Jump to content

Stand alone camping events

Mad H@ter

By Mad H@ter
in United Kingdom and Ireland

Followers 4

Recommended Posts

Happy Humphrey

+Happy Humphrey

Posted
Posted (edited)

I took it to mean that it's up to the organiser, and in principle the organiser can stipulate that the mountain has to be attempted (or whatever), but (in practice) the "attended" log is unlikely to be denied to anyone who is seen to have turned up for the event, however fleetingly.

 

An important point is that there's no need to go to any trouble to accommodate those that can't or won't comply with the event requirements. So if they manage to meet up with the group as they return to the car park from the top of the mountain: good luck to them and let them log the event if they want to.

 

But there should be no requirement for the organiser to have an assistant stationed there in case this happens, or to have a pub meet arranged for those that can't climb mountains.

Edited by Happy Humphrey
Link to comment
Alan White

Alan White

Posted
Posted

I took it to mean that it's up to the organiser, and in principle the organiser can stipulate that the mountain has to be attempted (or whatever), but (in practice) the "attended" log is unlikely to be denied to anyone who is seen to have turned up for the event, however fleetingly.

Sure, but I understood that the current problem was precisely because an organiser had determined that his event had particular requirements, and a potential attendee took issue with that.

 

Certainly, if I organised an event where the requirement was to climb a mountain I wouldn't allow looging by those who hadn't made a reasonable (defined by me :ph34r: )attempt at it.

Link to comment
Happy Humphrey

+Happy Humphrey

Posted
Posted

Sure, but I understood that the current problem was precisely because an organiser had determined that his event had particular requirements, and a potential attendee took issue with that.

My opinion is that such complainants should be told to go arrange their own event rather than moan about such trivia. I think we moved on to what rules lead to these complaints being upheld and how to get rid of them.

 

It's quite a different situation from where people turn up to an event with "requirements" , and even though they don't take part in the activity they don't get in the way. Allowing the log might seem a little cheeky to those who are really bothered about the event "cache rating", but it doesn't affect anyone else (unlike the pre-event complaint).

Link to comment
Alan White

Alan White

Posted
Posted

That's a rather uncharitable attitude (what I really mean, is what a GOG! :):blink: ). But I suspect you'll never arrange any such event.

You may be right. On the second two points anyway :P, but on the first why so? If I set a 5/5 cache that few people would be able to visit would it be uncharitable to delete logs from those who didn't perform the required tasks that justify the 5/5 rating? And if I didn't, what would be the point of the difficulty of the cache? Might as well create a 1/1 drive-by.

 

An event is no different: if the organiser places a participation requirement on an event then it's entirely reasonable for him to expect that attendees will fulfil that requirement.

 

It seems to me that some people want to get the smiley without doing the work. If the cache/event isn't achievable for you, walk on by: don't complain about it :ph34r:.

 

S'funny, I thought everyone - or at least nearly everyone - was in favour of the "up to the organiser" principle. From this debate, it seems that even those I thought were, aren't :D.

Link to comment
Happy Humphrey

+Happy Humphrey

Posted
Posted (edited)

S'funny, I thought everyone - or at least nearly everyone - was in favour of the "up to the organiser" principle. From this debate, it seems that even those I thought were, aren't :ph34r:.

I agree with your general drift, but I don't see this particular point as being contrary to the "up to the organiser" principle.

 

I'm just saying that although the organiser, strictly speaking, may be justified in deleting such an "attended but didn't take part" log, they most likely wouldn't. Simply because it's an event, is supposed to be fun and lightweight, and it's not a serious competition whatever the number of terrain stars attached.

 

In an ideal world, people could turn up, have a chat and then post a note to say that they enjoyed meeting everyone and sorry for not joining in the activity. But some people really like to log "attended". As long as it cost nothing why not let them.

Edited by Happy Humphrey
Link to comment
scottpa100

+scottpa100

Posted
Posted

With PuP on this one. If the requirements to do an event, like Pup says, a camping event, you need to stay over for the night, then so be it. It's no different to placing a puzzle cache and requesting that with each log a photo has to be uploaded.

