Arrested?

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

In a separate thread, the topic of being arrested for hunting a cache placed without permission got me into asking this direct question:

 

How many of you have been arrested for geocaching?

 

I don't mean questioned by the property management, or questioned by neighbors, or shouted at by neighbors, or questioned by police, or asked to leave the property by police. I mean "I'm taking you in for further questioning" handcuffs back-of-the-squad-car ARRESTED for geocaching.

 

I don't mean arrested because you were on the property outside allowable hours (eg. cemeteries and parks that close at night, etc) because that would be your own fault, but because you were stopped on your way inbetween reading to orphans to innocently hunt a cache that you believed was placed with permission... but wasn't.

 

How many of you have been arrested for geocaching? And did you sit in the cell all night?

 

It's never happened to me, but maybe I just haven't found enough.

 

 

- Elle

[AZcachemeister]

I really doubt there has ever been anyone arrested for Geocaching.

 

There may be some folks who were arrested for what they were doing while Geocaching, but you have eliminated them.

 

Also, judging by some of the attitudes expressed here, there may be some who were arrested for failure to co-operate with an officer!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of geocachers across the world hunt many hundreds of thousands of caches, with the net result of their efforts yielding many millions of finds per year (I am summing across all geocaching sites, but the vast majority of the bulk lies with Groundspeak's geocaching.com site), I have only heard of two arrests which may meet your definition, and in each case, the geocacher was arrested for being on privately-owned property while hunting a cache that s/he apparently believed to have been placed with permission.

 

One such arrest, which was detailed rather thoroughly on the forum a couple of years ago by the cacher involved, apparently occurred because the cacher (located in the USA) was hunting a cache on a small strip of greenway land adjacent to a gas station (under the sign, as I recall) and on the property of the gas station, and in this case, if I recall correctly, the cacher was convicted of trespassing (or something similar) and, strangely, was not allowed to go geocaching for one year as part of his sentence.

 

In the other case, which was related to me recently by a Groundspeak reviewer, s/he received a panicked phone call in the middle of the night from a cacher, still on-site and still with the police at hand, who had been hunting a newly-placed cache (which, it turned out, had been placed without permission on private property) late at night and was confronted by the police and advised that he was trespassing on private property without permission; all I know is what the reviewer told me of the call, and, if I recall correctly, he reported that he was told at the end of the call that the cacher had been advised by the police that they were about to arrest him and take him in to the station. I have never heard ANY further details regarding the outcomes of that encounter with the police, and, since I never heard anything about that matter via the geo gossip grapevine, I suspect that the officers were simply trying to scare some common sense into the cacher (for it did turn out that the cache had been placed without permission on private property and the cache listing was subsequently archived) and that they never ultimately arrested him. I am quite sure that if the cacher had actually been arrested, the tale of the incident would have lit up all the tendrils and branches of the geo gossip grapevine for the next year.

 

There was one more case, this one also reported on the forum, about 1.5 to 2 years ago, where a US cacher was hunting a cache placed without permission on private property and was given a summons/citation (I do not seem to recall him having claimed that he was actually arrested, i.e., cuffed and stuffed), but the prosecutor ultimately chose to ignore the matter and never brought it to trial.

 

That is about it!

 

Personally, I am fascinated by, and grateful for, the fact that the arrest rate for geocachers going about their sport of geocaching is nearly zero. And personally, I strongly suspect that the ultimate outcome of a geocacher's encounter with the police, that is, whether s/he ends up being arrested, depends to a very large degree on the cacher's attitude and how they comport themselves during the encounter. My own experience, even when "caught" in what appear at first glance to be very incriminating and extremely adverse circumstances, has always been that if you deal with the matter in a calm and sane and reasonable fashion, and stay friendly and happy, then it all works out okay; I told a hilarious tale on the forum a couple of years ago about such an encounter that I had a few years ago with police late at night in a city in Missouri, when I was pulled over by police while driving a beat-up old van (a "beater") that had been loaned to me by a client company for the duration of my consulting visit to their city; the van did not have a valid vehicle inspection sticker (out of date), did not have valid insurance (expired a month earlier), had non-functional directional signals in the rear, and was still showing on police records as having been stolen by two armed felons two months earlier, and there was a large hunting knife and also a marijuana joint (left behind by the car thieves a month or two earlier) in the glove compartment.

[+JacobBarlow]

I cache a lot at night, and have probably been questioned by police a hundred or more times about what I was doing while geocaching... but as long as you are honest and willing, I don't see how it could ever turn out bad, the best that could happen? They will help you look for it. The worst? They will ask you to leave and you say "OK."

[+Star*Hopper]

I've wondered about something. When one asks permission to place a cache and it is granted, there is the implied permission also that others will have the 'right' to come onto the property to hunt it. I feel fairly sure there are a good number of property owners who don't think of nor consider that part when they grant the permission.

 

I can't help but wonder how many of you take the care to explain that condition to the owner when you're asking for his okay. Also, any cases where the owner had 2nd thoughts or changed his mind after he saw a high volume of traffic, etc.?

 

More OT - I've been interrupted once & questioned. The cop thought I was drunk! (To be where I was, & doing what I was doing.) When he asked was I.....I just said "Not yet", & we both had a good laff over it.

~*

[+Kit Fox]

I really doubt there has ever been anyone arrested for Geocaching.

