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My Garmin 60Csx Is Getting Old....


TexasGringo
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My Garmin 60Csx is getting old. It has found me caches and has been through some Bush-Whacking Hell.

 

I'm looking for a replacement after the first of the year and with all the problems of the newer garmins, I just might change to a Delorme PN-40. It ain't out yet, but there have been some good writeups on it and it sounds much better and faster than the PN-20.

 

I only use the GPS for geocaching and occasional street locating.

 

A few more months to go...and we shall see.

 

(If you are looking for a question...there are none...just a thought)

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***Sounds as if you've got some money burning a hole in your pocket and you want a new toy.***

 

I do want a new toy.

 

On my 60Csx, the face is cracked.

The paint on the buttons is worn off.

Sometimes you push those buttons and nothing happens.

The memory chip under the batteries is loose and that aluminum thing is broken (i put glue on the chip to hold it in).

 

But otherwise it works.

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I only use the GPS for geocaching and occasional street locating.

 

Despite what you may feel you've read here. A Colorado or Oregon is MUCH better than a 60csx for those uses and I suspect better than the PN-40 will be.

I know it will shock everyone out there that I disagree with Red90 on this issue, but I do. We have owned four Colorado’s (all have been returned) and currently use a 60csx and Oregon daily (we just passed 365 days for our current geocaching streak). The 60csx is rock solid and you can't compare the Colorado to it at all. While I enjoy the Oregon's touch screen, paperless and pda-less caching it is difficult to navigate (but tolerable) and entering waypoints is cumbersome at best. I would say that Red90 might want to read the stats on the PN-40 before you bury it prior to its release. Can you say tri-axial compass? You know more about the PN-40 now, prior to release, than we know to date about the Colorado or Oregon.

Edited by Celtic Cacher
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***Sounds as if you've got some money burning a hole in your pocket and you want a new toy.***

 

I do want a new toy.

 

On my 60Csx, the face is cracked.

The paint on the buttons is worn off.

Sometimes you push those buttons and nothing happens.

The memory chip under the batteries is loose and that aluminum thing is broken (i put glue on the chip to hold it in).

 

But otherwise it works.

 

I just bought a new 60 csx to replace my aging eTrex Legend (original black and white, low/no sensitivity model) and it is just great! I think there is still a lot of life left in that model line. And just think, I bet you could just buy a new 60 csx for a LOT less than you bought your first one...and certainly a lot cheaper than a Colorado or Oregon :laughing:

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I know it will shock everyone out there that I disagree with Red90 on this issue, but I do. We have owned four Colorado’s (all have been returned) and currently use a 60csx and Oregon daily (we just passed 365 days for our current geocaching streak). The 60csx is rock solid and you can't compare the Colorado to it at all. While I enjoy the Oregon's touch screen, paperless and pda-less caching it is difficult to navigate (but tolerable) and entering waypoints is cumbersome at best. I would say that Red90 might want to read the stats on the PN-40 before you bury it prior to its release. Can you say tri-axial compass? You know more about the PN-40 now, prior to release, than we know to date about the Colorado or Oregon.

 

I've extensively used a 60csx. I extensively cached with my Colorado with people that have a 60csx. I have zero problems with the Colorado and it locates the caches just as quickly and accurately as a 60csx, in all conditions.

 

Yes I know the specs and from what I have seen so far, the Colorado/Oregon will be better for caching use. IMO, a compass has no use geocaching with modern, high sensitivity receivers.

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On my 60Csx, the face is cracked.

The paint on the buttons is worn off.

Sometimes you push those buttons and nothing happens.

The memory chip under the batteries is loose and that aluminum thing is broken (i put glue on the chip to hold it in).

 

But otherwise it works.

 

You could just call garmin and pay to get it fixed for much less money, just make sure if you have city navigator maps that you get a new unlock from them.

I know the paint on the buttons can wear off, but if you use bug spray with deet that actually causes this problem. I had that same issue with my Magellan meridian, all the buttons markings wore off and even the rubber on the case was discolored. I stopped using bug spray when I bought my 60cx and haven't had an issue in two years.

