. Just like him I don’t give a hoot about what some others think of me, especially those that do not know me.

 

Thank you to the MiGO (Michigan Geocaching Organization for bring this thread to my attention as I never just go look at the GC fourms, to busy finding caches (FTF’s of course, LOL!!!), placing caches (yes, check the stats, 209 caches and events!) and finding other ways to contribute to this sport that I love so much!

 

Not being big on defending myself (as I would rather watch the fireworks from the sidelines, okay, and starting some as well, LOL), I would like to set a few things out there that may help to understand the way it went down. As for checking back on this thread to see response, probably won’t happen as I have much else to do. If anyone wants me to see something (not saying this ol’ fat guy will give a hoot, LOL) just e-mail me and when I get the time I do read each and every one that comes in, response time is not always good though (too many FTF’s to chase you know).

 

To clear up a few things about this cache in question. This was not a beta, the cache had already been published. The problem was it was muggled before it was found. Brummelbear had another location nearby that he had the co-ords for and decided to move the cache rather than have another go missing from the original spot. He offered to have me say back as it was placed and then I could go looking for it as I was the first to show up there. I wanted to have fun with it, hence my actions, haha, what a concept, having fun with friends while geocaching! LOL!

 

This may sound like a defense so I apologize in advance. The truth is Brummelbear and I spend a lot of time caching together. I never go for the FTF on one of his caches that I know is on the horizon; it would not be fair to do so. I had no idea of the 5 new ones that were published that morning. I also still do not get anything more than an e-mail alert to my computer (yep, only the computer, not that cool cell phone alert like all the fancy cachers do!). That morning I happened to be doing work on the computer when all of these were published. I had found a couple before calling Brummelbear as he lives within a mile of the placements.

 

I have seen a lot of things in this game including, as has been stated, where a cacher is searching out a FTF cache and the placer shows up with it in their hand. It is still a find either way as they would have found it anyhow; the hunt is what the game is. It also is amusing to me how others can jump into a forum like this and slam others, must be their means of “Fun Geocaching”! I say, have fun then!

 

I will leave now with a cute little inside story for the wife and husband that post this thread. Remember that time you did not want me to get the FTF on one of your caches? I still have the log photo and the cache page you gave to the 2 cachers (who were your friends at the time) that signed the cache (while I was at that park at the time) the day before it was published. They offered it to me but I waited until the cache was published before hunting it out though I was at the park and could have found it then. Well that is an old story (what a year and a half) so it does not count for me to “call the kettle black”.

Oh how I love this game.

 

Thanks for the read, again I can be contacted through e-mail, sorry am not a forum guy.

Enjoy and Happy Caching!

Rattrak, I enjoyed your post, and your attitude sounds a lot like mine, not only in the realms of geocaching, but in all realms of life. When I am "attacked" by self-styled "critics", I never bother to defend myself or to argue, and, at most, I may show up once, briefly, to present a few facts, and then slip back into the background to watch. The reality is that any kind of spotlight, whether showing us in a supposedly in a good light or bad light, in reality simply gives us more publicity/exposure, and simply adds to the fun! None of this is to be resisted, but rather, it is only to be enjoyed!

 

I happen to be very active on the web in a number of fields entirely outside of the realm of geocaching, and have gained a reputation for having expertise in a number of odd fields in the sciences and related realms, and also in some areas of spiritual interest as well. And, due to this fact, there are not only websites which talk about me and my work in a so-called positive light, but also a number of bloggers and small websites which claim that I am a fraud, a wolf in sheep's clothing sent as a shadowy disinformation agent of the CIA or the Illuminati, and there are even those on the web who claim that I am an embodiment of Satan on earth, and who call upon their disciples to "do something about him...", and others who claim that I am evil incarnate. It amazes some of my friends and colleagues that I never try to respond to these people, that I never try to defend myself or my so-called "reputation", and rather, that I simply sit back and enjoy the show! So, I much enjoyed reading your post, because your approach to life sounds a lot like mine!

 

I will give you just one funny example from my own life, this one from the geocaching world. Quite a while back, a local cacher, who had previously been mired in a bit of controversy himself over one of his hides and also about some of his so-called "attitudes" (I personally never had any problem with his attitudes, and instead, was always on cordial terms with him), started a thread on the Groundspeak forum wherein he claimed that one of my Psycho cache hides was blatantly illegal and would cause lots of trouble. He even mentioned on the forums (Groundspeak and local) that he had called the local police about the matter, trying to see if they would get riled up about the hide (they reportedly yawned and told him to stop worrying); a number of local cachers took great offense at this behavior and decided that he was trying to get my cache hide "busted" by the police, and they started to attack him verbally on the forums. Within hours of his post and thread hitting the Groundspeak forum, sides had been taken by lots of cachers, particularly by lots of local cachers, and some local geocachers even formed a list group for people who "hated" this cacher.