 

There may be some folks who were arrested for what they were doing while Geocaching, but you have eliminated them.

 

Also, judging by some of the attitudes expressed here, there may be some who were arrested for failure to co-operate with an officer!

 

How about detained for hours?

 

High-tech hobby sets off security turmoil at LAX

Geocaching, a game that combines GPS devices and scavenger hunting, raised red flags at the airport last week.

By Ian Gregor and Nick Green

Daily Breeze

 

Jay Furr was participating in a high-tech treasure hunt.

 

Police mistook him for a possible terrorist.

 

 

And so Furr's quick dash to Los Angeles International Airport last week turned into an hours-long ordeal that saw him spread-eagled against a police car, handcuffed, locked in a jail cell and interrogated by police and FBI agents, curious as to why a large, bearded man was lurking alone with a global positioning system in a secluded area near the state's top terrorist target.

 

"An airport perimeter the night before a national election is, evidently, a bad place to be found strolling blithely around with a GPS in hand," Furr wrote in an Internet posting.

 

Furr's ordeal began Monday night when the software trainer from Vermont left his Century Boulevard hotel room to stash a green and purple toy snake in a plastic container that was hidden on the north side of LAX, wedged between a shrub and a chain-link fence, near Northside Parkway and Loyola Boulevard. His endeavor was part of a game called "geocaching," in which players use GPS to find items that others have planted.

 

Shortly after sunset, Furr found the LAX cache, placed the snake inside, removed three or four other items that he intended to transport to other parts of the country, and prepared to walk away. That's when two LAPD motorcycle officers rolled up and asked him what he was doing.

 

"I said I was only out for a walk," Furr said in an interview. The officers asked what he was holding. He told them it was a GPS.

 

"Then (they) called in the cavalry," Furr said. "At one point, I believe there were about 10 (police) cars present, all there for me."

 

Furr found himself in hot water because a game that is largely unknown to the public and law enforcement collided with post-Sept. 11 security concerns. Indeed, authorities were so concerned that terrorists could use Northside Parkway to shoot down a plane with a shoulder-fired missile that they closed that street and three others nearby to vehicular traffic in May 2002. It remains open to pedestrians.

 

What city officials did not know is that geocachers had hidden a container at Northside and Loyola five weeks earlier. Despite the area's supposed sensitivity, 463 people had visited the site without incident until Furr came along, according to a log book kept with the cache, which was known as "Grand Central Station."

 

Why a cache was placed there is unknown. Guidelines on http://web.archive.org/web/20041109055331/...geocaching.com/ tell players not to hide things near railroad tracks, military installations and public structures deemed possible terrorist targets, including highway bridges, dams, government buildings -- and airports.

 

"LAX is not an appropriate venue for this type of activity," said Paul Haney, LAX's deputy executive director of communications. "LAX is on about 3,700 acres of land. Fortunately, there are millions of other acres in the state that are available for this type of hobby."

 

LAX isn't the only place where misunderstandings have had interesting consequences. In Modesto and central Indiana during the past week alone, police bomb squads blew up caches that were mistaken for possible explosives, according to published reports.

 

Nor is the LAX cache the only one in the South Bay that could be considered inappropriate. At least two are attached to the bottom of U.S. mailboxes in busy areas -- a Torrance subdivision and a Torrance business park. Another is close to railroad tracks near a Dow chemical plant and the ExxonMobil oil refinery.

 

That cache has attracted 57 geocachers since it was hidden in April, with several expressing concern about the location.

 

"This is certainly an interesting spot," geocacher EScout wrote at geocaching.com after visiting the site earlier this year. "Crossing railroad tracks, in the railroad right of way between a refinery and chemical facility. Because of the fear of being mistaken as a terrorist, I got out of here quickly."

 

Furr, 37, said he had qualms about the LAX site and almost didn't visit it on Monday.

 

"I had cold feet, I shouldn't have gone," said Furr, who geocaches with his wife, Carole, under the moniker "Otter and Lemur."

 

He didn't know that another factor was in play as well. A few nights earlier, police had stopped a French citizen who was videotaping the Sepulveda tunnel beneath an LAX runway. Haney said he turned out to be nothing more than a plane spotter -- somebody who visits airports throughout the world to watch aircraft and write down their tail numbers -- but it's unclear whether that information filtered down to rank-and-file police officers.

 

What was clear was that the terror attacks that occurred in Spain in March, three days before that country's national election, were at the forefront of officers' minds the night before the U.S. election, Furr said.

 

"They wanted to make sure I was not chapter two of that same kind of thing," said Furr, who was taken to the LAPD's Pacific Division station.

 

Though fearful that he could be branded a terrorist and held indefinitely, Furr said he remained calm and tried to explain the concept of geocaching to police. Finally, an officer visited geocaching.com, conferred with others, and Furr was allowed to leave.

 

But as he walked to his car, police called him back, saying they had just gotten hold of FBI agents who wanted to talk to him as well. Believing he would be arrested if he refused the invitation, Furr said he told them he would be happy to cooperate with the FBI and returned to the station -- this time sans handcuffs.

 

Furr said three FBI agents he spoke with were courteous during the hour he spent with them, and seemed to be amused as they examined items from the cache, which included a penguin, a skunk and a keychain soccer ball. But a fourth man, who was wearing a "POLICE" badge around his neck, dressed him down "something fierce," Furr said.

