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Does Your County's Forest Preserve District Police GeoCaching?


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Here in Kane County Illinois we now have to get a permit sticker for any/every cache we place.They've also limited the number of caches to 5 per preserve! These permits must be renewed every January and any cache found after January 1,2009 that doesn't have a permit affixed to it,will be "disposed of." Caches must be see-through and no larger than 4x8x12. If you want to place a cache you have to go out to the "potential" site with a Forest Preserve District employee!

 

Are there any other counties out there like this?

 

What's going to happen after January 1,2009? Are taxpayers going to be paying for Forest Preserve District personell to go Geocaching so they can pick up illegal caches ?

 

We think there are a lot more serious things going on in our Forest Preserves than Geocaches.We've seen things going on in the woods that we never imagined but our county is worried about rogue Geocachers who might be planning on hiding that 6th cache or a cache without a permit sticker ? As Geocachers we've seen things out there that the KCFP people probably have no idea about but they seem to have targeted us instead of concentrating on "other things" that are taking place in our preserves,serious things! Cache owners in our county are now archiving handfuls of their caches at a time because they don't comply with the new rules.

 

KCFP decided to take over our sport and the freedom of our sport.What about caches that have been around for years without causing a single problem? Shouldn't they be "grandfathered?" Caches the KCFP never knew existed? They say if they find them they're going to "dispose of them?" What about the all the journeys and experiences attached to those old caches?? What if these caches have Geocoins and/or TB's in them? They've just decided to come in and take over and the attitude is,"If you don't like it,too bad."

 

We've only been caching for 1yr. 2 months but there are cachers in my county,like every county, who've been around since the beginning and I actually feel worse for them than I do for us and we really feel badly for cache owners in our county who have spent countless hours hiding numerous great caches in our preserves only to have to remove them now. We had just planned,2 days before these rules took place, to finally hide our first series along 10 miles of bike path, and just purchased a dozen ammo cans from Ebay.Now we can't hide them there because our containers are too big,not SEE-THROUGH and there's NO WAY we would EVER request a permit to hide a cache!! We own 1 cache,an adopted oldie from 2001 and THANK GOD it's not in Kane County. ;):):) (Edit: I forgot to mention that micros are NOT ALLOWED because they don't have PERMIT STICKERS that are small enough!! They might allow them later when they get PERMIT STICKERS that'll fit !

Edited by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind
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Here in Kane County Illinois we now have to get a permit sticker for any/every cache we place.They've also limited the number of caches to 5 per preserve! These permits must be renewed every January and any cache found after January 1,2009 that doesn't have a permit affixed to it,will be "disposed of." Caches must be see-through and no larger than 4x8x12. If you want to place a cache you have to go out to the "potential" site with a Forest Preserve District employee!

 

Are there any other counties out there like this?

 

What's going to happen after January 1,2009? Are taxpayers going to be paying for Forest Preserve District personell to go Geocaching so they can pick up illegal caches ?

 

We think there are a lot more serious things going on in our Forest Preserves than Geocaches.We've seen things going on in the woods that we never imagined but our county is worried about rogue Geocachers who might be planning on hiding that 6th cache or a cache without a permit sticker ? As Geocachers we've seen things out there that the KCFP people probably have no idea about but they seem to have targeted us instead of concentrating on "other things" that are taking place in our preserves,serious things! Cache owners in our county are now archiving handfuls of their caches at a time because they don't comply with the new rules.

 

KCFP decided to take over our sport and the freedom of our sport.What about caches that have been around for years without causing a single problem? Shouldn't they be "grandfathered?" Caches the KCFP never knew existed? They say if they find them they're going to "dispose of them?" What about the all the journeys and experiences attached to those old caches?? What if these caches have Geocoins and/or TB's in them? They've just decided to come in and take over and the attitude is,"If you don't like it,too bad."

