Stand alone camping events

[+the pooks]

It does seem reasonable. Sadly it doesn't answer the original question about having to organise an extra venue if people don't want to take part in the activity already organised.

 

As I read it, it does answer the question.

 

The answer is if your event cannot allow people to attend for a few seconds to get their smiley, then the event will not be listed - so you need to cater for this in some way. Sadly this goes against the spirit of events in general. I can forsee someone organising an event with lots of activities etc, only to find everyone does a "drive by" attend of it and no-one actually socialises at all !!

 

I wonder what would be said if you put a log book at the camp site reception for an hour, and all that sign it are deemed to have attended the event.

 

This is the kind of stuff that make lawyers get rich. Fortunately in geocaching there is no financial gain, so common sense would dictate. I see three outcomes:

 

1. You host an event. 95% of folks attend as you intended, 5% pop in for a smiley. You enjoy the event.

2. You host an event. 5% attend as intended, 95% pop in for a smiley. You are not impressed and you don't host events again.

3. Similar to 2. A new breed of event develops that appeals to smiley hunters.

 

This is all part of evolution. Things will naturally develop in the direction that the community as a whole would prefer. The important part is that it is not necessary to have a rule on the subject.

Edited October 4, 2008 by the pooks

[Deceangi]

As the Royals have quoted part of the reply received from Groundspeak here is the full text

 

There is no minimum time that one needs to be at an event to log that event. Therefore an event that required an overnight stay to log the event would not be listed on our site. The comment in the guidelines about a camping event is an example of the type of event that might qualify for a longer lead time than then normal 90 days. It is not a permission to create an event the requires staying overnight. The point of geocaching is to have fun not to create additional logging requirements that take the fun out of going to an event.

 

This decision in no way prevents an overnight camping event. All it does is grant an attend to anyone that attends a part of the event. Camping events can be fun. They just can not force someone to attend for a set amount of time in order for that person to log an attend on the event cache.

 

If by chance there was an event like this somewhere it would be considered grandfathered. Going forward I would not expect an event that requires an amount of time to attend to be published

 

There is not and has never been a requirement to organise a separate venue for camping events, except under one circumstance. And that is where the camping element is taking part on a "CLOSED CAMPSITE" ie one where non campers are not allowed on site.

 

And regarding

I wonder what would be said if you put a log book at the camp site reception for an hour, and all that sign it are deemed to have attended the event.

 

How would interacting with a employee of the campsite be the equivalent of attending a Geocaching event. Unless the employee is actually a Geocacher whose attending the event.

[+Mad H@ter]

So can I take it then that the "open to all" element is not actually a requirement for an event to be published?

And that the requirement is, that an attendee can attend at any given moment in time during the event?

[The Royles]

As the Royals have quoted part of the reply received from Groundspeak here is the full text

 

The ROYLES did not quote the full mail as the GS employee is not fond of his emails being published, I know because I asked him. Me quoting part of of an email to me (with you cc'd for your information) does not mean that you need to quote it in full unless you are of the opinion that I was being misleading.

 

And regarding

I wonder what would be said if you put a log book at the camp site reception for an hour, and all that sign it are deemed to have attended the event.

 

How would interacting with a employee of the campsite be the equivalent of attending a Geocaching event. Unless the employee is actually a Geocacher whose attending the event.

 

I would say about the same as a cacher turning up, interacting with another cacher for 30 seconds and then going - both equally silly. But hey if that is how you need it, a cacher could be at reception with log book.

Edited October 4, 2008 by The Royles

[+sTeamTraen]

So can I take it then that the "open to all" element is not actually a requirement for an event to be published?

 

I think we've already been round this particular block. I would suggest that a reasonable interpretation would be "as open to all as a traditional cache at the same physical location would be".

[+Mad H@ter]

So can I take it then that the "open to all" element is not actually a requirement for an event to be published?

 

I think we've already been round this particular block. I would suggest that a reasonable interpretation would be "as open to all as a traditional cache at the same physical location would be".