 

Reaction to the incident among geocachers was mixed. Some who posted messages on geocaching.com accused police of overreacting, while others -- including Furr -- said the response was reasonable given the circumstances.

 

"They were entirely justified in taking me in," Furr said. "I have no criticisms of the FBI at all and police were just doing their job."

 

As for the toy snake, Furr said he is mailing it to geocachers named Happy and Skippy in Fountain Valley, who will place it in a local cache so it will be closer to its intended destination in the state of Washington.

[The Curious Onlooker]

While not directly involved in an arrest while geocaching Hillwilly was arrested for a tresspassing among other this for the Tunnel Vision "1909" cache.

 

There was even an event held (listed as a virt) for the court proceedings called GEO-COURT

[Skippermark]

I cache a lot at night, and have probably been questioned by police a hundred or more times about what I was doing while geocaching...

We cache a lot at night too and were in CA one night at 2 a.m. in an area that was okay to be in. Of course, the cache was super hard and we weren't having any luck and ended up spending a lot of time there. Awhile later a cruiser pulled up and asked what we were doing. I gave a quick explanation and then he asked how we were doing.

 

"Overall for the night we're doing well," I said, "But we're having no luck on this one. It's a toughie." "Maybe this will help," he said as he turned on his big spotlight, and aimed it at ground zero. About then a couple security guards from the complex came over and joined in the search with their flashlights. A few minutes later another cruiser drove up, slowed down and tooted his horn and drove off.

 

It was like a party. 5 cachers, 3 police/security muggles and lots of light. Unfortunately, we had no luck and ended up DNFing it. I really wanted to find it so they could see what it was all about. After giving up, we told them we'd be in the area for a couple more hours and not to worry if they saw 5 strange people staring at the bushes.

 

Later on, we were passed by several other cruisers while searching and they all tooted and waved at us.

 

Overall, my experience with the police has always been positive.

 

Edit to fix goofed up quote.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Skippermark

[+Renegade Knight]

One cache owner was fined for "Placing debris on state property". This was the aftermath of a cache that was reported and generated a bomb squad responce where the authortites chose to shut down a major highway in the state. The cache itself was never listed and likely would not have been listed because of the guidelines on where not to place a cache.

 

My own experience has seen folks in front of me or behind me stopped by police and questioned. Police do tend to do that at night when people are out and about. In one case we were all going to a nigh cache. The police pulled over the group of cars in front of me (I was just catching up having made a wrong turn...) and when they found out they were adult cachers and not teens heading for a party, they were more than happy at the news.

 

Way, way back there was an incident reported in the forums were a cache on railroad land got the owner in hot water. That's when the guidelines about no caches on RR property came about. Rail Roads are perhaps the most anal land managers on the planet short of certain ex communist governments, and missle sites.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+9Key]

I really doubt there has ever been anyone arrested for Geocaching.

 

There may be some folks who were arrested for what they were doing while Geocaching, but you have eliminated them.

 

Also, judging by some of the attitudes expressed here, there may be some who were arrested for failure to co-operate with an officer!

 

How about detained for hours?

 

High-tech hobby sets off security turmoil at LAX

Geocaching, a game that combines GPS devices and scavenger hunting, raised red flags at the airport last week.

By Ian Gregor and Nick Green

Daily Breeze

 

<snip>

I found that cache not long before the guy that got arrested. That could have been me. Yikes!

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

While not directly involved in an arrest while geocaching Hillwilly was arrested for a tresspassing among other this for the Tunnel Vision "1909" cache.

 

There was even an event held (listed as a virt) for the court proceedings called GEO-COURT

 

Wow! That's crazy!

 

I love that his court date got turned into a cache... but the whole telling about the hearing is just crazy.

 

I wonder why he didn't plead Not Guilty then get an attorney to represent him. He would've been pled down with the judge signing off on whatever the attorney and DA agreed.

 

- Elle

[+JeremyR]

How about detained for hours?

 

High-tech hobby sets off security turmoil at LAX

(snip)

...interrogated by police and FBI agents, curious as to why a large, bearded man was lurking alone with a global positioning system in a secluded area near the state's top terrorist target.

Oh my, he had a beard?! Run for the hills!

 

But seriously, clearly the mistake there was lying to them. Telling the cops that you're "only out for a walk" while rummaging in the bushes against an airport perimeter fence with a GPS in your hand, was only going to end one way...

 

A better response would perhaps have been "I'm geocaching, officer," to which the response would presumably have been "What's that?" and the opportunity to explain his activities before being told to turn around and spread 'em.

[Mr.Yuck]

I really doubt there has ever been anyone arrested for Geocaching.

 

There may be some folks who were arrested for what they were doing while Geocaching, but you have eliminated them.

 

Also, judging by some of the attitudes expressed here, there may be some who were arrested for failure to co-operate with an officer!

 

How about detained for hours?

 

 

I was only detained for minutes. About 15, I'd say. By what I assume was the entire first shift of the Clark, New Jersey PD. A robbery suspect was in the neighborhood, and when caught by Police, he was questioned by police about the nearby car with out of State plate (albeit New York plates, not far away). The suspect said he was with me, which it took me a while to convince the Police I wasn't. Why on earth he tried to implicate me, I'll never know. I assume I raised some eyebrows by parking on a dead-end street, and entering the woods near a middle school.

