Mints

[+Wandering Vikings]

We have minted a number of coins, working directly with a production company in China. The last several orders have had substantial delays, quality issues and we've even had them randomly substitute the finishes we ordered with different metals without advising us.

There are a couple places, on here and other forums, that list minting resources, but these all seem to be coin retailers or other companies that want us to use them as the 'middle-man' to get our coin minted.

 

My question is this- is anyone currently minting coins happy with the service they get from their mint and willing to share the name of that mint?

 

We really don't need a middle-man, we develop and refine our own artwork, and are comfortable with the production and import processes. But we are very unhappy with the service we are getting from the mint we have been using and would like to get some feedback on other companies.

Any help would be appreciated.

Sofi

[+Wandering Vikings]

Thank you to those that have PM'd asking about our current company.

 

We are currently using Jian Pins and would like to find another mint.

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

This is an interesting question. To me it is sort of like asking a rancher how many head of cows he owns or someone how much money they have in the bank. . . . .

[+prntr1]

This is an interesting question. To me it is sort of like asking a rancher how many head of cows he owns or someone how much money they have in the bank. . . . .

 

So, how much money do you have in the bank

 

I have $3.92 today

[+MustangJoni]

This is an interesting question. To me it is sort of like asking a rancher how many head of cows he owns or someone how much money they have in the bank. . . . .

 

So, how much money do you have in the bank

 

I have $3.92 today

 

You got me beat by $1.82!

[+Wandering Vikings]

This is an interesting question. To me it is sort of like asking a rancher how many head of cows he owns or someone how much money they have in the bank. . . . .

 

I apologise if it comes across that way.

 

I'm really am not sure why people are sensitive about giving referrals to companies they work with. I recogize that this is a sensitive subject, I'm just not sure why! I do not produce anyone elses coin designs, only my own. I have never worked with a 'middle-man' company for production of my coins. Sharing resources will not lose anyone business, it will increase the overall quality of the coins available and reward those companies that consistantly provide good service and quality.

 

As a community we regularly discuss and comment on retailers that do or do not provide good service, I've seen discussions on the people that provide artwork, discussions on shipping times from companies and the quality of their coins. I am really just trying to start a discussion on the same thing, just one more step up the 'food chain'!

 

Again, sorry I'm stepping on toes- that is not my intention! Just looking for honest feedback on the quality of service of the companies being utilized by the community.

[+Koolbrez]

This is an interesting question. To me it is sort of like asking a rancher how many head of cows he owns or someone how much money they have in the bank. . . . .

 

I do not believe the thread was asking dealers to give up sources. Just other people dealing with companies directly. I believe if someone was capable and comfortable dealing with a company directly then that's great. The coin dealers had to start somewhere, right.?

[+prntr1]

This is an interesting question. To me it is sort of like asking a rancher how many head of cows he owns or someone how much money they have in the bank. . . . .

 

So, how much money do you have in the bank

 

I have $3.92 today

 

You got me beat by $1.82!

 

I am so, so very sorry

 

ps, you going to gcf?

[+Renegade Knight]

This is an interesting question. To me it is sort of like asking a rancher how many head of cows he owns or someone how much money they have in the bank. . . . .

 

I'm thinking it's closer to asking the Rancher where he likes to buy his cows.

 

Companies that interface with the mints, and assist with your coin that's the service they offer. The interface and assistance. Not the mint.

 

Back to the rancher. If I want to raise my own cows I could probably buy a few from the rancher to boot.

[+Renegade Knight]

On Topic.

The Alaska Mint seemed to have done a good job for the AK cachers. When I talked to them they were upfront. They (as most American mints it seems) have limitations on the kind of work they can do. Way back I spoke with a larger American mint. They liked coin runs of thousands upon thousands.

 

Most folks (the interface types) warned me against the Korean mints. They intoned that Korean ethics on how they view the coins they are making for you were a 'tad' more looose than Chinese ethics.

[+fairyhoney]

Well, the kind of mint that I like is the ones that come out the round silver YORK Mints can YUM! or even those great tasting "Dutch" round, pastel mints. (double yummers!)