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The real uniqueness of the PN-40 is its access to good quality maps, and most interesting, good aerial photography and nautical charts. Unlimited downloads for $30/yr and a high speed processor to deal with the data-intensive bitmap images are a great combination.

 

Although 60csx is a proven reliable unit, it doesn't offer the improved mapping and aerial photography options the the PN40 offers.

 

It will be interesting to see how the basic GPS abilities of the PN40 compare to the 60csx, but we already know there is no comparison on maps and images.

 

djmoll

 

My Garmin 60Csx is getting old. It has found me caches and has been through some Bush-Whacking Hell.

 

I'm looking for a replacement after the first of the year and with all the problems of the newer garmins, I just might change to a Delorme PN-40. It ain't out yet, but there have been some good writeups on it and it sounds much better and faster than the PN-20.

 

I only use the GPS for geocaching and occasional street locating.

 

A few more months to go...and we shall see.

 

(If you are looking for a question...there are none...just a thought)

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I would have to agree with Red 90. I sold my 60CSx when I got my Colorado and have never regretted it! My wife still uses her 60CS, and I can come up with caches as accurately as she does. We have NEVER had to use hers to find a cache because the Colorado couldn't!! I see that people "bitch" about problems with the CO and the OR, and it seems like most of the complaints are, in my mind, non-geocaching issues. And this board is run by "Geocaching.com" not by Hiking.com or whatever.

 

When I "mark" a new hide, the numbers are within .002 of what she gets with averaging 150 readings.

 

Count me as a happy Garmin CO user. I'm sure there are more happy users out there than there are complainers that you read in this forum. After all, why write about something if there isn't anything to write about?

 

I think most geocachers, never even use the forums for anything.

 

So, I say dump the 60 and welcome to the 21st century!!

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I'm going by memory (so someone correct me if I'm wrong), but the PN-20 allowed for distance intervals from 10 to 999 feet, and time intervals of 1 to 99 seconds. You can automatically start recording a new track once the old one fills. There is a limit of 10 tracks, 10,000 trackpoints each.

 

I don't know how that compares to the 60csx.

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Is the 60CSx known as being more accurate then the Delorme products?

 

My Garmin 60Csx is getting old. It has found me caches and has been through some Bush-Whacking Hell.

 

I'm looking for a replacement after the first of the year <snip>

 

Wow, mine is pretty old too, however the way I look at it if it's not broke don't fix it.

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Is the 60CSx known as being more accurate then the Delorme products?

 

Not having done a side-by-side, my conjecture is that they are very similar. I don't feel that I've ever failed to find a cache due to an inadequacy in my PN-20's accuracy. Any failure to find is due to my ineptitude once my PN-20 has put me there.

 

Amost embarrassing to say this, but all those that have been found when I brought my grandchildren back to search, were right where the PN-20 put me the first time. :anibad:

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........ I just might change to a Delorme PN-40. It ain't out yet, but there have been some good writeups on it and it sounds much better and faster than the PN-20.

 

...........

Those of us who have been Beta testing the PN-40 have been under a strict NDA. This NDA has been somewhat relaxed earlier today.

 

In that light, please allow me to respond that in my side by side tests, the 40 is noticeably faster than the 20, particularly with respect to map redraws.

 

Any other questions?

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Those of us who have been Beta testing the PN-40 have been under a strict NDA. This NDA has been somewhat relaxed earlier today.

 

In that light, please allow me to respond that in my side by side tests, the 40 is noticeably faster than the 20, particularly with respect to map redraws.

 

Any other questions?

Did you take it to Badwater :D

 

Earlier I was going to suggest as a joke that letting you beta test one my give them that data; didn't know you were already doing it ;)

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In that light, please allow me to respond that in my side by side tests, the 40 is noticeably faster than the 20, particularly with respect to map redraws.

 

Any other questions?

Ya. Battery Life? The unimpressive PN-20 battery life was a major contributor for me to get an eTrex last year.