 

As for myself, I was blissfully unaware of the entire matter for the first 12 hours that the firestorm was unfolding on the various forums, for a dear friend was visiting me from out of state, and I had taken her out to dinner (at a great Middle Eastern restaurant with a belly dancer) and then out on the town for the night. I got home late that night to find a message from a local reviewer asking me why I had not responded to the brouhaha about my cache on the forums, and asking me if I was gonna defend myself. Once alerted, I chose to simply ignore the whole matter, and to sit on the sidelines and watch it all unfold, enjoying every moment of it.

 

The ONLY time that I did jump into the fray was when a number of local "old guard" cachers started to gang up on the cacher in question on the local forums, kinda akin to the old high school social games of "us versus them" and "you are the enemy; we hate you because you are not one of us". At that point, I jumped in briefly, reminded everyone involved that I had no beef at all with the cacher in question, and asked them all to please back off and to stop vilifying him. I then turned around and sent the cacher in question a private email, reminding him once again that the whole so-called "issue" meant nothing to me, and asking him out to dinner (at a really nice Middle Eastern restaurant in town, in fact the same one that I had been sitting in when the whole drama had first unfolded on the forums...) as my treat, so that we could laugh about the whole matter and talk about lots of other things. This dinner invitation eventually led to a wonderful, sincere and heartfelt chat between the cacher and myself about a wider range of meaningful topics, and no, the matter that everyone else was so concerned about never even arose for either of us; it was long gone.

 

I also mentioned my dinner invitation to the cacher in question on the local forums, and wouldn't you know it, several of the die-hard old-timers contacted me privately to ask me how in the world I could be so non-reactive and so free of angst about the matter, and some wondered if I was insane. I simply replied that there was nothing at all to get upset about, and in fact, the whole little drama had actually led to the watchlist count for each of the two caches in question rising by about 40 watchers. Nothing bad ever came of the incident, despite all the worries and fears of people on both sides of the heated "debate".

Edited October 6, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+markandsandy]

Heeheehee!

...

Oh how I love this game.

 

Thanks for the read, again I can be contacted through e-mail, sorry am not a forum guy.

Enjoy and Happy Caching!

Rattrak, I enjoyed your post, ...

 

... and there are even those on the web who claim that I am an embodiment of Satan on earth, ...

 

 

Above quotes edited for brevity. Please read the originals if you haven't already.

 

Rattrak,

I also greatly enjoyed your post, and have to agree with Vinny on this. Can't see what everyone is getting worked up about. And to be totally honest, the muggle who found the original cache could be considered the true FTF!

 

 

By the way, Vinny is actually Sioneva's sock puppet, but he doesn't know it.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Heeheehee!

...

Oh how I love this game.

 

Thanks for the read, again I can be contacted through e-mail, sorry am not a forum guy.

Enjoy and Happy Caching!

Rattrak, I enjoyed your post, ...

 

... and there are even those on the web who claim that I am an embodiment of Satan on earth, ...

 

 

Above quotes edited for brevity. Please read the originals if you haven't already.

 

Rattrak,

I also greatly enjoyed your post, and have to agree with Vinny on this. Can't see what everyone is getting worked up about. And to be totally honest, the muggle who found the original cache could be considered the true FTF!

 

 

By the way, Vinny is actually Sioneva's sock puppet, but he doesn't know it.

Well, Vinny kind had a flash of realization about that today, and he is still in shock, unable to write anything. For all he is, is my evil sock puppet.

 

--Sioneva, aka Sionevil

[+markandsandy]

Heeheehee!

...

Oh how I love this game.

 

Thanks for the read, again I can be contacted through e-mail, sorry am not a forum guy.

Enjoy and Happy Caching!

Rattrak, I enjoyed your post, ...

 

... and there are even those on the web who claim that I am an embodiment of Satan on earth, ...

 

 

Above quotes edited for brevity. Please read the originals if you haven't already.

 

Rattrak,

I also greatly enjoyed your post, and have to agree with Vinny on this. Can't see what everyone is getting worked up about. And to be totally honest, the muggle who found the original cache could be considered the true FTF!

 

 

By the way, Vinny is actually Sioneva's sock puppet, but he doesn't know it.

Well, Vinny kind had a flash of realization about that today, and he is still in shock, unable to write anything. For all he is, is my evil sock puppet.

 

--Sioneva, aka Sionevil

 

Vinny? Speechless? Wow!

[AZcachemeister]

No matter how he did it, if he signed the log first, he is the FTF.

I can't begin to express how little I care if he did or not.

[+PJPeters]

From the thread: Do you feel its Appropriate to Name Chronic Serial False Loggers, on the forum when discussing their odd behaviors?