[+ComputerCacheBug]

I work for a print and promotions company. I can tell you that even if a coin reseller gave up who their mint was its not going to be a big issue. First off the mint will not give the same discount to an individual as they would to a company that comes to them daily with work. So I hardly see where this is even closely related to asking how much money someone has in the bank.

[+The_Geomonkeys]

The following is a personal opinion based on some first hand experience. When searching for a mint that I could work with to make my own coins I found information hard to find other than the "middle-vendors" listed here. When I was at GeoWoodstock last year I met quite a few coin vendors. One in particular had made some coins that I liked quite a bit and struck up a conversation with them about the process, how they got started in minting coins etc. They were happy to answer my questions. However, when I asked which mint they used I got a nasty look and stone silence. They told me if I wanted to mint a coin that I could pay them to do it, shoved some brochures in my face, and made it clear I was no longer welcome at their booth. I had already purchased quite a bit of their coins while I was there and given that reaction I would have forgone the purchase if this conversation had happened before I turned over my money.

 

The mints that these "middle-vendors" use are held like a secret because this is how people make their money. When I was attempting to find out the mint location for an upcoming trip to China (thought it would be fun to get photos etc) I was contacted via PM from a cacher who had worked directly with Jian Pins (one of the larger mints in china) and they provided me with contact information and tips for working with them directly. In a course of conversation it became clear why this is such a closely held secret. They had minted a 1.5" coin, 2D, enamel filled, (no tracking), and in a small run for a total cost of less than $5.00 per coin. In fact the shipping cost of the coins was more then the cost to have the minted. They submitted very course artwork and the mint revised it for them and was willing to make additional changes until the customer was happy. I've seen the results and they are beautiful.

 

Now if you add in the cost of custom icon, engraving, and tracking numbers you would still be able to mint a coin at a reasonable cost where a markup to $10.00 or more per coin turns quite a profit. To be clear the larger companies that work as "middle-vendors" do provide a service and as such have every right to make a profit from the designs they work with. I hold no ill will to anyone who is trying to put food on the family or start a business that produces art commodities for this community. And yes, some coins will be more expensive to produce due to a variety of reasons so not everyone is making tons of money by doing this. Due to the slim margins many would choose not to share who they mint with because it keeps competition down and prices up. Basic economics. After all if everyone who wanted to mint a coin decided to work directly with the mint and offer their support services to others the market would flatten out and many of the current vendors may not find enough profit to continue doing custom coins.

 

Ultimately it is up to the vendor if they wish to release information about who they use to produce products for the end customer, as it is their business. However, I would prefer to see the information more available as it will hopefully encourage others who may not be able to afford to pay for the additional services of the vendors to have a personal coin done at a more affordable price.

[+LadeBear68]

Excellent post Geomonkeys. Glad to see a valid answer to the question.

[+PengoFamily]

I know of another mint. I do not know how reliable they are as I have never gone directly to the mint myself. It is Bonjet.

 

Good luck!

[danoshimano]

Try buying your next television set directly from the factory. You can't, and for a good reason. (And the vast majority of retailers can't even buy it direct from the factory.)

 

A quality mint would be wise to NOT deal with individuals, unless, of course, they put a much larger profit margin on the sale then if they were dealing with the so-called "middlemen" who place many orders on a continuous basis. It's not that hard to understand why.

[+AtwellFamily]

I know of another mint. I do not know how reliable they are as I have never gone directly to the mint myself. It is Bonjet.

 

Good luck!

Part of the same company they use. Another selling arm but the same mint.

[avroair]

I'm really am not sure why people are sensitive about giving referrals to companies they work with. I recogize that this is a sensitive subject, I'm just not sure why!

 

I am curious why working with which mints is sensitive, everyone had to find out from somewhere. I think it's only a matter of time before the mints start advertising services directly into the forums.

[+maldar]

This is an interesting topic, as I was thinking to start a list of mints not to use as my first one seems to be one that is not up to the ethics I demand. I'm sure that I'm the first for which they produced a geocoin. Next time I'm going to make sure that the mint has produced geocoinS in the past. I had quotes from some, but I went with the cheapest quote to my dismay.

