How Do I Log a "Picked Clean" Drill Hole?

[+pgrig]

I'm sorry; I forgot. I have a station (MY4714) which is clearly "on the highest point" of a bald ledge (just as described) and has had its disk and stem picked clean. All that remains is a drill hole and a bit of dirt (plus the depression around what used to be the disk). There are no RMs. A nearby property owner even "testifies" to having seen the disk formerly at this position. Do I log this one "Destroyed"?

 

-Paul

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Without seeing the disk that was in the hole, the best you can do is log what you found at the site and log it as a Not Found. We have seen too many disk close to those that we were looking for to be absolutely sure that an empty hole is for the disk we were hunting.

 

John

[+Black Dog Trackers]

That's a tough call. I didn't see your picture yet, but a disk depression is pretty hard to mistake for those who are experienced in seeing disks mounted in solid rock. There is no certainty in this kind of case. Whether you log found or not found must be based on your good judgement while being there - how obvious is the high point, etc.

 

An interesting case to consider is the high point of Mount Washington where a different disk replaced PF0951, very likely in the same hole. If that replacement disk was taken, and a drill hole remained.....

 

I would not log MY4714 as destroyed, because there is some evidence (although not proof) of a find of KNOBBY 1935 to be seen and judged by a professional.

 

By the way, the datasheet for MY4714 seems to me to be somewhat irregular. The original 1935 designation still stands although the mark was reset in 1979 as "KNOBBY MGS 1935 1979". Unfortunately, there is no _STAMPING data element in the NGS datasheet either.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Black Dog Trackers

[Difficult Run]

I'd log the station as "not found' and describe in detail what remains in the rock face,

(depth and diameter of hole, remnants of concrete used to secure the disk, etc).

 

This station can be recovered by a qualified surveyor, cementing in a new disk and observations checked, as was done in 1979, so I wouldn't consider it destroyed.

 

I'm sure the fine folks at the NGS would appreciate good photos with your recovery report.

~ Mitch ~

[+pgrig]

Thank you all. I logged MY4714 as DNF.

 

Mitch, your logic seems correct, but I am 99.44% sure that the drill hole shown is the former position of the disk. But I assume that the "best" I can log here is DNF. BDT, could I actually say "Found" if I were (I am!) dead sure that this is the former station position? And John, I get it that there can be multiple-hole quandries (I have one right now concerning the old "Boulder West of Salem")--I just don't think this is one of them. By the way, I didn't know NGS wanted images on anything but claims for Destroyed stations. Would it be helpful to send in these pix to NGS? And do they just get emailed to Deb Brown?

 

-Paul

[+jwahl]

I see in your pictures a rather clear outline of cement or something that would indicate to me that a disk was probably there.

 

I have not reviewed the NGS criteria for 'destroyed', but for horizontal control point purposes, as a surveyor I would probably consider using it subject to later problems which would indicate it isn't right.

 

The statement that I see

 

"As a person on Geocaching.com pointed out, even though the disk has clearly been removed, and although their are no local reference marks, a new disk could be set by surveying off distant known points to the (E) and (S)[the view is now obstructed completely between about 270d and 60d, and intermittently by new growth of pine trees in the remaining visible arc]. "

 

In my opinion no one but NGS should engage in remonumenting, or re-establishing a lost control point that was originally established by them. It is difficult enough to determine an obscured point without a lot of additional work done by others.

 

The best thing that a benchmarker can do to perpetuate these marks is good documentation, as you have done, of what you found and where it is, so that others can follow, find, and evaluate.

 

- jlw

 

Thank you all. I logged MY4714 as DNF.

 

Mitch, your logic seems correct, but I am 99.44% sure that the drill hole shown is the former position of the disk. But I assume that the "best" I can log here is DNF. BDT, could I actually say "Found" if I were (I am!) dead sure that this is the former station position? And John, I get it that there can be multiple-hole quandries (I have one right now concerning the old "Boulder West of Salem")--I just don't think this is one of them. By the way, I didn't know NGS wanted images on anything but claims for Destroyed stations. Would it be helpful to send in these pix to NGS? And do they just get emailed to Deb Brown?

 

-Paul