Bookmark List Usability

[+fizzymagic]

Management of bookmark lists is difficult and there are some pretty big usability issues with them. I think we discussed these about a year and a half ago, but since nothing has changed perhaps it's time to do so again.

 

To be specific:

• Bookmarks show 20 to a page, arranged alphabetically by cache name. You can change the number of bookmarks shown, but performing any operation on any bookmark resets the number displayed to 20, so you have to start all over again.
  
• There is no way to transfer bookmarks from one list to another.
  
• There is no indication of which bookmarked caches you have found.
  
• There is no way to go directly from a bookmark listed on a cache page to the corresponding bookmark definition; if the cache name happens to start with a letter close to the end of the alphabet, getting to the bookmark can take many steps.
  

For example, I have a bookmark list of puzzle caches that I have solved but have not yet found. Very useful for a pocket query. Unfortunately, every time I find a cache on the list I have to go through a very tedious process to locate the cache and delete the bookmark. If I have to delete several bookmarks at once, it is even worse. Here's how it goes:

 

I open the bookmark list and change the number of caches displayed to the maximum. I find all the ones that need to be deleted on the first page (from a list I have to put into an editor, since there is no way to see which caches on the list I have found as there is in a normal PQ listing), then I delete them as a group. The list is then re-displayed showing 20 caches per page. I change it back to the maximum. Now I have to check to be sure that no caches that were previously on the second page have moved to the first because of the deletions. Then I move to the second page, and repeat the process. I've found that if I delete the caches in reverse alphabetical order, I don't have to do as much checking, but then I have to manually remember where I was.

 

A lot of this pain could be alleviated if the entire bookmark list could be shown on one page; it would also be great to be able to go directly to a bookmark (not just the list) from the bookmarked cache page.

 

Anybody else frustrated by this?

[+MuddyPawPrints]

Oh yes! Most definitely. All of your points are sticking issues with me. Let's hope the powers to be listen......

[+Happy Humphrey]

Anybody else frustrated by this?

Yep.

[+hukilaulau]

Anybody else frustrated by this?

Yep.

me too... all my PQ's including "caches along a route" are from bookmark lists, so I run into this annoying problem all the time.

Edited September 4, 2008 by hukilaulau

[+the hermit crabs]

Anybody else frustrated by this?

Very much so.

 

Even if the whole bookmark list function is going to be completely revamped for GC 2.0, it would be so simple to make one quick intermediate change to minimize so many of the problems: change the max number of displayed entries per page from 50 to 500, and make 500 the default instead of 20.

Edited September 4, 2008 by the hermit crabs

[+The Leprechauns]

All of the observations are valid, although the first two bother me personally more than the last two.

 

To this list I would add that there is no function to search for bookmark lists by keyword. When caching in an unfamiliar area, I would love to be able to search for bookmark lists with the keywords "favorite" and the name of the city or state I'm visiting. That would be an easy way to find the best caches in that area instead of wading through all the noise in the hope of stumbling across a "favorite caches" bookmark list by accident. Others would enjoy looking for bookmark lists with keywords like "challenges," "offroad," "hydrocache" or "kid friendly."

 

Even better, let every premium member have a bookmark list called "favorites" with specially defined powers, like the ignore list has. Imagine running a pocket query for a cache dense area that could return only those caches which appear on someone's "favorites" list.

[+Isonzo Karst]

A lot of this pain could be alleviated if the entire bookmark list could be shown on one page

 

Yes! brilliant.

 

I'll also add to the bugz issues that once you've worked with a bookmarked list for a bit, very often it will not show any page but the first page of 20 caches, regardless of how you have it set, or what it indicates at the top.

I'll tell you that it's 50 caches on page 3, but it's actually showing the first 20 from page one.

 

I was working with a list yesterday, and repeatedly had to close it out completely, and then reopen to get it to load 50 caches and then from there look at the second page. Each manipulation of that page meant closing out the bookmarked list, reopening, asking for 50, then looking at page 2.

 

 

PQable Favorites list - yes yes yes. This deserves (AGAIN) its own thread.

 

For me, this is the single most critical new feature for the website. Either 1) a Favorites list that's got PQ attributes or 2) ratings of some flavor.

[OpinioNate]

All great suggestions guys. I'll jot them down and see what can come of it.

[+supertbone]

Management of bookmark lists is difficult and there are some pretty big usability issues with them. I think we discussed these about a year and a half ago, but since nothing has changed perhaps it's time to do so again.

 

To be specific:

• Bookmarks show 20 to a page, arranged alphabetically by cache name. You can change the number of bookmarks shown, but performing any operation on any bookmark resets the number displayed to 20, so you have to start all over again.
  