 

Here is the info on the mint I used and I suggest anyone that is interested avoid:

 

WENZHOU ZhongAo badge factory

 

aka: King of Badge

 

Pingyang, Wenzhou, Zhejiang, China

 

I only used them the one time, but all I have gotten from them are excuses they blame on their machine saying that the colors are not always the same. I can handle a color being one shade off, but to have a gold glitter and then a bright yellow with NO GLITTER is extreme as you can tell in the pictures in my coin's thread.

 

All I ask is that any vendor that has had a bad experience with a mint and plans to never use them again due to that fact, please list them here. I see it as a favor to the geocoin community as a whole. You don't have to list what mint or mints you are using or have been happy with in the past. Just help others avoid the bad ones.

 

maldar

[+maldar]

*STUPID DOUBLE POST*

 

maldar

Edited September 26, 2008 by maldar

[+Wandering Vikings]

 

All I ask is that any vendor that has had a bad experience with a mint and plans to never use them again due to that fact, please list them here. I see it as a favor to the geocoin community as a whole.

 

The company that we are having issues with is Jian Pins. Out of 75 coins of one particular plating 65 of them were completely unsellable. When we got the replacement coins in, 10 of those are poor quality and will have to be redone again. Our biggest issue with them at this point is the lack of communication- we have to email them pretty much daily to get updates on our coins in production.

The company that owns Jian Pins is an umbrella company that owns several other mints as well, but from most comments I've gotten the other 'arms' of the company don't seem to have near the issues that we are having.

Good luck!

[+nielsenc]

When you go through a middleman, you are allowing the middleman to take the risk if there is a problem. What you have done is cut the middleman out and now asking for help on these forums on how to run your business.

 

Most businesses will have more than one place to source products which can give the best solution for their customers.

[Hogwild Stuff]

Several people who have posted in this thread have suggested that providing this information should be no big deal. It is a big deal! As a coin vendor I spend considerable time and resources in many different areas, one of which is developing relationships with factories that make coins. By spending time and resources in this area is allows me to to several things:

 

1. Get better prices which gives me more profit and allows me to charge a lower price to my coin making customers.

 

2. To have options when a given factory can not meet my needs for a given coin. This would include time to produce a coin, special finishes and other special options.

 

3. Creating a good working relationships.

 

So no, I am not to willing to share / give away something I have invested in for free. This has real value. If you want to figure this out, go do what I and Oak Coins, and Coins & Pins, and Geocoin Store and others have done. Spend the effort to figure it out yourself. I am glad to have you compete with me, but don't then come and ask me to help you compete more effectively against me. Now if you want to pay me for my knowledge . . . .

 

My thoughts

[+Wandering Vikings]

Hogwild Stuff, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate insight into *why* it is considered a sensitive subject and not just being told it is.

 

I have spent a considerable amount of time researching, emailing and questioning mints, but for the most part they all say the same things and show fairly similar samples. The intent was to get willing recommendations from those who are happy with the service they receive, much like I do when researching *any* business that provides me a service.

 

If you are not wanting to share a recommendation that is of course totally fine. But the fact that many people have shared means that not everyone feels the same way, and we have that right to think differently.

 

There have been a small number who have been offended that I dare ask- to those people I apologize that my intent was misinterpreted. Thankfully a large number of people have PM'd with their good and bad mint experiences and have been extremely helpful in narrowing down my choice. None of the companies mentioned to me were companies that I had not heard of, and only one was a company that I had not already corresponded with (due to poor recommendations previously).

 

As to the post who mentioned that I have "cut the middleman out and now asking for help on these forums on how to run my business"... Really? In rereading all of the posts I am not seeing anywhere that I asked for any kind of input into the running of my business. I have over 15 years of retail upper management experience and have never before been accused (in a public forum no less!) of incompetence because I asked for recommendations of a positive business experience!

 

As Hogwild mentioned in his thoughtful response (thank you!) there are a number of things that he has done to make his business successful. He has put time and effort into cultivating relationships with the mint and in my opinion, that is the real value. Not the name of the mint itself but the time and energy to create a relationship with that mint!

 

To each their own, nothing said on these forums will change the firmly help opinions of those who have differing viewpoints. Thank you to everyone who helped out, I appreciate your comments immensely and also thank you for those who took the time to explain *why* you feel differently your explanations are much more productive than blind assaults.