[+boda]

Everyone should avoid this site.. i was in panama last week looking for the cache . I was arrested by the panama police for using a GPS at this site.. the famous building they talk about is the presidents house.. I had no idea it was close to there. I and my buddy were held for 24hr and finally got help from USA government to be released... it was a very long and painful ordeal. I advice taking this site off the hunt.

This is a log on a cache I was co-FTF on a year earlier. The building is NOT the presidential palace, and it is about 100 yards from the cache location. It is now archived.

[+Headhardhat]

I too have been stopped on numurous occasions while caching. Usually the officer is just asking if my car broke down or if something is wrong and can they help.

 

I really wonder if it is time that we as cachers should be giving "lunch and learn" presentations to our local police stations. I know some cachers have already started doing such things. We have cachers all across the country and in pretty much every major and minor city. Why not do this on a national level and have an official week to do just that? Geo-Train our Law Enforcement.

 

As much as I think it is complete lunacy to wrap a lock n lock box with duct tape and put it under a bridge WITH NO LABEL. They have a job to do and investicate anything they can't identify. Yet maybe it is time for us to take a bigger step forward and help make their lives less hectic knowing we are out there having some fun and not to cause trouble.

 

Your thoughts?

 

-HHH

[Skippermark]

As much as I think it is complete lunacy to wrap a lock n lock box with duct tape and put it under a bridge WITH NO LABEL. They have a job to do and investicate anything they can't identify. Yet maybe it is time for us to take a bigger step forward and help make their lives less hectic knowing we are out there having some fun and not to cause trouble.

 

Your thoughts?

A LOT has to do with common sense and thinking about cache placement. It seems like it would be easy for someone to know if a hiding spot is sensible or not.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Skippermark

[+DocDiTTo]

Never been arrested. Hassled by some cops in California because I and the folks I was with weren't dressed up to standards and were skulking around public places (albeit legally) after dark. It didn't help that we were driving an old Mustang rather than a new Lexus, BMW, or Porsche as the locals mostly did. We left after being questioned once and passed slowly 2 or 3 times. Wasn't worth the hassle to stay.

 

Questioned by a local officer once behind a grocery store while caching with 2 others. After a quick explanation and a license check of the driver we were on our way.

 

I have a cache that's in an old mailbox in my yard, and I was talking to an out-of-town cacher who was visiting it when a local officer stopped on the road and asked what the mailbox was for. I invited him to come check it out. As soon as I mentioned Geocaching he laughed and said "Oh yeah, I know about that. I catch Geocachers all the time!"

 

Glad to know my local police are aware of our hobby. Also glad I don't have any REAL arrests to post about here.

Edited August 29, 2008 by DocDiTTo

[Skippermark]

In one case we were all going to a nigh cache.

We got questioned while doing a night cache in a state forest. We were 2 hours and a couple miles into the hike up on a ridge when a DEP truck pulled up on a forest road below us with his lights on and shined his spotlight into the woods. Instinctively, we shut off our lights and proceeded to listen in darkness as the park ranger told us we were trespassing and that we each could get a $70 ticket.

 

We didn't know the forest closed at dark because the cache brought us into the forest through a local town park which is open at night. The officer told us to come out, but we remained silent, hoping he would leave. We didn't want a ticket. "Don't make me come up there," he yelled.

 

Then he got into his truck, zoomed off down the road, made a u-turn, shut off his lights and sped down the road, stopping in the same spot and running up the trail, no flashlight or anything.

 

"What do we do?" someone asked. "I think we should run for it" another said. In our group was an older retired man, a middle aged woman, me and my wife also middle age and our 7 year old son.

 

"I'm not going to run through the woods with a 7 year old and no lights on," I replied and turned on my light so the officer could know where we were.

 

Everything turned out fine. I think he was surprised to see the "variety" in our group and quickly realized we weren't doing anything "bad." He told us that there are many deer poachers and other illegal things that happen in the forests at night. He explained that they're closed after dark so no one gets hurt.

 

As we were finishing up, we told him that we were almost done with the cache and asked if it would be okay if we continued.

 

"I'm sorry. I can't give you permission to do that," he said. "I have to head to another park right now to check out a call that just came in, so I won't be able to stay and watch you leave. Normally I would. Once I get in my truck, I'll be thinking about the other call and won't be thinking about you or have any idea how long it'll take you to get back to your car."

Edited August 29, 2008 by Skippermark

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

"I'm sorry. I can't give you permission to do that," he said. "I have to head to another park right now to check out a call that just came in, so I won't be able to stay and watch you leave. Normally I would. Once I get in my truck, I'll be thinking about the other call and won't be thinking about you or how will have no idea how long it'll take you to get back to your car."

 

I've gotten that line from police officers for other things and I giggle every time I think about it.

 

- Elle

[+OpenTrackRacer]

Wow! You've got some serious issues there buddy and California isn't the cause!

 

Still, I'm surprised they let you in the state with that sort of dress and car. I guess CHP is letting the guard down at the checkpoints again. Drat! There goes the neighborhood!

 

Never been arrested. Hassled by some cops in California because I and the folks I was with weren't dressed up to standards and were skulking around public places (albeit legally) after dark. It didn't help that we were driving an old Mustang rather than a new Lexus, BMW, or Porsche as the locals mostly did. We left after being questioned once and passed slowly 2 or 3 times. Wasn't worth the hassle to stay.