 

Best test I know is to start with charged batteries, reset the odometer, set it outside and run it until it's dead, then read the odo. Also, what battery?

 

Thanks

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In that light, please allow me to respond that in my side by side tests, the 40 is noticeably faster than the 20, particularly with respect to map redraws.

 

Any other questions?

Ya. Battery Life? The unimpressive PN-20 battery life was a major contributor for me to get an eTrex last year.

 

Best test I know is to start with charged batteries, reset the odometer, set it outside and run it until it's dead, then read the odo. Also, what battery?

 

Thanks

From me:

Those of us who have been Beta testing the PN-40 have been under a strict NDA. This NDA has been somewhat relaxed earlier today.

 

Let me emphasize the somewhat. More to come with a subsequent relaxation. :D

 

Hertzog: No, not Badwater, yet. But I did take it to Kennedy Meadows up in the Sierras. The barometric altimeter worked well and I located all the caches that I sought. ;)

I'll meet you in Borrego Springs in Nov and we can check it there.

Edited by Team CowboyPapa
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Battery Life? The unimpressive PN-20 battery life was a major contributor for me to get an eTrex last year.

 

Best test I know is to start with charged batteries, reset the odometer, set it outside and run it until it's dead, then read the odo. Also, what battery?

That's one of the things still under development; we can't yet go there. I *can* say that they've got one of the most flexible battery approaches I've encounterd (both PN-20 and 40): 2 AAs (alkiline, NiMH, or lithium) *or* a rechargeable CR-V3 Li-Ion. The Li-Ion can be recharged in the GPS. I rarely had to remove my PN-20 battery cover.

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Battery Life? The unimpressive PN-20 battery life was a major contributor for me to get an eTrex last year.

 

Best test I know is to start with charged batteries, reset the odometer, set it outside and run it until it's dead, then read the odo. Also, what battery?

That's one of the things still under development; we can't yet go there. I *can* say that they've got one of the most flexible battery approaches I've encounterd (both PN-20 and 40): 2 AAs (alkiline, NiMH, or lithium) *or* a rechargeable CR-V3 Li-Ion. The Li-Ion can be recharged in the GPS. I rarely had to remove my PN-20 battery cover.

Thanks embra,

 

At least I know, I won't know today.

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Battery life has to be one of the biggest single struggles for a portable GPSr to maximize over/past 10 or more hours a day. Backlighting usage must be one of the biggest eaters. I wish the PN-40 the best.

 

There is a struggle here between battery voltage and capacity and electronic components that need lots of both and it is easily apparent in the Colorado GPS. Ni-M-H cells are 1.2 V with capacities up to 2700 mAh. Li-Ion cells are 3.6 V with capacities up to only 900 mAh that I could find. Alkaline are 1.5 V with apparently unpredictable capacity dependent on what the current drain is and they generally are not very suitable to recharge. Ni-Cad are 1.2 V but not popular for their inherent reasons.

 

Two Li-Ion in series gives 7 V and 900 mAh.

Two Li-Ion in parallel gives 3.6 V and 1800 mAh.

Two Ni-M-H in series gives 2.4 V and 2700 mAh.

 

The Colorado's backlighting is significantly affected by input voltage. Jumping from 2.4 V Ni-M-H to a 5 V external USB PC or car adapter gives a significant brightness increase. DON'T TRY This at home because Li-Ion cells are not approved for the Colorado or Oregon _but_ two Li-Ion in a CO would give the backlighting 7 V--a huge increase but likely detrimental to the display--but only 1/3 the capacity. This means if you got 9 hours with 2700 mAh Ni-M-H you'd get only 3 hours with Li-Ion in series. But if you could do Li-Ion in parallel you'd get a higher voltage of 3.6 V (then 2.4 V Ni-M-H in series) which would give you a somewhat brighter backlight inbetween 2.4 V and 5 V--but you'd get 1800 mAh instead of 2700 mAh.