[+Sileny Jizda]

I don't see any issue at all as to why the names of mints cannot be divulged. Any individual that would want to make a business of coin making with a mint would still need to go through the necessary steps to become on a good relationship and dealings with a mint to make the same deals. The only real potential issue I see is the new competition aspect of the situation and folks not wanting to give information based on that reason alone. Otherwise, saying they do business with a particular mint because they like their work I don't see why there would be an issue.

[+fairyhoney]

Stay away from Altoids - They ARE curiously Strong ( don't drink something cold afterwards, it will Get your neck )

[+maldar]

The company that we are having issues with is Jian Pins. Out of 75 coins of one particular plating 65 of them were completely unsellable. When we got the replacement coins in, 10 of those are poor quality and will have to be redone again. Our biggest issue with them at this point is the lack of communication- we have to email them pretty much daily to get updates on our coins in production.

The company that owns Jian Pins is an umbrella company that owns several other mints as well, but from most comments I've gotten the other 'arms' of the company don't seem to have near the issues that we are having.

Good luck!

 

I want to thank you for this information. They sent me an email today advertising their pins and other items. The name seems familar and I came searching for this thread. Now I'll avoid them when I get my coin/pin combo made.

 

Thanks again,

 

maldar

[Tooeygeotrashed]

The company that we are having issues with is Jian Pins. Out of 75 coins of one particular plating 65 of them were completely unsellable. When we got the replacement coins in, 10 of those are poor quality and will have to be redone again. Our biggest issue with them at this point is the lack of communication- we have to email them pretty much daily to get updates on our coins in production.

The company that owns Jian Pins is an umbrella company that owns several other mints as well, but from most comments I've gotten the other 'arms' of the company don't seem to have near the issues that we are having.

Good luck!

 

I want to thank you for this information. They sent me an email today advertising their pins and other items. The name seems familar and I came searching for this thread. Now I'll avoid them when I get my coin/pin combo made.

 

Thanks again,

 

maldar

 

I'm sorry that Sofi and Holmbiorn have had such a negative experience with this company, but from my own experience I have received excellent customer service from them. They also produce, as far as I am aware, pathtags - numbering over 9000 satisfied customers. Occasionally we can all suffer a bad experience, but it has to be viewed in the light of the overall picture. One tail does not a donkey make !

[+TropicalParadise]

Several people who have posted in this thread have suggested that providing this information should be no big deal. It is a big deal! As a coin vendor I spend considerable time and resources in many different areas, one of which is developing relationships with factories that make coins.

 

Now, I'll admit that I'm not a person with a raccoon-mentality, I'm just getting into this whole collecting thing. But if you have such a great relationship with your factories, why not tell the factories, 'Hey, I'm really pleased with you and would recommend you to many other people.... if there's something in it for me'. Plenty of companies offer a referral program. Some might not offer it outwardly, but if you said that you could get them more business, they might give you even BETTER rates/reward/remuneration.

 

Why not ask, and if they say yes, contact both parties by email or something?

[+AtwellFamily]

Several people who have posted in this thread have suggested that providing this information should be no big deal. It is a big deal! As a coin vendor I spend considerable time and resources in many different areas, one of which is developing relationships with factories that make coins.

 

Now, I'll admit that I'm not a person with a raccoon-mentality, I'm just getting into this whole collecting thing. But if you have such a great relationship with your factories, why not tell the factories, 'Hey, I'm really pleased with you and would recommend you to many other people.... if there's something in it for me'. Plenty of companies offer a referral program. Some might not offer it outwardly, but if you said that you could get them more business, they might give you even BETTER rates/reward/remuneration.

 

Why not ask, and if they say yes, contact both parties by email or something?

Adding another customer for the mint that might do a few coins in a year adds no value to the mint. They would most likely get the business by that same person going to one of the existing companies producing geocoins.

 

I shared the mint informaiton with someone else I met outside the geocoin world because that would add value and new business to the mint, they might normally not get.

[Tooeygeotrashed]

Try buying your next television set directly from the factory. You can't, and for a good reason. (And the vast majority of retailers can't even buy it direct from the factory.)