[+supertbone]

After I found The Zero Mile virtual cache GC2E52, which is infront of the White House, I was detained by the Secret Service. It was night time, I was alone, and wearing a black jacket. I guess I fit some profile.

 

You can read about my experience here.

 

Having never been in trouble with the law before and with all the post 9/11 paranoia going I was pretty scared. I thought I was going to be placed on some terrorist watchlist and/or get treated like a 'king' in Gitmo.

[+DocDiTTo]

Wow! You've got some serious issues there buddy and California isn't the cause!

 

Still, I'm surprised they let you in the state with that sort of dress and car. I guess CHP is letting the guard down at the checkpoints again. Drat! There goes the neighborhood!

 

Never been arrested. Hassled by some cops in California because I and the folks I was with weren't dressed up to standards and were skulking around public places (albeit legally) after dark. It didn't help that we were driving an old Mustang rather than a new Lexus, BMW, or Porsche as the locals mostly did. We left after being questioned once and passed slowly 2 or 3 times. Wasn't worth the hassle to stay.

 

Apparently on Coronado they don't like people in old Mustangs wearing dirty hiking/caching clothes. I was a bit surprised by the police reaction, but the owner of the Mustang said he gets that a lot when he goes to the island. It's a ritzy area I guess and without the right clothes and the right car you stand out. I guess we stood out a little too much. The fact that we were intently examining a sidewalk and storm drain right outside a public building probably didn't help us much.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

One such arrest, which was detailed rather thoroughly on the forum a couple of years ago by the cacher involved, apparently occurred because the cacher (located in the USA) was hunting a cache on a small strip of greenway land adjacent to a gas station (under the sign, as I recall) and on the property of the gas station, and in this case, if I recall correctly, the cacher was convicted of trespassing (or something similar) and, strangely, was not allowed to go geocaching for one year as part of his sentence.

 

True. This Arkansas geocacher was arrested for Criminal Trespass at a location as Vinny describes and given a one-year suspended sentence pending good behavior and ordered not to geocache during that year.

[+Renegade Knight]

One such arrest, which was detailed rather thoroughly on the forum a couple of years ago by the cacher involved, apparently occurred because the cacher (located in the USA) was hunting a cache on a small strip of greenway land adjacent to a gas station (under the sign, as I recall) and on the property of the gas station, and in this case, if I recall correctly, the cacher was convicted of trespassing (or something similar) and, strangely, was not allowed to go geocaching for one year as part of his sentence.

 

True. This Arkansas geocacher was arrested for Criminal Trespass at a location as Vinny describes and given a one-year suspended sentence pending good behavior and ordered not to geocache during that year.

 

Was the spot posted, or were you given any kind of advance warning? I'd hate to think you can be charged with trespassing because the owner is feeling a bit constipated.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Was the spot posted, or were you given any kind of advance warning? I'd hate to think you can be charged with trespassing because the owner is feeling a bit constipated.

I was the Arkansas Volunteer Reviewer at the time and this incident cemented my belief that Placement Permission Contact Info should be part of the listing submission process... an idea that has repeatedly met with very little support.

 

I felt terrible for the cacher's troubles and wanted to write the Court a letter stating that the cacher had no way to know that the cache did not have permission and that the cache listing amounted to an invitation to come on the property to hunt it but was told that this is not within a Reviewer's role.

 

The cache in question existed when I inherited the state so I do not know what permission was sought or given to the Reviewer at the time it was placed, if any. There were no notes to that effect on the listing page.

 

The land was not posted, it was in fact similar to any of the many thousands of caches on commercial property.

 

As I recall it had been found numerous times with no issue.

 

This was a case where a geocacher trusted that since it was published it had adequate permission. He was wrong and it cost him.

 

Yes, you can be arrested for Criminal Trespass just for hunting a cache that, completely unknown to you, was placed without permission.

 

While I had said it before, this incident also led me to coin the phrase "Geocaching's dirty little secret" meaning the fact that the majority of caches do not in fact have adequate permission.

Edited August 29, 2008 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+Castle Mischief]

Yes, you can be arrested for Criminal Trespass just for hunting a cache that, completely unknown to you, was placed without permission.

 

Keeping in mind that trespass laws differ greatly from state to state.

[+Jayrod7]

.....My friend's dad was arrested while caching....for a parking violation that is.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Yes, you can be arrested for Criminal Trespass just for hunting a cache that, completely unknown to you, was placed without permission.

 

Keeping in mind that trespass laws differ greatly from state to state.

Absolutely.

 

In my state, Alabama, Criminal Trespass in the Second Degree is a Class C Misdemeanor carrying a penalty of 6 months to one year in jail and a $500 to $1500 fine.

 

All it takes is for a land-owner to say "This person has no permission to be on my property and I want to press charges"

 

Here you can indeed be innocently hunting a geocache and Booom, you're toast.

[+Renegade Knight]

...All it takes is for a land-owner to say "This person has no permission to be on my property and I want to press charges"

 

Here you can indeed be innocently hunting a geocache and Booom, you're toast.

Sounds like just shopping can be harmful to your record if the owner doesn't like you.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

...All it takes is for a land-owner to say "This person has no permission to be on my property and I want to press charges"

 

Here you can indeed be innocently hunting a geocache and Booom, you're toast.