No, but sorry I must strongly disagree with you there.

I do not believe that an answer, let alone a satisfactory answer has been given to this question within this thread,

And as for your interpretation, a cache in a pub would 1) generally not be aloud due to the commercial aspect, and 2) I have yet to find a cache that would exclude someone on religious/cultural grounds.

[Deceangi]

I have yet to find a cache that would exclude someone on religious/cultural grounds.

 

That's simple to answer, because they do not get published. Reviewers all over the world do see these sort of cache submissions though.

 

And I believe that the Open to All has been shown, by Groundspeak stating that you can not force someone to Camp overnight to log a attended at a Camping Event. Which is what the UK Reviewers have required since your event at the Closed to Visitors Camp Site! IE: Camping Events logable by those not stopping on site!

 

Oh and I posted the full reply from Groundspeak so that everyone had a opportunity to see the whole of Groundspeaks point of view to the question. Not because I felt there was any confusion caused by the limited quote from the reply.

[The Royles]

As there is a need for all to see Groundspeaks full point of view, here are the follow up points I raised along with the answers - questions in blue:

 

The one remaining issue is where the camp site does not allow casual visitors on the site for security reasons. Therefore to attend you would have to register at the camp site (whether you stay or not is up to the individual).

 

If they allow the person to enter for free it is not a problem. Regestration by itself is not an issue. To have to pay to camp to attend when you are not camping is an issue.

 

Is it OK for me to put the contents of this email on the forums, as a lot of people are waiting for this answer ?

 

If you feel you must. I am not fond of my emails being published but I understand the need at times.

 

As an aside, your last sentence would appear to mean that flash mob events will no longer be published as they have very definite time requirements, is this correct ?

 

No, the context is minimum time to attend. If you show up for 30 seconds on a 5 minute event you should be able to log the attend on the event. If the event says you MUST attend the whole 15 minutes than I would not expect that event to be published.

[+mongoose39uk]

Time to put this one on ignore I think. It's going around in circles.

 

Strikes me as yo have an answer such as it is like it or not

[The Royles]

Time to put this one on ignore I think. It's going around in circles.

 

Strikes me as yo have an answer such as it is like it or not

 

Unfortunately very true.

[+keehotee]

There is no minimum time that one needs to be at an event to log that event. Therefore an event that required an overnight stay to log the event would not be listed on our site. The comment in the guidelines about a camping event is an example of the type of event that might qualify for a longer lead time than then normal 90 days. It is not a permission to create an event the requires staying overnight. The point of geocaching is to have fun not to create additional logging requirements that take the fun out of going to an event.

 

This decision in no way prevents an overnight camping event. All it does is grant an attend to anyone that attends a part of the event. Camping events can be fun. They just can not force someone to attend for a set amount of time in order for that person to log an attend on the event cache.

 

It would appear that it's still possible to do this and stay within the confines of this email and the event cache guidelines.

Simply hold your event at a campsite open to all (such as the middle of Dartmoor), and have the time of the event from 3 to 5 in the morning.

Everybody camping gets to log, and anybody arriving at the site to log -regardless of how long they stay - deserves the smiley for getting up at that time in the morning......

Edited October 4, 2008 by keehotee

[+Mad H@ter]

Time to put this one on ignore I think. It's going around in circles.

 

Strikes me as yo have an answer such as it is like it or not

 

Unfortunately very true.

Sadly I have to agree, although it has been an interesting, if a little frustrating a discussion.

 

What I think that this has hi-lighted though is that Groundspeak need to seriously consider the clarity of their guideline/rules, perhaps it is time for the unwritten rule book to be published .

 

Oh, and just to clarify one minor and mostly irrelevant thing. The event that started this all off a few years ago was not one of mine, although I did assist with its organisation.

 

Could the next passing duck please lock this thread as I think it has run its course and seems unlikely to develop further.

[mandarin]

Thread closed, as requested by OP.

 

mandarin