 

A quality mint would be wise to NOT deal with individuals, unless, of course, they put a much larger profit margin on the sale then if they were dealing with the so-called "middlemen" who place many orders on a continuous basis. It's not that hard to understand why.

 

Not a fair analogy IMO. Say I designed a new vacuum cleaner, I'm hardly going to present my design to Hoover with a view that they produce it, market it and conduct all the sales and take all the profits, and for my design they might give me a few free models - no I would be seeking a manufacturing company that will make it for me at a reasonable cost, I can then decide how many and when and choose my own market and set my own price if I choose to sell it direct to the public.

 

I believe the mint that I use is a quality mint and have produced thousands upon thousands of quality products, it is of little concern to them how many products I buy, a customer is a customer. Yes - by buying quantity there may be more room to negotiate a more favourable price, a few cents on a small run of coins and maybe a few cents more on a bigger run, we are not talking macro economics here, at the end of the day the price varies by a few cents per coin, and in my experience vendors prices do not differ greatly. The difference I see is in the actual cost to the vendor compared to the prices they charge to their customers. I'm not against any company making a profit, if they don't they will not be in business for long. But there is an elitist attitude amongst some coin vendors, they want everyone to use them to make their coins and resent anyone who takes the initiative to go it alone.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Tooey

[+TropicalParadise]

Adding another customer for the mint that might do a few coins in a year adds no value to the mint.

 

Telling the other customer about the mint, who might do a few coins in a year, detracts no value from your coins?

[Tooeygeotrashed]

I'm really am not sure why people are sensitive about giving referrals to companies they work with. I recogize that this is a sensitive subject, I'm just not sure why!

 

I am curious why working with which mints is sensitive, everyone had to find out from somewhere. I think it's only a matter of time before the mints start advertising services directly into the forums.

 

Not a very realistic proposition given the strict access (or non access) to the internet in China, at the moment it isn't possible for anyone to post to forums outside of China.

[Tooeygeotrashed]

 

There have been a small number who have been offended that I dare ask......

 

As to the post who mentioned that I have "cut the middleman out and now asking for help on these forums on how to run my business"... Really? In rereading all of the posts I am not seeing anywhere that I asked for any kind of input into the running of my business. I have over 15 years of retail upper management experience and have never before been accused (in a public forum no less!) of incompetence because I asked for recommendations of a positive business experience!

 

 

Vendors are defensive, they resent newcomers who might produce something their customers would prefer over anything they currently have on offer.

 

To even suggest that you came in here looking for a solution to your business problems is typical of the arrogance of the 'big players'.

[+Wandering Vikings]

We would like to thank everyone who has given us feedback on this subject.

 

We have gotten several referals to various mints from our fellow cachers, some of them we are currently working with on one or two projects. As for Jian pins.... We have come to realize that it was NOT so much the mint as it was our personal rep, that was the problem. we have changed reps with them and are once again recieving outstanding service.

 

As for those few who have been offended by us asking this question... I apologize, it was never our intent to offend anyone. But it is our humble opinion, that the geocoin business is more about the design of the coin being made and offered, Not about who or what company or mint made it. Our coins would still be the competition that they are , regardless of what mint they were made at or what middleman we went through. Personally as a coin collector, I welcome all the competition that is out there, and would welcome more!

 

Thank you

Edited October 10, 2008 by Sofi and Holmbiorn

[+AtwellFamily]

Adding another customer for the mint that might do a few coins in a year adds no value to the mint.

 

Telling the other customer about the mint, who might do a few coins in a year, detracts no value from your coins?

That is not what I said or what you quoted. If the person was going to mint a coin and didn't have the contact info, they would need to use an existing company. So it would detract from my business or someone elses.

[+ECplus3]

Are there any North American mints that can compete with the offshore mints for larger production runs?

 

I have a friend who became keenly interested in my geocoins because he wants to launch a fundraising project aimed at businesses. He now is figuring on creating a series of 20 coins, with a run of 5000 of each coin. He's not against sending his business overseas, but if a mint in Canada or the US would be interested in producing 100,000 coins for a competitive price, he'd certainly give them preference.