 

We've only been caching for 1yr. 2 months but there are cachers in my county,like every county, who've been around since the beginning and I actually feel worse for them than I do for us and we really feel badly for cache owners in our county who have spent countless hours hiding numerous great caches in our preserves only to have to remove them now. We had just planned,2 days before these rules took place, to finally hide our first series along 10 miles of bike path, and just purchased a dozen ammo cans from Ebay.Now we can't hide them there because our containers are too big,not SEE-THROUGH and there's NO WAY we would EVER request a permit to hide a cache!! We own 1 cache,an adopted oldie from 2001 and THANK GOD it's not in Kane County. ;):):) (Edit: I forgot to mention that micros are NOT ALLOWED because they don't have PERMIT STICKERS that are small enough!! They might allow them later when they get PERMIT STICKERS that'll fit !

 

Was this a stupid topic to start? Is this kind of thing commonplace,the norm ? I'm glancing around at topics and I've seen "permits" mentioned in the topic where the cachers found a cache that wasn't listed? We've cached in maybe 8 other counties and none have these rules but ours.

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Here in Kane County Illinois we now have to get a permit sticker for any/every cache we place.They've also limited the number of caches to 5 per preserve! These permits must be renewed every January and any cache found after January 1,2009 that doesn't have a permit affixed to it,will be "disposed of." Caches must be see-through and no larger than 4x8x12. If you want to place a cache you have to go out to the "potential" site with a Forest Preserve District employee!

 

Are there any other counties out there like this?

 

What's going to happen after January 1,2009? Are taxpayers going to be paying for Forest Preserve District personell to go Geocaching so they can pick up illegal caches ?

 

We think there are a lot more serious things going on in our Forest Preserves than Geocaches.We've seen things going on in the woods that we never imagined but our county is worried about rogue Geocachers who might be planning on hiding that 6th cache or a cache without a permit sticker ? As Geocachers we've seen things out there that the KCFP people probably have no idea about but they seem to have targeted us instead of concentrating on "other things" that are taking place in our preserves,serious things! Cache owners in our county are now archiving handfuls of their caches at a time because they don't comply with the new rules.

 

KCFP decided to take over our sport and the freedom of our sport.What about caches that have been around for years without causing a single problem? Shouldn't they be "grandfathered?" Caches the KCFP never knew existed? They say if they find them they're going to "dispose of them?" What about the all the journeys and experiences attached to those old caches?? What if these caches have Geocoins and/or TB's in them? They've just decided to come in and take over and the attitude is,"If you don't like it,too bad."

 

We've only been caching for 1yr. 2 months but there are cachers in my county,like every county, who've been around since the beginning and I actually feel worse for them than I do for us and we really feel badly for cache owners in our county who have spent countless hours hiding numerous great caches in our preserves only to have to remove them now. We had just planned,2 days before these rules took place, to finally hide our first series along 10 miles of bike path, and just purchased a dozen ammo cans from Ebay.Now we can't hide them there because our containers are too big,not SEE-THROUGH and there's NO WAY we would EVER request a permit to hide a cache!! We own 1 cache,an adopted oldie from 2001 and THANK GOD it's not in Kane County. ;):):) (Edit: I forgot to mention that micros are NOT ALLOWED because they don't have PERMIT STICKERS that are small enough!! They might allow them later when they get PERMIT STICKERS that'll fit !

 

Was this a stupid topic to start? Is this kind of thing commonplace,the norm ? I'm glancing around at topics and I've seen "permits" mentioned in the topic where the cachers found a cache that wasn't listed? We've cached in maybe 8 other counties and none have these rules but ours.

 

No, Kane County is stupid.

 

Jim

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Here in Kane County Illinois we now have to get a permit sticker for any/every cache we place.They've also limited the number of caches to 5 per preserve! These permits must be renewed every January and any cache found after January 1,2009 that doesn't have a permit affixed to it,will be "disposed of." Caches must be see-through and no larger than 4x8x12. If you want to place a cache you have to go out to the "potential" site with a Forest Preserve District employee!

 

Are there any other counties out there like this?

 

What's going to happen after January 1,2009? Are taxpayers going to be paying for Forest Preserve District personell to go Geocaching so they can pick up illegal caches ?

 

We think there are a lot more serious things going on in our Forest Preserves than Geocaches.We've seen things going on in the woods that we never imagined but our county is worried about rogue Geocachers who might be planning on hiding that 6th cache or a cache without a permit sticker ? As Geocachers we've seen things out there that the KCFP people probably have no idea about but they seem to have targeted us instead of concentrating on "other things" that are taking place in our preserves,serious things! Cache owners in our county are now archiving handfuls of their caches at a time because they don't comply with the new rules.

