Permission for Earth Cache?

[+ArtieD]

There is a conservation area nearby with a fairly unique geological phenomena there and I would like to place my first earthcache there to bring visitors there to experience it.

 

What I wish to know is...is permission required to place such a cache there since there is no physical container?

 

Thanks.

[+Renegade Knight]

There is a conservation area nearby with a fairly unique geological phenomena there and I would like to place my first earthcache there to bring visitors there to experience it.

 

What I wish to know is...is permission required to place such a cache there since there is no physical container?

 

Thanks.

All EarthCaches require permission. Without the permission it won't be approved.

[+OEnavigators]

They have the submittal guidelines listed at EarthCache.org.

Edited October 3, 2008 by OEnavigators

[+Lovey Pigs]

you will need to provide a contact person and/or permit number for an earthcache. it's on part of the form you submit for approval. If you meet with someone and explain out what an earthcache is, etc.... hopefully you will get permission. good luck!!

[+DOC.]

Do you still have to jump through the same approval hoops if it is a rock with an informational marker at a public wayside rest on the side of the highway?

[+Rev Mike]

Do you still have to jump through the same approval hoops if it is a rock with an informational marker at a public wayside rest on the side of the highway?

 

Yes.

All EarthCaches require permission from the owner of the land.

In that case I would imagine it would be a regional office of the (whatever state) Dept. of Transportation.

 

- Rev Mike

[Neos2]

Do you still have to jump through the same approval hoops if it is a rock with an informational marker at a public wayside rest on the side of the highway?

Is there public parking at the marker?

[+DOC.]

Yes, there is public parking near the marker. Bathrooms, too! Yippy, skippy!

 

It just seems really odd that everyone in the world can walk up to this marker and read the information, as it is posted to educate the public. The placement of this marker for the public's edification already gives permission for it to be looked at. Why would secondary permission be required for "public domain" ?

 

Just curious. Kinda like we already have access to public records. It would be like asking the courthouse clerk for permission to see something which we already have access to.

[+TerryDad2]

It just seems really odd that everyone in the world can walk up to this marker and read the information, as it is posted to educate the public. The placement of this marker for the public's edification already gives permission for it to be looked at. Why would secondary permission be required for "public domain" ?

You are not asking permission to visit the site. You are asking permission to list the site on a website to get people to come and visit the location. While your location it appears obvious that visitors are welcome and encouraged, there are other less black and white situations. It is easier for a guideline to be applied in all situations than provide a long list of exceptions. That would just be inviting arguments about when and where permission is needed.

 

There is also a liability issue from GSA point of view. See this thread.

[+DOC.]

Thank you for the information and the link. Interesting reading and glad to see I am not the only one frustrated. It was very helpful to read the lists of where to begin and what Geoaware's points of view were. Did my official EC duty today and dove into the DOT - a few calls later, and voila', the official papal permission.

 

As a practicing doctor involved in the medicolegal field, I do appreciate the nuances of Liability and what that can mean in a lawsuit if an injury is involved. It is a litigous society out there! And we don't want to lose EarthCaching.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Okay. Finally got the opportunity to work on the EarthCaches I want to put out. And, then came the dreaded 'written permission'. Drove another fifteen minutes to the Park Headquarters. "I'd like to speak to someone about putting out a couple of EarthCaches." Turns out that the park superintendent is a geocacher, loves geocaching,and knows about EarthCaches!! Whew! She'll e-mail the permission in a few days. We also chatted about the new trail blazes that she has been working on. She should get to the trail I maintain soon, and we'll go out and put up the new printed blazes together.

All in all, a great day!

[+Rev Mike]

Okay. Finally got the opportunity to work on the EarthCaches I want to put out. And, then came the dreaded 'written permission'. Drove another fifteen minutes to the Park Headquarters. "I'd like to speak to someone about putting out a couple of EarthCaches." Turns out that the park superintendent is a geocacher, loves geocaching,and knows about EarthCaches!! Whew! She'll e-mail the permission in a few days. We also chatted about the new trail blazes that she has been working on. She should get to the trail I maintain soon, and we'll go out and put up the new printed blazes together.