 

I wonder if the PN-40 uses Li-Ion AA cells in series or parallel in a pack? I wonder why the industry hasn't tried 3 cells in series or parallel depending on type used in their respective GPSr's? Since backpacking necessitates carrying additional cells to keep our electronic gadgets going for many days anyway why hasn't Garmin and why doesn't DeLorme develop external power packs to plug in much like some some plug in external antenna? Maybe you still end up carrying more cells of whatever sort but Li-Ion is significanlty lighter if the GPS floats, you would get brighter backlighting for the Colorado, and you would get a much longer day of battery life--wouldn't you?

Edited by Ratsneve
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Battery life has to be one of the biggest single struggles for a portable GPSr to maximize over/past 10 hours. Backlighting usage must be one of the biggest eaters. I wish the PN-40 the best.
You forget, the PN-20/40 needs no BL in anything that resembles daylight. My eTrex certainly doesn't need any BL in daylight and when it is needed, the LED BL is brilliant.

 

Hence, for most uses the PN-40 battery life will be determined by its internal needs for the CPU and such, not the BL. That contrasts with the CO/OR which need some BL in sunlight, I think.

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Battery life has to be one of the biggest single struggles for a portable GPSr to maximize over/past 10 hours. Backlighting usage must be one of the biggest eaters. I wish the PN-40 the best.
You forget, the PN-20/40 needs no BL in anything that resembles daylight. My eTrex certainly doesn't need any BL in daylight and when it is needed, the LED BL is brilliant.

 

Hence, for most uses the PN-40 battery life will be determined by its internal needs for the CPU and such, not the BL. That contrasts with the CO/OR which need some BL in sunlight, I think.

It is good that the PN-40 has a screen that can manage less or no backlighting needs by design and/or size. If it was as much a need as the CO/OR along with dual CPUs, barometer, and 3-axis compass DeLorme would have quite a task getting a full days service out of one set of Li-Ions I suspect. With the Colorado turning ceratin features off to conserve battery life is an unfortunate game to play. It is interesting that the Oregon gets an additional hour battery life estimate over the Colorado. I know for myself while using the Colorado I always maximized screen brightness. I'm certain this won't be any different with the Oregon. I never actually tracked battery life much but would change out cells long before 15 hours. :ph34r:

Edited by Ratsneve
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I wonder if the PN-40 uses Li-Ion AA cells in series or parallel in a pack?

I can say that it is the same physical configuration as the PN-20. Therefore, the Li-Ion is a two cell battery pack which occupies the same space as 2 AA cells.

 

Allow me to add a note to that which Embra mentioned above: My general practice is to leave the LI-Ion pack in the GPSr all the time and, with the exception of up here exchanging data, it is in my Jeep. I have it connected to one of those 12V to USB adapters and, subsequently, I just don't worry about it although I do keep a spare set of AAs handy. :ph34r:

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I'm busy preparing airphotos for my 60Csx - part of a big mangrove mapping project. The PN-40 sounds like it would a great tool right now. In case someone knows: will it support user datums and projections? I would have to get Xmap to load images, but would they have to be calibrated in Xmap or could I import already calibrated images?

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Hertzog: No, not Badwater, yet. But I did take it to Kennedy Meadows up in the Sierras. The barometric altimeter worked well and I located all the caches that I sought. :ph34r:

I'll meet you in Borrego Springs in Nov and we can check it there.

The last time I was in Anza Borrego I almost stepped on a rattler :cry: (somewhere I've still got pictures of him/her). Since then I've gotten a bit soft, and traded my Jeep in for an Avalon; I'm not sure how it would handle Anza Borrego.

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I'm busy preparing airphotos for my 60Csx - part of a big mangrove mapping project. The PN-40 sounds like it would a great tool right now. In case someone knows: will it support user datums and projections? I would have to get Xmap to load images, but would they have to be calibrated in Xmap or could I import already calibrated images?

You're getting a little above my pay grade. There are a jillion datum choices, but I don't know that you can define your own. I don't think I understand what you mean by projections. I'm pretty sure you have to calibrate any imagery you bring into XMap...but my XMap knowledge is somewhat limited.