• There is no way to transfer bookmarks from one list to another.
  
• There is no indication of which bookmarked caches you have found.
  
• There is no way to go directly from a bookmark listed on a cache page to the corresponding bookmark definition; if the cache name happens to start with a letter close to the end of the alphabet, getting to the bookmark can take many steps.
  

For example, I have a bookmark list of puzzle caches that I have solved but have not yet found. Very useful for a pocket query. Unfortunately, every time I find a cache on the list I have to go through a very tedious process to locate the cache and delete the bookmark. If I have to delete several bookmarks at once, it is even worse. Here's how it goes:

 

I open the bookmark list and change the number of caches displayed to the maximum. I find all the ones that need to be deleted on the first page (from a list I have to put into an editor, since there is no way to see which caches on the list I have found as there is in a normal PQ listing), then I delete them as a group. The list is then re-displayed showing 20 caches per page. I change it back to the maximum. Now I have to check to be sure that no caches that were previously on the second page have moved to the first because of the deletions. Then I move to the second page, and repeat the process. I've found that if I delete the caches in reverse alphabetical order, I don't have to do as much checking, but then I have to manually remember where I was.

 

A lot of this pain could be alleviated if the entire bookmark list could be shown on one page; it would also be great to be able to go directly to a bookmark (not just the list) from the bookmarked cache page.

 

Anybody else frustrated by this?

 

I miss the feature where we could view, add and remove bookmarks on the previous version of google maps. Any word when that functionality would be returned?

Edited September 4, 2008 by supertbone

[+Corey]

All great suggestions guys. I'll jot them down and see what can come of it.

Thanks Nate!

[+trainlove]

Why not have an option to show ALL in the bookmark list like I asked a few months ago.

And if that's imlemented or not, then at least let the user selection stick and not return to a useless default.

[+Labrador Wild Man]

Management of bookmark lists is difficult and there are some pretty big usability issues with them. I think we discussed these about a year and a half ago, but since nothing has changed perhaps it's time to do so again.

 

To be specific:

• Bookmarks show 20 to a page, arranged alphabetically by cache name. You can change the number of bookmarks shown, but performing any operation on any bookmark resets the number displayed to 20, so you have to start all over again.
  
• There is no way to transfer bookmarks from one list to another.
  
• There is no indication of which bookmarked caches you have found.
  
• There is no way to go directly from a bookmark listed on a cache page to the corresponding bookmark definition; if the cache name happens to start with a letter close to the end of the alphabet, getting to the bookmark can take many steps.
  

For example, I have a bookmark list of puzzle caches that I have solved but have not yet found. Very useful for a pocket query. Unfortunately, every time I find a cache on the list I have to go through a very tedious process to locate the cache and delete the bookmark. If I have to delete several bookmarks at once, it is even worse. Here's how it goes:

 

I open the bookmark list and change the number of caches displayed to the maximum. I find all the ones that need to be deleted on the first page (from a list I have to put into an editor, since there is no way to see which caches on the list I have found as there is in a normal PQ listing), then I delete them as a group. The list is then re-displayed showing 20 caches per page. I change it back to the maximum. Now I have to check to be sure that no caches that were previously on the second page have moved to the first because of the deletions. Then I move to the second page, and repeat the process. I've found that if I delete the caches in reverse alphabetical order, I don't have to do as much checking, but then I have to manually remember where I was.

 

A lot of this pain could be alleviated if the entire bookmark list could be shown on one page; it would also be great to be able to go directly to a bookmark (not just the list) from the bookmarked cache page.

 

Anybody else frustrated by this?

 

I miss the feature where we could view, add and remove bookmarks on the previous version of google maps. Any word when that functionality would be returned?

I just like to say that i to miss this funticon on Geocach-google maps it was great then if i missed a bookmark in the area i could add it Now i do not now if the cache is on the bookmark or not it just give a option to add it and most of the time it is all ready on my list.

 

this funtion has been off now for at least a year would be great help if we can get it back

 

well that my two pennies worth

 

Labrador wild man

[+wandering4cache]

My frustration with bookmarks is the reason that I no longer maintain or update a bookmark that I have. I would like to, but its annoying.

 

I've found other ways to handle lists, but unfortunately, you can't share them that way.

 

Please fix bookmarks.

[+LadeBear68]

I didn't want to start a new topic but rather seek advice from those familiar with bookmarks. How do I delete a bookmark list? I have deleted all the caches in the bookmark list but it won't let me delete the category.

[+Stripes]

I am new and I agree that these changes would be greatly appreciated, along with being able to delete the bookmark category.