 

KCFP decided to take over our sport and the freedom of our sport.What about caches that have been around for years without causing a single problem? Shouldn't they be "grandfathered?" Caches the KCFP never knew existed? They say if they find them they're going to "dispose of them?" What about the all the journeys and experiences attached to those old caches?? What if these caches have Geocoins and/or TB's in them? They've just decided to come in and take over and the attitude is,"If you don't like it,too bad."

 

We've only been caching for 1yr. 2 months but there are cachers in my county,like every county, who've been around since the beginning and I actually feel worse for them than I do for us and we really feel badly for cache owners in our county who have spent countless hours hiding numerous great caches in our preserves only to have to remove them now. We had just planned,2 days before these rules took place, to finally hide our first series along 10 miles of bike path, and just purchased a dozen ammo cans from Ebay.Now we can't hide them there because our containers are too big,not SEE-THROUGH and there's NO WAY we would EVER request a permit to hide a cache!! We own 1 cache,an adopted oldie from 2001 and THANK GOD it's not in Kane County. ;):):) (Edit: I forgot to mention that micros are NOT ALLOWED because they don't have PERMIT STICKERS that are small enough!! They might allow them later when they get PERMIT STICKERS that'll fit !

 

Was this a stupid topic to start? Is this kind of thing commonplace,the norm ? I'm glancing around at topics and I've seen "permits" mentioned in the topic where the cachers found a cache that wasn't listed? We've cached in maybe 8 other counties and none have these rules but ours.

 

No, Kane County is stupid.

 

Jim

Edited by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind
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I am guessing that calling them "stupid" and throwing out accusations isn't the best way to open a dialogue to try and "soften" the policy.

 

If they didn't hold some form of public input - start there and ask for a more thoughtful process - be prepared to answer a lot of questions and tactfully defend what you would like to see happen. Good Luck.

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While certainly we see Geocaches as benign, we do have to keep a few things in mind. One, Geocaching probably acts as an imposition on a park. You have people going off of beaten paths in search of caches, for one, but for another thing, you wind up with several unmonitored boxes all over your park.

 

Also, it's fine to disagree with Kane County's policy (and perfectly fine to seek to change it), but you have to keep in mind that they don't have to "let" people do anything in their parks.

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The intent of your post is not clear to me. If it's just to vent, that's fine by me. There aren't many folks outside of a geocaching forum who will understand your frustration at running into a geocaching policy, or your disappointment at buying those lovely ammo cans, only to find that your plans cannot be executed..

So if it was just a vent, I hope it helped. ;)

 

On the other hand if it was really a question, ie, what kind of geocaching policies exists elsewhere, then here's some information, about Florida - and I suspect you'd find much information about geocaching policy on your stage association website.

 

 

In Florida,

all caches in the state's many many state forests require a permit, no fee, no container restrictions;

 

all caches in the many many land management by Fish & Wildlife require a permit, ammo cans only, and the application requires your Social Security # so you can be checked against the national database for outstanding child support payments (a requirement I find amazingly annoying, justified in Federal law),

 

several county preservation agencies have permit requirements, one with a .5 mile saturation rule, ammo cans only;

 

several county park systems have permit systems (at least one of those systems is broken - the permits never come, even after the local park manager has signed off),

 

3 of the state's large water management districts have permit systems, no fee, no container requirements, 2 of those systems are unresponsive; response time varies from months to never....

 

I could go on, but I won't.

 

I've seen some success stories. One of those Water Management Districts dropped permits, and went to "place caches freely"; one of the larger state forests, bound by the state requirement on permits, issues permits by phone or email;' yes, it's a permit system, but there's no wait, or checking of the cache. You ask, they issue. A large county park system, contemplating rules on caches, decided to leave caching alone after discussions with local cachers.

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The intent of your post is not clear to me. If it's just to vent, that's fine by me. There aren't many folks outside of a geocaching forum who will understand your frustration at running into a geocaching policy, or your disappointment at buying those lovely ammo cans, only to find that your plans cannot be executed..