 

XMap is Delorme's professional mapping software, and there are several levels of features (I think all of us PN-20 owners here that have XMap have XMap Pro, the bottom rung. The other programs have more features. You ought to snoop out the XMap product page.

 

If you don't get satisfactory answers here, post questions at the Delorme Users Forum in the XMap section. There are some XMap gurus there who can be definitive. Another alternative is to call up Delorme.

 

I would suspect the NOAA charts might be handy for a mangrove mapping project.

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It is interesting that the Oregon gets an additional hour battery life estimate over the Colorado.
Why, they do have very different CPUs. The CO has a Mediatek, whereas the OR has the STM Cartesio. Of course the PN-40 has the same STM chip.

 

Also, that dual core is just marketing hype, the STM has those two cores in one chip whereas all other GPS's have two chips. It's actually a cost and power savings. But that's what ICs are all about for the last 50 years.

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Battery life has to be one of the biggest single struggles for a portable GPSr to maximize over/past 10 or more hours a day. Backlighting usage must be one of the biggest eaters. ...
One word: MONOCHROME.

 

More words: Color map screens looks spiffy. But often when I'm using a GPS I'm not looking at a map, I'm looking at text and numbers (position, elevation, speed, direction and distance to waypoint, etc). Daytime contrast and visibility a well made monochrome LCD will beat any color screen. At night the backlight can be a simple low-power LED.

 

My aging Explorist 210 gets a realistic 12 hours on a pair of cheap alkaline AA or rechargeable NiMH batteries. And as I often use lithium (Everyready E2) batteries, I can go for days without a battery change.

 

Why are there so few monochrome GPS units left in the consumer market place? Because color screen are price competitive - and "spiffy" trumps practical.

Edited by lee_rimar
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Battery life has to be one of the biggest single struggles for a portable GPSr to maximize over/past 10 or more hours a day. Backlighting usage must be one of the biggest eaters. ...
One word: MONOCHROME.

 

More words: Color map screens looks spiffy. But often when I'm using a GPS I'm not looking at a map, I'm looking at text and numbers (position, elevation, speed, direction and distance to waypoint, etc). Daytime contrast and visibility a well made monochrome LCD will beat any color screen. At night the backlight can be a simple low-power LED.

 

I'm sorry I think your wrong about battery life, compare a grey scale etrex legend(18hrs) to a LegendC or LegendCX(30hrs), heck even the LegendHCX gets almost 25hrs. You can compare any of the color 60series to the non colors ones and the color models blow them away in battery life.

 

I do agree I use the backlight more on my color models because unless Im in direct sunlight the screen is a bit harder to see, but I still end up getting better battery life than my Explorist 100, 200, 210, 400, sporttrak map, etrex legend, Lowrance H20 and meridian gold ever got.

Edited by hogrod
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One word: MONOCHROME.

 

More words: Color map screens looks spiffy. But often when I'm using a GPS I'm not looking at a map, I'm looking at text and numbers (position, elevation, speed, direction and distance to waypoint, etc). Daytime contrast and visibility a well made monochrome LCD will beat any color screen. At night the backlight can be a simple low-power LED.

Monochrome isn't B&W at all, rather ugly shades of gray. My color screen will render truer blacks and whites than your monochrome LCD.

 

Your monochrome would seem to be the obvious battery life answer, but the facts don't support your claim. When I purchased my eTrex Venture Cx, it had better battery life than all other eTrex's, B&W or color, counter intuitive as that may sound.

 

Secondly, you say you look at numbers, well I look at maps, 24K Topo maps which look vastly better in color than B&W. So much so that I'd not own a GPS at all were it not for those maps given my position on earth context. My numerical position is totally meaningless and worthless. That same position, shown as a marker on a color Topo, is a revelation.

 

Different folks, different strokes.

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[quote name='embra'

You're getting a little above my pay grade. There are a jillion datum choices, but I don't know that you can define your own.