Have we as cache-rs become our fellow cache-rs keeper? Some of us seem to be to concerned about other cache-rs finds and like to rat these people out. I am of the opinion that there are cheaters in every game and what one does in this caching community and all over the world is their business. I am so concerned that others are making this wonderful family sport a mockery as to what it was intended to be. Sweep out your own back door and then judge other as to how they play the game......It's their game. No matter how we all dislike the ones that cheat on their caching finds, it will never end. Get a grip, this is not rocket science. Just a fun game if one minds their own business.

Huh?

 

This is the same person that's outing somebody for 'cheating'?

 

Talk about stirring the 'honeypot'...

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

Heeheehee!

 

Being a bit flamboyant in my own way this thread is nothing more than sending attention my way, weather in a good light or a bad, I love it! Thank you for the free publicity.

 

Ah my friend, I just knew you would take the high road.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+twins&dad]

From the thread: Do you feel its Appropriate to Name Chronic Serial False Loggers, on the forum when discussing their odd behaviors?

Have we as cache-rs become our fellow cache-rs keeper? Some of us seem to be to concerned about other cache-rs finds and like to rat these people out. I am of the opinion that there are cheaters in every game and what one does in this caching community and all over the world is their business. I am so concerned that others are making this wonderful family sport a mockery as to what it was intended to be. Sweep out your own back door and then judge other as to how they play the game......It's their game. No matter how we all dislike the ones that cheat on their caching finds, it will never end. Get a grip, this is not rocket science. Just a fun game if one minds their own business.

Huh?

 

This is the same person that's outing somebody for 'cheating'?

 

Talk about stirring the 'honeypot'...

 

Not the first time and sure not the last that they have done this. Always more fun to stir the pot then to try and have fun. Been a really good read/laugh thanks to all that have participated in the enjoyment!

[+Sioneva]

Heeheehee!

...

Oh how I love this game.

 

Thanks for the read, again I can be contacted through e-mail, sorry am not a forum guy.

Enjoy and Happy Caching!

Rattrak, I enjoyed your post, ...

 

... and there are even those on the web who claim that I am an embodiment of Satan on earth, ...

 

 

Above quotes edited for brevity. Please read the originals if you haven't already.

 

Rattrak,

I also greatly enjoyed your post, and have to agree with Vinny on this. Can't see what everyone is getting worked up about. And to be totally honest, the muggle who found the original cache could be considered the true FTF!

 

 

By the way, Vinny is actually Sioneva's sock puppet, but he doesn't know it.

Well, Vinny kind had a flash of realization about that today, and he is still in shock, unable to write anything. For all he is, is my evil sock puppet.

 

--Sioneva, aka Sionevil

 

Even though I am still in shock over the realization, as of today, I stand by my post - it's always unexpectedly pleasant to read a levelheaded response to a rant directed at oneself. Kudos, Rattrak!

 

I'm off to do evil sock-puppety things now!

 

--------------------

Vinny

Psycho Urban Caches

We may be found in the book Open Your Heart With Geocaching by Jeanette Cezanne (Angevine)

"Every breath you take is the breath of God" -- Father Theophane Boyd, OCSO, Christian mystic.

"You are very evil. You are like a black hole of evilness. You probably have a PhD in Horribleness." - Sioneva

Happy member of MGS

rev 3.3

[+Bushlight]

I'm going to place a cache in that big tree in my front yard if anybody wants claim it.

[+hukilaulau]

I gave up reading after about the first dozen posts or so, but my initial thought was, "That's pretty cool!"

Then I read RockinRoddy's explanation and that's just about what I imagined. What this guy did is a lot more clever than the excruciatingly lame attempts at humor through sarcasm that this thread is laced with.

[+Celtic Cache Trio]

I stopped reading this after Rattrak's post. I just want to say that I know a bit of the history between the cacher that started this thread and Rattrak and will chalk it up to strictly no more than history. It is dis-heartining to see that a cacher as forthright as Rattrak is being bashed in a public forum. I know Rattrak a bit and I consider him a close friend and I know he is a very straight shooter and caches with more integrity than anyone I know.

 

I know on many occasions, as example, He has drove to a park and waited outside the park for sun up, just to stay within guidelines.

 

I think we should all consider the source, get the whole story and consider the subject of this thread.

[+Celtic Cache Trio]

I stopped reading this after Rattrak's post. I just want to say that I know a bit of the history between the cacher that started this thread and Rattrak and will chalk it up to strictly no more than history. It is dis-heartining to see that a cacher as forthright as Rattrak is being bashed in a public forum. I know Rattrak a bit and I consider him a close friend and I know he is a very straight shooter and caches with more integrity than anyone I know.

 

I know on many occasions, as example, He has drove to a park and waited outside the park for sun up, just to stay within guidelines.

 

I think we should all consider the source, get the whole story and consider the subject of this thread.