Sounds like just shopping can be harmful to your record if the owner doesn't like you.

True. If you are in a store or restaurant and asked to leave you'd best do it, because immediately after that request you are trespassing!

[AZcachemeister]

...All it takes is for a land-owner to say "This person has no permission to be on my property and I want to press charges"

 

Here you can indeed be innocently hunting a geocache and Booom, you're toast.

Sounds like just shopping can be harmful to your record if the owner doesn't like you.

True. If you are in a store or restaurant and asked to leave you'd best do it, because immediately after that request you are trespassing!

 

I think this holds true almost everywhere...if asked to leave, it's time to go!

 

ARS Title 13 - Criminal Code

 

13-1502. Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification

 

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the third degree by:

 

1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry.

 

2. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on the right-of-way for tracks, or the storage or switching yards or rolling stock of a railroad company.

 

B. Criminal trespass in the third degree is a class 3 misdemeanor.

 

13-1503. Criminal trespass in the second degree; classification

 

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the second degree by knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully in or on any nonresidential structure or in any fenced commercial yard.

 

B. Criminal trespass in the second degree is a class 2 misdemeanor.

 

13-1504. Criminal trespass in the first degree; classification

 

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the first degree by knowingly:

 

1. Entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure.

 

2. Entering or remaining unlawfully in a fenced residential yard.

 

3. Entering any residential yard and, without lawful authority, looking into the residential structure thereon in reckless disregard of infringing on the inhabitant's right of privacy.

 

4. Entering unlawfully on real property that is subject to a valid mineral claim or lease with the intent to hold, work, take or explore for minerals on the claim or lease.

 

5. Entering or remaining unlawfully on the property of another and burning, defacing, mutilating or otherwise desecrating a religious symbol or other religious property of another without the express permission of the owner of the property.

 

6. Entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a critical public service facility.

 

B. Criminal trespass in the first degree under subsection A, paragraph 1, 5 or 6 is a class 6 felony. Criminal trespass in the first degree under subsection A, paragraph 2, 3 or 4 is a class 1 misdemeanor.

 

It's interesting to note that, technically, unless you are in a residential yard to look inside the house, the yard must be fenced to constitute trespassing.

[+sbell111]

In most locales, in order to be guilty of trespassing, the area must be fenced or posted or you must have been told to leave. I rather doubt that any geocacher has been arrested without first getting an opportunity to leave a non-posted/fenced location. If so, I suspect that the real reason for the arrest could be traced to his/her attitude.

[+BadAndy]

Convicted?? Never.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...b8-f499b7c8b35b

[AZcachemeister]

Convicted?? Never.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...b8-f499b7c8b35b

 

The 'Convicted' thread doesn't start until next month...

[+Parabola]

One thing I have always suggested to newer cachers is to print out one of the cache sheet's explaning geo-caching and to carry that on you. I've found that I have been stop a couple of times at night and the officers where just doing their jobs. They saw a guy acting weird looking around from tree to tree. I've found that having that print out with you makes explaining what you are doing a little easier to explain.

 

I've yet to be stop while on private property by a law enforcement officer. I have been confronted by a land owner and I didn't relize I stummbled on to private property. But I've found that apoligizing and saying that I'll leave right now and will post a note on this cache page about this is on private property that has calmed down everyone I've been confronted by. I've been confronted three times by landowners that where a bit PO'ed I was tresspassing but after explaining they have calmed down and in fact have spent a while chatting about things. But then again I think I've been lucky and had some nice landowners to deal with.

[+marcasco]

hi all,

i heard a few weeks ago that in the city of ottawa, ontario, canada that th police had the bomb squad blowing up a cache left in a bus station, they tought that it was a terrorist treat and blow it up.

 

it appears in the ottawa citizen (newspaper).

 

this underline the necessity to advis the property owner when and where we put Caches.

 

marcasco

[+sbell111]

hi all,

i heard a few weeks ago that in the city of ottawa, ontario, canada that th police had the bomb squad blowing up a cache left in a bus station, they tought that it was a terrorist treat and blow it up.

 

it appears in the ottawa citizen (newspaper).

 

this underline the necessity to advis the property owner when and where we put Caches.

 

marcasco

I don't believe that a cache in a bus station would meet the current guidelines.

[+JennM]

hi all,

i heard a few weeks ago that in the city of ottawa, ontario, canada that th police had the bomb squad blowing up a cache left in a bus station, they tought that it was a terrorist treat and blow it up.

 

it appears in the ottawa citizen (newspaper).

 

this underline the necessity to advis the property owner when and where we put Caches.

 

marcasco

I don't believe that a cache in a bus station would meet the current guidelines.

 

I'm originally from Ottawa. I'm acquainted with a few of the locals up there as I was there in December (I live in Georgia now)... and did some caching with them - nice bunch!

 

That cache was placed on a bridge for a transitway station - a highway just for buses. Being the nation's capital, placing that on a major transportation thoroughfare, and if I remember correctly, not terribly far from the Department of National Defense Headquarters.... it was NOT the most sensible place for a cache. IMO it should have never been approved.... as it defied most of the published guidelines, not to mention good old common sense.