 

Thanks, I'll check with the Xmap group once the forums are running again.

 

Re datums, GPSrs do have quite a few but they are only a fraction of the >1000 in existence. Almost all the islands I work in have their own, not in any unit, which has to be configured with the transform parameters for WGS84 to local. Same with projections, which also have to be configured if one is doing mapping rather than just navigation.

 

I wrote to Delorme about adding it to the PN-20 as it was initially not an option. I believe it was added but I've never used or even seen one.

 

Cheers.

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I overlooked that you might be operating outside US borders; I can see why that would be an issue. The datum choice list in the PN-20 does offer about a hundred datums, but I don't know enough if that begins to scratch the surface or not. I'm happy to spot-check for a few specific datums of interest if you wish.

 

If it turns out that XMap works well enough for your needs, you should be aware that Delorme did sell the PN-20 in an XMap package as well as the Topo7 package. I would expect they'll offer the same pairing with the PN-40. That might fit your needs better.

Edited by embra
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Thanks embra - I live and work in the Caribbean so a lot of GPSr features and packages aren't a bargain. It would be great if the PN-40 allows user defined settings and has a package with options other than US maps - I could really use it starting this week!

 

A couple of Datums of interest are Naparima (Trinidad), HMS Challenger (Barbados), Antigua Astro, Fort Charlotte (St. Vincent).

 

Projection settings are likely in the same place as settings for degrees vs UTM etc. It would be user-defined TM options. At least that's where it is on Garmins.

 

I'm really hoping the PN-40 stacks up - it will be a great step forward for people outside the US and Europe.

 

Meanwhile the "old" 60Csx gives me position, water depth and temperature on screen when I'm mapping by kayak!

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This is like an Easter egg hunt!

 

In the datum list I see Naparima, BWI.

 

I see no Antigua Astro, but there are Astro B4 Sorol, Astro Beacon E, Astro POS 71/4 (I like that one), and Astro Stn '52. All misses?

 

No likely candidates that I can see for HMS Challenger or Fort Charlotte, nor anything referencing the place they are used. Judging by the rather arcane (to me) datums that are listed, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Delorme would add them on request.

 

I looked on the Units screen, but I don't see anything for projections.

 

How the heck do you get water depth on the 60csx!!

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Thanks embra - I live and work in the Caribbean so a lot of GPSr features and packages aren't a bargain. It would be great if the PN-40 allows user defined settings and has a package with options other than US maps - I could really use it starting this week!

 

A couple of Datums of interest are Naparima (Trinidad), HMS Challenger (Barbados), Antigua Astro, Fort Charlotte (St. Vincent).

 

Projection settings are likely in the same place as settings for degrees vs UTM etc. It would be user-defined TM options. At least that's where it is on Garmins.

 

I'm really hoping the PN-40 stacks up - it will be a great step forward for people outside the US and Europe.

 

Meanwhile the "old" 60Csx gives me position, water depth and temperature on screen when I'm mapping by kayak!

Would you describe how water depth and water temperature work with your 60CSx please? How is this possible?

 

Thanks.

Edited by Ratsneve
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On the 60Csx you can set to display water depth and temperature. You just need the NMEA input to provide the info. If I've got this right, it shows my setup of assistant, GPS and sonar on the kayak. Antenna is on the top of the pole, sonar at the bottom, feeding into a data logger or the 60Csx:

 

DSCN4017-75.jpg

 

It took quite a while to work it all out but what a system! It logs depth with tracks so I can download to my mapping program (Map Maker Pro) and produce depth profiles, or with enough points a 3D view of the sea floor. The temperature is displayed but not saved.

 

Thanks for checking the Datums. Naparima is the only one from this region in the Garmin list as well. About the other examples, with over 1000 Datums in existence it isn't surprising that something in use for only one small island in the Caribbean doesn't get included. Actually it is often better to have the user-defined option, because the transform parameters from/to WGS84 are just estimates and vary with who did them and on which part of the island. Now if only the earth was flat we wouldn't have this confusion.

Edited by reef mapper
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