 

I hope the review of the rules does not get in the way too much as the feedback I had from the people who attended my event (the 'guided' walk up Snowdon) was very favourable. People who would not normally walk up a mountain, doing so because of the safety of numbers and being there with people who have done it before. And if ultimately, if you've challenged someone a little, expanded their horizons a little and made them feel pleased that they've achieved something that maybe they might not have done under normal circumstances, that has got to be a good thing.

Link to comment
Alan White

Alan White

Posted
Posted

I agree with your general drift,

...

But some people really like to log "attended". As long as it cost nothing why not let them.

I get more and more confused :ph34r:

 

It cannot be right to just let someone log a cache or event just because they happened to be in the vicinity for a small part of the time the cache/event was. Sure, it's up to the owner/organiser*, but what's the point of allowing logs that didn't satisfy the requirement? It demeans it for those who did it "properly".

 

But I suspect we're drifting off-topic, as it's not about the organiser's right to delete logs which don't satisfy the requirement, but rather whether the organiser should be allowed to specify those requirements in the first place. I think s/he should.

 

* More or less, anyway. But remember:

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.
Link to comment
big_bob

big_bob

Posted
Posted

Give me a box to find anyday. With a box you know where you are.

 

I've never been to an event and if there's so much angst about them I don't know that I want to.

What angst? :ph34r:

Questions, questions, questions. Should we do this, mustn't we do that, this should be allowed, this shouldn't be allowed. Rules, rules, rules. I can't be arsed to be honest. I'm just a simple soul and I just want a simple life.

Link to comment
PopUpPirate

+PopUpPirate

Posted
Posted (edited)

Attend over the duration of the event (even if for only five minutes over a weekend), at the co-ords, and say hi to the event setter in person, and you should log an ATTEND note. If there are additional requirements, these should be stated in the cache listing. End of! :blink:

Hmm... I thought we had a consensus but after reading that, unless I misunderstand it, I'm not sure we do. I thought the consensus was that it should be up to the event organiser, just as it is with the cache placer, to determine what conditions need to be met to log a find/attend?

 

If it's a camping event then you need to camp (and this implicitly means camp for the night, at least to me); if it's a climb-a-mountain event then you need to climb the mountain (and not by the cog railway, unless the organiser says that's OK). Merely turning up at the campsite in the morning, or driving into the trailhead car park, doesn't do it.

 

The rest of the post I do agree with, though it seems to contradict the bit I quoted :ph34r:.

 

I meant that primarily it should be up to the Event Setter, most of whom are a friendly bunch who'll normally allow you to post an attendance on an event if you make at least a half decent effort :)

 

I think the bottom line with an event is - from experience :

 

If you enter into the spirit of the event, most setters would allow you to claim an ATTEND.

 

If you turn up on camp and speak to people, the event setter will probably let you log it. If you get 3/4 a way up a hill climb, the event setter will probably let you log it.

 

Please let's not debate the intricacies of every possibility of an event, and whether it would or wouldn't be proper. If you want to, click here, as I feel we may be going OT to discuss "what if" scenarios to the nth degree :P

 

Less is more. Encourage event setting. Keep it fun, keep it interesting, and keep it challenging :D

Edited by PopUpPirate
Link to comment
PopUpPirate

+PopUpPirate

Posted
Posted

Give me a box to find anyday. With a box you know where you are.

 

I've never been to an event and if there's so much angst about them I don't know that I want to.

What angst? :ph34r:

Questions, questions, questions. Should we do this, mustn't we do that, this should be allowed, this shouldn't be allowed. Rules, rules, rules. I can't be arsed to be honest. I'm just a simple soul and I just want a simple life.

 

I'm with you - let's work together to lessen the number of rules :blink:

Link to comment
Happy Humphrey

+Happy Humphrey

Posted
Posted

Questions, questions, questions. Should we do this, mustn't we do that, this should be allowed, this shouldn't be allowed. Rules, rules, rules. I can't be arsed to be honest. I'm just a simple soul and I just want a simple life.

We're actually trying to simplify the event guidelines by trying to do away with unnecessary rules. :)

 

I sympathise with your "simple life" desires, but with great respect: a discussion forum is not the place for if you don't want to get into discussions. :D No, I'm not saying go away, what I'm saying is why not just ignore threads like this?