All in all, a great day!

 

Well done.

Glad that went so smoothly for you.

 

I am currently butting heads with the NPS about an EarthCache I am developing.

They like the idea and have no problem with it but no one person is willing to say "I am the one that gives permission."

 

- Rev Mike

Edited October 10, 2008 by Rev Mike

[+TerryDad2]

Okay. Finally got the opportunity to work on the EarthCaches I want to put out. And, then came the dreaded 'written permission'. Drove another fifteen minutes to the Park Headquarters. "I'd like to speak to someone about putting out a couple of EarthCaches." Turns out that the park superintendent is a geocacher, loves geocaching,and knows about EarthCaches!! Whew! She'll e-mail the permission in a few days. We also chatted about the new trail blazes that she has been working on. She should get to the trail I maintain soon, and we'll go out and put up the new printed blazes together.

All in all, a great day!

That is great to have a geocacher in charge of a park. Great stroke of luck. Good job.

 

I am currently butting heads with the NPS about an EarthCache I am developing.

They like the idea and have no problem with it but no one person is willing to say "I am the one that gives permission."

I haven't come across that one yet. Do the people at the park know that the DC folks of the NPS have approved the concept and are partners in the program. Maybe they want someone in DC to be the name on the approval

 

I may actually have some positive movment at Yosemite. They are researching how I've worked with other parks. It has only been about 6 months since I first contacted them.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Okay. Finally got the opportunity to work on the EarthCaches I want to put out. And, then came the dreaded 'written permission'. Drove another fifteen minutes to the Park Headquarters. "I'd like to speak to someone about putting out a couple of EarthCaches." Turns out that the park superintendent is a geocacher, loves geocaching,and knows about EarthCaches!! Whew! She'll e-mail the permission in a few days. We also chatted about the new trail blazes that she has been working on. She should get to the trail I maintain soon, and we'll go out and put up the new printed blazes together.

All in all, a great day!

That is great to have a geocacher in charge of a park. Great stroke of luck. Good job.

 

Ah. Hmm... Maybe there's a big difference between verbal and written permission? I waited a few weeks, and heard nothing back. So I wrote a letter, reminding her of our conversation, and that I've maintained that trail for ten years, and was looking forward to helping her put out the new plastic trail blazes when she gets them printed. Hmm... She has my phone number... Still waiting. May have to give up on the idea of putting out EarthCaches.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

It just seems really odd that everyone in the world can walk up to this marker and read the information, as it is posted to educate the public. The placement of this marker for the public's edification already gives permission for it to be looked at. Why would secondary permission be required for "public domain" ?

You are not asking permission to visit the site. You are asking permission to list the site on a website to get people to come and visit the location. While your location it appears obvious that visitors are welcome and encouraged, there are other less black and white situations. It is easier for a guideline to be applied in all situations than provide a long list of exceptions. That would just be inviting arguments about when and where permission is needed.

 

There is also a liability issue from GSA point of view. See this thread.

 

I've read it several times, but still don't understand the liability issue. Permission won't protect you from a liability case regardless of who gives it. It's like believing a contract protects you. It doesn't and I haven't met a lawyer yet who hasn't laughed when they hear "but I have a contract". (And we have a weekly news show with lawyers answering complaints from people) It's like saying Google earth is responsible for anything happening at any place you visit on the planet because they showed you how to get there. Some things have just gotten way out of hand unfortunately if we need permission to point out sites of interest that we, the public, own.

Edited November 11, 2008 by fox-and-the-hound

[+Harry Dolphin]

Okay. Finally got the opportunity to work on the EarthCaches I want to put out. And, then came the dreaded 'written permission'. Drove another fifteen minutes to the Park Headquarters. "I'd like to speak to someone about putting out a couple of EarthCaches." Turns out that the park superintendent is a geocacher, loves geocaching,and knows about EarthCaches!! Whew! She'll e-mail the permission in a few days. We also chatted about the new trail blazes that she has been working on. She should get to the trail I maintain soon, and we'll go out and put up the new printed blazes together.