So if it was just a vent, I hope it helped. ;)

 

On the other hand if it was really a question, ie, what kind of geocaching policies exists elsewhere, then here's some information, about Florida - and I suspect you'd find much information about geocaching policy on your stage association website.

 

 

In Florida,

all caches in the state's many many state forests require a permit, no fee, no container restrictions;

 

all caches in the many many land management by Fish & Wildlife require a permit, ammo cans only, and the application requires your Social Security # so you can be checked against the national database for outstanding child support payments (a requirement I find amazingly annoying, justified in Federal law),

 

several county preservation agencies have permit requirements, one with a .5 mile saturation rule, ammo cans only;

 

several county park systems have permit systems (at least one of those systems is broken - the permits never come, even after the local park manager has signed off),

 

3 of the state's large water management districts have permit systems, no fee, no container requirements, 2 of those systems are unresponsive; response time varies from months to never....

 

I could go on, but I won't.

 

I've seen some success stories. One of those Water Management Districts dropped permits, and went to "place caches freely"; one of the larger state forests, bound by the state requirement on permits, issues permits by phone or email;' yes, it's a permit system, but there's no wait, or checking of the cache. You ask, they issue. A large county park system, contemplating rules on caches, decided to leave caching alone after discussions with local cachers.

Thank you for the very informative response.I started this topic for both reasons;to vent and to maybe acquire information about other states and counties,like the information you provided,to see where we stand amidst it all.It's all very interesting and in my opinion,Kane County is still looking OVERLY strict and a bit ridiculous with the rules that caches must be clear,a certain size,5 per preserve,no micros,renewal every year,meeting with fp personel. That's strict and I've only spoken to 9 other cachers that we know and NONE of them will be placing caches in Kane County again.Between 4 of them so far, almost 100 caches have been and will be archived and need to be picked up.

 

As for Fish & Wildlife areas,we were NEVER able to put caches there under any circumstances and I'm really surprised that Florida allows caches in those areas there.

 

Well,I learned a lot from your response so THANK YOU !

Edited by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind
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We better all get used to permits. I believe it's the way the game is going everywhere.

 

Why is it you ask?

 

I think there are 3 major causes.

 

1. Irresponsible geocachers placing questionable caches or hunting legit caches in a questionable manner. Cemetary caches with logged photos of drunken cachers hanging from headstones..... that sort of thing.

 

2. Overly zealous cachers contacting public property land managers trying to get permission to hide a cache. Most of us do not speak the language of politics. When a regular cacher tries to do the right thing and get permission it triggers the political process which usually ends up in a caching ban outright, or some other permit policy.

 

3. Self appointed caching cops contact public property land managers asking if they require permission to place or hunt a geocache. If they do, the cache cop is more than willing to assist in facilitating a policy to ensure the safe placement of the flood of impending geocaches.

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We better all get used to permits. I believe it's the way the game is going everywhere.

 

Why is it you ask?

 

I think there are 3 major causes.

 

1. Irresponsible geocachers placing questionable caches or hunting legit caches in a questionable manner. Cemetary caches with logged photos of drunken cachers hanging from headstones..... that sort of thing.

 

2. Overly zealous cachers contacting public property land managers trying to get permission to hide a cache. Most of us do not speak the language of politics. When a regular cacher tries to do the right thing and get permission it triggers the political process which usually ends up in a caching ban outright, or some other permit policy.

 

3. Self appointed caching cops contact public property land managers asking if they require permission to place or hunt a geocache. If they do, the cache cop is more than willing to assist in facilitating a policy to ensure the safe placement of the flood of impending geocaches.

BadAndy,I agree TOTALLY with every word of your post ! Very well said ! I believe cachers themselves might be the eventual downfall of the sport.We're really bummed about the new rules.Kane County is huge and I'm looking at a KCFPD property map right now from 2006 and it owns(at that time,not sure how much new land they've purchased or how many preserves have been expanded),14,683 acres and approximately 50 preserves along with approximately 15 miles of our Great Western Trail,parts of our Fox River Trail that run through some of their preserves and a small part of our Prarie Path which runs from Elgin to Chicago(with tons of forks that go off in all sorts of directions).