 

Or if you have an idea of how to make event planning more simple whilst allowing people some creative freedom and yet avoid upsetting others, then why not air your thoughts? :D I still see no angst.

Link to comment
big_bob

big_bob

Posted
Posted

Questions, questions, questions. Should we do this, mustn't we do that, this should be allowed, this shouldn't be allowed. Rules, rules, rules. I can't be arsed to be honest. I'm just a simple soul and I just want a simple life.

We're actually trying to simplify the event guidelines by trying to do away with unnecessary rules. :D

We? Since when have you been setting the rules? I thought that was Groundspeak's job, or at least the local reviewers

I sympathise with your "simple life" desires, but with great respect: a discussion forum is not the place for if you don't want to get into discussions. :D No, I'm not saying go away, what I'm saying is why not just ignore threads like this?

I thought I was discussing things. You want lots of rules, I want it simple. To me an event seems to be an opportunity for people to get together and have fun. You don't need lots of rules and regulations just to meet people. Anyway, why should I ignore this thread just because we seem to disagree? Seems like I'm only welcome if I agree with you.

Or if you have an idea of how to make event planning more simple whilst allowing people some creative freedom and yet avoid upsetting others, then why not air your thoughts?

Yes, post an event and wait for people to turn up. That way you have got all the freedom you want. Nobody need get upset, why should they? It's just a game after all. Why impose all sorts of rules and regulations when we're talking about consenting adults socialising?

:D I still see no angst.

I don't suppose your middle name is Nelson? :)
Link to comment
Mad H@ter

+Mad H@ter

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

For goodness sake, chill out guys, this has been a very good natured and informative discussion for a change, please do not spoil it now.

 

Big Bob, please don't let this thread put you off attending an event as I have yet to see any angst at an event, if there is any angst it is for the organiser. As an organizer of many events I willingly take on any angst as I feel that the results are worth it, but if the angst could be reduced I would be more than happy, that is what this thread is all about. I'm sure that if you have a good read through the thread you will realise that the objective is to try and remove/reduce problems for organisers.

Edited by Mad H@ter
Link to comment
Happy Humphrey

+Happy Humphrey

Posted
Posted

[

I thought I was discussing things. You want lots of rules, I want it simple.

:D

I was arguing for exactly the opposite: fewer rules, more freedom. :) Perhaps that was aimed at some else? :)

 

Yes, post an event and wait for people to turn up. That way you have got all the freedom you want. Nobody need get upset, why should they? It's just a game after all. Why impose all sorts of rules and regulations when we're talking about consenting adults socialising?

No, we were finding that people were posting a straightforward event and getting it refused.

 

I don't suppose your middle name is Nelson? :D

:D

I still see no angst. I guess I don't understand what that means: I'm quite relaxed and enjoy a bit of a civil discussion like this. However, as it appears that prolonging the discussion is upsetting people, I shall gently sidle off now!

Link to comment
stonefielders

+stonefielders

Posted
Posted

The vast majority of caches in this country are not accessible to those who use a wheelchair or have limited mobility - our caches are therefore not open to all. If we are saying that a camping event, or a mountain walk MUST have a pub element to cater for those who cannot otherwise do it, then maybe every cache should have a second log book in the local pub for those who cannot do them. :)

 

We went on Skate and Jane's event in the middle of Dartmoor. Taking two small kids off backpacking to the remostest part of Dartmoor was a real adventure. It would not have been the same experience to meet in a pub.

 

Our community is large enough and diverse enough to have something to suit everyone. leave the event requirements to the organiser, if the event is them something you want to do go. If it isn't - do something else. Or organise an event yourself that does encompase something you want to do.

Link to comment
The_Botherers

+The_Botherers

Posted
Posted

The below are just my personal opinions:

 

1) Surely, anybody setting any kind of event cache would like people to take part in the chosen event.

In simple terms: A camping event will involve camping, a pub event will involve a pub, a mountain climbing event will involve a climbing a mountain etc etc.

 

2) Sometimes, for whatever reason, people are unable to attend certain events ie too unfit to climb a mountain, not wanting to swap a duvet cover for a night under canvas or unwilling to drag the children to some pub.