All in all, a great day!

That is great to have a geocacher in charge of a park. Great stroke of luck. Good job.

 

Ah. Hmm... Maybe there's a big difference between verbal and written permission? I waited a few weeks, and heard nothing back. So I wrote a letter, reminding her of our conversation, and that I've maintained that trail for ten years, and was looking forward to helping her put out the new plastic trail blazes when she gets them printed. Hmm... She has my phone number... Still waiting. May have to give up on the idea of putting out EarthCaches.

 

Four weeks. No reply. I guess that I am not going to get written permission, even though the park superintendent is a geocacher, and I've spent hundreds of hours over ten years maintaining a trail there. Verbal permission was no problem. Written permission is impossible.

More's the pity. Wawayanda State Park is a spectacular place. Oh, well.

[+Cav Scout]

What ever happened with this EC? Its easy to get permission.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Cav Scout

[+narcissa]

All of my Earthcaches are "roadside" Earthcaches, so I didn't need to get permission from any land owners or land authorities. The educational requirements can be completed without leaving the side of the road.

[+Arby Gee]

All of my Earthcaches are "roadside" Earthcaches, so I didn't need to get permission from any land owners or land authorities. The educational requirements can be completed without leaving the side of the road.

 

I've heard the same from other cachers with roadside Earthcaches. If the cache is on a public road, permission is generally not needed. Of course that is all subject to approval of the reviewers.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I must have missed something, or perhaps the requirements have changed? When I was looking to place an EarthCache, ther requirements were that written permission is required. Whoever owns the land must give you written permission. That is why I did not put out my proposed EarthCache. I received verbal permission, but not written permission. I could not get written permission, therefore I did not meet the requirements of EarthCaching. If you have put out a roadside cache without express written permission of the DOT, or of whomever owns the road, then you have failed the requiements for placing an EarthCache.

[+Just a Trifle]

... or of whomever owns the road ...

 

Surely the public owns the road ... haven't they paid the taxes to build it after all

[+narcissa]

I must have missed something, or perhaps the requirements have changed? When I was looking to place an EarthCache, ther requirements were that written permission is required. Whoever owns the land must give you written permission. That is why I did not put out my proposed EarthCache. I received verbal permission, but not written permission. I could not get written permission, therefore I did not meet the requirements of EarthCaching. If you have put out a roadside cache without express written permission of the DOT, or of whomever owns the road, then you have failed the requiements for placing an EarthCache.

 

Departments or Ministries of Transportation generally do not own roads. They create and administer policies and laws about public roads and the vehicles that are used on them.

 

In Ontario, most roads are publicly owned, and it is perfectly legal to park on the shoulder of the road unless otherwise stated. Roadside Earthcaches are very common, and my Earthcaches - all three of them - were approved without a problem. Perhaps things are different elsewhere - I know that in the U.S., many major roads are privately owned, so it might be a different story depending on where you are.

 

In any case, it's certainly not your place to tell the owner of three active Earthcaches that they've "failed" the requirements - there is, after all, a reviewer who checks these things. If I had "failed" at fulfilling the requirements, none of my Earthcaches would have been published.

 

To get approval, you need to provide the contact information for the person who gave you permission. You only need explicit written permission in jurisdictions that have a policy about geocaching that requires written approval. Even then, you don't need to submit that written permission, you just need to provide a contact who can verify that permission was granted.

[toczygroszek]

One question guys. What is the OFFICIAL reason for getting permission to access to public area? Just making this type of cache harder to publish? It is good reason, but what is official explanation?

[+narcissa]

One question guys. What is the OFFICIAL reason for getting permission to access to public area? Just making this type of cache harder to publish? It is good reason, but what is official explanation?

 

The official reason is, I imagine, that Earthcaching is overseen by bodies other than Groundspeak, and they have more stringent requirements in order to protect their reputations.

