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SoCalGeocoins


The Klever Boys

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Please keep all personal matters out of this thread, and keep to the topic of the coins ordered, and how and when these orders will be fulfilled. This is not the place to hash out personal differences and disagreements. If you are missing an order, please feel free to post. Further personal arguments will not be tolerated.

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OK I'll be the bad guy and call it how I see it.

 

I'm not defending the guy either but the phrase 'pot meet kettle' come to mind here. We don't normally buy coins from anyone not listed in the forums as reliable but our experience this year has taught us to me more careful in the future. If the mints are the issue I'd like to see the list of the mystical mints that are bad for doing business with. If it's bad coin dealers I'd like to see a list of bad coin dealers. Enough of this "we got our money for the codes it's on the buyer" beware mantra.

 

Nothing sours people to a hobby worse than bad business dealings, keep it clean and everyone informed.

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OK I'll be the bad guy and call it how I see it.

 

I'm not defending the guy either but the phrase 'pot meet kettle' come to mind here. We don't normally buy coins from anyone not listed in the forums as reliable but our experience this year has taught us to me more careful in the future. If the mints are the issue I'd like to see the list of the mystical mints that are bad for doing business with. If it's bad coin dealers I'd like to see a list of bad coin dealers. Enough of this "we got our money for the codes it's on the buyer" beware mantra.

 

Nothing sours people to a hobby worse than bad business dealings, keep it clean and everyone informed.

Nothing like going back to the dry well again and again for no other reason than trying to fill that empty bucket. How about trying to stay on topic. The topic in case you can't see it is, a VENDOR taking money for over a year for coins, and still selling others and having not delivered the coins.

 

If you still have issues with a group project that was delayed by the mint for a couple weeks longer than was expected while they were busy doing the Olympic's pins, in which case you got 100% of your coins, feel free to take that up on those boards, or even start a new on topic thread. If you are just trying to stir the pot because you have nothing better to do, then I can't help you there.

 

You won't see a list here on bad buyers as GC wants to stay as far out of this side of the buisnes so they won't have to assume any liability. The only recourse the community has is do to what I and others have been doing for years, and that is give honest feedback through the forums. There are mint delays, and group projects will always take longer since they are basically the same as getting 50 some single editions done versus one edition. The problem comes when people are selling more coins to pay for the edition they already sold and spent the money on. This is the second "vendor" in less than 3 months to have done this on a large scale and the people are taking the hit. If GC won't protect us with an authorized reputable vendor list, then we need to continue calling it out honestly here.

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How about trying to stay on topic.

 

Asking for a list of bad mints and sellers is actually quite on topic and has been asked for by a great number of people on these forums numerous times. It's not an unreasonable request. In fact, it could be considered good business practice considering the codes are bought from Groundspeak.

 

If you still have issues with a group project that was delayed by the mint for a couple weeks longer than was expected while they were busy doing the Olympic's pins, in which case you got 100% of your coins, feel free to take that up on those boards, or even start a new on topic thread. If you are just trying to stir the pot because you have nothing better to do, then I can't help you there.

 

A 'couple weeks'? You're kidding right? If you only knew how much of a hairs breath some were ready to turn someone into PayPal you wouldn't be puffing your chest up right now. BTW how's that auction coming along? Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

You won't see a list here on bad buyers as GC wants to stay as far out of this side of the buisnes so they won't have to assume any liability.

 

Translation "We got our money you figure out how to get yours when it hits the fan." A list doesn't place them in any liability whatsoever. It gives the community at large an idea whom to avoid doing business with and helps those that are new to this hobby from getting hosed. It places them on higher ground and in a better light and doesn't make folks that do get hosed feel like they've been taken by more than a questionable coin dealer or mint manufacturer.

 

The only recourse the community has is do to what I and others have been doing for years, and that is give honest feedback through the forums.

 

Something some folks, seem to take issue with even in their 'own forums.' Why force someone new to have to dig through years of forum topics on a message board to find the answers they seek? That seems a bit counter productive if you ask me. It seems lately there have been quite a few instances of people getting ripped off. I guess those poor suckers should have dug through what, 8 years of topics, to make sure? You should be a comedian. There is no reason to keep things quiet only for more unsuspecting people to get ripped off. BTW How's that auction coming along? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Bottom line, and our advice to folks is keep your emails, pm's, receipts, and all correspondence. And put them out here. If TPTB won't do it I don't see why a topic couldn't be made similar to the other mile long topics here titled "Buyer Beware: Coin Dealers" and folks only add the name of the company, mint, person, and coin they've been burned by in dealings. It might not be pinned but at the rate people get burned around here it would at least float on the first page for the majority of the time.