 

If I would belong to the second category why oh why should I then have the power to tell the event setter of the first category to change his listings to include people who are not willing to take part in his/her chosen event?

 

If I don't wish to camp, why should the setter have to choose an alternative pub meet so I could get a smiley face? If indeed, I hate camping events (or any other events) that much, why would I even WANT to have that smiley face?

 

I am quite sure that, if at all possible, camping event setters will do everything possible to allow for day visitors to take part in the fun around the campfire. However, why should they not be allowed to publish an event if they are not possible to accommodate that for whatever reason (whether personal choice or campsite owners)?

 

I can also understand that cachers who put a lot of effort in organising activity based events might not want somebody gaining a smiley face for arriving at the car park without actually taking part in the activity. I, personally, would feel quite bad to claim a five * event for difficulty and terrain only to pull up at some carpark and say a quick hello.

 

Bottom line, if you want to claim an event cache as outlined by the event setter (very important this bit) then you should do what is asked of you. If you don't wish to do so then have the grace of letting that smiley go without making a fuss.

Link to comment
HazelS

+HazelS

Posted
Posted

The below are just my personal opinions:

 

1) Surely, anybody setting any kind of event cache would like people to take part in the chosen event.

In simple terms: A camping event will involve camping, a pub event will involve a pub, a mountain climbing event will involve a climbing a mountain etc etc.

 

2) Sometimes, for whatever reason, people are unable to attend certain events ie too unfit to climb a mountain, not wanting to swap a duvet cover for a night under canvas or unwilling to drag the children to some pub.

 

If I would belong to the second category why oh why should I then have the power to tell the event setter of the first category to change his listings to include people who are not willing to take part in his/her chosen event?

 

If I don't wish to camp, why should the setter have to choose an alternative pub meet so I could get a smiley face? If indeed, I hate camping events (or any other events) that much, why would I even WANT to have that smiley face?

 

I am quite sure that, if at all possible, camping event setters will do everything possible to allow for day visitors to take part in the fun around the campfire. However, why should they not be allowed to publish an event if they are not possible to accommodate that for whatever reason (whether personal choice or campsite owners)?

 

I can also understand that cachers who put a lot of effort in organising activity based events might not want somebody gaining a smiley face for arriving at the car park without actually taking part in the activity. I, personally, would feel quite bad to claim a five * event for difficulty and terrain only to pull up at some carpark and say a quick hello.

 

Bottom line, if you want to claim an event cache as outlined by the event setter (very important this bit) then you should do what is asked of you. If you don't wish to do so then have the grace of letting that smiley go without making a fuss.

 

As a camping event organiser, I've been watching this thread with interest.

I think the Botherers sum up my own opinions wonderfully.... :D:)

 

If I set an event, yeah - great if you want / are able to come along, but if not, fine, no love lost, no feelings hurt, it just isn't your bag! :D

However, I do try and keep all my camping events open to all to come along and join in.... I don't care if they camp or just turn up, have a quick brew and leave... after all, who is it hurting if they want to claim a smiley for that brew? Not me, that's for sure... I'll have had a fab weekend away, and don't really mind who logs it!!!

 

Each to their own.... I know what I like, and I know that it isn't always to everyone elses taste....we're all different, and the world would be a very dull place if we were all Stepford Wives!

:):D

Link to comment
The Cache Hoppers

+The Cache Hoppers

Posted
Posted
We went on Skate and Jane's event in the middle of Dartmoor. Taking two small kids off backpacking to the remostest part of Dartmoor was a real adventure. It would not have been the same experience to meet in a pub.

 

I am seriously impressed!! As an experienced camping cache event setter, and having taken part in camping events with anything from two to five children, I didn't attempt that one although I know it was a very enjoyable event. Hope to see you at some camping bashes next year. :)

Link to comment
The Cache Hoppers

+The Cache Hoppers

Posted
Posted

Bottom line, if you want to claim an event cache as outlined by the event setter (very important this bit) then you should do what is asked of you. If you don't wish to do so then have the grace of letting that smiley go without making a fuss.