 

I don't know,it's just a sad day for us because we won't be placing caches in our own county.What's kind of funny is every preserve in the county already has at least 5 caches in it !!! ;)

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...

3. Self appointed caching cops contact public property land managers asking if they require permission to place or hunt a geocache. If they do, the cache cop is more than willing to assist in facilitating a policy to ensure the safe placement of the flood of impending geocaches.

BadAndy,I agree TOTALLY with every word of your post ! Very well said ! I believe cachers themselves might be the eventual downfall of the sport.We're really bummed about the new rules.Kane County is huge and I'm looking at a KCFPD property map right now from 2006 and it owns(at that time,not sure how much new land they've purchased or how many preserves have been expanded),14,683 acres and approximately 50 preserves along with approximately 15 miles of our Great Western Trail,parts of our Fox River Trail that run through some of their preserves and a small part of our Prarie Path which runs from Elgin to Chicago(with tons of forks that go off in all sorts of directions).

 

I don't know,it's just a sad day for us because we won't be placing caches in our own county.What's kind of funny is every preserve in the county already has at least 5 caches in it !!! :unsure:

While I'm not saying that Kane County is (or is not) being over-reaching in their policy, I don't see anything wrong with asking permission to place a cache. They manage the parks, and occasionally (as has happened in this area, probably yours too) caches with the best intentions have caused issues in area parks. Ever see a 'geo-trail?' There's more than one cache I'm aware of here that has a noticeable path from parking to ground zero. That's environmentally damaging. There's one issue. Another issue could be parking in no parking areas. There was a series of caches on a beautiful scenic drive with no parking. It was noted at least three times on the cache page, but people still parked on the drive to get the cache. The parks department, who typically don't have an issue with caching, slapped a 'needs maintenance' note on the 'offending' caches and sent the owner a separate note. Those caches have been archived by the owner.

The Michigan Department of Natural Resources has a permit system for State Parks. Each cache cost the hider $25 for the permit. A couple cachers worked with the DNR for quite some time to help them realize the money they could gain in day-use and annual stickers by opening up the policy somewhat. Now, our state caching organization pays for a blanket 'permit;' the hider still has to get permission from the park management, but it no longer costs the hider anything for a permit. Yes, we still need permission, but at least there's no blanket restriction.

Work with the parks department, with either your local caching organization (they may have more resources than what you're aware of) or on your own, and perhaps you can be the ones to get the standards loosened.

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Yes the parks are owned by the Government (Fed, State or Local). They are their for many reasons. It is the job of the manager of that park to ensore that fair use is done with in their guidelines. Some parks are more for keeping nature healthy others are more for our fun. I think they have a very tough job to do, on one hand people are telling them they have to stop the use and let nature have her way, on the other hand people are saying their is not enough people friendly use. GeoCaching is just a very small part of the big picture.

 

Many areas have different rules on Geocaching. In one S.P. near me they have some rules. A permit system is in place for putting Geocaches. You get a form and fill it out and submit it. It is reviewed by a naturalist and park management. Also the cache has to be removed at the end of 3 years. Recently a person has placed caches in the S.P. before the permit came through. Their are some caches still their after 3 years. This type of behavior will cause us problems in the future.

 

Most permit systems I have heard of is more to let the manager know that their is something their and to help them balance the parks usage. This way when a muggle comes across it and dial 911 they know that it is most likely a harmless geocache and not something that will harm lots of people.

 

If placing in a park then you should ask permission of the manager for that park. If you place without getting permission and Emergency Services have to show up and close the park and check you "device" out then you will be talking to some other people. In lots of places you will receive a bill for services rendered.

 

Different places have different rules and regulations. Some do a permit system, some do not care, some have a ton of regulations for geocaching. Just depends on the people involved.

 

The systems that have good relations with geocachers seem to have the better regulations for our sport. The ones that have had problems with geocachers seem to have the heaver regulations (or no contact).

 

Why not contact the manager and open a dialog with them. It might prove fruitful in getting the regulations opened up and more friendly.

 

I hope this helps

 

kf4oox - Paul

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