[+Corey]

I didn't want to start a new topic but rather seek advice from those familiar with bookmarks. How do I delete a bookmark list? I have deleted all the caches in the bookmark list but it won't let me delete the category.

Once you've deleted all the bookmarks, go to the bookmarks page and click the edit button for the bookmark list. Then click the "Archive Listing" button.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

All great suggestions guys. I'll jot them down and see what can come of it.

 

Cool. I've got a couple of other issues regarding bookmark lists here too if you get a chance.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Corp Of Discovery

[+cajunabear]

To this list I would add that there is no function to search for bookmark lists by keyword. When caching in an unfamiliar area, I would love to be able to search for bookmark lists with the keywords "favorite" and the name of the city or state I'm visiting.

 

Yes, yes, yes this would make the list accessable and I think it would be a savings in many ways, such as not having duplicates of the similar list from different users, time in making a bookmark list, etc.

Edited September 18, 2008 by cajunabear

[+yorelken]

I like the bookmark lists but I agree that the above suggestions are good.

[+paleolith]

Yep, totally agree, especially about a sticky change to the numbe displayed, copy/move from one list to another, and fixing that old old bug which makes it stick to the first page. (BTW, I can usually unstick it by going to one of the caches in the list and clicking back to the list. That's a PITA but perhaps a clue to the bug.)

 

User options for display, such as for lengths of lists, have been standard on the web for what, ten years now? Automatically saving a dynamic change is not much harder but might have unexpected effects. Someone who doesn't understand it might change it to 500 and not know how to change it back and be sitting there waiting for the browser to format that list of 500 caches. OK, so this is a bit far-fetched, but automatic adjustment can have unexpected effects. I think I'd take the conservative approach of a user option that has to be explicitly set.

 

Serving up a list of 500 links just isn't much load on a server compared with sending a single image, so it's not likely a server load issue. Retrieving those 500 links from the database takes a bit longer, but most likely the entire bookmark list is retrieved when the first page is requested anyway.

 

Check out the mail manipulation on FastMail's web mail for a good example of manipulating lists. I think the critical parts even work without JS. this UI could be readily adapted to manipulating bookmark lists.

 

Edward

Edited September 19, 2008 by paleolith

[AVGeoCrew]

I'm not too familar with bookmarks, so if I am overlooking something please correct me, but it would e nice to be able to view your bookmark list on google map. Just so I have an idea of which one to start at and where the others are in relation to each other.

 

Sometimes a list will get really long and I'd like to be able to have a visual so I can scale a certain distance off of it and get an idea of a radius of cached i'd like to find in a day, its difficult to do something like that in distance and directional text format, if that makes any sense. lol

[+the hermit crabs]

I'm not too familar with bookmarks, so if I am overlooking something please correct me, but it would e nice to be able to view your bookmark list on google map. Just so I have an idea of which one to start at and where the others are in relation to each other.

You can do this by creating a pocket query of the bookmark list, and then doing the map-preview of the query to see them all.

[+Nikon-ing]

After starting another thread on this subject and being kindly directed to this one, I need to add to my name to the frustrated. It's good to know I'm not the only one pulling my hair out over my favorite feature, the bookmark list.

 

I don't use PQs much, but I LIVE by my bookmarks and they are so inconsistent and unreliable.

[+hzoi]

Ditto for the points raised above. Especially with the bookmark bug with the 1st 20 repeatedly loading no matter what you click. Typically I can make this go away by clicking on one of the bookmarked caches, then clicking on my bookmark link on that page...but I shouldn't have to, right?

 

Also: I don't use my ignore list, as it doesn't work like I thought it did (keeping the cache from showing up at all). In fact, I'm really not sure what the ignore list actually does. I do know that once reated it seems impossible to delete/archive. Add to the above either the ability to get rid of the ignore list or having it not count against the 20 allotted (or giving us some more bookmark lists!).

[+WitzAbout]

• There is no way to go directly from a bookmark listed on a cache page to the corresponding bookmark definition; if the cache name happens to start with a letter close to the end of the alphabet, getting to the bookmark can take many steps.
  

Anybody else frustrated by this?

 

Yes, I have been frustrated by these things a number of times.

 

I have found one way of going to my own bookmark entry for a specific cache:

Click to bookmark the cache (again)

Make sure to have the same bookmark list the cache is in already selected in the drop down.

Submit to add the cache to the bookmark list.

It will then come back and say the cache is already bookmarked - but will then give you a link at the bottom in red:

Click the Edit this Bookmark link

 

A bit of a kludge, but it can be the fastest way to get to the correct bookmark entry. I wish there was a link to edit the bookmark directly from the cache page. Hopefully some day!