Hey up Botherers! It was fab seeing you this weekend and bumping into you on the caching trail! PuP and I both said that's it's been wonderful getting to know you and see how you have thrown yourself into the camping scene - not an easy task when you have young kiddies in tow, as we know; good on ya! :):D:D

Link to comment
Team Sieni

+Team Sieni

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've been following this with vague interest. We don't do events, or camping ("tenting" as the other half of Team Sieni dismissively calls it) so I don't really have an opinion. However, it's got me thinking ...

 

People are drawing comparisons between events and regular caches. How far can you take this? Can you have a micro event? (in a lift or a cupboard or a phone box?) A mystery event? (in a maze?) A multi-event (a pub crawl?) A reverse event (where you have to wander around and log the fact if you happen to meet some cachers) A virtual event ( errr.... where you don't actually have to really meet ... I'll have to think about that. Maybe you all log on to the forums/chat). An event that requires special equipment (under water, or in a posh place with a strict dress code).

 

Anyway - I think stand alone camping events are daft. Surely events are about standing together, not alone. And from what I've seen of tents it must be hard to stand at all in them.

 

I liked the sound of the event in the middle of Dartmoor. If we had a) known about it and b] been in the area we would probably have dropped by.

 

OK. that's my wittering done. As you were.

Edited by Team Sieni
Link to comment
The Royles

The Royles

Posted
Posted

(snip)

 

Anyway - I think stand alone camping events are daft. Surely events are about standing together, not alone. And from what I've seen of tents it must be hard to stand at all in them.

(snip)

 

OK. that's my wittering done. As you were.

 

Not sure if this was all tongue in cheek, but at a camping event there is so much more time and oppertunity to socialise with the other cachers. In the evenings all the cachers tend to congregate for anything from 3 to 8 hours, I think this qualifies as "standing together". Campers (or indeed tenters :) ) tend not to spend their time in their tents.

Link to comment
purple_pineapple

+purple_pineapple

Posted
Posted

(snip)

 

Anyway - I think stand alone camping events are daft. Surely events are about standing together, not alone. And from what I've seen of tents it must be hard to stand at all in them.

(snip)

 

OK. that's my wittering done. As you were.

 

Not sure if this was all tongue in cheek, but at a camping event there is so much more time and oppertunity to socialise with the other cachers. In the evenings all the cachers tend to congregate for anything from 3 to 8 hours, I think this qualifies as "standing together". Campers (or indeed tenters :) ) tend not to spend their time in their tents.

 

i suspect it was tongue in cheek! However, I love the idea of micro events!

Link to comment
PopUpPirate

+PopUpPirate

Posted
Posted

(snip)

 

Anyway - I think stand alone camping events are daft. Surely events are about standing together, not alone. And from what I've seen of tents it must be hard to stand at all in them.

(snip)

 

OK. that's my wittering done. As you were.

 

Not sure if this was all tongue in cheek, but at a camping event there is so much more time and oppertunity to socialise with the other cachers. In the evenings all the cachers tend to congregate for anything from 3 to 8 hours, I think this qualifies as "standing together". Campers (or indeed tenters :laughing: ) tend not to spend their time in their tents.

 

i suspect it was tongue in cheek! However, I love the idea of micro events!

 

I tried to publish "The UK's First Micro Event" in early June, where the listing stated that I didn't want people to attend it. :laughing: However, the funny side wasn't seen, and I was told in no uncertain terms, no! C'est la vie! :D

Link to comment
TMM-Sarah

+TMM-Sarah

Posted
Posted

And from what I've seen of tents it must be hard to stand at all in them.

 

 

Not seen my mansion then! :laughing:

 

You can not only stand in the main part you can even stand in ALL three of the bedrooms.

.

...and even though there is no kitchen sink I do have a kitchen unit :laughing:

 

...anyway I can understand both points of view but I do think it an extra stress to have to hold additional "events" to class as being open for all.

 

I'll enjoy sitting on the fence in this debate.

 

Sarah

Link to comment
mongoose39uk

+mongoose39uk

Posted
Posted
How far can you take this? Can you have a micro event? (in a lift or a cupboard or a phone box?) A mystery event? (in a maze?)
As others have said, Cache'n'Flash events could be regarded as micros, and this event from 2004 needed 9 physical caches to be found inorder to get the time and date for it. If I can find a decent maze (with no entrance fee!) though... :P:D

 

A maze thats free to get in................