 

I've been asked ONCE what I was up to - actually Nuggs saw the officer as I was too focused on the lamp skirt I was investigating. It was at a bank parking lot on a Sunday afternoon. We handed the officer a brochure, he bid us good luck and that was that. That was my only encounter with law enforcement (and he was probably looking more at Nuggs than me )

 

The first time I cached ever, the first cache I found ever... the next person to come along shortly after us was busted. Cache had been there for a few years - at a municipal courthouse under the flagpole skirt. We found it on a Labor Day - nobody around. The next finder a short while later, had his vehicle searched as the police thought it was a drug drop or something. Made them keep the cache and it was archived later that night. Scared the heck out of me - what kind of hobby am I starting, that people get into trouble with police?!

 

I do think what you look like and how you address the officers questioning you, might have a lot to do with the eventual outcome. Same with land-owners and such. Be a jerk, they'll be one back. Be honest, friendly and straightforward and it's less likely to end up badly.

 

Jenn

[+NYPaddleCacher]

While not directly involved in an arrest while geocaching Hillwilly was arrested for a tresspassing among other this for the Tunnel Vision "1909" cache.

 

There was even an event held (listed as a virt) for the court proceedings called GEO-COURT

 

The first cache I attempted to place was denied due to proximity issue of a railroad track. I thought I might get an exception since the location was actually a town park. You had to cross the RxR tracks to enter the parking lot for the park, and the cache was place on the far side of the parking lot. In the reviewers response he referred tto the Hillwilly case and the GEO-COURT listing.

 

One of these days I might try to find a spot a bit further away that is outside the proximity guideline. Here's a photo I took to describe the hiding spot. I hide the cache just on the other side of the gazebo and you can see the RxR tracks at the far right.

 

[+Harry Dolphin]

Four years, and 1777 caches later, I have been approached by the police once. And that was last week. Small park, about 70 miles south of here. We parked, went for the cache, and returned to the car. There was a police car parked near the entrance. As we approached the stop sign, he honked, and walked up to the car. "If you guys want to use the Senior Citizens Building, for a party or such, you can check with town hall." He called me a 'Senior Citizen!' Thats just mean!

With 768 benchmarks logged, on the other fin, I have been questioned by the police twice. I was told that I was not permitted to 'hang out' on the Atlantic City/Brigantine Bridge. By the Brigantine Beach Police??

The police in the City of Summit told me that they question anyone taking photos in their city. Seems a bit paranoid. Not a friendly city.

Nope. No arrests yet. Give me a chance! (And I've cached in some pretty strange places.)

[+flask]

 

Jay Furr was participating in a high-tech treasure hunt.

 

 

hey, i know him!

 

i was never arrested, but i was detained and questioned for a couple of hours.

 

i took some pictures of an abandoned factory and a railroad bridge. followed it up by stepping a few feet (less than twenty) off of the roadway onto the RR ROW to look at a benchmark.

 

Q: why were you taking pictures of the bridge?

A: it's pretty.

 

Q: why were you taking pictures of the factory?

A: it's interesting to look at.

 

Q: why were you in the ROW?

A: i was looking at the benchmark.

 

this is pretty much the sum total of the questioning, but it took two and a half hours.

 

the factory was torn down a month or two later. the benchmark is still only a few feet off of the public road. police in some towns are still paranoid.

[+gelfling6]

I totally agree, Do Not Be Evasive! There's no reason to not be honest to the police. I usually keep a copy of the flier from the Resources page, folded-up in my wallet, for further explanation of the game. I think I've only had 2 encounters with police. Never anything negative, and not Cuffed & Stuffed.. If I'm somewhere I'm not supposed to be, I'm just asked to leave.. and I leave.. Pure & Simple!

 

Stephen (gelfling6)

[+Dread_Pirate_Bruce]

I'll add the following suggestion about what to do when asked: Not only should you say that you are looking for a geocache, you should state: "It is sort of a treasure hunt using a GPS; you may have read about it in the newspapers or on the internet." Since no one like to seem uninformed, they will generally say something to the effect that they have. That is a sufficient "ice breaker" to let you take the initiative and explain and/or demonstrate and will usually neutralize the situation.

[4wheelin_fool]

I have spoken to the police about a dozen times or more while caching. Half of them seem to know what it is, and the others just ask questions or are curious to know more about it. I have never gotten into any trouble.

There was one instance where I was leaving a cache site, and was concerned about being seen as looking suspicious by muggles. It had also just started to get dark and rain slightly. A car was following me very closely, despite driving the normal 5 mph over the speed limit. I was annoyed that I was being tailgated, so I slowed down to exactly the speed limit. As soon as I did that, there was red and blue flashing lights in the rearview mirror. I pulled over at the first available spot, and started to dig my insurance and registration out of the glovebox. After waiting for a very long time, I looked in the side view mirror and noticed 2 cars behind me and figured there was backup. The police officer finally walked up to the car and told me I could go without looking at any of my paperwork. This seemed odd, so I asked him why he pulled me over and he said that he didn't pull me over and he pointed to the car behind me and told me that he pulled him over. It was the strangest thing...