Edited by Sileny Jizda
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How would you propose to create this list?

 

Add people/companies to list (qualify)?

 

Remove people/companies from list (de-qualify, if that is such a word)?

 

The list on the pinned thread is very long and I would guess there are only 5-10 at most that produce geocoins today. Even less that produce coins for others and not just themselves.

 

If you are asking Groundspeak to maintain the list then you are asking them to assume (or aleast there is an assumed) liability since there would be some qualifications.

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I think the question is defining the term "burned". There is one specific vendor that I had problems with, we both expressed our opinions and I swore I would never purchase geocoins from that vendor again. However, once the fire died down and I came back to reality I realized that this person was actually a very good vendor. If I had expressed my comments at the time they would not have been helpful to any new buyer.

 

I think the main problem in this case is that the money from pre-sales was used to purchase more coins and the money was used for personal expenses. This has happened on at least two other occasions with two other sellers. Both were over their head in the sale of geocoins and cachers paid a price.

 

I do think Groundspeak has the responsibility to stop selling codes if they realize that people are being hurt financially from sellers. In this case it appears they shut off selling codes to this seller.

 

I see at least three if not four sellers right now that I question whether they will be able to meet their client's needs because they are not vendors with the money to keep popping out new coins. I think people see selling coins as a way to make a quick buck and we will see more of these problems down the road. The only question is how to prevent someone from being taken advantage of and I think unless the person has a long track record no one should do a pre-sale of a coin. A pre-sale means the person doesn't have the money to place the order and therefore people need to be cautious of whether the order will be filled or whether the money was pocketed for emergency expenses.

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I think the main problem in this case is that the money from pre-sales was used to purchase more coins and the money was used for personal expenses. This has happened on at least two other occasions with two other sellers. Both were over their head in the sale of geocoins and cachers paid a price.

 

I do think Groundspeak has the responsibility to stop selling codes if they realize that people are being hurt financially from sellers. In this case it appears they shut off selling codes to this seller.

 

 

It's a shame we use the term TPTB as it implies a lot of authority. Groundspeak cannot be held responsible for what vendours do with the tracking numbers after they are sold any more than paint manufacturers are responsible for graffiti. GS can, however, establish guidelines on how they are used on their servers or even how they are resold using their servers.

 

Nor should they be the coin police and keep tabs on who is honest and who isn't. Certainly de-listing a company that has generated complaints is a step in the right direction as is enforcing their guidelines. But posting information about the good and the bad is the responsibility of the forum users or should be. Not getting coins months after pre-sales were paid is something that ought to be posted right away to start the conversation with others who may be in the same predicament.

 

It's unfortunate that Matt and Nan appear to have chosen to dip into their customer pre-sale deposits to pay for medical/personal expenses thus leaving their business practises open to scrutiny and their honesty and integrity questioned. But it's really more of a shame it has taken so long for this conversation to take place, whether is was initiated by SoCalGeocoins as required by good sense or by customers who felt they got burned.

 

Edit to add: I hope this isn't considered OT.

Edited by Droo
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Please feel free to correct me if I am missing something here, but if this is what it appears to be, then I am truly amazed.

 

I was looking through some old links I had today and clearing them out, when I came across SoCalGeocoins site. Now knowing there are coins on back order for up to 14 months and many many people coming here with issues in this thread, I couldn't help but stare wide eyed at what looks to be yet another presale of coins on their site. please tell me I am wrong here.

 

SoCalGeocoins

 

While I can't think of a person who frequents the forums pausing for one second over the add to cart button, and if they actually do hit the button then theres not much they are going to learn from anyone here. They might as well chalk it up as a donation at this point. Sadly there are people who don't frequent the forums who have no clue about the history of this company and will spend their money there.

 

My question is this. How in the world does a company that owes the amount of coins like this one does, have the ability to take pre-orders for more coins?

 

SoCal: You say you are sorry and have had issues and such. Don't you think you should clear your backlogs of coins BEFORE taking other people's money?

 

Is this a situation where they are selling a coin to pay for the ones owed and will figure out how to pay for this preorder later?

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Speaking purely for myself...

 

I can easily understand how sudden medical bills can screw things up to the point of near-hopelessness: been there, done that.

 

I pulled a muscle in my leg while caching, and after a couple of weeks off, I was back out there, pain and all. This isn't just a sometime-thing; it's an obsession, and I'm surprised at how many people in here seem to have forgotten that, at least when applied to others.