[+Lakebum]

Another bookmark feature that would be useful to me is if you could watchlist a bookmark.

 

I have several bookmarks of other cachers I like to watch, but I never know when they make a change.

[+FunLovingGeocacher]

I would like to be able to do a keyword search to find shared public bookmarks.

 

Eg find all shared bookmarks that contain the keyword 'London'

[+tozainamboku]

If bookmark lists can be made more usable they could be use to solve the problems of people who want to find night caches or any other "special" cache type. Instead of creating a new icon/cache type for every type of cache that someone thinks is special or adding new attributes to the broken attibute system, people could create bookmark lists for any attribute or characteristic they find important. Whether public or shared, these bookmark list could be made searchable.

 

Allow for searching on the bookmark list name and description along with the coordinates of any cache in the bookmark list (or alternatively by the centroid of the caches on the list). This will allow users to find lists that have caches in their area that fit the description.

 

Allow for group management of bookmark lists, like group management of Waymarking categories. Anyone could nominate a cache for a bookmark list. The group managers would then accept or deny the cache on the list. If someone finds a cache on a list that should be their they could also contact the managers and ask the cache be removed.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I wonder if there's been some work done? I just today have been reworking some lists. I can't get to the second page at all, ever. If I ask to see 50 at once, it reloads with NO bookmarks showing, and I have to go back to all bookmarked lists, view the list I was working with. At 20 per page, and no opportunity at all to see any more of the list than that. Oddly, I'm hoping this means they've fiddled with the coding, and are working on it? Hopeful :-0?

[+hukilaulau]

I wonder if there's been some work done? I just today have been reworking some lists. I can't get to the second page at all, ever. If I ask to see 50 at once, it reloads with NO bookmarks showing, and I have to go back to all bookmarked lists, view the list I was working with. At 20 per page, and no opportunity at all to see any more of the list than that. Oddly, I'm hoping this means they've fiddled with the coding, and are working on it? Hopeful :-0?

I tried it just now with the same old results. Opened a list with 140 bookmarks, changed to 50 viewed, opened one of them, went back and tried to move to the next page... nope, stuck on the first 50, no matter what page it SAYS I'm on. No work being done as far as I can see.

[+Rev Mike]

Even better, let every premium member have a bookmark list called "favorites" with specially defined powers, like the ignore list has. Imagine running a pocket query for a cache dense area that could return only those caches which appear on someone's "favorites" list.

 

That would be perhaps the most useful thing I could imagine.

 

- Rev Mike

[CoyoteRed]

A bit of a kludge, but it can be the fastest way to get to the correct bookmark entry. I wish there was a link to edit the bookmark directly from the cache page. Hopefully some day!

It shouldn't be too hard for them to put a couple of buttons right on your bookmark list on the cache page that says "Edit" and "Delete." Same with the written log result page. Yep, would be sweet to write your log, submit, and then have options right from there to edit or delete that bookmark.

[CoyoteRed]

Even better, let every premium member have a bookmark list called "favorites" with specially defined powers, like the ignore list has. Imagine running a pocket query for a cache dense area that could return only those caches which appear on someone's "favorites" list.

That would be perhaps the most useful thing I could imagine.

Except for maybe return the numbers of favorites and the number of logs written. That way we know just how much of a favorite it really is.

 

Otherwise, you'd just have friends listing other friends' caches simply to get them on the list. Then the feature would be pretty much useless.

 

The cat's meow would be returning caches as a percentage of favorite and logs written. Then the number of caches returned would be sorted by percentage instead of distance. You request the favorites of an area and instead of the number being cutoff by distance because it maxes out the 500 cache returned, it would be cutoff by percentage. It would only return the highest percentage of favorites. While still "game-able" it's less susceptible.

 

I think a better way to handle favorites is be able to pick and choose whose favorites lists get included. You can kinda-sorta do this now, but considering the difficulty in managing the bookmarks you don't get a more complete picture and you have to burn a PQ for each person's list you use.

 

Also, there are other metrics that would be just as useful in determining which caches to download. If you're looking for caches that are convenient to hunt then a "days per find" would be useful. An out-of-the-way 1/1 would not be useful to someone who is looking for a convenient cache to seek. Conversely, a 5/5 with a lower number of days per finds might be more popular or just easier. (Don't get me started on removing the special equipment tag on 5/5's). Higher log word counts are useful. Etc.

 

Combine all of that with the ability to add and subtract from a bookmark in bulk then you'd really have something going. For instance, a PQ that produces only your recent finds being subtracted from a particular bookmark would answer the OP's request for the tasks he is doing.