[+Bergie Bunch]

Well, we have only been at this for a few months, but I have been in public safety for 25 years, have my criminology degree, and am a pretty wise fellow, I think. I own a private security company, and carry a firearm. Today, while enjoying some down time, I was in a local County park, hiding a cache in a treeline, on a park road(gravel). As I was returning to my car, a local policeman pulled in, and stopped. He asked if I was OK? I said yes, I was just taking some GPS readings. He looked me dead in the eye and firmly stated "You can not use a GPS unit in a county park in this Twp." I was dumbfounded to say the least. I started to introduce myself, and go into more detail about what I was doing when he gruffly said he had to go. Ok, just gonna move on. BTW...my firearm was in the glove box) About 15 mins. later he passes me again, as I am placing another park n grab. I laughed to myself, and thought, here we go. As IO pulled out onto the road, he can back and spun around again, and started following me. No biggie, I did nothing, I thought! As I crossed the Twp. line into the next jurisdiction, the police cars came out of the wood work. I had 2 behind me, 1 in front of me, and another beside me. I pulled over and the first cop inches up to the car, asks for my papers. I gave him my license and carry permit for my gun. He asked "Why did you give me a carry permit?" I said "Because I am licensed to carry, and my gun is in the glove box. I don't want to get the rest of the paperwork for you until you secure the gun." WRONG THING TO DO!! HONESTY WAS WRONG!! GUNS FLY OUT! People are yelling, this guy must have NEVER stopped anyone who carries before. After cooler heads prevail, and another officer secures the gun from the glove box, I am dragged out of the car, searched, the car is searched. Of course, nothing is there to find. THen i see a meeting of the minds. They discovered my stash. 30 35mm film canisters painted camo, and papers, yup I had logs on me too! The first cop who stopped me initially is going nuts over my film cans. Finally a Sgt. comes over, asks what is going on. I explain GEOCACHING, tell him what I am doing, he says "My kid does that!" I told him about not being allowed to use a GPS in the park, he starts laughing his butt off.Realizing someone had screwed up BIG, he tells me to wait, goes over to the young officer, explains the facts of life to him, returns my weapon after checking my credentials, and off I went on my merry way. The last hing the young guy said is "We don't need to make a big thing about this little misunderstanding do we?" No I said, not a big thing. Just remember me in the future." What a putz...Official reason for the stop, suspicious man with GPS....go figure. It was the longest 30 minuets I have had in a long time. Thank God no one had an itchy trigger finger.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Bergie Bunch

[+SilverHorse]

I've been stopped a dozen times or so and asked what I was up to, and had my ID ran a few times. I just be polite and friendly and explain Geocaching to them.

 

I've had two encounters that stick out in my mind, though.

 

The first was in Wheeling, WV. There was 3 of us looking for a micro that was eluding us quote well. All of a sudden, the whole area lights up red and blue. Not one, not two, but THREE police cruisers pull up and surround us. They get out and form a semi-circle around our little group, and began the questioning. purple_kv gave them the geocaching spiel, and before we knew it, we had our own troop of police officers helping us search!

 

The second was in Youngstown. We had parked our vehicle at the designated parking coordinates and hiked into the woods to locate the cache. It was only a few hundred feet away from parking, so when another vehicle pulled up behind ours, we saw it. rhelt100 went over to see if it was another cacher while Kerbear and I continued the search. Out of nowhere, the entire forest lit up! A cop had driven up alongside the forest and was spotlighting us! At that point we called off the search and went back towards the vehicle, only to find two more police cruisers blocking rhelt's vehicle in. They were out of their vehicles and speaking to rhelt.

 

After 10 minutes of explaining geocaching to them, they wished us luck and off they went.

[+S3N0J]

I recently had one, as i work nights, i had a night off and was out searching for one, which i dnf'd, and as i was walking back to my car, a cop rolled up and turned around. i knew he was there for me as i had some suspicous looks a bit earlier. i walked up to his car and explained what i was doing at 2 in the morning in a parking lot. after about a half hour or so of showing him and explaining the game, he wished me luck and went on his way. i have found that as long as your are polite, respectful, and honest; then most of the time they are just looking out for public safety and just want to make sure you arent up to something else.

 

happy hunting and always remember to be respectful to the man or woman behind the badge.

 

CPD Explorer Jones

[+flask]

 

happy hunting and always remember to be respectful to the man or woman behind the badge.

 

 

i have found that police officers and border guards come in two flavors: people who care about public safety and want to help, and people who like to push you around because they can.

 

come to think of it, a lot of jobs come in both of those flavors. i used to know a middle school spanish teacher who considered it a good day if everyone did what she told them to do. "yes, but did you teach them anything today?" i'd ask. "help them?"

 

we are no longer friends.

[+Nerves]

I found a cache in Texas and then shortly after that, another cacher came along and found it. Only difference with our finds is that when he drove off in his car he came across a badly beaten male lying in the road near the cache site. I had driven off (fortunately!) in another direction. The beaten man later died. The cacher was detained at police headquarters for several hours of questioning and his guns confiscated as evidence.

[+UBC Geograd]

I was visiting this cache South of New Orleans, and parked my car on a dirt road that happened to be a levee. Seeing as though we don't have levees up here in Alberta, I didn't know that this was a faux paux. I found the cache, and was returning to my car when a member of the County Levee Police came roaring up on his quad. He informed me to get my car off the levee immediately. Turns out he was a super nice guy, and hoped to one day visit Canada. He informed me that in Louisiana, they are apparently quite strict about driving on levees, since it could be a terrorist threat.

 

I promised not to drive on any more of his levees, and was on my way.

 

Made me think of the song American Pie, and that it's somewhat outdated:

 

"Drove my Chevy to the levee, but the levee was a terrorist target, so I had to move the car"...