[+geodarts]

One question guys. What is the OFFICIAL reason for getting permission to access to public area? Just making this type of cache harder to publish? It is good reason, but what is official explanation?

 

The official reason is, I imagine, that Earthcaching is overseen by bodies other than Groundspeak, and they have more stringent requirements in order to protect their reputations.

 

I am not sure if it is a matter of reputation, rather than matters associated with a public listing and the type of relationship earthcaching has sought with various agencies. Perhaps that is just a matter of semantics.

 

As an example, although National Parks are owned by the public, most do not permit regular traditional caching. Groundspeak will not list regular caches in those areas so the earthcaching permission process is a less stringent alternative. In some areas providing the contact that gave approval is enough, but in other areas (National Parks), I have been asked to provide written confirmation of the approval.

 

As I understand it, permission is required to ensure that the listing does not conflict with rules governing public use and to make sure that the listing does not create problems in sensitive areas. Ideally, the permission process also allows the agency to act as partners with earthcaching, and some have chosen to promote earthcaches to the general public.

 

For me, the permission process has ranged from agencies that have established policies in regard to all forms of caching -- nothing more than a simple email letting me know that any caches were permitted within 250 of a trail -- to those who wanted to ensure that the listing was accurate and contained some common sense information: stay on trails, leave nothing behind, bring water.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Erickson

[+GEO WALKER]

One question guys. What is the OFFICIAL reason for getting permission to access to public area? Just making this type of cache harder to publish? It is good reason, but what is official explanation?

 

The main reason I figure is that "public lands" although public are "managed" by some other entity. The permission ensures that the care and consideration given to the area [plant life wildlife particularlly endanged etc.] is taken into consideration upon approval. I also can see a certain "professionalism" via GSA being applied to this approach. All in all it is a sound environmental approach...

[+ArtieD]

I noticed this topic got bumped, so I figured I'd update on the original question.

 

The spot I was looking at for an Earthcache was not actually on state land...it was just out of property. Go figure...the geological feature that names the state area is not on state area. The landowner who does actually own said property very rudely told me in no uncertain terms that I could not have permission since he was tired of having people trespassing.

 

Sure...don't put up a fence or a more prominent sign to thwart people from continuing down the very well-worn trail to said feature.

 

[+Wenglish]

The rules for permissions must vary from country to country. I am new to geocaching. Any one out there have news on this issue with regard to the UK?

[+geoawareUK]

The rules for permissions must vary from country to country. I am new to geocaching. Any one out there have news on this issue with regard to the UK?

 

Hi Wenglish

 

Within the UK;

 

- If an EarthCache is being placed on a public road, no permission is required (but it will be hard to come up with acceptable logging tasks/questions).

 

- However, if an EarthCache is located on a road in a national, county or local park, then permission is required.

 

- If an EarthCache is "off-road" in any sort of park, forest or private land, permission is required.

 

- Please remember that in the UK there is no such thing as 'Public' or 'crown' Land.

 

When permission is required (which in the UK is pretty much everywhere), a cache submitter must provide the name, position and phone number of the person giving permission as a 'note to reviewer'.

 

Please do not hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions.

 

geoawareUK.

Edited February 26, 2010 by geoawareUK

[+Eclectic Penguin]

As mentioned previously, permission is required, especially for .

 

I was refused permission by the National Trust to place a cache on the Worm's Head, an island just off the Gower Peninsular in South Wales which is tidal - you can only visit it for about 6 hours before being cut off by the tide.

 

The reason being given was that, although the island is open to the public and is a public right of way, numerous people get cut off by the tide each year and the tidal currents become very strong very quickly - people have drowned trying to wade back and the Trust feel that any encouragement to visit the island should be avoided - so there's a blanket ban on all Geocaches of any kind which involve visiting the island.

 

I got round the problem by making the entire area the Geocache due to the interesting erosion that takes place there (GC21N7B). I could easily have placed the cache on the public road nearby, but felt it important to keep the National Trust on board having initially approached them about the Worm's Head - they were more than happy to approve that one and even corrected some errors in my original text!