 

I'm also quite interested in this project too, because he wants me to do the artwork

[+Wandering Vikings]

Adding another customer for the mint that might do a few coins in a year adds no value to the mint.

 

Telling the other customer about the mint, who might do a few coins in a year, detracts no value from your coins?

 

This is looking like we are talking about two very distinct, seperate issues here- individuals who do coins and companies who do coins.

 

IMHO- If you are an individual who is doing a coin or two a year, it is in your best interest to go through a company that makes coins. They can jump through the hoops for you, they have an established relationship with a mint and it is much more likely that your coin will be produced sooner, since the mint has a vested interest in keeping the company happy.

Its a fact of life that production companies are financially motivated.

The mint may take your business, but they are not going to give a single coin the pricing discount or priority that they will a an established company that they do regular business with. Economics- pure and simple.

 

Our stand, and the purpose of the original post, was a company asking referals from other companies on their satisfaction with the mint they currently use. As a company we do not go through a middle-man, so we are not taking any business from a company that produces coins for others. We certainly are not trying to eliminate those companies or harm their business in any way. They provided a valuable service to individuals who want a coin or two produced.

 

The way we look at it is like this-

If I own a grocery store I am not going to buy my candy bars from 7/11 and then try to sell them. I will go to a supplier.

If I am a consumer who wants a dozen candy bars for a party I will not go to the factory and try to order 12 candies, I will purchase them from a store.

As a grocery store owner, if I am at a store owners convention, I may ask around to see if other stores are happy with their candy suppliers and if they are ask who they work with. I am not advocating all consumers trying to buy their candy from the factory- I am asking a like-minded group of peers for their opinion on the suppliers they work with.

[+TropicalParadise]

That is not what I said or what you quoted. If the person was going to mint a coin and didn't have the contact info, they would need to use an existing company. So it would detract from my business or someone elses.

 

Ohhh okay, so you ARE one of the middle men. I don't know who you are, so I didn't know this. I was assuming you were a fellow person producing a few coins a year. I can see why you wouldn't tell someone which mints you use if you're the middle man. You'd be out of business very quickly. But if one was another fellow coin maker, I don't see how it's a loss to that person.

[Tooeygeotrashed]

snip

IMHO- If you are an individual who is doing a coin or two a year, it is in your best interest to go through a company that makes coins.

They can jump through the hoops for you, they have an established relationship with a mint and it is much more likely that your coin will be produced sooner, since the mint has a vested interest in keeping the company happy.

Its a fact of life that production companies are financially motivated.

The mint may take your business, but they are not going to give a single coin the pricing discount or priority that they will a an established company that they do regular business with. Economics- pure and simple.

snip

 

I disagree, yes there are advantages to working with a vendor, but your comments on pricing and delivery do not hold water, as an individual the mint will work with me on a one to one basis, if I go through a vendor then the vendor is handling multiple orders, I doubt they could deliver my coin any quicker or any cheaper as you will see from the quote below.

 

1. Stamped bronze soft enamel without epoxy coin

2. Imitation hard enamel coin

 

Plating: nickel

without sandbalsting

Size: 1.5" (38mm diagonal)

Thickness: 3.0mm

Color: front: 4C, Back: 4C (common color)

Mold: both sides 2D (common edge)

Quantity: 250pcs

One spot of laser engraving with black color filled on single side

Separate PVC baged

 

Unit price(ex-work HK):

USD1.4/pcs for Stamped bronze soft enamel without epoxy coin

USD1.61/pcs for Stamped imitation hard enamel coin

Mould charge: USD80

 

Delivery date: 2 Days for artwork approval

7 Days for sample preparing

16 Days for mass production

 

Delivery charge by Ex-work HK: (from HK to UK): USD126.33

Payment term: 100% prepaid by T/T before delivery.

[Tooeygeotrashed]

Not one comment from anyone

[Tooeygeotrashed]

I forgot to mention - remints - they work out even cheaper as there are no mould charges (die charges).

Of course if you wanted to go trackable on 250 coins you would need to add $525 for tracking numbers and icon, or go for the generic pc icon and save $150. But if you want it to be 'commercial' seems most folk are still stuck in the trackable with icon rut.