 

I'm getting tired of some people continually rehashing old personal scores. Eartha has already (twice!) asked people to knock it off, so KNOCK IT OFF!!!! FSM added his request, so it's time to get off the high horse and let it go.

 

There is, in fact, no excuse for silence. Socalgeocoins waited far too long to let people know what was going on. As much of a hassle as it would have been, they had an obligation to e-mailing each person, individually and directly, who had given them money. Having their GC account frozen made it harder, but not impossible. Let this be a lesson to *all* of us.

 

The main issue appears to be that GC will not issue more codes for coins currently minted and waiting. I've no idea what would be required to clear this up, but it might be time to ask for some help from a parent, sibling, someone, to get things cleared out. I wish you nothing but the best of luck.

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This has nothing to do with personal issues. It has nothing to do with re-hashing personal scores.

 

What this has to do with is the business in this forum.

 

This is a company. This company sold coins that, at this point in time, they have no way to deliver. This company is still listing this product for sale and they have long over due outstanding orders.

 

A couple of posts up someone complained because they didn't know who was a good seller and who isn't. Unfortunately, the people who will call out the bad sellers are usually thought of as the "bad guys". It seems that there are those who want everybody to be "nice". Well, nice for me ends when I see people continually taken advantage of by the same company over and over again.

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The big issue is not GC not issuing more codes. It is they owe a ton of coins and are once again selling coins via a pre order system. This is what got them in trouble in the first place. If you are way behind, you don't start taking on more work. Finish what you already started. So what happens when they take this money to finish the old work, then delay these coins for months on end? Can't you see the road we are going down here?

 

People really need to stop pretending this is something personal. This is nothing more than the forums allowing the discussion of a company. I don't care how large or small they are, who is behind it, or what they sell. I have never seen one person stand up for Garmin or Magellan and claim it was personal. Why is that such a big defense for shoddy customer service, borderline fraudulant sales, and in general shady buisness tactics here in the Geocoin world? I have spoken with SoCal for a total of 30 seconds out of my life. Hardly enough time to get to any kind of personal level. My opinions, whether you agree with them or not, are not based on personal feelings at all. Clearly the facts speak for themselves here, or everyone seems to have the same personal feelings.

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I couldn't help but stare wide eyed at what looks to be yet another presale of coins on their site. please tell me I am wrong here.

 

I couldn't find a new coin on their page, which coin are you refering to?

 

I think that is one of the points that he is trying to make--there are no new coins but all the Crystal Dragon coins are listed as being PreSale on the link given above...

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This does seem bad, I cannot believe a pre-sale is allowed when they have yet to make good on other pre-sales.

 

Didn't I read there's a "preferred" company list somewhere in here?? Maybe it's time to add a "beware of company" list as well? As has been stated though, many don't read the forums and will merely be taken anyway.

 

I sure hope this isn't what it seems to be....

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Yes, TPTB this can be a reflection on you.

 

Please don't think that we don't take notice.

But also remember, that Groundspeak is not responsible for transactions with an outside company. Everyone enters into these transactions at their own risk, which is why PayPal and credit card companies offer some form of help when things like this happen.

 

One thing that GS can do is refuse to aprove more artwork for rogue vendors, and refuse to sell them more codes.

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This is what I got after trying to contact these vendors:

 

From: SoCalGeocoins@aol.com

Subject: Re: [COINS] Fairyhoney contacting you from CoinTracking.com

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:15:04 EDT

To:

 

 

This is in response to all who are concerned about getting their coins that were presale orders. We have been experiencing some financial difficulties the past few months due to health issues. All coins that were paid for will be shipped out by the end of the year. We are sorry for the incovenience it has caused everyone. We have not skipped town or left geocaching. Our SoCalgeocoins account has been temporarily disabled from responding to forum threads so we havent been in the forum.

 

Coins that we have in stock have been shipped out and we still have the orders for the Crystal Dragon, ScurvyDog Personal, Mercury and Spiral Dragon coins.

 

Groundspeak has halted the sale of codes to us until we catch up on our payment. We are working hard to resolve this issue and again we are sorry for the long delay. We are going through are records for all coins that were presold, if you would like to confirm your order please send your list to our email address.

 

Again, we are sorry for the delay and inconvenience and will have those coins you paid for out to you by the end of the year if not sooner.

 

Please contact us at our email address for any questions. socalgeocoins@aol.com

 

SoCalGeocoins.

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