 

Get it submitted then Paul Ghost of the White Lady

Link to comment
SlytherinAlex

SlytherinAlex

Posted
Posted

What makes a pub event "open to all" :P ?

Well it really doesn't. I remember the event for our 1000th find had to be moved right at the time as I hadn't checked that the pub allowed kids in. I "assumed" that as they served meals that kids would be allowed. It turned out that I was wrong.

 

Fifty odd cachers and kids moved to the pub down the round and spent what seemed to be a large amount of money on food and drinks and a good time was had by all. Their loss.

Link to comment
PopUpPirate

+PopUpPirate

Posted
Posted

Tempting! Is there a pub near by? ;)

 

Of course there is a pub, though as the venue is open to all there would be no need for one.

And this gives me the ideal oportunity to bring this nicely back OT :)

 

What makes a pub event "open to all" :) ?

 

Careful now!!! :D Of course they are open to all!

Link to comment
The Royles

The Royles

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have had a reply from Groundspeak on this issue. The main point of the email is:

 

There is no minimum time that one needs to be at an event to log that event. Therefore an event that required an overnight stay to log the event would not be listed on our site.

 

So there we have it, we have gone from commercial issues, to open to all issues, and now time issues.

 

Methinks some reviewer somewhere doesnt like camping :rolleyes::santa::santa:

 

edit to add more smilies

Edited by The Royles
Link to comment
Mad H@ter

+Mad H@ter

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I have had a reply from Groundspeak on this issue. The main point of the email is:

 

There is no minimum time that one needs to be at an event to log that event. Therefore an event that required an overnight stay to log the event would not be listed on our site.

 

So there we have it, we have gone from commercial issues, to open to all issues, and now time issues.

 

Methinks some reviewer somewhere doesnt like camping :santa::santa::santa:

 

edit to add more smilies

Now I'm more confused than ever :rolleyes: , not that that takes much :santa: .

 

So does that mean no more flash mob events as generally you are expected to be there for 15 minutes :santa: , or an event that requires you to climb a hill as that to will take time.

 

So where in the guidelines is this "rule!" written?

Oh sorry, stupid me, it must be in that big book of unwritten rules :santa: .

 

I give in, think I'll go get a beer.

Link to comment
sTeamTraen

+sTeamTraen

Posted
Posted (edited)
So does that mean no more flash mob events as generally you are expected to be there for 15 minutes :)

 

I take it to mean that if you listed an event like this:

The event starts at 2pm and ends at 2:15pm. We will take a rollcall of all those present at 2pm and again at 2:15pm. Only those people who are present at both rollcalls may log the event. (Oh, and the entry turnstile will be locked at 2pm so that if you leave, you can't get back in; we really need 15.00 minutes of your attention.)
then it wouldn't be published. That seems reasonable to me. Edited by sTeamTraen
Link to comment
Pengy&Tigger

+Pengy&Tigger

Posted
Posted

I take it to mean that if you listed an event like this:

The event starts at 2pm and ends at 2:15pm. We will take a rollcall of all those present at 2pm and again at 2:15pm. Only those people who are present at both rollcalls may log the event. (Oh, and the entry turnstile will be locked at 2pm so that if you leave, you can't get back in; we really need 15.00 minutes of your attention.)
then it wouldn't be published. That seems reasonable to me.

 

It does seem reasonable. Sadly it doesn't answer the original question about having to organise an extra venue if people don't want to take part in the activity already organised.

Link to comment
The Royles

The Royles

Posted
Posted

It does seem reasonable. Sadly it doesn't answer the original question about having to organise an extra venue if people don't want to take part in the activity already organised.

 

As I read it, it does answer the question.

 

The answer is if your event cannot allow people to attend for a few seconds to get their smiley, then the event will not be listed - so you need to cater for this in some way. Sadly this goes against the spirit of events in general. I can forsee someone organising an event with lots of activities etc, only to find everyone does a "drive by" attend of it and no-one actually socialises at all !!

 

I wonder what would be said if you put a log book at the camp site reception for an hour, and all that sign it are deemed to have attended the event.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Followers 4
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...